Oh, hi, Mirror Defense!

[N64Gamefreak]

If you're looking for a game mode that will encourage you to hate the game and hate DE, this is for you.

[PR1D3]

12 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

It does not make anything harder. It makes the game not fun to play, because we are forced to use gear that we do not want to use. And perhaps there is a reason for it? Like, you know, obvious lack of balance?

And, once again, this goes against the general gameplay loop of Warframe. And the feedback section is a clear indicator that people DO NOT like choice being taken away from them. Most people - who are not masochists - do not enjoy all of their hard earned power to be stripped off, replaced by sticks and stones in order to tackle “endgame”.

I already did it. Does not mean I enjoyed it. Nor does it mean that it should be forced on anyone either. Randomizer is a cheap pseudo-diffuclty mechanic that may only work in a well balanced game. Warframe is not that type of game.

I’d rather have the RNG nonsense removed entirely and use my own desired gear in all slots, thank you. I’ve worked for it(in game and IRL), now let me use it and get the full reward for completing the missions. Not half the reward.

FORCED Gear randomizer is nonsense and should not be part of the game mod in the first place. I’m sorry that you do not understand that.

It can be an optional alternative, sure, for those who like this nonsense. A way to replace/negate a negative/debuff/enemy buff. But it should not be a mandatory requirement.

This is hilarious. This is actually hilarious. From the head cannon assertions to the entitlement. You are nearly the perfect avatar of a certain brand of warframe player short of a few NPC responses. I see a psudeo-"RESPECT MY INVESTMENTS". All we need is demands of reimbursements for time/rewards lost for early adoption.

[PublikDomain]

21 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

It does not make anything harder.

Of course it does? Trying to do these kinds of missions with a Fulmin that looks like this:

Is definitely harder than if I had one that was all kitted out! Or some Primed Incarnon whatever with Rivens and Arcanes out the wazoo.

21 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

And perhaps there is a reason for it? Like, you know, obvious lack of balance?

So you understand? We're only in this mess due to the obvious lack of balance. If we can take whatever we want, because of that exact same obvious lack of balance everything falls apart. DE has no other option than to rely on things like the gear RNG, attenuation, immunities, etc. to make a challenge anymore. And it's certainly not perfect! But it's the best they can do when the community S#&$s their diapers at every change.

21 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

And, once again, this goes against the general gameplay loop of Warframe.

Does it? It incentivizes collecting everything and having good builds for everything. It's Warframe's core gameplay loop cranked up as far as it can go. It's a mode most accessible to people who have everything and have done everything.

21 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

I’d rather have the RNG nonsense removed entirely and use my own desired gear in all slots, thank you.

And I'd rather have a million plat delivered to me on a golden Grate Prime every morning.

21 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

FORCED

It's not.

21 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

It can be an optional alternative

It is!

It's an optional alternative that grants you additional alternative rewards.

Edit: heck, the mode itself is an optional alternative to Netracells.

Edited April 15 by PublikDomain

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2024-04-13 at 6:08 PM, PublikDomain said:

I'll take that as a yes?

So, forcing people who prefer to play the game solo to squad up with randoms that could potentially have a less than favourable internet connection if you're not hosting while simultaneously trying to work with a random arsenal and affixes that are completely player hostile and antithetical to the game Warframe now is JUST for a chance at three extra rewards?

Screw that. I'll stick with Netracells. 

Edited April 15 by Ace-Bounty-Hunter

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

So, forcing people who prefer to play the game solo to squad up with randoms that could potentially have a less than favourable internet connection if you're not hosting while simultaneously trying to work with a random arsenal and affixes that are completely player hostile and antithetical to the game Warframe now is JUST for a chance at three extra rewards?

Yeah, that kind of sums it up. You can solo it, but it's going to be a lot harder than with teammates.

1 hour ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Screw that. I'll stick with Netracells. 

That has always been an option. 👍

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

4 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Yeah, that kind of sums it up. You can solo it, but it's going to be a lot harder than with teammates.

More like you can solo it, but are the three extra rewards worth the anger and the frustration?

I did manage to do solo Elite Archimedea during its release. Though admittedly I got super lucky with the mission types, loadout options and personal modifiers. I realised soon after that this mode wasn't for me because the reliance on RNG and the list of modifiers are, to put it simply, not fun in the slightest. You don't add challenge to a game by severely handicapping the player.

[BlurCat]

38 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

You don't add challenge to a game by severely handicapping the player.

May I ask you what your definition of "challenge to a game" is, considering there are already virtually nothing left in the game that people couldn't do with their own "choice of investment" OP loadout?

Quote

So, forcing people who prefer to play the game solo to squad up with randoms that could potentially have a less than favourable internet connection if you're not hosting while simultaneously trying to work with a random arsenal and affixes that are completely player hostile and antithetical to the game Warframe now is JUST for a chance at three extra rewards?

So, making a everything solo-able in a multiplayer game and forgiving enough that you can play with whatever hardware / internet connection any player could possibly have and let the players choose their own loadout barring the fact that people have already done so at level cap? Yeah that's how you make a hard mode. Yeah.

Edited April 15 by BlurCat

[PublikDomain]

46 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

More like you can solo it, but are the three extra rewards worth the anger and the frustration?

That's going to depend on your personal ability to overcome these missions solo, and on whether you hate multiplayer more than you hate losing out on the potential rewards.

53 minutes ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

You don't add challenge to a game by severely handicapping the player.

A handicap kinda by definition makes things harder. It might not be a challenge you like, but it's undeniably more challenging than the alternative.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

1 hour ago, BlurCat said:

May I ask you what your definition of "challenge to a game" is, considering there are already virtually nothing left in the game that people couldn't do with their own "choice of investment" OP loadout?

Being pigeonholed into using whatever RNG loadouts the game gives you isn't my idea of a challenge. It's nothing but pure frustration and actively hostile against the player. Don't believe me? Try using a Grakata against a level 400+ Steel Path Voidrig with the Ammo Deficit and Gear Embargo modifiers. It's a cruel joke.

1 hour ago, BlurCat said:

So, making a everything solo-able in a multiplayer game and forgiving enough that you can play with whatever hardware / internet connection any player could possibly have and let the players choose their own loadout barring the fact that people have already done so at level cap? Yeah that's how you make a hard mode. Yeah.

You're quick to mock me, but I don't see you coming up with any solutions, genius!

56 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

That's going to depend on your personal ability to overcome these missions solo, and on whether you hate multiplayer more than you hate losing out on the potential rewards.

I could probably beat the missions solo with enough trial and error, but at the end of the day I play games for entertainment. 

Beating my head against a brick wall repeatedly just for a few extra rewards is not my idea of a good time.

53 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

A handicap kinda by definition makes things harder. It might not be a challenge you like, but it's undeniably more challenging than the alternative.

It's not fun to basically have the game dictate what you're allowed to bring into the mission while simultaneously trolling you with some god awful modifiers which I swear were not tested or properly thought out before being implemented.

[helioth137]

2 hours ago, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Being pigeonholed into using whatever RNG loadouts the game gives you isn't my idea of a challenge. It's nothing but pure frustration and actively hostile against the player. Don't believe me? Try using a Grakata against a level 400+ Steel Path Voidrig with the Ammo Deficit and Gear Embargo modifiers. It's a cruel joke.

You're quick to mock me, but I don't see you coming up with any solutions, genius!

I could probably beat the missions solo with enough trial and error, but at the end of the day I play games for entertainment. 

Beating my head against a brick wall repeatedly just for a few extra rewards is not my idea of a good time.

It's not fun to basically have the game dictate what you're allowed to bring into the mission while simultaneously trolling you with some god awful modifiers which I swear were not tested or properly thought out before being implemented.

So... I actually partially agree with you, most of the points are somewhat level headed and i can sense where you're coming from, personally i enjoy the challenge of the new game mode, in some ways it's tougher than level 9999 because you know what you're going up against in that mode and can simply equip for it, but unfortunate modifiers do exist in this new mode. 

hopefully you can adapt and use the secondary, melee, or exalted weapon, also... that situation is exempting the element of team play and coordination
(which is what I think the new game mode is (not so secretly) centred around), 
You can just be "out of luck" for half the week (it resets once half way through I believe), with your 3 frames and 9 weapon loadouts, given the huuuuuge amount of weapons that are actually in the game. 

That's also Why I posted the Dante Noctua solo Vid, because it shows as long as you get that frame, you don't have to worry about the weapons, or any exalted weapon build for that matter. Pseudo exalts such as Khora's whip, Atlas fists... here's where it gets a little tricky and turns into "let's help players sink their platinum"... so basically, we know a ton of weapons & frames go unused, but beause of this randomization factor, people will invest a catalyst/ reactor to take on that week's challenge. Very clever from a financial perspective on their part also. 
I don't actually mind that they make money through their own game, as the policy is open and you don't have to spend anything, you can earn it. 
Also, being incentivized to play new frames, as with invigorations, arbitration boosts and so on, is pretty cool in my eyes.

We (all legendary + players) had to actually talk to each other (what a concept! oof :O) once again, before entering the mission and strategize a bit on how to beat mirror defence + the murmur boss, because someone in squad had failed it before on the defence mission, and they chose Gara to help get us through. 

I went vazarin and was lucky enough to get voruna with innodem which, fully modded and wrathful advance being ready, made everything go splat in seconds, including voidrig eximus units. Had I not been so lucky, the run would have looked different (did 60% of squad's damage). We had to agree that I'd go vazarin and protect/ rez people, and someone else would go zen for the squad. All in all it was a good experience. 

I think it's a miserable experience if you don't want to talk to anyone and just go in "blind". But hey, that's what I believe is intended with this event: communicate and coordinate or die. 

Here's the vid with proof of Melee/ Wrath Voruna doing 60% of legendary squad damage, because people are quick to say "didn't happen" and stuff like that. (visible at 1 minute in)

I almost chose chroma with his new augment, which would have basically been a death sentence & guaranteed fail, because 1. i woudn't have had the crazy 10x crit dam multi, and 2. the squad was taking huge damage spikes every now and then that go i believe straight to your health, and i was in charge of rezzing people, shield gating, being stealthy...

So yeah, choices make a huge difference in game, and it's kind of what a lot of us had all been asking for 

"There's no endgame in warframe, everything's too easy",
*streamer chorus for all the years including and between 2015 and 2023*

 

Edited April 15 by helioth137
added bit about plat

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

5 hours ago, helioth137 said:

hopefully you can adapt and use the secondary, melee, or exalted weapon, also... that situation is exempting the element of team play and coordination
(which is what I think the new game mode is (not so secretly) centred around), 

Yeah. I'm fully aware that the mode is encouraged to be done in a full squad. But unfortunately I don't have any friends that play Warframe, nor do I particularly enjoy squadding with randoms for anything that requires any kind of coordination. I treat the game as a mostly single player venture so I can play the game however I want without fear of bad latency, host migrations or a party member wanting to extract only 5 minutes into an endless mission.

I'll express my right to complain about this new mode from the perspective of a solo player, but I'm not expecting DE to make any real overhauls to the system to accomodate me. (Though some modifiers could do with a bit of tweaking) I'd be more upset if I didn't have Netracells as an alternative.

[NOsPL]

14 hours ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

FORCED Gear randomizer is nonsense and should not be part of the game mod in the first place. I’m sorry that you do not understand that.

It can be an optional alternative, sure, for those who like this nonsense. A way to replace/negate a negative/debuff/enemy buff. But it should not be a mandatory requirement.

DA/EDA was added on top of Netracells mode, not as a replacement to it. You are not being punished for not using restricted loadout. Players with robust arsenal are being rewarded.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

2 minutes ago, NOsPL said:

DA/EDA was added on top of Netracells mode, not as a replacement to it. You are not being punished for not using restricted loadout. Players with robust arsenal are being rewarded.

"Robust arsenal".

HA. Good one. Thanks, I've had a good laugh.

[Karyst]

On 2024-04-13 at 9:05 PM, MystMan said:

Craft a Dante specter. I gave mine Proboscis Cernos and Epitaph for CC.

Choose everything except the "gear embargo" modifier and your Dante specter will help you quite a lot.

We went from pocket heals to pocket OG

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Karyst:

We went from pocket heals to pocket OG

The pocket brigade will be unstoppable.

[Karyst]

2 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

The pocket brigade will be unstoppable.

Now we only need auto-play.

[BETAOPTICS]

15 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Yeah, that kind of sums it up. You can solo it, but it's going to be a lot harder than with teammates.

Assumed those teammates actually end up sticking out and have gear necessary for the challenge. At this time you can have relatively new-ish players & players who disconnect or quit. Today went in with randoms and 2 of 4 left. Next time I'll go in solo because randoms are simply not dependable enough. I know I can solo it though, but I think that the fact that this dynamic exists in the first place does say something about the current implementations problems.

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

Assumed those teammates actually end up sticking out and have gear necessary for the challenge. At this time you can have relatively new-ish players & players who disconnect or quit. Today went in with randoms and 2 of 4 left. Next time I'll go in solo because randoms are simply not dependable enough. I know I can solo it though, but I think that the fact that this dynamic exists in the first place does say something about the current implementations problems.

Which will be true of any online game. Sometimes people quit or disconnect, it happens. In the olden T4D days if you were waves deep and your Frost disconnected, you made do until the next exit and bailed. If you lost too many people in a Raid you wouldn't be able to proceed. Host Migrations have existed since forever. This isn't anything new or particular to this mode.

[Nelsconey]

Arguing against the randomizer isn't going work. 

DE will not change it.   You're wasting your time. 

These same arguments were brought up with Duviri

 

If you have a varied robust set of frames and weapons.  These modes are quite enjoyable.  

[PR1D3]

6 minutes ago, Nelsconey said:

If you have a varied robust set of frames and weapons.  These modes are quite enjoyable.  

Lol, that the problem. They don't. For the longest time I could remember, heck, you can probably still see it in region chat, other players give terri-bad advice on gear. Player goes in region, asks for what's good for whatever reason, others throat goat the current meta selections, tells everything else is fodder, sell when you get the mastery, only spend slots on meta gear. Ignoring that this is Warframe. People who been here for far too long to approach the game like that. It takes 1 update to shake up everything so to cling on to certain meta gear, especially new stuff that seems too good to be true is a recipe for disaster. And do they learn? Hell no. They didn't learn when Helminth came. People were crying about how they just sold the base WF after people in region told them to sell as there was no reason to keep it. They could had gave to Helminth and now have to farm it back. They didn't learn when Duviri came out with the first randomizer. They got stupid with their Tauforges when the Orange Secondary Crit buff was broken. They just did it again with Dante, and in both instances they came to the forums to cry about it. Demanding that DE reverses it cause they're not "respecting their investments". They want to play whatever cracked out way they've fooled themselves in being the 'correct' way and anything that DE does that goes against that is obviously wrong and needs to shift to what they're doing.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

1 hour ago, Nelsconey said:

Arguing against the randomizer isn't going work. 

DE will not change it.   You're wasting your time. 

These same arguments were brought up with Duviri

Says you, a person not affiliated with DE.

 

Sure, there were people against random gear in Duviri, but not as many as there are now, with this DA/EDA mode. The overwhelming majority do not like it. And if we keep speaking up against it instead of "shutting up" - things will change. DE will not keep something entirely unchanged, if it keeps on being a hot topic again and again and again and again...

[0_The_F00l]

Finally did it earned my eyes,

Sevagoth + Cedo + Occucor + nepheri + hound

Had to use invigoration that gave duration and efficiency (got lucky on that) , specters (ancient + shield = decent survival) , extremely active plastyle of CC (shadow embrace against the liminus and other enemies while they are gloomed is nice)  , Debuff (sow and reap cleared a lot of enemies) and support (gloom with shadow haze really was MVP)  along with a squad that was decent and a weapon that was also a lucky pick that did both CC and DPS (Cedo could slow with cold procs and occucor gave radiation). The modding was something i wouldnt normally use in regular missions but it worked well enough.

It was not easy even then , and things got hairy once or twice.

But it was a satisfying victory full of valor.

And now that i have it, i think i will use the better part of valor going forward.

 

I also think we will be getting more cosmetics as bragging rights (we got the hands and eyes we will likely get the other parts too by some over the top optional game mode)

[LemuriaLight]

19 hours ago, Nelsconey said:

If you have a varied robust set of frames and weapons.  These modes are quite enjoyable.  

I have a varied and robust set of frames and weapons and I do not find it enjoyable

I (and alot of other people) don't feel being forced to use heat sword and harpak enjoyable for a lvl 400 mission that already difficult

Nor am I incentivized to forma weapons that are worthless and I will never use in the other 99.99% of content

[PR1D3]

37 minutes ago, LemuriaLight said:

I have a varied and robust set of frames and weapons and I do not find it enjoyable

I (and alot of other people) don't feel being forced to use heat sword and harpak enjoyable for a lvl 400 mission that already difficult

Nor am I incentivized to forma weapons that are worthless and I will never use in the other 99.99% of content

Ok, sure. Then run it like normal and/or do Netracells.

[BeefyScar]

19 hours ago, Nelsconey said:

Arguing against the randomizer isn't going work. 

DE will not change it.   You're wasting your time. 

These same arguments were brought up with Duviri

 

If you have a varied robust set of frames and weapons.  These modes are quite enjoyable.  

Maybe maybe not. But if you do not voice it, nothing will happen.

Let me give you an extreme example. When aura slot was first introduced, installing aura mod costed you mod points. Yes, correct polarity meant it costed you 4 mod points instead of 7. By your logic, we shouldn't have said anything because nothing will come of it.

This is EDA feedback page. You have every right to post how much you like EDA, while others have every right to post how much they dislike EDA. If that bothers you, quietly hit that back space and leave.

And please. robust set of frames and weapons? what does that even mean? Is having 5 forma'd stug robust enough? who draws that line that a player has a "robust arsenal"?

Let's not make stuff up just for the sake of arguing.