PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6

[captn_Pat]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

“not touching damage” with Dante

You do realize that giving tragedy line of sight ontop of his already los dependant 3 that the realistic amount of mobs you can hit with it is severly diminished right? In the simulacrum you can hit all mobs yes, but when in a regular mission with stairs, slopes all kinds of obstacles regular weapons do a better job than his damage spell, that requires setup and energy for imho too little effect. Please reconsider and hear the copious amounts of people that just dont want line of sight on his 4 at all. Reduce the radius a bit if you must (with a bit i dont mean 50% like on nezha ffs)

[This_Guy_Steve]

Tell me where did you guys get the information on how did DE get the nerf in mind in just a week prior to the nerf

 

[L0rd_Nightmare]

Personally, I think the Dante LoS changes are ok (and aren't too limiting), although, if it was up to me, I would change the Tragedy 5m "automatic hit/no LoS checks" radius up to 10m (since with all negative range mods (max rank narrow minded = 34% range) on Dante, the range of tragedy would be 10.5m, so having auto-hit in 10m wouldn't break anything in that regard); This would allow for some minor 'nuke through doors' stuff but shouldn't break anything too terribly, and would feel a little better in gameplay wise, and since anything beyond 10m still gets the new LoS checks it shouldn't allow instant map/chunk clearing like "certain people" were complaining about.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Dante's LoS checks on tragedy being removed and the max range being reduced, but not so much as it makes the ability useless, though. (perhaps an augment could do this?)

Edited April 11 by L0rd_Nightmare

[StrawberrySparrow]

People really need to get over the Dante thing. I get being used to the way things were, but this was clearly the intention from the beginning. Also, you guys should actually try out Dante again before repeating the same points over and over

[FaraTenno]

4 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

People really need to get over the Dante thing. I get being used to the way things were, but this was clearly the intention from the beginning. Also, you guys should actually try out Dante again before repeating the same points over and over

Throw the exact same LoS requirement on Saryn's Spores and Miasma and we'll see if your opinion stays the same.
Both abilities are intended to synergize with each other. This change would break that synergy by not allowing Miasma to hit infected enemies, AKA the whole point of the ability.
Doesn't sound very fun to set up and use anymore, does it?

[crazywolfpusher]

5 minutes ago, FaraTenno said:

Throw the exact same LoS requirement on Saryn's Spores and Miasma and we'll see if your opinion stays the same.
Both abilities are intended to synergize with each other. This change would break that synergy by not allowing Miasma to hit infected enemies, AKA the whole point of the ability.
Doesn't sound very fun

Ok, but give Saryn Overguard and Overguard regeneration on her Molt. After all, the whole point of Molt is keep Saryn alive and synergize with Spores.

[FaraTenno]

1 minute ago, crazywolfpusher said:

Ok, but give Saryn Overguard and Overguard regeneration on her Molt. After all, the whole point of Molt is keep Saryn alive and synergize with Spores.

Honestly I've never had a problem with Dante's Overguard nerfs, I understand the mindset behind them and I see the problem behind being able to cast your entire squad under a massive shield that disrupts their build. I've never fought against that.

Unironically though, yes. I feel Saryn's Molt could use this in the form of an augment, if Overguard is to become a standard mechanic going forward.
I know this was probably intended to be a "gotcha" response, but my argument is for balance across the board. I feel having an augment for Saryn that increases her survivability when she casts Molt, giving it another layer of utility, would actually be a great idea. Would require sacrifice of a mod slot, and wouldn't disrupt the gameplay of her allies such as Dante's Light Verse and Triumph.

Let's go another layer further and change Mesa's Shatter Shield from Damage Reduction to Overguard, if you truly want. Same general utility (survivability), different condition.

The stance still stands that Dante is not what's presenting the problem with Overguard; it is the mechanics of Overguard itself.

[AlabasterKing]

Was excited to try Rage on Rhino in tandem with Parasitic Armor with the new Overguard changes. It doesn't seem to work tho. Disappointing.

[Skoomaseller]

hoping the LoS changes are actually good this time around.

[Darkumineru]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Now, Rage and Hunter Adrenaline can convert the Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive. 

oh, so this will still break builds that relied on rage its just 2 frames that got it not say oberon or equinox or grendal or even just niche builds like my khora... well guess i just become a gun frame without ability's when he is just there i guess... dont really see this has a fix when it only helps 2 of the many frames that use rage 

[OnestarMike]

36 minutes ago, L0rd_Nightmare said:

Personally, I think the Dante LoS changes are ok (and aren't too limiting), although, if it was up to me, I would change the Tragedy 5m "automatic hit/no LoS checks" radius up to 10m (since with all negative range mods (max rank narrow minded = 34% range) on Dante, the range of tragedy would be 10.5m, so having auto-hit in 10m wouldn't break anything in that regard); This would allow for some minor 'nuke through doors' stuff but shouldn't break anything too terribly, and would feel a little better in gameplay wise, and since anything beyond 10m still gets the new LoS checks it shouldn't allow instant map/chunk clearing like "certain people" were complaining about.

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to Dante's LoS checks on tragedy being removed and the max range being reduced, but not so much as it makes the ability useless, though. (perhaps an augment could do this?)

What exactly is the issue with Dante's Tragedy having no LoS? Because from where most of us stand who have played this warframe. It's is limiting to the point where it not fun to play the warframe. So it would be nice to know why he needs the nerf.

[Smeryl]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb [DE]Megan:

Rage and Hunter Adrenaline 

Previously, Overguard granted by allies could prevent you from gaining Energy from these Mods (since it blocked damage dealt to Health). So, in an effort to create a more co-op friendly experience between the two, we’ve made the following change:  

Now, Rage and Hunter Adrenaline can convert the Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive. 

I'm not a fan of this change because it's very inconsistent if it doesn't work the same for all frames. When I play a life tank with rage it doesn't make much difference whether I play Inaros or another frame with a bit of shields.

I would be in favor of the following changes:
A: Rage doesn't work for any frame through Overguard (Overguard is very powerful and less energy should be the price for immortality. You also save energy because you don't have to use defensive skills)

or B: Rage works for all frames with Overguard even if they have shields or have Overguard cast on themselves. However, Rage has less efficiency on Overguard. e.g. Rage only 5%, and HAdrenaline 10%

[Museigen]

Yeah, just take LoS off of Tragedy completely. The new dante tragedy rewards a really tiresome playstyle of instant explosions, and jump and rover to explode, repeatedly.
Release Dante was more dynamic and interesting to play because it offered tactical options, also he felt better in general to play with.
Dante now is tiresome and repetitive compared to release Dante.

Remove the LoS and let the data come. The nerf was too hasty.
If the data say that the range is too big, just nerf the range a little. The problem with line of sight is not a problem of balance exactly, it's a problem of function and gameplay. The Dante with so much LoS checks is a worse character to play, than how he was on release.

Edited April 11 by Museigen

[StrawberrySparrow]

45 minutes ago, FaraTenno said:

Throw the exact same LoS requirement on Saryn's Spores and Miasma and we'll see if your opinion stays the same.
Both abilities are intended to synergize with each other. This change would break that synergy by not allowing Miasma to hit infected enemies, AKA the whole point of the ability.
Doesn't sound very fun to set up and use anymore, does it?

I would absolutely adore a Saryn nerf. Nothing sucks the fun out of a game more than somebody deleting enemies so fast I don't even get to shoot anything.

I'm firmly in the "kill nuke frames" mindset. I miss CC

[Sylonus]

44 minutes ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

I would absolutely adore a Saryn nerf. Nothing sucks the fun out of a game more than somebody deleting enemies so fast I don't even get to shoot anything.

I'm firmly in the "kill nuke frames" mindset. I miss CC

I miss CC too but, I don't want to kill anything... why not just let us all have our fun in our power fantasy game and the like 3 people and the developers who want darksoulsframe go play another game :(

edit: I could be wrong, but, I strongly feel like the overwhelming majority of players prefer the feeling of "I'm overpowered and it's fun" feeling in this game, if we perhaps got some general consensus on this via polls or something like that, and that's not the case, that would shut me, and a lot of us up, frankly. But if that is the case...then why not let us have our fun.

Edited April 11 by Sylonus

[[DE]Momaw]

2 hours ago, LysanderasD said:

The reply I received on that thread, while well-meaning, did not seem to actually parse what the issue at hand was. For clarity

I must insist that we know about the issue you are describing. In the game's code, there is a line that checks how much overguard your pet is allowed to have, and in that, it checks for upgrades that add overguard capacity. If you don't have Pack Leader at all, then the game evaluates your pet's maximum overguard to be zero because you don't have any upgrades to capacity. This was a harmless oversight when it was written, before there was any other way to apply overguard to your companion. Now it's a bug affecting gameplay and we will fix it :) It's on our Known Issues thread as a change that requires code, so it has to be part of the next update that goes through platform cert.

[Nero.DMC]

1 hour ago, StrawberrySparrow said:

People really need to get over the Dante thing. I get being used to the way things were, but this was clearly the intention from the beginning. Also, you guys should actually try out Dante again before repeating the same points over and over

i have played dante for a fair amount of time every day, LoS is still S#&$ for no reason whatsoever, nobody have been able to give me a solid reason, if the ability is too powerful (wich is not but lets assume its too powerful for the sake of discussion) then they SHOULD BALANCE IT, LoS is extremely unreliable way to balance, it makes your settings change the power of the ability, it makes the way your camera is pointing affect the ability, it feels like S#&$ in enclosed spaces AND it does nothing to reduce its power when in a open area...

So no thank you i wont get over the removal of QoL without reason, and i will not get over the sorry state they deployed those changes after lying to us telling us they were not going to rush things.

[Kenshikon]

7 hours ago, GStarPrime said:

Damn, DE is full of stubborn people, instead of just reverting the nerfs they decided to take it to the end, like some karen unable to admit his errors 

It genuinely feels like all of the previous nerfs they fixed were just cover ups to lessen the blow from the actual nerf which was the LoS requirement

[AeliosZero]

Thanks for this update! I appreciate the buffs to Dante and the LOS fixes! 

I really hope we can get Railjack song Somachords at some point since it has some beautiful songs that we can't play in our orbiter!
I really appreciate the addition of the Deadlock Protocol somachords added to Phobos a few updates ago and hope to see more. 

[SomeLad]

At least Nezha's augment is better now. Dante's stubbornly not getting his 4 reverted, and Titron's buff sure exists. Other LOS additions are nice I suppose.
Notice how there's nothing about CC changes. Guess that's staying. 6 abilities in my arsenal got crushed. Good going DE. Let me throw in some bold text again, maybe that'll do something.
REVERT DANTE'S 4 AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE STUPID CC CHANGES. ALSO C'MON WHAT DID YOU DO TO TITRON.

Edited April 11 by SomeLad

[crackinq]

Some weird bug happened to me today while I was in a SP Circuit run. The host ended up leaving (giving me a host migration screen) and once I was back into the game my incarnon weapons wouldn't activate. I tried falling off the map, going down and reviving, using the keyboard keybind, and even waited until the next stage to see if they would activate. Sadly they didnt and I was stuck using the base version of my incarnon weapons. Luckily some of the decrees I got helped boost the damage I was missing out on, but if I was able to activate my incarnon weapons things wouldve went alot smoother & faster.

[NobleBanquo]

Is it possible to have Merulina use Sea Snares while you are moving around when using the Loyal Merulina augment? I've noticed that if you get to far from Merulina that it will completely stop using Sea Snares and move to you. It seems it never uses Sea Snares if you are moving around the map a lot and to me that kinda defeats the point of building for efficiency for more snares. Anyways it would be nice if it would use the ability while its moving with you so you can get some more use out of it.

Maybe with the augment Merulina would practically become a sentinel? Something like that would be great.

Edited April 11 by NobleBanquo

[DeZaruu]

Thank you for going back and looking at LoS and Overguard in general, DE.

I personally think Dante is great as is (with the upcoming fixes included), and like you discussed on the Devshorts; if you touch range people will be upset, if you touch LoS people will be upset.

People get upset when content is too easy, yet upset when you try to keep things somewhat moderate (AoE changes, damage attenuation, etc).

I'm aware this comment will get a lot of hate, but you deserve to hear from people who's not just overly aggressive.

[LysanderasD]

1 hour ago, [DE]Momaw said:

I must insist that we know about the issue you are describing. ... Now it's a bug affecting gameplay and we will fix it :) It's on our Known Issues thread as a change that requires code, so it has to be part of the next update that goes through platform cert.

 

I missed this being added to the known issues thread; I apologize. Thank you for the update, and I'll stop nagging about it now.

[-4-lexatrop]

Thanks for the nerfs , keep doung what you doing and dont forget to make droplist om AD even worse , ty.