Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[Hexerin]

4 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

that's the point in having such a low cap so it requires a LOT of investment to get that high and isn't as universally good for every warfame ?

The problem is that there's no reliable DR option in Helminth. Null Star would fit that, but because of how it works, it's both unreliable at baseline and also just outright unusable on most frames (you need negative range for it to even pretend to function, and most frames would cease to function with negative range).

Even if Eclipse kept its 75% DR cap, it would at least be usable once it's made into a tap/hold toggle. Even better would be if it was bumped to a 90% DR cap, but started at a reasonable lower value (say, 50% like I've already suggested earlier in the thread), necessitating investment in ability strength to reach that higher cap.

[_Anise_]

7 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

.

well what I figure they are trying to avoid here, is just one helminth that gives you 90% DR which on its own would be good pick but also buffs your guns too being a no brain auto pick! right ?

you can get 75% strength from tao shards (shards you don't even need to make a build) add Molt augmented for another 60% , another 20% from focus I would say you can ramp into 300%+ ability strength without too much effort?

[--lazyboo--]

make it a tap / hold ability

[Issxi]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)AO Heart6770 said:

Also i think they should go ahead and revamp her 2 have a chance to jam weapons or enlarge head hitboxes instead of bombs

I think it deserves to be a one handed cast aswell

One-handed cast is only acceptable if they give them extremely unique animations for it. We don't need boring universal animations that replace unique animations.

 

I like the idea of her trap ability goofing on the enemies with hitboxes and stuff. Have all kinds of random effects happen alongside the glitter-splosion.

[VadinParastin]

Tap/Hold

[boometon3]

tap or hold please :)

[UnZkiPriimE]

Unpopular opinion but I think a fix would be way nicer to keep it unique and keep some sort of identity.

However, I understand it's a cumbersome process and wouldn't be distraught if it were to be changed into a tap/hold, the benefits are reasonable but it would also mean any future potential light/dark themed frame will never happen, right?

[(XBOX)Leekshooter12]

Personally I think three simple changes would fix the ability without tileset lighting needing fixes every 6 months.

1) make it tap/hold and remove all environmental interactions 

2) change the light "charge" mechanic to be triggered by mirages 2 and 4, if she uses those powers the power of eclipse temporarily doubles/triples to match current eclipse at max brightness 

3) slightly reduced stats of Helminth version and make it unable to be "charged" 

Now mirage is far easier to play since you don't need to stand still for max buffs (helps with survival), her eclipse is much nicer to use with less confusing UI and her Helminth ability doesn't completely dominate but also doesn't have a ridiculously complex drawback.

[Retro_West_Key]

after reading all the replies and seeing everyone say “oh just make it a tap hold ability” i think otherwise. here’s my idea: going off of what was said in the original post with the beams of light giving you the buff, i wanted to add onto it. After standing in the light once you leave it, it will provide you with the light buff once you leave it. HOWEVER once you step out you get 10 seconds (scales on duration) to utilize the maximum buff it provides.  after that the buff will start to decay into the dark buff for it. now this week may make it worse HOWEVER in order to make it fair, upon holding the eclipse ability it will spawn those beams of light again allowing for you to refresh the timer for the maximum day buff. this would rid the issue of having inconsistent usage of it, maybe could change the augment to where enemies in the light are blinded for a moment (scales on duration), and would make eclipse a much more interactive duration based ability like other frames have. 

 

As for the decay, i feel as if it should also change how much it ramps down based on duration. HOWEVER it will no matter what exponentially go down untill you get the dark buff or hold the ability to spawn the rays again. 

 

for possible nerfs to it, a duration decrease is always one that’s applicable, just not too heavy of one to where it’s practically unusable. as for the damage buff staying for a set ammount of time, it will no matter what not go lower than 7s. 

 

Reply to this for any questions 

[Retro_West_Key]

3 minutes ago, Retro_West_Key said:

after reading all the replies and seeing everyone say “oh just make it a tap hold ability” i think otherwise. here’s my idea: going off of what was said in the original post with the beams of light giving you the buff, i wanted to add onto it. After standing in the light once you leave it, it will provide you with the light buff once you leave it. HOWEVER once you step out you get 10 seconds (scales on duration) to utilize the maximum buff it provides.  after that the buff will start to decay into the dark buff for it. now this week may make it worse HOWEVER in order to make it fair, upon holding the eclipse ability it will spawn those beams of light again allowing for you to refresh the timer for the maximum day buff. this would rid the issue of having inconsistent usage of it, maybe could change the augment to where enemies in the light are blinded for a moment (scales on duration), and would make eclipse a much more interactive duration based ability like other frames have. 

 

As for the decay, i feel as if it should also change how much it ramps down based on duration. HOWEVER it will no matter what exponentially go down untill you get the dark buff or hold the ability to spawn the rays again. 

 

for possible nerfs to it, a duration decrease is always one that’s applicable, just not too heavy of one to where it’s practically unusable. as for the damage buff staying for a set ammount of time, it will no matter what not go lower than 7s. 

 

Reply to this for any questions 

to slightly change the first paragraph, based on your EMISSIVE color for your warframe, it will change what buff you start out with. so those people who want to use the night buff can start off with it at the cost of the day buff being at around 65% of what it normally is

[(XBOX)Vermilion Draco]

Please make it a toggle, either like wisp's first ability or like Gauss' third ability, which ever is easier for you guys, then you can decrease the helminth buff.

[R4dioS1lence]

Tap or Hold with Helminth rebalance.

Gauging light conditions is too hard (and taking attention away from the game to see the small UI on the top can be detrimental), and will be difficult for people on less powerful hardware even with all the trouble of a rework to make it work with new light conditions. Consistent will be more fair for everyone, and make it more straightforward.

[Traumtulpe]

Here, I'll fix Eclipse for you quick and easy:

Upon casting the ability you start at 100% darkness buff, casting your 4th ability (assuming 100 energy base cost) grants you 100% light buff at 100% efficiency - 25% light and 75% dark at 175% efficiency (in other words +1% light and -1% darkness per energy spent). The buff decays from light towards darkness at a rate based on ability duration, where less duration means faster decay.

[prodi1600]

Hi, I advocate for tap/hold and rebalance.

Just make it non dependent on tileset lightning as it will always change also the techs used, a toggle or new mechanic based on kill count would be welcome.

Edited January 27 by prodi1600

[EdDiesel]

17 hours ago, -CM-OmegaRaptor said:

Here's an Idea: Make Eclipse's buff depend on the % of shields you have.

So at 100% shields you will have the full weapon damage buff. As you take damage you will lose your damage buff until you hit ~40% remaining shields, then switch to Reducing the damage you take. Then full damage reduction buff at 0% shields (when you'll want DR the most). Possible overcharge buff with overshields? Also make it a channeled ability since you can just recast it during it's duration in it's current iteration.

Making it a toggle is the worst idea possible. People will just leave it on light mode and you might as well have just thrown out the DR half.

I believe Pablo mentioned something similar to this during the dev-stream as one of the ideas he has been contemplating. I think this would be an interesting way of going about it. I did offer my own unique suggestion however, this one is pretty good imo.

17 hours ago, EdDiesel said:

Perhaps a tap/hold feature with a slight twist. Using the ability will allow the player to activate both buffs except one buff will be considered primary and the other as secondary. For example tap activation will apply both buffs, the damage bonus will be considered primary and the damage reduction secondary. For hold activation the opposite occurs.  This will allow players to have both buffs active and choose which buff they would like to prioritize. The Primary buff would receive higher bonus over secondary.

e.g

-Tap Activation-

Damage: 100% bonus

Damage Reduction: 25% bonus

The base values would swap based on how the ability is activated (tap/hold).

In addition, If player is in a lit area the damage bonus buff would increase vise versa if standing in non lit area.

What do you guys think?

[SneakyErvin]

Tap/Hold either as a permanent toggle (not a channel) or with the current duration. Nerf Helminth accordingly.

 

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Throwing my 2c in for tap/hold/nerf helminth version.

I get that basically none of Mirage's kit was suitable for Helminth because it's all kind of niche, and doesn't really fit on most other frames, but Eclipse shouldn't have been the Helminth ability to start with.  It being one of the top subsumes isn't even remotely shocking and you guys should have seen that coming.

[Vatelus]

tap/hold please.

[MK-BMo]

The way I see it, fixing it to work as current is by far the worst option. It’s frustrating for the players to use in its current state and will only continue to cause problems that the devs need to spend development time for as the game progresses.

The next option of creating a toggle is definitely the best for development as well as player control. It’s definitely boring and takes away from the character design, but it’s simple and easy to understand, thus removing any barrier for entry especially for newer players. If they go this route and have to nerf the Helminth to compensate, I think it would be appropriate to reduce the base numbers for the Helminth ability, but make sure that the caps remain the same as they are for Mirage (this really only applies for the damage reduction portion). I think a fair number for the base value would be 35% damage reduction and 75-100% weapon damage bonus so to reach the same numbers that Mirage could, you would need substantial ability strength in your build which requires a lot of investment from the player at the cost of other stats that the frame they would put it on would most likely want. This change might even bring squishier warframes back into greater relevancy such as Banshee and Vauban as the potential for 95% damage reduction at max investment would help to offset their low survivability to allow use of their kits where you would want to apply them.

The last option of redesigning Eclipse to function alongside Mirage’s other abilities to maximize her kit on her specifically while giving more player control is my favorite because it’s potentially more interactive and makes sure the ability is still at its strongest while using Mirage. There are a few ways to do this and I couldn’t hope to cover all of them in a response forum post. But I can give a couple suggestions that I think would help keep Mirage her unique self. 1) While Eclipse is active, both values start at zero and can be built up simultaneously based off her actions: Mirage builds weapon damage while dealing direct weapon damage and weapon damage dealt by her clones increases the rate at which she gains this damage. Not dealing weapon damage will begin to decay this value affected by duration and efficiency. Mirage builds damage reduction while dealing ability damage with Sleight of Hand and Prism and by crowd controlling enemies with abilities. This will also decay while not fulfilling the stated requirements. 2) Eclipse has a minimum and maximum value that can be increased by the usage of her other abilities and the context of other actions she takes (like Gauss with his Redline). I have no idea what numbers would be balanced in this case. However, some examples of context actions are like the ones stated in stream where taking damage increases damage reduction while decreasing weapon damage bonus. For Mirage specifically, she can increase the damage bonus or the damage reduction at an increased rate and/or cause it to decay at a reduced rate depending on the lighting she’s in. This allows her to keep the lighting theme without needing to revolve around it and reward you for interacting with it instead of punishing you for not being able to properly utilize it.

 

tl;dr: keeping it as is and fixing the lighting is a bad option. She needs further adjustments. A few examples were given.

[(XBOX)AssacynOwl]

Toggle, adjust helminth. 

[AlucardNoir]

In the long line of "Stevie, Stevie he's our guy, if he can't do it... Pablo can" we have this thread. And to think Steve made all that fuss about the new lighting engine and how proud he was of the work HE and HIS team had done only to be told Mirage was still broken. And what does he do? Does he do his job? No, he goes to Pablo "the Warframe whisperer" and asks him how he'd like to rework one of the most popular frames the game has. Not like there are other frames that are barely used. No sir. Mirage needs a rework. Mirage and the second most popular helminth ability in use.

 

Do your job Steve. Just do your job.

[Meragog30]

Make Prism always deal max lighting dmg.Tap/Hold and make it so when she deals dmg she increases her damage with a current cap and for helminth reduced ramp up and/or max bonus and DR increases the more damage she takes the tankier she gets with max dr untouched for helminth making it more useful for squishy frames.only both can be used simutanusly but need to be cast separetly.

Edited January 27 by Meragog30

[(XBOX)INe Saninus]

Tap/Hold.

 

*BUT*

 

Do not diminish the defense portion.

 

It is only popular (second most popular apparently) due to the damage portion. Even then, only because some YouTuber recommended it.

This is easily deduced by the fact that it doesn't even work half the time.

*Players don't even know what the ability is doing half the time. They just slap it on to be THE BEST!!!

 

We need a cool damage resist buff.

Kill the damage portion. Don't touch the defensive part.

That will fix the usage rate.

[OstrichEnthusiast]

As a Mirage main, all I have ever wanted is for Eclipse to be a tap/hold toggle ability, even if that means adjusting the numbers so the buff isn't as strong. Reworking Eclipse into a different ability would make me sad lol. I'm very excited that you're all looking at this though, definitely has needed a change. Thanks!

[rysiekzklanu71]

Tap hold ability concept seems great