a plea to DE; please un nerf the Bramma's ammo

[Pragmatic_2015]

On 2024-04-23 at 12:45 PM, Cram_Duahcim said:

If your having ammo problems I feel bad for you son, but I've got 99 Problems but ammo ain't one 🤣.

The only time ammo is a problem is if your using Wukong. Outside of that it's a non issue.

Gotta love a chance to dunk on the forums/subreddits poster boy.

But all jokes aside there a few solutions to the Bramma ammo problem.

*Making Scav auras work with Coaction Drift (if it already works like that, I dunno I'm just spitballing here)

*Some sort of adaptive sliding scale on the plus ammo for AoE weapons. Non AoE weapons get the full benefit but AoE gets a slight increase i.e. Zarr gets an extra 5.

*Ammo pickup cool down. It can only accept ammo drops once a bare maximum has been expended.

Like I said, it's just a few ideas I've had randomly. I'd say feel free to post this on X and tag the devs in this post.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

5 hours ago, Pragmatic_2015 said:

I'm just spitballing here

Along the same lines, though fully aware the devs achieved their goal of ruining certain popular guns for most players therefore not going to consider any of it...

 

Arcane Pity

Fully restore ammo after being at 0 for 12s. Applies to weapons with 13 or less.

 

Primary/Secondary Lifesaver

Every 5s with no kills, receive 1 ammo per 7 enemies in 8m.

 

Longbow Relief

Heavy pickups provide 90% ammo. Lose AOE for all shots converted.

[HeavyFarms]

15 hours ago, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

out of curiosity and possibly completly unrelated. . .

does anyone have any idea why the Nataruk is such a popular AoE bow compared to the others? aside from getting it for free WAY down the line. . .

any guesses perhaps? 

Nataruk is just amazing all around. Its infinite ammo is just icing on the cake. 

[bonamb]

On 2024-05-01 at 7:15 PM, PollexMessier said:

No. It works because it makes self-damage an equal punishment across all frames. The point is that it can kill you if you're careless, regardless of what you're using or how you're built, but it's not going to one-shot you like it used to.

It doesn't punish frames more for having more health. It punishes all frames equally regardless of health, mods, and abilities. "You die in x-number of hits (depending on the weapon) if you don't heal yourself, period." Side note I forgot to include before is it would also need to have a short period of time, like half a second, where you can't take self damage again. To avoid dying to multishot and high fire-rate.

Not being able to just reduce the tradeoff by tanking is the point. It would really be a perfect solution if not for the existence of regen-tanks, which do actually reduce the negative quite substantially. But not entirely, and we could have a mechanic that just pauses healing-over-time effects for a few seconds after taking self-damage if it became an issue.

There's also the edge-case of Garuda and her passive which would be disproportionately punished by this. But the existence of edge-cases like that are fine Imo. Just means you have to build around them. Garuda has two high damaging AoE abilities anyways so it's not like she needs an Aoe weapon.

No. It doesn't work because it deals 200 damage to one frame, and 20,000 damage to another. For one the 200 is small change and can be healed with one ability, a couple of health orbs, one health restore, sneezing etc. For the other its a significant nerf and in the case of frames like atlas with his rubble if you don't have end game arcanes like arcane grace you're screwed, as picking up rubble while on less than max health puts it (very very slowly) into your health instead of armour :). Even with arcanes like grace etc, its still a significant nerf because as its kinda in the name - the point of a health tank is to tank with health. Its like if instead of damaging health, self damage did a big percentage of your energy pool on hit. 

Hey, I like that actually. That impacts all frames the same way, right :) Gosh I love arbitrarily applied percentages without considering that more than one type of frame and its functions exists. 

If you want an alternative option, why not have self damage on a curve (much as armour DR is) where low levels of self damage rise steeply, and as the damage numbers get silly, the self damage starts to curve off. Lets put a hypothetical number of 10,000 actual damage on the top end, and cap the damage to a players health to 25% of their max (so they can go no lower than a quarter remaining through self damage). 

Squishier frames would have to be more careful with this version, but 10,000 damage is nothing to sneeze at for tanks either. You'd play squishy frames like squishy frames, and you'd have an easier time wading to the middle of fights with tanks. Wow, mechanics assisting intended playstyle, rather than just a blanket simple number change! 

It'd also incentivize people to play tanks a bit more, as they typically don't have powerful AOE abilities so would benefit heavily from being able to use explosive weapons, unlike caster AOE frames, which as a rule do and therefore don't need the additional power of an explosive weapon as much. 

Sometimes simple maths is unfortunately a little too simple for complicated game mechanics xD Flat percentile is an idea, but its also the first thought that everybody and their grandma has had about this topic, its a bit deeper than that. 

[Lunarez]

On 2024-04-23 at 6:49 AM, Xzorn said:

Scavenger, Ammo Case, Mutation = What ammo nerf?

The whole thing is pointless since you can just use these to counter it. Only time I've seen issues is in Circuit.

Scavenger doesn't work with Bramma btw.

I think if they are going to buff it, just make it so Scavenger mods do anything for it should be ok. they work with other launchers after all.

Edited May 2 by Lunarez

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

People will do anything to avoid melee or use secondary for 15 seconds while ammo replenishes....

[Lord_Chibi]

On 2024-04-21 at 11:11 AM, KIREEK said:

Maybe things you haven't considered that could help you:

• https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Omni_Ammo_Box
• https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Squad_Ammo_Restore
• https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ammo

Don't forget dispensary, energized munitions, or the so called "useless" temporal anchor aka a literal save state for your ammo, shield pool, and energy.

Edited May 3 by Lord_Chibi

[Lord_Chibi]

On 2024-05-01 at 10:28 PM, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

out of curiosity and possibly completly unrelated. . .

does anyone have any idea why the Nataruk is such a popular AoE bow compared to the others? aside from getting it for free WAY down the line. . .

any guesses perhaps? 

Infinite ammo, infinite punch through, big projectile, and high damage. 

 

So basically a bow arca plasmor...

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-05-03 at 6:04 AM, Lord_Chibi said:

Don't forget dispensary, energized munitions, or the so called "useless" temporal anchor aka a literal save state for your ammo, shield pool, and energy.

Sorry but people want weapons to be functional without builing your entire kit around them, when you could be far more powerful just using any other weapon that wasn't overnerfed.

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-04-29 at 8:52 AM, Slayer-. said:

Your posts are now just a condescending pile of trash talk, I did read the thread and the ammo change was the best thing to happen to the Bramma to curb the spam.

On 2024-05-01 at 7:47 AM, Slayer-. said:

Or at least half of what it had would go a long way to helping out weapons caught up in the bramma nerf, they targeted the Bramma but others suffered along the way.

You can either have enjoyable weapons, or all fun dies along the way. 

Pick one. 

I'm all for helping out all weapons. Undo all the ammo nerfs. Or give me the arcanes that buff ammo so I can unnerf it myself. 

Or none of us get to have fun with the weapons we want to enjoy. 

[MeRagdoll.]

I think having such low ammo counts for a horde shooter game feels like a bad design 

[zThulsaDoomz]

No

You already have Carrier, Ammo Mutation mods, Energized Munitions, and the ability to be wise with your shot selection. 

Honestly that last suggestion is the true issue.  People just want to spam one button to clear the room again.

[Packetdancer]

On 2024-04-22 at 6:41 PM, Raarsi said:

Is aiming really that hard?

_{(Says the Torid Incarnon enjoyer...)}

I realize you're half joking, but as someone whose playstyle is best described as "lunatic bow sniper" in most games and for whom headshot-powered mechanics are my jam... even I sometimes want to play with a thing where you go "push button, everything dies, maniacal laughter." Whether that be with a Tenet Arca Plasmor, or the Tenet Cycron (or the Torid Incarnon), or whatever else. Just for a little bit, for variety if nothing else.

 

On 2024-05-01 at 8:15 PM, Tiltskillet said:

Nataruk totally holds up through any content though, and isn't as fiddly as the other "aoe" bows.  Infinite ammo, no need for headshots.

As someone who loves Nataruk, at least for me it's more the perfect shot mechanic that draws me to it. The charged AOE shots are nice and all, don't get me wrong, but being able to consistently pull off a chain of perfect shots is just so satisfying.

(We need more bows in the game, dammit. If I can't have a Daikyu Prime, give me a Tenet Lenz already.)

[stormy505]

I'd get the nerf if they stuck to their guns and nuked all AOE weapons and never added more room clear weapons. But then they added incarnon weapons. So yeah there really isn't a good argument for keeping the bramma in such a unfun state while also keeping so many incarnon weapons in their current state.
 

[RichardKam]

2024/5/3 PM8点06分 , Lord_Chibi 说:

Infinite ammo, infinite punch through, big projectile, and high damage. 

 

So basically a bow arca plasmor...

 

2024/5/3 AM1点31分 , HeavyFarms 说:

Nataruk is just amazing all around. Its infinite ammo is just icing on the cake. 

The only downside is you have to charge it. But it was a free quest item so I can forgive all the faults it may have. It also put Cinta in a really strange place - or does DE expect Cinta to be a newbie Nataruk?

And if people still want AoE gun without ammo issue, they can always go to primary tombfinger or secondary sparelacer. But no, it must be bramma or nothing. Strange isn't it?

[TotalEnigma85]

yes

people spend time and resources to use it well and then got robbed with nerf

"aoe clearing rooms ruins game" it is called having higher IQ , besides there is nothing stopping you to play slower  ,solo mode or with other players ( LF - no aoe weapons mission runs farming)

there are other weapons that do the same thing yet still can be used fine

buff other bad weapons to give players REASON to use them 

[zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, TotalEnigma85 said:

yes

people spend time and resources to use it well and then got robbed with nerf

"aoe clearing rooms ruins game" it is called having higher IQ , besides there is nothing stopping you to play slower  ,solo mode or with other players ( LF - no aoe weapons mission runs farming)

there are other weapons that do the same thing yet still can be used fine

buff other bad weapons to give players REASON to use them 

"Robbed with a nerf" is one helluva reach ngl

And your argument about "higher I.Q" is also baffling.  They're literally weapons designed to be played with your brain turned off.  

[PrideB4TheFall]

On 2024-04-21 at 6:44 AM, (XBOX)ONI Prowess said:

but if you have a problem with the drapes you don't remove the window.

The problem is not the ammo cap. I detect an undercurrent of any nerf to any weapon you utilize would be an affront to your sensibilities.

The bramma is being used less... and that's a good thing.

(If only to annoy Wuclone mains.)

(If that is the case, that's two community wins in a row.)

>Applause<

[RichardKam]

10小时前 , TotalEnigma85 说:

yes

people spend time and resources to use it well and then got robbed with nerf

"aoe clearing rooms ruins game" it is called having higher IQ , besides there is nothing stopping you to play slower  ,solo mode or with other players ( LF - no aoe weapons mission runs farming)

there are other weapons that do the same thing yet still can be used fine

buff other bad weapons to give players REASON to use them 

Lol the problem was always automation, not room clearing. Funny that people still missed the whole point despite Pablo stated explicitly on DevStream.

Automation (aka Wuclone + bramma combo) means certain people can afk farm stuff passively for profit, both in game and RMT. Hence first we have wuclone nerf, then AoE nerf.

In the same DevStream Pablo also stated explicitly they considered bringing back self damage if automation persisted - DE already had the prototype ready. The reason we don't have self damage yet means the AoE nerf more or less solved the automation problem and they decided to stop there, for now.

As long as the game cannot be automated, no one cares if you one click clear the entire tileset after jumping through a few loops (ie incarnon).

[Nira]

Only thing I think was heavy-handed in that batch of nerfs was removing the ammo max bonus from Merciless. Kinda kneecapped a number of non-offending weapons.

Still, Carrier kinda fixes it.

[stormy505]

On 2024-05-07 at 10:12 AM, zThulsaDoomz said:

Robbed with a nerf" is one helluva reach ngl

A lot of games give compensation for nerfs when players invest time or money into the item nerfed. Most gacha games come to mind. And considering the time commitment for getting max element lich weapon... Yeah a lot of people will feel jaded having all their work be for nothing. I felt it when they nuked the archon one shot setups. I'm pretty likely to never touch the kuva hek again, or honestly farming new lich weapons in general feels really unappealing cause it feels like they're more targeted than others for some reason.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb stormy505:

A lot of games give compensation for nerfs when players invest time or money into the item nerfed. Most gacha games come to mind. And considering the time commitment for getting max element lich weapon... Yeah a lot of people will feel jaded having all their work be for nothing. I felt it when they nuked the archon one shot setups. I'm pretty likely to never touch the kuva hek again, or honestly farming new lich weapons in general feels really unappealing cause it feels like they're more targeted than others for some reason.

will definitely be ruined! That's their business model and they've been doing it since the release. But as long as rip-offs are not punished, they will never stop.

That's why I hardly take anything seriously. not even my account. Because Billy can "give" their owners a few hundred million as was the case with GGG company and suddenly there is a fairy tale that they absolutely have to switch to the Win1X version. or what ever. But then at the latest the fun is over for me.

So... if you don't care about anything, you can't be disappointed.

[zThulsaDoomz]

7 hours ago, stormy505 said:

A lot of games give compensation for nerfs when players invest time or money into the item nerfed. Most gacha games come to mind. And considering the time commitment for getting max element lich weapon... Yeah a lot of people will feel jaded having all their work be for nothing. I felt it when they nuked the archon one shot setups. I'm pretty likely to never touch the kuva hek again, or honestly farming new lich weapons in general feels really unappealing cause it feels like they're more targeted than others for some reason.

A lot of other games also do not give compensation for nerfs.

And while we're on the topic, why do you feel you need compensation for a balance change?  Do you comprehend how nonsensical and entitled that comes off as? 

Those gacha games you refer to are also predatory as hell with their MTX.  I can literally count on one hand when WF even had a sniff of how greedy those games are.  

This generation of society is something else.  

[Schpoopells]

On 2024-04-23 at 3:37 AM, hviewerh said:

I don't get why people want Self Damage back other than buff up Chroma strategy, but maybe DE should introduce another mod like "Suicide Shot"; remove staggers but able to deal damage to user by 10%(min rank) to 100%(max rank).

if there was still self damage in the game the trumna would be completely useless.

for consistency's sake, everything that would kill you in reality should also kill you in the game

thermal sunder, lavos' 4, sound quake

xaku's ghost guns would be practically guaranteed to shoot you accidentally

and ember is all kinds of wrong, things that die when you shoot them can't survive 1000+ celsius flames

and while we're at it, just add friendly fire to every allied attack

things that hurt like explosions and bullets kill you, obviously

not to mention all the ricochettes off every metallic surface

Edited May 10 by Schpoopells

[HeavyFarms]

On 2024-05-07 at 3:37 AM, RichardKam said:

The only downside is you have to charge it.

Not really... 

Its a bow. Charge comes as part of its weapon type. You can rapid fire it better than most other bows. I like the nataruk even better than the bramma. (it has better range)