Onos and Ruvox are underwhelming

[Darkbring]

Onos is by far the biggest disappointment. Sure, Ruvox is bad too, but melee incarnons were hit or miss ever since the genesis adapters were introduced.
The biggest problem I have with both of these weapons is that their first few evolutiuons are wasted on stat band aids simply because of how bad the initial stats are. For example, Onos has ridiculously low fire rate, so you pretty much HAVE to pick the evolution that will fix it. The incarnon transformation also takes a very long time, but because you have to spend mod space to fix the fire rate you don't have any space for reload speed, so you again pretty much HAVE to use the evolution that will buff reload speed. And it seems these stats are kinda supposed to be the base stats of the weapon. Why? Because when the only evolution you've unlocked is the one that gives you access to incarnon mode Onos feels like absolute garbage, but it becomes somewhat manageable after buffs from evolution 2 and 3.
Why is that a problem? Because from what I remember the first incarnons were decent as weapons from the very start, and each evolution provided a meaningful and valid choice that would make the weapon stronger. Now evolutions are an attempt to fix an inherently bad weapon, kinda like what the genesis adapters were meant to do, except you made these weapons bad to begin with by design. That's just stupid.
Besides that, another problem that both new weapons share is that they're outclassed by MULTIPLE other weapons in the same weapon slots, meaning that there is no reason to use either of them where there are multiple other weapons that will do the same job way better. 

Please buff Onos incarnon mode with better base fire rate and and buff base attack speed for Ruvox. At least it will make them less of a pain in the ass to use.
 

[CrownOfShadows]

Well I just got it and I hesitate to comment on it before i'm 4-5 forma into it.... however I will say that so far this my build lmao

[EliteVoidHunter]

Totaly agree the incarnon passives are there just to fix the bad design of the weapon not to change your playstyle or the way you play the weapon they give it the incarnon adapter treatment which is disappointing let be honest this weapon doesn't feel incarnon at all only the name

[FelisImpurrator]

My Onos gibs Steel Path level 200 Corrupted Heavy Gunners very quickly (and that's without an arcane, I forgot to even trigger my own Cascadia Overcharge when testing it lmao). It has enough raw to kill things with headshots on the base fire mode with a full build and no +Damage, all of the tier five perks are incredibly strong (although Impaler only counts the railgun shot as a PT hit if you're in Incarnon mode), and the incarnon form absolutely devastates anything in its path. I can't tell if you guys are just building it wrong or something.

The one thing I CAN agree with is that Evolution 2 only has one good (and obvious, and nearly mandatory) choice. But that's more because it already naturally has high projectile speed and basically zero recoil anyway. But this is... literally how all the other 5-tier incarnons work. Every single Evolution 2 tends to be accuracy/recoil, fire rate, and projectile speed (or in Laetum's case ADS movespeed). They should change one of them to ADS movement or something. I guess fire rate could get a bit of a buff at base, but it's already strong.

Same thing for Evo3. Did everyone forget that every Incarnon weapon has dog-ass base reload? Every single one has some kind of reload-based or mag-based perk in Evo3. It's just that Hunter's Rearmament is a bit too weak, and the reload perk here is weaker than Laetum's (also 30% off 2.0 but stacks). On a stronger primary fire with a fat 20 mag, too... 20/2 is not a bad base mag/reload for a gun that has this much base damage and crit. Are you serious?

Besides that, all three T4 perks are great for different uses. Left is for primary use, center is for quick cycling between modes, and right is for incarnon form. All are good at what they do.

All three T5 perks are the same. Left for primary, center for both, and right for incarnon. All of them are stupid powerful. Onos is easily one of the hardest hitting secondaries I've ever tried, lmao. Kill an entire hallway with the charged railgun? Sure. One-charge an acolyte from full? Absolutely. Shred overguard with ridiculous raw damage? You bet. Plus it does good status. And has single target pinpoint precision, and zero-falloff AOE, and does your laundry and cleans your dishes. Seriously, what more do you want? This thing should absolutely not get Devastating Attrition or anything.

 

Ruvox is also great. I can literally just Tennokai heavy slam and kill an entire roomful of enemies instantly on base SP before they get spiked at all, and at 200 sim CHGs just erase them all with Influence or... well, not Influence, whatever actual direct damage build you like.

Every other melee incarnon has the same progression, yet again. Range, speed, or mobility. Obviously Praedos has stupid high attack speed compared to the others, but its damage potential on its own is the lowest and it's better at just letting you move and hit fast. Innodem has horrible base speed and is basically also 'fixed' by the incarnon form being faster. Ruvox getting slower is kind of an issue only until you find out it doesn't matter because the weapon kills things anyway... The berserker node on it is for comfort, basically. You don't NEED +95% attack speed on a weapon that can be made to hit as hard as this, although it would probably be nice if it didn't come with that speed penalty, anyway. Movement speed is pretty powerful too.

Evo3 is just almost identical to Praedos. Same considerations.

Evo4 is a bit of a letdown, although combo count is nice.

Evo5 is... well, whatever it is, it's powerful. Heavy efficiency is probably the least useful, but if you don't run Naramon OR Tennokai it's probably worth considering. 35% status proc vulnerability on spiked enemies? Stupid strong. 5 puncture procs when impaled? Well, it's 25% flat crit on everything that's spiked. If it's not dead from the spikes it will be.

Honestly though. It does more than enough damage. Its gimmick is powerful enough to just nuke things, similar to Innodem's stupid-ass damage on the gimmick, but is at least less of a hassle to use than aimglide melee. Slightly. Throw on a Nira's Anguish or something to kill everything even harder.

 

Did you guys even use the other incarnons? Seriously? I literally checked them all to make sure, and all I'm seeing is "literally the exact same as the other incarnons, same overall stat limitations and near identical early evolutions, still just as OP when properly invested in".

[Arbitrary]

6 hours ago, FelisImpurrator said:

Ruvox is also great. I can literally just Tennokai heavy slam and kill an entire roomful of enemies instantly on base SP before they get spiked at all, and at 200 sim CHGs just erase them all with Influence or... well, not Influence, whatever actual direct damage build you like.

That's not Ruvox doing the work really. You're praising the slam attack changes, not Ruvox. Its slam damage isn't different at all from your random melee, and the Incarnon form punishes you for activating it for no good reason. For comparison, Furax Incarnon has the decency to have built in 90% heavy slam efficiency and similar/better stats.

[Raikh]

I don't quite get why Ruvox is getting penalized for activating its Incarnon form. If it got slower but would instead hit way harder, that could've been interesting but its just slower and thats kinda it. The Range is nice, I love extra Range on my Melees, but for one other Incarnons do not have to pay anything for that and second its base Range is quite pitiful to begin with, so its still not exactly turning into a room blender either.

Heavy Slam gimmick looks cool but if you commit to a Heavy Slam you want stuff dead, not CCed. So its a bit of a whatever thing. It also makes the Incarnon perks a bit disappointing because some of them require enemies to be impaled, but if regular enemies that can be impaled live to be impaled something has already gone wrong. There are other weapons that have Slam gimmicks that should be much more interesting now and also work on regular Slams instead of just Heavy Slams. Conceptually its pretty fun, practically I don't see myself getting much out of Ruvox.

Overall its an okay-ish weapon. Basically any melee with usable Crit and Status can kill things, but as an Incarnon specifically its quite a letdown. Its form over function,

[WhipandT3ar]

This is probably a nitpick but am I the only person that HATES that the beam it fires is barely visible. I was expecting rapid fire shots like shedu but instead we got an invisible microwave laser 

 

EDIT: upon further inspection it's an issue with syandanas. Making a bug report for it 

Edited March 29 by WhipandT3ar

[Hmillz02]

I agree they’re under performing at the same time I’ve been glitched on the 4th stage of Onos Incarnon transformation for two days now. No progress when completing the 20 disruption events. Stopped at 16/20 won’t progress further. Wish I could get a devs assistance on this matter. 
 

Very Respectfully,

Reaper

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

1 hour ago, Hmillz02 said:

I agree they’re under performing at the same time I’ve been glitched on the 4th stage of Onos Incarnon transformation for two days now. No progress when completing the 20 disruption events. Stopped at 16/20 won’t progress further. Wish I could get a devs assistance on this matter. 
 

Very Respectfully,

Reaper

You have to be host to get the completions to register. Devs have said they are going to fix that but it will require a cert build.

[Ruddertail]

10 hours ago, FelisImpurrator said:

My Onos gibs Steel Path level 200 Corrupted Heavy Gunners very quickly (and that's without an arcane, I forgot to even trigger my own Cascadia Overcharge when testing it lmao). It has enough raw to kill things with headshots on the base fire mode with a full build and no +Damage, all of the tier five perks are incredibly strong (although Impaler only counts the railgun shot as a PT hit if you're in Incarnon mode), and the incarnon form absolutely devastates anything in its path. I can't tell if you guys are just building it wrong or something.

I love how you say killing level 200 SP is some kind of feat. You know what a Tenet Arca Plasmor and other good guns one/twoshot? Level 9999 SP.

[-Krism-]

47 minutes ago, Ruddertail said:

I love how you say killing level 200 SP is some kind of feat. You know what a Tenet Arca Plasmor and other good guns one/twoshot? Level 9999 SP.

Is level cap really all you care about?

[Darkbring]

7 hours ago, -Krism- said:

Is level cap really all you care about?

 

You missed all the points it seems

[Darkbring]

10 hours ago, WhipandT3ar said:

This is probably a nitpick but am I the only person that HATES that the beam it fires is barely visible. I was expecting rapid fire shots like shedu but instead we got an invisible microwave laser 

 

EDIT: upon further inspection it's an issue with syandanas. Making a bug report for it 

 

 

Nope, I think most people expected something more akin to Shedu when they first heard of Onos, and instead it's Opticor. It's basically a repeat of what happened with Gorgon Incarnon, but even more disappointing.

Edited March 30 by Darkbring

[0_The_F00l]

The onos is fine in my opinion , it does need to be built in a specific way (fire rate being very important) ,

It's stats page is a nightmare to navigate. WTF is happening there, why did they have to go through all this complicated rubbish, and it doesn't even have a reload stat WTF, 

The first time I saw it I felt "huh , that's a small stat block is that a UI bug?" and after unlocking it's incarnon I was "dude what is happening, is that a UI bug ?" , really the only thing I need from a stat page is understanding of the weapon , what I get is more confusion.

The weapon power itself is pretty good , I have one more forma to go and I could already complete the newest tileset on SP solo without issue. Granted i have used the arcane and the KPS potential between the default and incarnon fire modes feels kinda equal (I actual shift to regular for some scenarios like mechs) 

The other gripe is not limited to the onos itself , it's Arm cannons in general , they tend to block the cross hair on may frames , wish they finally fixed that.

 

The Ruvox on the other hand , feels rather meh. Take it or leave it i guess , it's not ground breaking (despite its special slam effects) , I am also not sure if we have had status vulnerability as a stat in the past so that's interesting atleast , unfortunately , it does not apply on enemies that you really want it for. As those enemies are usually CC immune and so cannot be affected by impale.

I am also curious why they thought reducing the speed on the incarnon form would be a good idea. It just feels worse, and the impact to puncture .... Ok I guess , but why ? 

I think "ok , but why?" Sums up ruvox well enough from performance perspective.

It does look very cool for sure , but I don't think I will be replacing Furax (wraith) on any of my builds with this. As the various gimmicks just don't flow well in my opinion.

[-Krism-]

8 hours ago, Darkbring said:

You missed all the points it seems

Points being:

1. It can totally kill lvl cap like any other Incarnons

2. Even if it didn't, you don't have to judge a weapon on if it can kill said lvl; All you guys care about is damage & forget to simply have fun playing a #*!%ing video game

[Martaskis]

They are underwhelming because a majority of the time there is a bug or a issue preventing the damage for going through. Esp with the Ruvox I am getting red crits and punching things to the ground, it's having a great synergy with my game play. The onos is extremely bugged for me to the point of 0 damage, is it a fun gun? Yes, but you cannot say they're are underwhelming when DE is resolving the bugs.  

[Qorvax]

Top 5 worst Incarnon dissapointments to me, only after Soma and Gammacor....

[GPrime96]

4 hours ago, Martaskis said:

They are underwhelming because a majority of the time there is a bug or a issue preventing the damage for going through. Esp with the Ruvox I am getting red crits and punching things to the ground, it's having a great synergy with my game play. The onos is extremely bugged for me to the point of 0 damage, is it a fun gun? Yes, but you cannot say they're are underwhelming when DE is resolving the bugs.  

Onos do have some weird bugs. Sequential Skullbuster not working for it's Incarnon, Galvanized Shot being multiplicative for it's base form, Non incarnon form bouncing off of Scourge's Bullet Attractor, and maybe another one Wiki posted which is Impaler's Ferocity being additive to mods. 

[Darkbring]

On 2024-03-30 at 10:42 AM, -Krism- said:

Points being:

1. It can totally kill lvl cap like any other Incarnons

2. Even if it didn't, you don't have to judge a weapon on if it can kill said lvl; All you guys care about is damage & forget to simply have fun playing a video game

 

 

Point is the weapon has objectively bad design and isnt fun. Weapon's perfomance is literally a part of it's fun factor. "But it can do level cap" Stug can do level cap too. Onos requires, what, 4-5 forma investment for semi-decent perfomance? With requirements like that the least it could do is to be comparable to some of the worse secondary incarnons, but it cant even do that.

[-Krism-]

On 2024-03-31 at 7:52 AM, Darkbring said:

Point is the weapon has objectively bad design and isnt fun.

Subjectively*

Don't try to pass your dislike for the weapons as objectivity, if you don't like them, own it, don't try to justify it with your so called "objectivity"

[Martaskis]

14 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

Onos do have some weird bugs. Sequential Skullbuster not working for it's Incarnon, Galvanized Shot being multiplicative for it's base form, Non incarnon form bouncing off of Scourge's Bullet Attractor, and maybe another one Wiki posted which is Impaler's Ferocity being additive to mods. 

Correct, so the basis of the assumption of these weapons are based on; "The bugged version", can we just stop dogging on things before they get fixed? They are going to fill bad because they do not work with certain items in the game, or the item glitches out, a miss-fire, DE know(s) this is an issue esp since the evos for the incarnon are not show casing correctly; 
Here is some talking points:

1. EVO V for both trees are extremely lack luster compared to other Incarnon weapons.

2. The 'Ruvox' should be built for crit, but the possibilities are hard to achieve, this is not a weapon someone who is just getting into Incarnon should get period, spending a lot of time piecing the correct mods together is a hassle and should be more streamlined for the 'Ruvox'.

3. The 'Onos' is having a vast majority of the issues coming from bugs, building it is fine as you just build it more crit heavy but with all of the bugs testing of the weapon is seemliness impossible.

If we cannot agree to disagree then we must change our focus to the real issues at hand, and stop arguing amongst ourselves for an issue that clearly needs to be addressed, and that issue is the bugs riddling the weapons from preventing a good perspective of the weapon in the first place. Can you take these weapons against level cap? Absolutely

Personally I think with the Ruvox and Onos, the base versions should be placed with slash damage instead, while I agree the concept of the Ruvox is really cool, impact slows this weapon down massively and to only be replaced with a semi ok stat of puncture replacing the puncture to slash will increase the response of the weapon. Onos again is just very bugged for me, it started to work last night and I was getting red crits with two mods on it which is not how that should work at all, sometimes the weapon would hit my target, sometime it would just fire and not hit the target. 

It is ok to disagree on certain aspects of this game, and it is ok to agree with certain aspects of this game. But at the end of the day it is a video game and if your (perspective) is jaded because some other Incarnon is so much better, that is just a perspective. 

Also Gprime96, I was not trying to direct any of the frustration towards you. You just made a fantastic point and I wanted to reflect on your statement!

[GPrime96]

26 minutes ago, Martaskis said:

Also Gprime96, I was not trying to direct any of the frustration towards you. You just made a fantastic point and I wanted to reflect on your statement!

It’s alright, it’s not uncommon for a incarnon to break at release. Remember how buggy the SP Incarnon Adapters were? 

[PheonixFontaine]

Honestly, I had no issues with the base Onos. I built around fire rate mostly and it felt satisfying.

I will say Reinforced Bond and Tenacious Bond are making most weapons feel better all around.

It's when you Incarnon form your Onos that it suddenly just goes from feeling like a reliable nailgun to having a full minute charge time to shoot a single shot. In a Murmer Survival, I went from doing reliable 5-6k hits at a enjoyable rate to... waiting the full charge time for significantly less overall dps. Sure it was a bigger number when it hit, but shield gating meant that it literally killed nothing.

It feels absolutely terrible.

I could easily get a good Riven and make the base gun my main secondary and feel good about it. That Incarnon form though, absolute trash.

The Incarnon gimmick is just not panning out for every weapon that has it because they kneecap the base form and load power into it with the new designs. In this case though, I think the intended backloading of power really just doesn't take any account to how gameplay actually works.