I genuinely cannot understand Deep Archimedia sympathizers

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

5 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

How can my time be wasted while I'm having fun.

- You're not getting any rewards past the 1st run. Not until the next weekly reset;

- All of the time and effort you've put into modding and messing around with your build is gone, the moment things reset. You have to start anew.

That's literally the definition of a wasted time.

----------------------------------------------------

But ok. Ok. Let's assume you and a few select people enjoy wasting your time like that. Ok ok.

Hypothetical scenario now: Would you be against moving all of the DA/EDA rewards (namely archon shards and legendary arcanes) to a different part of the game? Another mode/mission/etc? Entirely removing said rewards from DA/EDA, so people don't feel like those rewards are "locked" behind this mode.

That way you still get to play around with this randomizer+modifiers game-mode yourself, toy around with your builds at your leisure, if rewards aren't important to you. And let other folks - who don't enjoy any of that - still get the same rewards from a different mode entirely?

Would you be against this?

[Drachnyn]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb _Kit_Kat_Cat_:

- You're not getting any rewards past the 1st run. Not until the next weekly reset;

- All of the time and effort you've put into modding and messing around with your build is gone, the moment things reset. You have to start anew.

That's literally the definition of a wasted time.

----------------------------------------------------

But ok. Ok. Let's assume you and a few select people enjoy wasting your time like that. Ok ok.

Hypothetical scenario now: Would you be against moving all of the DA/EDA rewards (namely archon shards and legendary arcanes) to a different part of the game? Another mode/mission/etc? Entirely removing said rewards from DA/EDA, so people don't feel like those rewards are "locked" behind this mode.

That way you still get to play around with this randomizer+modifiers game-mode yourself, toy around with your builds at your leisure, if rewards aren't important to you. And let other folks - who don't enjoy any of that - still get the same rewards from a different mode entirely?

Would you be against this?

Predictably you post this loaded question. This would have bite if we hadnt spent the last page talking about why I am already doing this. We started this entire conversation with you explaining how you can already get the rewards without engaging with the personal parameters. Your problem is fixed already.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

Your problem is fixed already.

It's not. All of these are work-arounds this anti-fun, anti-Warframe mechanic that should not become a trend in the future content.

 

So please. Answer the question:

11 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Would you be against moving all of the DA/EDA rewards (namely archon shards and legendary arcanes) to a different part of the game? Another mode/mission/etc? Entirely removing said rewards from DA/EDA, so people don't feel like those rewards are "locked" behind this mode.

That way you still get to play around with this randomizer+modifiers game-mode yourself, toy around with your builds at your leisure, if rewards aren't important to you. And let other folks - who don't enjoy any of that - still get the same rewards from a different mode entirely?

Would you be against this?

If you're doing this "just for fun" and not for the rewards, would you be against moving all the rewards elsewhere? With the only "reward" from this mode being your "fun" from it.

Would you still play it?

[Drachnyn]

vor 1 Minute schrieb _Kit_Kat_Cat_:

It's not. All of these are work-arounds this anti-fun, anti-Warframe mechanic that should not become a trend in the future content.

 

So please. Answer the question:

If you're doing this "just for fun" and not for the rewards, would you be against moving all the rewards elsewhere? With the only "reward" from this mode being your "fun" from it.

Would you still play it?

 

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Drachnyn:

This would have bite if we hadnt spent the last page talking about why I am already doing this.

 

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

@Drachnyn, here you go, specially for you and your like-minded individuals.

[Lord_Drod]

I decided not to derail your thread, and just add to this one that's already derailed Kat:

It has been fun playing this mode trying different fodder against the rogue voidrig eximus units in survival.  I have spent a bunch of time just optimizing things like a dark sword after I've already completed the mode.  It's fun yeah.  Those things don't exist in simulacrum, so I'll be more prepared if I have no gear, no operator, or simply want to engage more with my fodder restrictions and have them output more in the mission.  I know I'm not alone in this aspect.  Do I want rewards?  Of course, but I don't have to receive rewards for every minute of play.

I didn't want the RNG initially, but it has been fun experimenting with things as a result of being restricted by RNG.  Also, just because people are using gearwheel, companion, necramech that doesn't mean they are going around bad RNG, but just additional tools to help.  The mech is kinda slow getting around compared to your frame, so having to stay in the mech 100% of the time would be more of a challenge than a work around and its easily oneshot in assassinate or by even another voidrig.  On call does not last forever.  Other specters just aid you, not complete the mission for you.  You still have to deal with the mission parameters.

I don't think very many people are doing 2 by 2 tradeoffs, but if they are good for them.  I'm sure there's some people that do it again in pubs, just for the purpose of helping others get through, because its an enjoyable mode.  The challenge of helping unprepared people get through a mission like that and help them to the rewards is your reward.  There's no other mode that compares to it as far as the challenge it brings.  Solo is different since the enemy HP is lower, so if you wanted to test things for groups, you'd have to run it again in groups.

I just want you to be aware of other people that do enjoy the challenge DE presents and minmaxing their fodder, swapping mods around to beat a challenge.  Of course I won't use the builds anywhere else.  I also, change most of my builds around for every other mission, swapping mods around since I usually farm certain things repetitively for a bit, I like to optimize for whatever I'm doing, like running loot mods in sanctum, running avenger in netracells, faction mod swapping, etc.  Health tanking is also not really needed outside of these missions either, so I'm not going to overgear a bunch of survival mods to crack relics.

Edited April 25 by Lord_Drod

[vixenpixel]

Elite Archimedea to me is the pinnacle of warframe gameplay. From MR 1 we have been collecting frames and weapons and honing our ability to tackle the game in a variety of ways and now we are being tested. Wipe your noses kids, strap in and get gaming.

[Xsoskeleton]

I think you miss the part where EDA is an optional alternative of 2 weekly netracell attempts that provides higher drop rate for legendary melee arcane and tauforged shard in exchange for the horrendous difficulty. And barely offering unique drops aside from the Vosfor.

They already buffed Netracell drop chances so if EDA is absolutely not doable for me (luckily it havent been the case so far) i just wouldn't activate it for the week and would go for 5 normal netracell run instead. Same reward list, just more concentrated drop chances for the better ones.

Edited April 30 by Xsoskeleton
italic bolded my main point

[GPrime96]

On 2024-04-30 at 6:19 PM, Xsoskeleton said:

Same reward list, just more concentrated drop chances for the better ones.

Also faster clears for the same rewards.

[ZskyGuardian360]

Warframe has not had genuine difficulty in a long time and it's gotten to the point where almost any new "challenging" activity has devolved into RNG and ridiculously high levels (to the point where player Armour, an entire stat, no longer matters).

They're running away from the actual problem, which is the way stats scale with level and that having anything less than Death Nuke 5000 is pointless.

Different people have different opinions on how the game should handle difficulty, but in my opinion the player should just have to be careful about their movement, even at lower levels. Since Warframe is a movement shooter, I think it would be fun if the player had to do some kind of "dance" around different enemy projectiles like in the Doom games.

[GPrime96]

On 2024-04-06 at 10:07 PM, ChaoticOrderly said:

The concept of difficulty in Warframe has now been warped to owning everything in the game, understanding how it all works, and having functional build for every single item in the game.

This is horrendous and not feasible.

I really cannot grasp the ideology of people who say this game mode is fine despite its very noticeable flaws so I must go over them to hear any potential counterpoints and please really think them through instead of just saying Skill Issue or Git Gud, you're not actually giving real advice and aren't worth talking to.

1: RNG. This is not difficulty. This is an artificial limitation that only serves to pretend that it is. It's possible to roll things you do not own or even have builds for (reminder, endgame should not be owning everything). Duviri, while being RNG, has decrees to back up lackluster frames/weapons and weapons even have loaner builds (still no arcanes tho) and you can even reset choices by doing experience solo, do a fishing minigame (for bile mats), collect the decree and leave.

2: Modifiers: This is the only real difficulty part but its has been exacerbated by RNG because not everything works in the game effectively and even then, have people seen all the modifiers??? There are some REAL bad ones but since we no longer have flexibility (except for people who have EA unlocked and earned the 37 RP reward to allow a singular flex slot), it's just even more artificial difficulty.

3: Gear: News Flash, not every frame or weapon is serviceable. Certain frames are better at certain mission types. Certain Weapons deal with certain mechanics more effectively. If you managed to build it that way congrats??? But not everyone has the same playstyle, so forcing people to mod and play more defensively, slowly, or play a frame they do not enjoy is never a good idea. The hugest saving grace is the you can use the Gear Wheel in this content so you can summon on call and Archgun (how is this the most consistent option) and you can also summon Necramech in the tileset itself (again, why is this the most consistent option) but as soon as that Gear Wheel Ban modifier comes up...

4: Rewards: 15 RP gives you 3x Entrati Lanthorns and 37 RP gives you 50 VOSPHOR (1/4 of an arcane pack), absolutely despicable considering the is the endgame but that's not the worst part. Melee arcane adapters are still in EVERY chest except the legendary one which still has the Legendary Arcanes in it (ima be real, the legendary melees are too niche to be considered an endgame reward) but the Melee adapters stick out because they're buyable with plat and standing (50k standing is still wild considering Amp adapters are only 30k but that's another thing entirely)

5: Definition of difficulty in Warframe: This one sticks out especially because this content is called endgame. Endgame should be defined by having the player push its arsenal to it's limit (see #3 for why that isn't the case sometimes), having the squad coordinated meaningfully, having mechanics that put you on your toes and require more attention than normal, but also having the freedom to choose what tools you want. Yes, this sounds like raids in literally any other MMO because that's how it should be. 60 eyes can and should be considered the hardest content in the game because the Loadout really matters and you have complete freedom to do so while also having the above traits.

All in All, the gist is that I REALLY HATE lack of choice AND owning everything being a trait of endgame when a good portion of the game hasn't caught up to general usability. It could realistically work if every single frame and weapon just worked with a build you put a decent bit of effort into, but this is a numbers game and not everything has the numbers.

(P.S. Revenant is a whole other can of worms that DE themselves should address, but really isn't anyone's problem. So is OverGuard.)

This has all of what i feel about the gamemode, basically have to play the gamemode the way it’s intended to make it feel the way it is instead of our way which would only make it another Sortie (normal mode can still be that way depending on the rotation) and of course when we play it like a Sortie, the rewards are even worse in a very questionable way. Endgame is what you just said in the post and Deep Archimedea only tried to be that way.

[Spyke2009]

On 2024-05-01 at 12:19 AM, Xsoskeleton said:

I think you miss the part where EDA is an optional alternative of 2 weekly netracell attempts that provides higher drop rate for legendary melee arcane and tauforged shard in exchange for the horrendous difficulty. And barely offering unique drops aside from the Vosfor.

They already buffed Netracell drop chances so if EDA is absolutely not doable for me (luckily it havent been the case so far) i just wouldn't activate it for the week and would go for 5 normal netracell run instead. Same reward list, just more concentrated drop chances for the better ones.

Isn't EVERY piece of content in a video game optional, there's nobody holding a gun to our heads telling us to warframe faster, at least I hope not. Do you need help friend, blink twice to signal maybe? 🙄

"This content SUCKS"

"Well... it's optional"

Nobody said it was mandatory, they're saying it SUCKS. Because it SUCKS... and people are working around the primary aspect of it, which people are saying is directly WHY, that it SUCKS. Negating the whole intended POINT of the so called "challenge" aspect of the system. 

Good point on the netracel drop table aspect though, perhaps that's ANOTHER aspect which should be addressed if that's correct.