PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[Kosynth]

Just now, .PapaDocnasty. said:

WHAT? WHY? 50% makes the Augment useless. At that small of a range, Almost any AOE weapon or Glaive can simply kill the enemies with ZERO need for the Augment. Could actually replace it with another grouping ability with that type of nerf. 25-30% would be considered "Balanced"  50% is a RAW UNMITIGATED NERF HAMMER. Please Reconsider.

I wont speak much on Dante, other than to say that As a Khora Main LOS is a HUGELY EXTREMELY INCONSISTANT POS. This Nerf might be better received if LOS wasnt such a crappy tool used as a check to every frame that has it applied to its abilities. 

Styanax Has to use an Augment to Share Overguard just sayin, LOL. Decide if your Going for Balance or Nerf and then make things equal. 

You will get half the range and like it, You will get half the overguard and like it, you will hit half the enemies and like it

Its okay though we buffed the book you can give your allies.

[.PapaDocnasty.]

1 minute ago, Kosynth said:

You will get half the range and like it, You will get half the overguard and like it, you will hit half the enemies and like it

Its okay though we buffed the book you can give your allies.

Pretty Much.

[TheTundraTerror]

I find it laughable that Dante gets nerfed with LoS when Mirage's Explosive Legerdemain exists and lets me steamroll entire missions and rack up thousands of kills in ESO. Not joking, I can easily get 3k kills by the end of Round 4 of the current ESO.

Spoiler

 

[Smiky]

As always. No fun allowed...

DE do you hate that your players have fun in the game?

[Kavarosh]

Im feeling that new Warframe investment is useless. I bought Dante, I like it, then nerf. now I Will wait and farm primes

[JimmyBrowny]

hace 43 minutos, Aesyhr dijo:

Hi there !

Inaros player here. I've been sometimes annoyed lately by all the Dantes running around throwing overguard everywhere and my friends (Which also happen to play Dante ><) told me that a patch adressing this was coming soon. Is it the today patch ? Because I've only seen a reduction in overguard which doesn't solve my hunter's adrenaline problem at all :/

Well, not a problem anymore, if there's nobody playing Dante there are no Dantes giving you overguard

[Raidoser]

Suggestion for Dante balancing :

- Light verse (ability 2) : Only provide Overguard to Dante, healing part changed to heal over 5 sec while also buffing shield recharge delay for others affected entities

- Final verse (ability 4) Tragedy : Back to ignoring LOS but instead Damage falloff has been added after a certain distance.

- Final verse (ability 4) Triumph : Amount to Dante unchanged (from pre nerf) others affected entities will receive 50% of the Overguard amount over a period of 10 seconds. 

 

Rage/hunter Adrenaline/ vex armor should be able to work with Overguard but with a reduced effect (while a better solution is found),

Example : Rage = 40% damage on health converted to energy, 20% damage on Overguard converted to energy.

Edited April 4 by Raidoser

[Kosynth]

Enemies when you load in as dante

Edited April 4 by Kosynth
wrong gif

[Vermillion-Code]

Wait, and you also just removed the last bit of CC that worked on Eximus units such as Breach Surge and Ice Wave Impedance? Are you serious?

You've done absolutely everything in your power to remove CC from the game rendering several warframes completely useless... and the few instances of CC working on Eximus units you go ahead and remove as well?

This is genuinely impressive if it wasn't so insulting. Introduce Incarnon weapons - remove Frosts ability to slow down Eximus units. Good job guys.

[Plaiddragon]

Dante and Nezha nerfs are wayyyy too knee-jerk. Went from good but not op to niche at best

[Binket_]

Huh, a lot of good changes here.
Some are questionable, but overall nice!

From my run of Deep Archimedia? REALLY fun mode!
Please keep up the daunting challenges, it's been a long while since I've had to carefully gauge my fights!

 

... and when are we getting Auto-Melee Toggle?

[TeamPlasmaNowa]

That Dante nerf was so unnecessary. At minimum Tragedy needs to be changed to a soft line of sight if its supposed to be useful at all.

I really hate these kneejerk nerfs to popular NEW Warframes, we didn't have nearly enough time to see if Dante was to good, this feels like the Styanax changes but even worse.

Edit: Same with the Nezha augment, it was really good but not nearly as good as some Youtube thumbnails and titles want you to believe.

Nerfs like this should be discussed more beforehand so a loud minority that sees a good Warframe for the first time doesn't overreact and ruins it for everyone.

Edited April 4 by TeamPlasmaNowa

[EsperSparks]

Ok probably one of the few ppl not complaining about nerfs ( Give alternatives then if you dont like the nerfs guys, just saying MMM BAD ME ANGY isnt gonna do much )

De, if able im still waiting for the ability to donate roller floofs, Prominence Wisp totem decors, and potentially figure props into the dojo.
If atleast, the Prominent wisp totems. Bought a good few from the Gargoyl's cry event, just so i could put em into my dojo, but still unable to.

[wundox]

2 hours ago, Aerikx said:

Dante changes were exactly what I expected. Well done.

Literal team wide immortality was beyond ridiculous. Why folks are so upset over this? I don't know. If you couldn't see why full squads of night infinite Overguard was beyond reason.

Line of Sight. Yeah makes sense.

That all said...

Get to work on neutering Deep Archimedia. Those modifiers and that level challenge doesn't belong in the game. 

You literally JUST nerfed The Circuit into the ground because it was "Too Hard". 

More than half of those modifiers are brutal. Especially since they'll be stacking on top of random Loadout preventing meta builds and compositions. 

I look forward to seeing Deep Archimedia's upcoming nerfs.

hildrin pillage strip 100% armor and shield in one 1.5 sec  cast , and also give more then 1500 overshield 
dante with 100% more strenght have 750 shield from 2 with 60+ energy cost and 5500 at 4(after two 2 casts in a row and doubled energy cost)with close to 2 sec animation and 0.4 deley before each cast and also no dmg benefits , i mean to get 40k overguard wich have no affect to shield gate u need to have 300%+strenght , 5 rotation of )(2+2+4), take no  dmg, energy pool between 600 and 1000k and be afk casting more then 10 sec... balanced btw, 0 SP oportunity now 

 

[Zeow31]

il y a 8 minutes, EsperSparks a dit :

Ok probably one of the few ppl not complaining about nerfs ( Give alternatives then if you dont like the nerfs guys, just saying MMM BAD ME ANGY isnt gonna do much )

De, if able im still waiting for the ability to donate roller floofs, Prominence Wisp totem decors, and potentially figure props into the dojo.
If atleast, the Prominent wisp totems. Bought a good few from the Gargoyl's cry event, just so i could put em into my dojo, but still unable to.

I love that you show up after 12 pages of people offering alternatives and then go "WHY DO YOU JUST COMPLAIN WITHOUT GIVING ALTERNATIVES"

Here is a sweet TL;DR of those offered so far then :

- Don't make Tragedy LOS, just nerf its range around 20%
- Overguard isn't the problem, the way it interacts with damage-reliant build is so make those builds work with overguard
- Fix LOS instead of using it as a cheap nerf bat for nukes that aren't Saryn or Octavia
- Create an augment so that Overguard can be applied only on the Dante instead of disrupting others' play
- Make the 4 a "push/ hold" so you can decide to who overguard applies
- Make light verse give everyone some small overguard (just enough to overguard-gate) and make Triumph apply only to Dante

Those are off the top of my head but hopefully I got most of them.

Edited April 4 by Zeow31

[RyllusPurple]

So is this a hard no on letting us finish Dante's exhibit in the leverian?

[PrimedLaundrySauce]

2 hours ago, Aerikx said:

Dante changes were exactly what I expected. Well done.

Literal team wide immortality was beyond ridiculous. Why folks are so upset over this? I don't know. If you couldn't see why full squads of night infinite Overguard was beyond reason.

Line of Sight. Yeah makes sense.

That all said...

Get to work on neutering Deep Archimedia. Those modifiers and that level challenge doesn't belong in the game. 

You literally JUST nerfed The Circuit into the ground because it was "Too Hard". 

More than half of those modifiers are brutal. Especially since they'll be stacking on top of random Loadout preventing meta builds and compositions. 

I look forward to seeing Deep Archimedia's upcoming nerfs.

If team wide immortality is an issue how come revenant's mesmer shield hasn't been touched? S#&amp;&#036; makes it so you will take damage never in any level content, I have gone entire archon hunts without taking damage from just a friend in game passively playing revenant, and also makes surviving at level cap pretty trivial.

 

Also the deep archimedea modifiers are fine as is, me and a few clan mates blew through normal and elite archimedea in less than an hour with pretty scuffed builds.

[StarkillerHDX]

My opinion is probably a worthless drop in this never-ending bucket, but I'd still like to voice my thoughts, even if they are utterly unnecessary and idiotic, and will never be acknowledged or read. This is my first Forum participation, so apologize if I make any mistakes in etiquette, or even posted this in the wrong place (I'm new to this).

About the balance changes for Dante, they seem quite overkill, outright egregious in some respects to me, not quite the "tweaking" I expected.

The main issue of Dante (as I've heard) was that he was giving players that relied on taking damage a hard time, an anti-synergy, as they've either relied on mods that required to take damage to get energy (Rage, etc.) and Frames that relied on damage to increase their power, mainly Chroma. Fixing that issue seemed to be more important than gutting Dante's kit, which did not even fix this anti-synergy issue of overguard at hand, which Frost and Styanax were already causing.

The overguard nerf is not even my main gripe with his changes, halving his overguard is fair enough, and is not a dealbreaker to me, just a little odd. It is the most understandable change in my eyes. Frankly it will not change anything so long as the Dante player uses Triumph as usual.

It is the damage changes that baffle me immensely.

Increasing Wordwarden's damage from 30% to 50% is fine, and I like it a lot. It makes DPS builds for the Noctua more viable and is a nice support to have now.

Tragedy's Line of Sight change is completely unnecessary, but livable I suppose. If you managed to mark the enemies with slash, you'll likely hit them with Tragedy as well, so long as LoS is not being wonky... [EDIT: Upon further testing, the LoS is much worse than I thought! I wanted to forgive this change, but the LoS check is so, so bad... Tragedy barely works anymore. Please revert this, please.] It is still disappointing to see, since that ability did not cause any disruption to other players. Regular Path was already a cakewalk for other Frames, so Dante is not special at all to warrant that change.

Now, unlike most, I am actually most disappointed with Pageflight. The Paragrimms were so useful by increasing Status Effect damage to enemies affected by them! I have no idea why you've decided to remove the effect entirely, removing this crucial aspect of his ability. It didn't disrupt other players whatsoever, it didn't allow automatic play either, and it didn't dominate other players in the lobby (like Saryn does, and the other obvious Frames). Pageflight was such a nice and unique ability. It was even niche! There are almost no enemies in the game that *need* the additional Status Effect damage, but it was so nice to have. It gave Dante a really nice and relatively obscure niche. Steelpath Voidrigs and Acolytes are the most prominent examples. The Paragrimms allowed Dante to destroy the Voidrigs at a reasonable pace, instead of hitting them with a Ceramic Dagger Incarnon for 30 seconds until they explode.

DE, if you had to revert one change on Dante, I'd plead you to revert the Pageflight nerf! It's so niche but nice, it doesn't disrupt any gameplay for anyone, and doesn't trivialize all of the game as far as I could tell! [EDIT: The LoS change needs to be reversed too, wow!]

Frankly, I am disappointed with the Dante changes. The Triumph and overguard changes are understandable enough, if unexpectedly harsh considering how the Devshort made it sound benign, but the damage nerfs are way too much. I cannot understand how you can look at this and think it is a relatively small balance change.

Personally, I'd propose these changes instead (opinionated):

Either keep Dante's overguard output, or reduce it by 30%, but allies only get half of the amount of overguard, perhaps even halving their respective overguard caps too. Maybe even remove the automatic overguard regeneration on kill. It would not fix the anti-synergy issues, but the current nerfs do not accomplish that either.

Keep the LoS restrictions of Tragedy, if you must [EDIT: No! No! LoS is unacceptable for Tragedy. If you have to nerf Tragedy for some godforsaken reason that I cannot comprehend, lower Tragedy's range by 30% or something.], OR lower the damage output of Dark Verse, maybe 30%.

Return Pageflight as it was before (Please! It didn't hurt anyone!).

Return Wordwarden as it was before, or keep the buff.

That's pretty much it already. Because, I really cannot see how Dante is overpowered if we just take a look at all the other Frames that exist in this game. He doesn't deserve it just because he is a week old.

I suppose that is the end of my one-sided rant. I apologize if I have been too harsh myself, but in a more personal note, Dante has been my favorite frame in a long while now. I've been excited for him since his announcement, had an absolute blast with him without feeling bored (like with Saryn, Octavia, etc.) and I really considered maining him for the foreseeable future. So it's really saddening to see these unnecessary nerfs on him that do not even fix the issues he may have had. So please, please reconsider your changes, and focus on anti-synergy problems that overguard causes instead. If you have concerns about overpoweredness, then I think Dante is not be a priority here at all, considering what else exists in this game. I still believe this is a knee-jerk reaction, as he is new and popular, if flashy.

In the end, I am still grateful for the continued support and updates to this game. (but please return pageflight! [EDIT: And remove LoS! It absolutely ruined his damage like holy crap])

Thanks for reading.

Edited April 4 by StarkillerHDX

[Dark_Horse89]

DE why you are destroying the lighting inside the orbiter? Now is worst than before. Before everything was too dark and now half is too bright and half is too dark. lights are flickering while you move from the navigation room to the arsenal back

[Redrigoth]

i was glad to be done with duviri circuit because i didn't have to deal with the contemptible RNG loadout system and you brought it back? And we can't farm all the points across multiple deep archamedia runs so the only way to get all 37 points rewards no matter how good you play is to get lucky with good frame and weapons? You think I can kill level 500 enemies and necramechs that ignore armor strip and also have extra buffs from the mode with Limbo + Stug + random rifle and melee that aren't modded or forma'd? eh?

If points stacked atleast I can repeat the run until i finish but no. I have to deal with lv500 enemies that take 90% less damage outside of weak spots while they build up damage resistance and have barrier eximus walking around and invincible necramechs walking around while using random junk weapons and not being able to revive if I die or use my operator.

Throw out the rng or make it only roll weapons that have forma and potato equipped so we have a viable loadout.

[DenisJaguar]

5 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

i was glad to be done with duviri circuit because i didn't have to deal with the contemptible RNG loadout system and you brought it back? And we can't farm all the points across multiple deep archamedia runs so the only way to get all 37 points rewards no matter how good you play is to get lucky with good frame and weapons? You think I can kill level 500 enemies and necramechs that ignore armor strip and also have extra buffs from the mode with Limbo + Stug + random rifle and melee that aren't modded or forma'd? eh?

If points stacked atleast I can repeat the run until i finish but no. I have to deal with lv500 enemies that take 90% less damage outside of weak spots while they build up damage resistance and have barrier eximus walking around and invincible necramechs walking around while using random junk weapons and not being able to revive if I die or use my operator.

Throw out the rng or make it only roll weapons that have forma and potato equipped so we have a viable loadout.

That is the reason i love Xaku but only if i am lucky to use him.

Edited April 4 by DenisJaguar

[Flim_]

Overguard nerf, whatever I can live with it. Los tragedy nerf…. Nah that’s wack. Removal of any reason to play Dante. We will all just go back to our easier to play room clear frames. Barely a week and he is gutted imo. I guess they wanted people to stop playing him rather than fix the real issue everyone was complaining about. 

[DarkAce512]

That new gamemode is beyond ridiculous. We can't even play what we want AGAIN, and if we have the AUDACITY of not owning the humongous pile of sh**y choice of loadout the rng gives us, we can't reach the last reward cap which is not even that great. 60% of the weapons in this game can't be used past lvl 200 because they are BAD DESIGNED / TOO OLD, and 20% is BARELY viable when PERFECTLY BUILT. And even if i have the weapons they give me, how the f* do you expect me to build the HARPAK or the ZENITH, or the AEGRIT ? I have fully built like 30 weapons, 20 of them are just playable/enjoyable, and only 10 of them are REALLY "meta" and endgame friendly, and i'm supposed to not use them to do ENDGAME GAMEMODE MISSIONS like that ?? What in the actual f* is this logic ? And i wont even talk about the melee weapons i got, all 3 of them being IMPACT based, HOW THE F* I AM SUPPOSED TO KILL A LVL 250 VOIDRIG WITH AN IMPACT MELEE ?? Especially when there's is only 3 or 4 weapons in the game that are capable of killing those things efficiently (by that i mean killing them in less than 3 whole centuries because they have like 95% Damage reduction for no reason + the INVICIBILITY ability of the necramech itself :)))))

 

I mean i don't care about debuffs, i have been used to it now. But here, the debuffs modifiers are just REALLY annoying. Once again you guys don't know the difference between DIFFICULT and ANNOYING. So you just straight up cluelessly remove and restrict our abilities and possibilities of gameplay. You know what this is called ? FALSE DIFFICULTY. It is NOT difficult. It is ANNOYING and USELESS. The pure definition of UNFUNNY.

 

Using the excuse of "testing your arsenal as a experimented player because extreme high difficulty blah blah blah" is beyond stupid. I AM capable of clearing lvl9999 missions with the weapons and warframe i built, i have spent THOUSANDS of hours to achieve that, so by your logic i am an endgame player (since your endgame just consist in putting more lvl to the trash mobs :clownface:). But with that new gamemode, i cannot even use what i built to clear the endgame that you just THROWED AT US without THINKING if it was a good idea nor playable/ enjoyable or not. I spend all that time to farm (sometimes extremely annoying and brain-rotting) things to perfectionate my gameplay, to build efficiently my frames and weapons just for you guys to DENY me the possibility of playing what i managed to create. You are always pushing the idea of building our own path to greatness and efficiency, to find our own synergies to clear the content you give to us. How is that new gamemode even acceptable then ? Where is my own path ? It is literally the pinnacle of FORCED rng and false difficulty. You literally take our ONLY way to have fun for ZERO reason. At least let us use our own gear, own warframe and weapons, it's the BARE minimum. What is the point of RNG here ? Seriously ?

 

And also, what is that transference modifier debuff ? Seriously ? You guys FORCED US to play that annoying operator for years, you managed to include it into the CORE of our gameplay without our consent, so we were forced to learn to play with it to play efficiently and now YOU JUST DISABLE IT ? WHAT. THE. F*. Have you even thought of it's real impact on our gameplay before adding that modifier ?

 

Seriously, DO YOU GUYS PLAY YOUR OWN GAME BEFORE ADDING GAMEMODES ? Of course not. Everybody says it, but you guys don't want to admit it. You guys could hire some veterans, some beta testers, some new EXPERIMENTED game designers and devs. That game could be so much FUN and enjoyable if you managed to put some effort into it. But you aren't. I'm sure 90% of the feedbacks here will not even be taken into consideration. But why ? Because you don't accept that people can be mad and disappointed, you can't accept that your game is supposed to be balanced with BUFFS and not NERFS. You guys don't even admit that you're NERFING things, it's always "modifications or adjustments".  Because your game is PLAYERS VERSUS ENTITIES and NOT PVP so there is absolutely NOT A SINGLE POINT nerfing things because they do too much damage/are too powerful. You could just think to add a REAL endgame that can be indefinitely improved through time (like raids???) with REAL challenges and squad strategy. For example, you could improve the party limit to 6, 8 or 10 ? Or accentuate the need to make intelligent built team composition ? Or add new gameplay mechanics that does not kill the spirit of the game ? And if you guys don't know how to do it, ASK THE PLAYERBASE ! They are plenty of player who KNOW how your game truly works and could know how it could be improved. Even for free. We know that you are not a triple A studio, money don't grow on trees. Just think about beta-testers that give you feedback before releasing new content, it could've prevented the sh*tstorm that is happening right now and happens each time a new update is released. We, as experimented player, (and i certainly don't talk about players who spend most of their time farming hydron or decorating their dojo) truly KNOW how your game works since we are literally experimenting it every day in every way possible. We know what is FUN and what is NOT FUN.

 

For exemple, forced RNG based gear to do lvl 500 to lvl 9000 missions = NOT FUN

 

Netracells (if only the area to kill mobs could be like 2x wider tho) which allows us to actually think about what we want to play to clear the mission efficiently = ALMOST FUN -> keep searching in that way maybe there's something interesting to find. 

 

We are plenty of player here to BEG you guys to listen to us. It is for a REASON. So when you simply ignore us again and again and keep adding bad designed new gamemodes that contain the exact same mistakes that we keep pointing out to you, understand that we are getting mad and disappointed each time. Our complaining is legitimate because we want to love this game but we can't. Because of the frustration.

 

But honestly, i'm not even mad anymore, i'm just beyond disappointed, because once again you guys just are proving us each time that you don't understand how your own game works. How is that acceptable, honestly ? Are you guys even CAPABLE of doing this new gamemode by yourselves before cluelessly throwing it at our faces? Seriously ? Answer me. Have you guys built 90% of all the weapons and warframe CORRECTLY and tried your gamemode before adding it ? Have you guys even tried the circuit btw ? Do you guys understand how much annoying it is for us to be forced to play random stuff, with not a single glimpse of synergy allowed, praying each time we could have at least ONE useable/descent weapon and ONE warframe with enough survivability ? Do you guys understand how much it is a pain in the A** to be forced to WALK on energy orbs because we don't have pets because attracting drops into you still haven't been reworked to be PASSIVELY implemented forever on our warframes ? To be forced to use melee because there is not enough ammo drops to clear the stages of that gamemode (like AOE weapons that you nerfed for no reason :clownface:) ? Do you guys remember that it is a farm-based game ?

 

That's not even the half of the problems i wanted to point out but i'm tired, honestly. What is the point? I'm sure you will not even read what i typed. That game could be so much greater but it keeps getting frustrating and disappointing.

 

It's with a huge pain in my heart, that i must say that this game is a humongous pile of wasted potential. (And i'm only talking about the gameplay, because besides that, story, artistic direction, the concepts, the designs, colors, graphics, most of the characters... All of that, i have nothing to complain about. Because that's what made me stick to the game in the first place.)

 

So if you want your playerbase to stay for what the game really is and not what it should be but will never be, please, make some effort, and listen to us. And a genuine listening. Please.

Edited April 4 by DarkAce512

[Sir-Lorkhan]

il y a une heure, [DE]Megan a dit :

Quoting myself to provide additional updates:

We see that Dante's Tragedy LoS does not hit ragdolls and has issues hitting enemies in your general sight (as noted in this thread.)

We're testing a change to Dante's LoS that both effectively hits ragdolls and does the increased number of checks per enemy to improve the reliability of marginal hits.

Just remove th LOS on his 4! He already has it on his 3. You just made a great frame utter trash!

I'm fine with the overguard changes. But Tragedy??!!

 

Go nerf Saryn's spore then! Add a LOS to them to!

[Redrigoth]

1 minute ago, DenisJaguar said:

That is the reason i love Xaku.

You have 3 frame choices from the image of the UI. You ain't getting your xaku. Enjoy squishy frame in a mode where you can't revive while trying to kill things with Stug and Pangolin