i feel like dante is too good ?

[TudeAbides]

Based on Devshorts #10 I'm backing away from the ledge slightly. If it's a measured, targeted tuning for balance & game health, then, you know, cool. Like it makes total sense to have Precision Intensify respect the OG cap on the 2.

Dante is strong. You have to be at the very end of the game to farm him. If I'm playing a build that is negatively impacted by the influx of so many players using Dante right now (an influx which should be expected as he is the brand new frame), what I would do is switch to playing other builds for the time being. Remember that this window of time is not representative of what it will always be like in Warframe. There are so many other options, I truly don't understand the rigidity and the calls for nerfs from this community, especially after such a widely praised release.

I won't even bother mentioning other strong frames. You know which ones they are. I don't believe "well then [insert name here] should be nerfed too, nyah" is a very sensible argument to make.

I sincerely hope they look at the way mods like Hunter Adrenaline and that one Chroma ability are completely incompatible with Overguard, because that seems to be one of the main complaints. As others have mentioned, a similar issue with OG exists with augmented Frost and Styanax. Just sounds to me like older features not playing nice with a recently introduced one.

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

5 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

If I EVER see the word "Cap" or "Cooldown" on any of his nerfs I swear to THE MAN IN WALL, I will stop being so polite.

They might lower his Overguard cap, which I don't think would be too bad.

But I agree that if they add any cooldowns, or add enemy caps or status caps to him, then he's a dead frame.

[Ventura_Highway]

8 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

If I EVER see the word "Cap" or "Cooldown" on any of his nerfs I swear to THE MAN IN WALL, I will stop being so polite.

Yeah.... don't make me use this capslock key I'm not afraid I'm just cool...

[Kronxito]

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

But I agree that if they add any cooldowns, or add enemy caps or status caps to him, then he's a dead frame.

Would be a Limbo 2.0

Why are wizards always hated so much?

[Arbitrary]

People's reactions to hearing that Dante is going to be reviewed is hilarious.

What was actually said in the devshort:

Quote

[DE]Rebecca: "Is DE gonna nerf him? I'm just going to lay it to you straight, here's what's happening: We are looking at him and we are reviewing some areas we can tweak down (so a little bit of a nerf) in order to make him not so dominant. That's it.

At this point in time stats for "dominance" really aren't the full picture for us [so] it has to be a little bit instinctual [in response to] feedback because everyone is playing Dante. He's the new, hot, shiny thing and all of his abilities are noticed. We are not doing this with a cavalier mindset. We are going to do a very focused review based on feedback and playstyles and that's it.

[...] We are taking it seriously and we are not trying to make the first five days of Dante the best and only good days. We're just reviewing, please have patience with us in this process. Please do not come to this conversation with shock and awe, because [Dante is] awesome and we want to keep him awesome. The goal is not to change that."

What people hear apparently:

Quote

[DE]Rebecca: You thought we wanted you to have fun? We're gonna nerf Dante into the ground. In fact we hate Dante so much, everyone has to pay us $10 once we nerf him..  Our goal is to make sure Dante has the play rate of Caliban actually. Hope you enjoyed your 5 days suckers.

 

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

Thank you Warframe PVE players for being the absolute bottom of the barrel of PVE shooter playerbase- no matter how much whining I see in Helldivers community I can always come here and see that there are irredeemably whinier babies who cannot handle anything more demanding than a casino. 

[Natalie_2850]

9 minutes ago, Arbitrary said:

People's reactions to hearing that Dante is going to be reviewed is hilarious.

What was actually said in the devshort:

What people hear apparently:

 

To be fair, warframe has had a  number of tweaks and nerfs that felt almost like what you said in the 2nd part 😂

So some of us might be bit too cautious haha

[Xenevier]

1 minute ago, Natalie_2850 said:

To be fair, warframe has had a  number of tweaks and nerfs that felt almost like what you said in the 2nd part 😂

So some of us might be bit too cautious haha

DE clarified that they wont do that, DE litterally said they wont ever make him feel weak, they are just tweaking some numbers, everyone is way too scared of the word "nerf" and thinks dante will be unusable trash tier after a small tweak :\

[Natalie_2850]

Just now, Xenevier said:

DE clarified that they wont do that, DE litterally said they wont ever make him feel weak, they are just tweaking some numbers, everyone is way too scared of the word "nerf" and thinks dante will be unusable trash tier after a small tweak :\

The recent nourish nerf, plus what reb said do both make me feel much less worried about the tweaks than I would be if dante had come out as he is now a few years ago with different people at the helm.

[MutoManiac]

59 minutes ago, ArinaTheCutie said:

When is Wukong getting nerfed? He can just sit on the point and let his twin play the game for him, how is that not automated play?

You apparently never used Wukong when he was the greatest most awesome WF that DE ever made. Now he’s just great, but his twin just shuts down or gets bugged in certain missions like the archon hunts. Ah, who am I kidding, he’s still the greatest! People these days hate him for no reason and that’s still the reason he’s my main, so I can piss them off. And I’m also playing Yareli a lot and idiots in game like to tell me she’s trash while I do the most damage. Stop the hate people so I can play other frames, lol.

Edited April 3 by MutoManiac

[(PSN)robotwars7]

this is pretty much how I feel, seeing as this basically always happens when something powerful gets released, and everybody uses it, only for the inevitable changes to come. 5 days is pretty fast though, I guess DE is going for the speedrun. come on DE, we can get Jade nerfed in 3 days or less, especially if you listen to Gauss Prime's theme on loop, that makes everything faster!

I played Dante a little, and honestly, having that much Overguard, dealing insane damage, buffing everybody, scanning everything automatically.. the guy was basically doing it all. he still requires more casts and button presses than other frames, but that's fine. 

ultimately it's best to just wait and see what they do to him before jumping to any conclusions. I can understand newer players who don't know any better being worried, but those of you who have been around for a while should know how these things go by now... 

Edited April 2 by (PSN)robotwars7

[JimothyStevens]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

If that's the case then why are we still exponentially stronger than when the game first started out? If the "nerf crowd" really always got what they wanted, you would expect overall player power to either remain static or decline, yet we've gone from a game where level 30-40 was considered challenging to all but the strongest gear, to one where an item is considered useless if it can't be used to clear enemies at the level cap.

It's almost like DE tend to avoid nerfing things unless they deem it absolutely necessary, with specific criteria that they use to determine what tactics need to be reined in (those being dominance, automation and disruption, with the first being the justification in this case).

 

Avoid nerfs? lol

 

You do realize these people decided to nerf the helminth system after it was announced, but before it came out? All to appease the nerf whiners. They also made universal medallions not useable in conclave, because of one whiner.

Edited April 3 by JimothyStevens

[Xenevier]

8 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

this is pretty much how I feel, seeing as this basically always happens when something powerful gets released, and everybody uses it, only for the inevitable changes to come. 5 days is pretty fast though, I guess DE is going for the speedrun. come on DE, we can get Jade nerfed in 3 days or less, especially if you listen to Gauss Prime's theme on loop, that makes everything faster!

I played Dante a little, and honestly, having that much Overguard, dealing insane damage, buffing everybody, scanning everything automatically.. the guy was basically doing it all. he still requires more casts and button presses than other frames, but that's fine. 

ultimately it's best to just wait and see what they do to him before jumping to any conclusions. I can understand newer players who don't know any better being worried, but those of you who have been around for a while should know how these things go by now... 

people expect DE to shoot dante in the back of his head and take him out back. no that wont happen lol, dante will be fine, minor adjustments are just that. Megan and Rebecca both said that they will keep him in a strong spot but will adjust him a bit. people are just really really fond of fear mongering for no reason

[JimothyStevens]

13 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

people expect DE to shoot dante in the back of his head and take him out back. no that wont happen lol, dante will be fine, minor adjustments are just that. Megan and Rebecca both said that they will keep him in a strong spot but will adjust him a bit. people are just really really fond of fear mongering for no reason

No adjustments are needed though. Time could be better spent making something else that is bad, better.

[Xenevier]

1 minute ago, JimothyStevens said:

No adjustments are needed though. Time could be better spent making something else that is bad, better.

thats your opinion and i respect that, other things do need to be brought to a new standard but that doesnt mean new things should be left out for 2 years in exchange of buffing or nerfing older stuff first. there isnt an order of action, DE does what DE thinks is right and thats the reality of it.

[JimothyStevens]

7 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

thats your opinion and i respect that, other things do need to be brought to a new standard but that doesnt mean new things should be left out for 2 years in exchange of buffing or nerfing older stuff first. there isnt an order of action, DE does what DE thinks is right and thats the reality of it.

Letting them know that we think it's a bad choice is our only recourse so I will continue to inform them of that.

[battle4life115]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Hello! I'm popping my head in here to provide some dev insight related to this conversation. 

As Dante Unbound nears one full week since its launch, the team has been reading and collecting feedback in all areas, including Dante himself. 

To remind us of our nerfing philosophy, we do not nerf things unless it AUTOMATES PLAY, is DISRUPTIVE to a squad, or is DOMINANT in states.

We are currently happy with how favored Dante is and recognize that nerfs typically have a negative connotation. With that in mind, we are reviewing early stats with an open mind to ensure we don't leave room for disruptive or dominant play styles. Any tweaks done to Dante will be to ensure he is still performing strongly, just not disruptive or dominant. 

 

what's the point of playing new and exciting warframes if there just going to get nerfed to the ground barely a week later.
people complain about how he can spam abilites, so can anyone else like garuda, gauss, hydroid, protea. You just have to put time a resources to make them strong. People are just saying hes too strong just because he's new just give it time. they only thing people find DISRUPTIVE is his fast cast speeds, but people don't notice is prob bc of 5 tauforged yellow archon shards. his DOMINANT style comes in with SLASH being the strongest IPS in the game because impact and puncture do nothing worthwhile. Overall if he gets nerfed the majority of players will start to sway from playing dante. What ever you do just DO NOT nerf his damage to containers, the stupid health buff you did to the sarcophagus that have stela in them is unbearable, can't use gauss, or xaku, dante is the best for it now with high cast speed and good damage on his ability to containers.

 

Edited April 3 by battle4life115

[S7ORM]

9 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Hello! I'm popping my head in here to provide some dev insight related to this conversation. 

As Dante Unbound nears one full week since its launch, the team has been reading and collecting feedback in all areas, including Dante himself. 

To remind us of our nerfing philosophy, we do not nerf things unless it AUTOMATES PLAY, is DISRUPTIVE to a squad, or is DOMINANT in states.

We are currently happy with how favored Dante is and recognize that nerfs typically have a negative connotation. With that in mind, we are reviewing early stats with an open mind to ensure we don't leave room for disruptive or dominant play styles. Any tweaks done to Dante will be to ensure he is still performing strongly, just not disruptive or dominant. 

 

Is it possible to have the Helminth subsumable ability Parasitic Armor include Overguard in its calculation? That would provide more synergy with frames like Chroma and Trinity that want health to chip down a little bit. Big armor, can't gain more while active, allows ticks of 1 damage (and allows Combat Discpline to work). It won't sole everything about Dante's current state, but it will certainly be a nice treat for Matchmaking groups with Dante, or Frost/Styanax with augment and other warframes.

[(PSN)rexis12]

The funny thing about Dante's Over guard being an issue for him being too strong... 

Well

Mesmer Skin and it's Augment Exists. 

It provides a guaranteed 5 Second Invul, compared to the damage dependant Overguard, and frankly until that gets changed any attempt at Balance from DE about Dante's Over guard being too strong is going to sound like the Peanuts "Wah Wah Wah" In how meaningless it is. 

[S7ORM]

23 minutes ago, battle4life115 said:

what's the point of playing new and exciting warframes if there just going to get nerfed to the ground barely a week later.

It's called a trial period. They put the new thing out, see how it performs, and adjust it. That's pretty normal.

 

Quote

people complain about how he can spam abilites, so can anyone else like garuda, gauss, hydroid, protea. You just have to put time a resources to make them strong. People are just saying hes too strong just because he's new just give it time. they only thing people find DISRUPTIVE is his fast cast speeds, but people don't notice is prob bc of 5 tauforged yellow archon shards. his DOMINANT style comes in with SLASH being the strongest IPS in the game because impact and puncture do nothing worthwhile. Overall if he gets nerfed the majority of players will start to sway from playing dante. What ever you do just DO NOT nerf his damage to containers, the stupid health buff you did to the sarcophagus that have stela in them is unbearable, can't use gauss, or xaku, dante is the best for it now with high cast speed and good damage on his ability to containers.

I don't see many people complaining about his damage output. Most of the feedback seems to be about his overguard generation or the fact that you don't have an exilus slot on his 1 for tome mods.

[Xenevier]

22 minutes ago, battle4life115 said:

what's the point of playing new and exciting warframes if there just going to get nerfed to the ground barely a week later.
people complain about how he can spam abilites, so can anyone else like garuda, gauss, hydroid, protea. You just have to put time a resources to make them strong. People are just saying hes too strong just because he's new just give it time. they only thing people find DISRUPTIVE is his fast cast speeds, but people don't notice is prob bc of 5 tauforged yellow archon shards. his DOMINANT style comes in with SLASH being the strongest IPS in the game because impact and puncture do nothing worthwhile. Overall if he gets nerfed the majority of players will start to sway from playing dante. What ever you do just DO NOT nerf his damage to containers, the stupid health buff you did to the sarcophagus that have stela in them is unbearable, can't use gauss, or xaku, dante is the best for it now with high cast speed and good damage on his ability to containers.

 

over reacting is common here i see, no one is getting nerfed to the ground dude, stop spreading that notion around, DE officially has said theyre keeping him in a strong spot and only doing minor tweaking, no one said caliban was strong from the start, everyone knew gyre struggled with armored units without armor strip, every could tell styanax was and is good, it doesnt take a year for people to figure stuff out.

i bet on my LIFE if DE did a placebo nerf and didnt even change a thing, people would still drop him, its not about him feeling worse its about getting told he is worse that makes people not like this, his damage to containers wont be nerfed, dont worry, it isnt anything new nor game breaking

[(XBOX)K1jker]

RIP

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 8 horas, NameLessFreak dijo:

You see 3-4 Dante in a squad because he's the new frame not because he's broken. 

If Dante is fine the way he is, then why cry here? If you're right, the Warframe isn't too strong, so what's the point of making topics like this? DE doesn't nerf things that aren't too strong or don't have exploits and with that in mind then Dante won't be nerfed, what are all of you afraid of then?

Edited April 3 by CosoMalvadoNG

[PublikDomain]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

They ask about powercreep, you answered it under a misconception, since what you complain about is progression, not power creep specifically.

Nah, I just agreed to an appeal to definition when I shouldn't have. You should be quite familiar with how I feel about arguing over words and not meaning. So for agreeing to a fallacy, I am truly sorry. 😢

So to be extra clear for you so you don't get your definitions twisted, I was talking about powercreep specifically, the survey in question talked about powercreep specifically, it's Kit that wanted to turn that into an argument about progression. So if you or they don't want to talk about powercreep, talk to someone else.

[Xenevier]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

The funny thing about Dante's Over guard being an issue for him being too strong... 

Well

Mesmer Skin and it's Augment Exists. 

It provides a guaranteed 5 Second Invul, compared to the damage dependant Overguard, and frankly until that gets changed any attempt at Balance from DE about Dante's Over guard being too strong is going to sound like the Peanuts "Wah Wah Wah" In how meaningless it is. 

see that part about needing an augment? styanax and frost need an agument too but dante doesnt ? so revenant and styanax and frost need to sacrifice a mod slot but dante doesnt ... thats logical, and revenant having to use reave on teammates to get it while dante can just be close to them ... yeah yeah