Jade Shadows - Dev Workshop: Enemy Resistances and Status Rework (LIVE!)

[Tau.]

On 2024-04-26 at 9:00 AM, [DE]Sam said:

Gas
Gas often lacks effective readability, making it difficult to distinguish its presence from the Enemy or yourself. It’s important to introduce enhanced visuals for the Gas Status so its presence is noticeably present. 

Some ideas we had were to, which are very prone to change:

• Extends the range of the Gas Cloud FX based on the range of the Status (caps at 6m at 10 stacks).
• Additional FX added to affected enemies to communicate Status activity.
• Gas FX having billowy volume to better present presence.
• Gas FX having additional floating particles around the smoke.
• Enemy Gas FX having additional red coloring to communicate threat to player.

On 2024-04-26 at 9:00 AM, [DE]Sam said:

Gas
Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

Historically, the [good] times you guys have addressed anomalous power spikes in hyper specific setups was to outsource the concept to more of the wider arsenal, and the game's overall health went up from that wise philosophy. Yet now, this here, cowtowing to 0.000001% of players' "highly invested" bane setups sounds completely counter to that spirit.

 

Outside of those hyper specialized setups and situations where they're allowed to work, Gas is the most impotent element there is, and by a long shot. It being the only DOT limited to a mere 10 stacks is its main cripple point, besides being massively resisted by virtually every health type (and the only health type that doesn't is always so categorically low that the on-paper efficacy is moot anyway). As things currently stand, those bane mods just counterbalance that intrinsic shafting, and the status duration still being only 6s outside of Lavos' hands in a tiny area - that enemies have to physically move into to even get tickled by - prevents it from ever actually realizing any of the map presence fantasy that its concept begs for. 

 

I say don't be cowards about this thing just to tiptoe around an angy post or two from five self-described 'minmaxers.' Reddit doesn't matter, Twitter isn't real life. It's infinitely more important than them to do what's right for the game's content itself. There's a much stronger push factor away from the game than a few social media posts, if a new player runs into unintuitive experiences like, "Ok so you've tried modding for heat, and that did damage. You tried modding for toxin, and that did damage. You combined the two? Oops, you played wrong, now you do no damage. Why? Welllllll you see, there's this specific OTHER mod you need to be using on Tuesdays in conjunction with this 7-step raindance ritual during the Vernal equinox, and because that's so strong in that specific case, your mods amount to less than they were worth individually." 

Who's honestly going to be satisfied when hit with that answer? No cope, no brainrot, I'm asking for honesty here. Apply that kind of rationale to anything else ever and you'd get laughed out the room. 

Edited June 2 by Tau.

[OrionHisSon]

On 2024-04-26 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

As we continue our pursuit of Quality of Life changes, we believe the time has come to revisit how we handle Enemy Health Types, Resistances and Weaknesses, and a few Status Effects! 

Let’s get into it! Please keep in mind that much of this is a concept and prone to further changes as we near the Jade Shadows Update.

Right now, your enemies in Warframe boasts 13 Unique Health Types. In addition, players can explore 13 Damage Types and Statuses, achieved largely through Mods or are intrinsic to your weapon. 

Now, each Health Type is resistant to a few Status Damage Types and weak to another few.  

For the players that don’t know, we have the following Health Types:

And for Statuses:

As you can see, there are a lot of potential combinations. These all have different interactions with Enemy Health Types, and none are easily presented in-game, creating confusion as to what hurts (or doesn't) what.

Our design goal for this rework is to address the overly complex enemy Resistance and Armor systems so players have more freedom while building their loadouts.

This rework addresses 3 core issues we frequently see when it comes to Status Effects and Resistances:

1. Damage Types and Status Effects currently encourage a meta that favors a select few Effects.
    
2. Enemy Resistances are incredibly expansive, with little presentation to show what affects what.
    
3. Armor has an overwhelming impact limiting Builds to deal with Armor.

We aim to streamline Faction Health types and Defenses, such as Armor and Shields, to promote more accessible Player Loadout building.

As well, several Status Effects will receive additional changes, namely: Blast, Cold, Gas and Magnetic.

Let’s get into it! 

---

New Health Types and Faction Resistances 

An example

Let’s create an example: you bring a loadout of pure Viral/Slash if you’re fighting the Grineer on Earth. The Slash status activating Bleed is amplified by Viral status, and Bleed bypasses Armor to destroy your foes.

But, Slash Damage does less damage to both Ferrite and Alloy Armor and has no beneficial difference to Machinery. In order to maximize damage against Grineer, you’d think to stock your loadout with Puncture, Corrosive, and Radiation. Blast is also especially effective against Machinery.

Clearly, there are far too many things to juggle here, ultimately resulting in the one-stop-shop of Viral/Slash.

Streamlining Enemy Health

So, let’s simplify the system: Health, Armor, and Shields. All Flesh types become Health, Alloy or Ferrite becomes just Armor, and the difference between Protoshields fold into Shields.

Instead of 13 Enemy Health types to juggle, we can work with 3 to better develop Faction Resistances and Weaknesses and create a more approachable system.

The Star Chart

So, Resistances then become more about the Faction. We can then recommend appropriate per-Faction Resistances which will then universally affect that specific Enemy group.

As such, The Star Chart will show recommended Faction Resistances per planet. Aligned with the present Faction, there will be listed Weaknesses and Resistances to communicate the recommended options for Damage against any specific Faction or location.

 

If multiple Factions exist on a planet, such as the Murmur or Infested on Deimos, then those separate Factions will have their own Resistances and Weaknesses, which will be communicated.

And regardless of specialized Resistances, Status Effects will continue to work the same, even if the Enemy is resistant to that Damage Type. If enemies are present with Shields, but the node dictates resistance to Magnetic damage, the Status Effect will still hinder the effectiveness of Shields themselves.

As well, Damage Resistances won’t change just because an Enemy’s Armor or Shields are removed; since they’re set per Faction, those Weaknesses (or Resistances) will continue to affect whatever Health Type they have equally.

Resistance Variance

Within a Faction, the Status Type Resistances and Weaknesses can vary based on Location. For example, regular Grineer may have different Resistances and Weaknesses than Kuva Grineer.

This may not always be needed, but we believe it can add some flavour and variety!

Example resumed

For demonstrative purposes, let’s say the Grineer on Earth are weak to Corrosive and Heat. You bring Corrosive and Heat doing increased damage to all present enemies within that respective Faction.

Then, your chosen Status Effects will continue to work independently as expected, so maybe you’d swap Corrosive for Viral or bring Viral via a Secondary. Viral’s Status Effect will then affect your weapon with Corrosive or Heat massively to all present foes.

Now, instead of having your Status being effective against a few enemies and neutral to many others, your chosen Damage type becomes more universally effective while being able to lean into your tried-and-true Status Effects.

With this, Status juggling between 13 unseen Health/Defensive Types has been reduced, enabling you to build easily for a Faction through two Statuses and your own preferred playstyle. 

---

New Armor Adjustments
Armor is king, most applicably on Grineer. Grineer EHP, also known as Effective Hit Points, is the amount of actual Health an Enemy has, including Damage Resistance (DR).

For example,

A non-Steel Path Heavy Gunner at Level 200 has 104,805 HP. Then, they have 10,815 Ferrite Armor, creating a 97% Damage Reduction, ultimately leading to 3,883,359 EHP. That’s a big jump from 104,805 off of just DR.

Approaching the Issue

So, it’s no secret that Grineer Armor scales their EHP to often crazy numbers—making Armor Strip that much more important. 

And without Armor Strip, players rely on Viral/Slash and Heat to work around this, as Corrosive struggles to reduce Damage Reduction to a level that feels useful to players (at 10 Corrosive stacks, the Heavy Gunner retains 87% of their Damage Reduction).

 

To address this issue, we aim to do the following:

1. Enemy Armor will cap out at a certain percentage to give Corrosive Armor-reducing stacks more of an active impact.
    
2. The Armor scaling curve will aim to be a bit more spread out, as opposed to being bottom-heavy. Partial strip from the top end will allow for more consistent damage gains, as opposed to needing to have a total Armor Strip.
    
3. Have a minimum threshold of any Enemy Armor.
         a. No armor-accessing Enemy will have below a certain minimum, Armor shouldn’t feel unimpactful. 
    
4. Health scaling of Grineer enemies will be re-aligned, to an extent, to help compensate for the loss in Damage Reduction and to try and maintain a similar time-to-kill feel.

This should reduce the feeling for necessary total Armor Strip, while making partial Armor Strip more impactful.

Players’ Armor is to be untouched.

---

New Shield Adjustments
The Grineer are tankier by design, but the Corpus try to make the difference through their Shields. However, Corpus Effective Hit Points is significantly lower, making them often trivial to deal with.

Our goal is to reduce the discrepancy between Grineer and Corpus time-to-kill (TTK) through their Shields by making Corpus Shields a bit more challenging and interesting to fight. 

Here, our goal is to provide some scaling factors to Shield Regeneration and Delay, designed to create a more perceivable benefit of affecting Status Effects, particularly at a higher level. 

Such scaling factors may look like:

• Enemy Shields having a shorter Regeneration Delay when depleted.
• Enemy Shields having a shorter Regeneration Delay when hit.
• Enemy Shields Regenerating faster.

Players early in the game and at lower levels in general will still be able to power through Shields, as the factoring, like other stats, will be less noticeable. However, the impact of Status Effects like Magnetic will be much more perceivable at higher levels.

Players’ Shields are to be untouched.

---

Enemy EHP Scaling
Notably, enemies starting from levels closer to 100 will see faster rates in which they gain stats—Health, Shields, etc.

---

Status Effect Changes
With a slew of new Resistance changes, Armor adjustments, and Health changes, we wanted to revisit the Status Effects that are generally less used in the community! Again, everything is prone to changes as we lead into Jade Shadows!

Blast
The blast is blasting! More to come! Our concepts and ideas with Blast are rapidly changing; no specifics will be made as of right now while we continue to work on the Status!

Cold
Our goal with Cold is to emphasize the effectiveness of the fantasy of slowing and freezing your enemies.

Cold now has a new effect where you freeze your enemies upon reaching the new Cold stack maximum.

• Cold has a new stack cap!
  • Freezes enemies for a few seconds after inflicting full Cold stacks.
• While Frozen, Critical Damage is greatly increased.
  • How do Frozen enemies deal with additional damage?
    • Do not regenerate Shields.
    • Weapons and Warframes that deal Cold will be updated to reflect this new behaviour.
    • Freeze may synergize with other Status Effects, such as Bleed.
• VIP enemies (Acolytes, Bosses, etc.) cannot be completely frozen; they’ll also be immune to the frozen-inflicted Critical Damage increase, naturally.

Gas
Gas often lacks effective readability, making it difficult to distinguish its presence from the Enemy or yourself. It’s important to introduce enhanced visuals for the Gas Status so its presence is noticeably present. 

Some ideas we had were to, which are very prone to change:

• Extends the range of the Gas Cloud FX based on the range of the Status (caps at 6m at 10 stacks).
• Additional FX added to affected enemies to communicate Status activity.
• Gas FX having billowy volume to better present presence.
• Gas FX having additional floating particles around the smoke.
• Enemy Gas FX having additional red coloring to communicate threat to player.

Magnetic
While Magnetic won’t be getting dramatic changes, our goal is to make the Status a stronger pick against Corpus and Shielded enemies. 

As mentioned, Magnetic aims to have an updated Status Effect behaviour that’ll affect the Regeneration Delay, the Regeneration Rate and Reset Delay of Enemy Shields!

Additionally, we’re interested in the idea that the Magnetic Damage Type will have improved effectiveness against Nullifier Bubbles! Currently, this would look like:

Increased minimum damage against Nullifier Bubbles.
Increased maximum damage against Nullifier Bubbles.

---

Thanks, Tenno! We look forward to reading your feedback! 

May Devstream Update:

Howdy, Tenno!

Over here, we’re still iterating on how best to approach reworked Statuses and Enemy Scaling. However, we’re focusing on one bite at a time, which will help inform further decisions!

Additionally, our goal is not to disrupt damage king, but to provide additional buffs to other Statuses less used.

However, we’ve noted a few questions and seek to answer them! Please remember that this is all still a work in progress and is subject to further change.

An Update on Status Effects

Magnetic (and Toxin)
As mentioned, we aim not to dethrone the established Meta. However, we believe it prudent to lift alternatives to a further viable point without dethroning the best. 

• Toxin will likely reign, especially with plenty of raw damage. 
• Magnetic, while likely not dethroning, provides another avenue to tackling the Corpus and their enhanced Shields!

However, we did have some additional ideas we have planned for Magnetic for the Status to do bonus damage to Overguard, and on Shield Break, deal Electrical damage hitting for a percentage of max Shield per stack (if 10,000 Shield, 3% of that per stack, type of thing.)

Currently, we aim to let Magnetic marinate for a minute with these new changes! From there, we’ll continue to iterate, but we believe it’s important to get data and how the changes will feel before making further changes.

Gas
Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

Viral
Similar to Toxin reigning king, we don’t seek to disrupt Viral as a powerhouse of big numbers! We have no desire to nerf Viral, and that’s the most realistic way to dethrone it, so we will not be touching it!

Blast
We have an answer for you! Blast will certainly be blasting. 

When you deal a Blast Status, the damage dealt will trigger a smaller, secondary detonation following a delay. If you eliminate an enemy or reach X Blast stacks, they’ll detonate, dealing a percentage of the summed-up damage on an AoE range!

IPS (Impact, Puncture, Slash)
We saw some questions surrounding a desire for IPS changes, and for now, we have nothing planned for these three (for the immediate future).

Currently, we want to focus on everything mentioned above—one step at a time! 

Reconvening on Armor
With Armor being capped, our goal is to make total Armor Stripping far less dominant and far less “mandatory” feeling. While Strip isn’t necessary by any means, we seek to bring the partial strip further up. Armor Strip will lose value by design, forcing the feeling of needing full Strip to a desired trait, not a necessary one.

Additionally, with capped Armor, there was some expression over less Armor making Corrosive less potent to Strip away those values. However, the raw amount removed isn’t what matters nearly as much with this design; we’re focusing on how much Damage Reduction is removed with each Corrosive stack, which will go up with our design goals, especially as we reconfigure the Armor formula to be less bottom heavy!

An important note is that we don’t intend to match the loss of Effective Hit Points due to an Armor cap. Our goal is to slightly increase the rate at which Health increases after level 70 so as to prevent their EHP from completely stalling.

Clarifying Resistances
We had some extra clarifications surrounding Faction Resistances so we can better explain other Factions (or independent targets!) 

Enemies such as The Stalker, Acolytes, Zanuka, etc., will, generally speaking, be neutral!

Corrupted, being a group of the three combined Factions, will have their own unified Resistances!

To clarify subfactions, we’re currently aiming for just three:

• Kuva Grineer
• Corpus Amalgams
• Deimos Infested

New players (or catching-up players) won’t see certain Faction Resistances until a specific Quest is completed. Similarly, this will also apply to the Subfactions!

Updating a few Warframes
Frost has received some changes! His passive has been updated, and his Abilities are updated to be properly centred around Cold stacks. Any numbers here are prone to changes - all of this is still a work in progress as of this Dev Workshop! Additionally, Atlas, Baruuk and Gauss are receiving a few changes to align with how Cold will work.

A new passive:

• Cold Status Effect applied by Frost Abilities have increased duration of X% and gains Y Armor per enemies inflicted with Cold in a Zm Radius.

Freeze Updates:

• Adds required Cold stacks to freeze instead of simply freezing to both initial hit and AoE interactions.
• Increased the AoE range component of the projectiles baseline (twice as large).
• AoE aspect will scale with Range, AoE radius is on Ability description.
• Duration was changed to ‘Freeze Duration’, but scales the same - purely to communicate how long Frost freezes targets easier.

Ice Wave:

• Changed the label to ‘Freeze Duration’ as well!

Snow Globe:

• Applies a Cold stack every X seconds, with no limit, when inside the Globe.
• The Slow label is gone - replaced by ‘Cold Status/Second.’
• Instantly apply full Cold stacks on cast if an enemy is within Snow Globe range.
• No longer blocks player projectiles from the outside anymore!

Avalanche

• Adds the required Cold stacks to freeze instead of simply freezing.

Augments

• Ice Wave Impedance
  • Apply Cold stacks per second up to full freeze for anyone standing on the trail. On full freeze, it continuously refreshes the freeze if the trail is there.
• Chilling Globe Augment
  • Update the Augment to add 10 Cold Procs if the condition is met (i.e., unify the freeze with the cold procs as we normally do now).

We'll also be aligning Warframes like Atlas, Baruuk and Gauss to properly match the incoming system changes!

Atlas

• All enemies caught within the cone are instantly turned into stone. Petrified enemies have their damage type modifiers increased by a certain %. Here, we're ensuring it works with the new Health Type system, alongside working cooperatively with Cold's Freeze Status Effect, while reducing the complexity of how we use damage vulnerability.

Baruuk

• We’re simply ensuring Reactive Storm will appropriately apply with the new Faction Resistances!

Gauss
We’re aligning Thermal Sunder to properly work with the new Cold Freeze Status Effect as well!

• Tapping Thermal Sunder during Redline will now apply 10 Cold Status Effects - resulting in the same full freeze. The duration of the freeze lasts for the scaled duration of his ability.
• Tapping Thermal Sunder will add 9 Cold Status Effects on the second tap if it hits a target already affected by a Cold Status to reach full freeze.

And Everything Inbetween
To give more room to the D Polarity, we’re introducing seven more D Polarity Weapon Mods! We’ll have a full list of these new Mods with the Jade Shadows Patch Notes.

Vulpaphyla and Predasite Mutagens
As well, Mutagens provide Resistances based on Health Types. Instead, these will be changed to specific Resistances. The below allocations are, of course, still work in progress! 

 

My "3 to 5 status" kuva weapons, are going to be insanely powerful.

🤣

Edited June 2 by BloodForCavalero

[JamsheedDevotee]

On 2024-04-26 at 2:16 PM, RAZORLIGHT said:

This stuff is incredible.

But it won't solve one big issue, changing loadouts manually is tiresome.

We need some kind of adaptive loadout system, based on the faction we fight.

If we fight corpus it will automatically chose the corpus loadout (if activated by the player) and so on.

You can set many loadouts and quickly switch between them in the arenal or in the navigation. what youre asking for is already in the game just not automatic

Edited June 2 by JamsheedDevotee

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

On 2024-05-31 at 2:47 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

Over here, we’re still iterating on how best to approach reworked Statuses and Enemy Scaling. However, we’re focusing on one bite at a time, which will help inform further decisions!

Additionally, our goal is not to disrupt damage king, but to provide additional buffs to other Statuses less used.

However, we’ve noted a few questions and seek to answer them! Please remember that this is all still a work in progress and is subject to further change.

An Update on Status Effects

Magnetic (and Toxin)
As mentioned, we aim not to dethrone the established Meta. However, we believe it prudent to lift alternatives to a further viable point without dethroning the best. 

• Toxin will likely reign, especially with plenty of raw damage. 
• Magnetic, while likely not dethroning, provides another avenue to tackling the Corpus and their enhanced Shields!

However, we did have some additional ideas we have planned for Magnetic for the Status to do bonus damage to Overguard, and on Shield Break, deal Electrical damage hitting for a percentage of max Shield per stack (if 10,000 Shield, 3% of that per stack, type of thing.)

Currently, we aim to let Magnetic marinate for a minute with these new changes! From there, we’ll continue to iterate, but we believe it’s important to get data and how the changes will feel before making further changes.

Gas
Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

Viral
Similar to Toxin reigning king, we don’t seek to disrupt Viral as a powerhouse of big numbers! We have no desire to nerf Viral, and that’s the most realistic way to dethrone it, so we will not be touching it!

Blast
We have an answer for you! Blast will certainly be blasting. 

When you deal a Blast Status, the damage dealt will trigger a smaller, secondary detonation following a delay. If you eliminate an enemy or reach X Blast stacks, they’ll detonate, dealing a percentage of the summed-up damage on an AoE range!

IPS (Impact, Puncture, Slash)
We saw some questions surrounding a desire for IPS changes, and for now, we have nothing planned for these three (for the immediate future).

Currently, we want to focus on everything mentioned above—one step at a time! 

Reconvening on Armor
With Armor being capped, our goal is to make total Armor Stripping far less dominant and far less “mandatory” feeling. While Strip isn’t necessary by any means, we seek to bring the partial strip further up. Armor Strip will lose value by design, forcing the feeling of needing full Strip to a desired trait, not a necessary one.

Additionally, with capped Armor, there was some expression over less Armor making Corrosive less potent to Strip away those values. However, the raw amount removed isn’t what matters nearly as much with this design; we’re focusing on how much Damage Reduction is removed with each Corrosive stack, which will go up with our design goals, especially as we reconfigure the Armor formula to be less bottom heavy!

An important note is that we don’t intend to match the loss of Effective Hit Points due to an Armor cap. Our goal is to slightly increase the rate at which Health increases after level 70 so as to prevent their EHP from completely stalling.

Clarifying Resistances
We had some extra clarifications surrounding Faction Resistances so we can better explain other Factions (or independent targets!) 

Enemies such as The Stalker, Acolytes, Zanuka, etc., will, generally speaking, be neutral!

Corrupted, being a group of the three combined Factions, will have their own unified Resistances!

To clarify subfactions, we’re currently aiming for just three:

• Kuva Grineer
• Corpus Amalgams
• Deimos Infested

New players (or catching-up players) won’t see certain Faction Resistances until a specific Quest is completed. Similarly, this will also apply to the Subfactions!

Updating a few Warframes
Frost has received some changes! His passive has been updated, and his Abilities are updated to be properly centred around Cold stacks. Any numbers here are prone to changes - all of this is still a work in progress as of this Dev Workshop! Additionally, Atlas, Baruuk and Gauss are receiving a few changes to align with how Cold will work.

A new passive:

• Cold Status Effect applied by Frost Abilities have increased duration of X% and gains Y Armor per enemies inflicted with Cold in a Zm Radius.

Freeze Updates:

• Adds required Cold stacks to freeze instead of simply freezing to both initial hit and AoE interactions.
• Increased the AoE range component of the projectiles baseline (twice as large).
• AoE aspect will scale with Range, AoE radius is on Ability description.
• Duration was changed to ‘Freeze Duration’, but scales the same - purely to communicate how long Frost freezes targets easier.

Ice Wave:

• Changed the label to ‘Freeze Duration’ as well!

Snow Globe:

• Applies a Cold stack every X seconds, with no limit, when inside the Globe.
• The Slow label is gone - replaced by ‘Cold Status/Second.’
• Instantly apply full Cold stacks on cast if an enemy is within Snow Globe range.
• No longer blocks player projectiles from the outside anymore!

Avalanche

• Adds the required Cold stacks to freeze instead of simply freezing.

Augments

• Ice Wave Impedance
  • Apply Cold stacks per second up to full freeze for anyone standing on the trail. On full freeze, it continuously refreshes the freeze if the trail is there.
• Chilling Globe Augment
  • Update the Augment to add 10 Cold Procs if the condition is met (i.e., unify the freeze with the cold procs as we normally do now).

We'll also be aligning Warframes like Atlas, Baruuk and Gauss to properly match the incoming system changes! 

Atlas

• All enemies caught within the cone are instantly turned into stone. Petrified enemies have their damage type modifiers increased by a certain %. Here, we're ensuring it works with the new Health Type system, alongside working cooperatively with Cold's Freeze Status Effect, while reducing the complexity of how we use damage vulnerability.

Baruuk

• We’re simply ensuring Reactive Storm will appropriately apply with the new Faction Resistances!

Gauss
We’re aligning Thermal Sunder to properly work with the new Cold Freeze Status Effect as well!

• Tapping Thermal Sunder during Redline will now apply 10 Cold Status Effects - resulting in the same full freeze. The duration of the freeze lasts for the scaled duration of his ability.
• Tapping Thermal Sunder will add 9 Cold Status Effects on the second tap if it hits a target already affected by a Cold Status to reach full freeze.

And Everything Inbetween
To give more room to the D Polarity, we’re introducing seven more D Polarity Weapon Mods! We’ll have a full list of these new Mods with the Jade Shadows Patch Notes.

Vulpaphyla and Predasite Mutagens
As well, Mutagens provide Resistances based on Health Types. Instead, these will be changed to specific Resistances. The below allocations are, of course, still work in progress! 

I'm so glad yall went with my idea for blast please make sure to keep the accuracy  debuff in blast as well though as it works well with those that use dodge survival tactics. But thanks you so much for reading it!!

[TARINunit9]

20 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Shouldn't Heat+Toxin... be Radiation? Because that's what "radiation" actually is. Toxic energy. Toxic heat.

The notion that "radiation = toxic" is very much a pop culture thing, NOT grounded in science

Let's get the little things out of the way right now: the light coming from whatever screen you're using to read these words counts as radiation. Radiating photons into your face. The very word "radiation" means "to radiate from."

But let's get away from harmless light and into the damaging kind: In real life, ionizing radiation burns you, rather than poisons you. They're even called "radiation burns" because they're basically extra crispy sunburns that don't stop at your skin. The pop-culture notion of "radiation = toxic" comes from associating the byproducts of nuclear technology with other damaging chemicals. Hazmat suits and gasmasks to protect from gas weapons just so happened to be decent against radioactive fallout, for example, or the 90's stereotype where nuclear power plant waste was treated as one-in-the-same as any other generic toxic sludge just because they both need to be stored in metal barrels

[PrimeSumix]

Bro stop nerfing enemies and try buffing elements... Idk about the rest but i'm tired of this game being so easy, DE don't you see how ppl deal 2 billions dmg, one shot acolytes and can't die cus enemies are trash??? My biggest dream is a gigantic buff to basically every enemy in this game so that it's actually challenging and fun.

[Jessadactyl]

Since Atlas has been mentioned, I feel like attention needs to be brought to his Landslide and other Warframe Abilities that require Stat Sticks to function. They really, really don't allow a lot of wiggle room for player flexibility. If Landslide, and Khora's whip as the best other immediate example, are effectively Exalted Weapons; why aren't they treated like other Exalted Weapons? It would be much, much better to allow players to just directly modify them.

On top of that, with Atlas in particular, the way he falls off of a cliff and becomes basically totally unusable in late game content makes me feel like he needs to be looked at (along with several other frames that scale poorly.) Particularly, his damage scaling, which could also be somewhat addressed with the Exalted Weapon change mentioned above.

While these changes to health and resistances will help, I don't think it's gonna be enough for several Warframes. It doesn't feel good being forced to bring something that nukes or pure utility to basically all content, I'd like to use my favourite(s) at the stage in the game I'm at.

[Oryo4231]

On 2024-04-26 at 9:00 AM, [DE]Sam said:

Snow Globe:

• No longer blocks player projectiles from the outside anymore!

Can we get this treatment for all friendly barriers? For example, Nekros has the same issue when summoning nullifiers and arctic eximus, they also have the problem of wandering around and you can't just get rid of them* like Frost can with Snow Globe. 

* Well, you can shoot your nullifier's drone to get rid of their bubble but that isn't exactly always convenient to do.

[RachoFire]

Since the damage types like corrosive cold and radiation will no longer be specifically strong against armour types and considering the example you gave that said corrosive will still do extra damage to grineer even if armour is fully stripped will these damage types still ignore 25% of enemy armour?

[Svenx13]

On 2024-06-02 at 3:56 PM, PrimeSumix said:

Bro stop nerfing enemies and try buffing elements... Idk about the rest but i'm tired of this game being so easy, DE don't you see how ppl deal 2 billions dmg, one shot acolytes and can't die cus enemies are trash??? My biggest dream is a gigantic buff to basically every enemy in this game so that it's actually challenging and fun.

.....how about playing steel path without mods?

Have fun 😊 

[ChuckTrek]

On 2024-05-31 at 11:24 PM, Cauldraborn said:

Seeing that we'll be able to shoot into Frosts Snow Globe, could it be enabled as well for Hounds Reflex Denial mod? I love using Hound and would like to use Reflex Denial without so much hatred. Spotting it isn't exactly the easiest when it's active + the Hound just has the biggest hard on for diving in front of your line of fire, or when moving around so much and the tethering kicks in making it teleport onto you with it active.

I agree, another bullet blocking bubble that interrupts gameplay. not as big as frost's bubble, but same issue of blocking. almost worse as it engages in melee so the bubble protects the target. but I do love the mod otherwise as it pretty much makes my K-9 indominable.

@DE please adjust this along with Frost.

[MekaDovah]

Hopefully this is the right thread to ask this, but I looked over some stuff talked about in the latest devstream and while it mostly looks good, something about the Magnetic changes caught my eye: that it'll be more effective against Overguard.

While I'm not opposed to this, I am curious: doesn't this make Overguard and Shields too similar and redundant? Like, what's the difference if both are similarly vulnerable to magnetic? What unique purpose does Overguard serve now? If it's something like status resistance, why regulate that to overguard? If the two are going to be very similar anyway, why not just give that function over to shields directly or replace shields with overguard instead of having two different defensive layers?

Edited June 5 by MekaDovah

[Rungok]

Okay, so with this new blast setup, I would LOVE to see a Gunpowder/bomb-themed frame! It could be like a fire and blast style and maybe have some cool abilities like being able to prime everyone around them with blast procs or maybe be able to trigger all blast procs to go off on ability cast.

 

Just a thought, of course. Maybe something a little Guy Fawkes styled?

[Pandygon]

As long as the idea is to get players to use different elements, in a meta where certain elements dominate and others are dead, it's welcome and let's hope it works.
My concern is... it's not something simple for those who have a hundred weapons formaed and built ad hoc. We exist too, don't forget about us! 😅

[CrimsonBladeZeta]

On 2024-04-27 at 12:00 AM, [DE]Sam said:

Clarifying Resistances
We had some extra clarifications surrounding Faction Resistances so we can better explain other Factions (or independent targets!) 

Enemies such as The Stalker, Acolytes, Zanuka, etc., will, generally speaking, be neutral!

Corrupted, being a group of the three combined Factions, will have their own unified Resistances!

To clarify subfactions, we’re currently aiming for just three:

• Kuva Grineer
• Corpus Amalgams
• Deimos Infested

Small question, what do you mean by neutral? There will be a neutral faction, or you mean their resistance is neutral?

And what about field bosses, especially Lich, Eidolons and profit taker? 

Edited June 6 by CrimsonBladeZeta

[abyssalcry]

В 26.04.2024 в 22:36, Koteksu сказал:

Seeing that there is going to be changes to armor,and some status effects, i would suggest to not change the health types....Its an important part of progression in Warframe, having to learn how to be more effective in missions...this might make it less challenging and rewarding (seeing how the weapons you were modding and testing,are able to work well, feels good)

Listen to this tenno pls. Change and balans status its great, but removing health\armor types kills diversity, kills the heart of Warframe

[Firaxion]

 

This post will be a direct response to the May devstream update info. Please see my previous post in this thread for my general feedback should certain opinions of mine be not clear enough.

 

On 2024-05-31 at 8:47 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

Over here, we’re still iterating on how best to approach reworked Statuses and Enemy Scaling. However, we’re focusing on one bite at a time, which will help inform further decisions!

Additionally, our goal is not to disrupt damage king, but to provide additional buffs to other Statuses less used.
----

As mentioned, we aim not to dethrone the established Meta. However, we believe it prudent to lift alternatives to a further viable point without dethroning the best. 

----

IPS (Impact, Puncture, Slash)
We saw some questions surrounding a desire for IPS changes, and for now, we have nothing planned for these three (for the immediate future).

Currently, we want to focus on everything mentioned above—one step at a time! 
 

The information that the aim is "not to dethrone the established Meta" is something that is often implied, but rarely explicitly stated. So thank you for that clarification.

However in response I would say that perhaps this approach might not work so great long term for number changes and game re-balancing.

 

I will try to explain my argument and reasoning.

 

The total sum of ALL the changes suggested in this resistance and status rework is basically Damage 3.0, without directly naming it that.

It will massively change how all damage numbers and mechanics work EXCEPT for the current go to favorites of viral/slash + full armor strip (as stated, intentionally).

 

However, here is my problem: viral/slash in fact will be even more powerful after the proposed armor number changes (singularly this change alone). And none of the rest of the proposed changes will bring up any of the other changed strategies to anything EVEN CLOSE in power.

Meanwhile, in the background, the game has had *CORE GAME MECHANICS COMPLETELY RIPPED OUT* with only a few tiny tiny complaints.

 

It is problematic to make multiple huge changes to damage mechanics ALL AT ONCE because *it is impossible to tell which changes had a positive effect on game meta and which changes had a negative effect*.

We only see "the lump sum" result after, too many variables are being pushed up and down at the same time.

Are these changes really improving warframe? Or simply producing a slightly different shaped problem? It is very VERY hard to tell at this point.

 

The point I am trying to make is this: This seems like an extremely risky strategy for the long term play-ability of the game. You may one day rip out something extremely important mechanically (gameplaywise) that gives Warframe its unique character and flavour as a game, compared to rival games and not even notice it until waaaayyy too late.

 

Two hypothetical scenarios to illustrate my point a little:

1) If you said one day "we are removing hunter munitions" I would shrug say "oh well who cares, what can replace this then?" and move on. Sure, some people will make ALOT of noise..... but the fundamentals of the game mechanics have not changed, simply one small quite popular meta mod.

2) If you one day said "we are removing overcrits from the game, but dont worry we will buff base damage to balance out the numbers", I would say "hell, is this game even Warframe any more?"

 

 

It seems like these proposed changes are happening to some degree, irrespective of what feedback, I give and I accept that. I suspect the "lump sum" effect as I mentioned above of this rework proposal, wont be so terrible. However, I dont think it will be all THAT much more amazing and better than what we have now either.

 

And the reasoning and WHY behind implementing the changes in the first place needs to be restructured and better thought out.

 

Dethroning Meta SHOULD NOT be controversial. But changing core game mechanics SHOULD be given front and centre stage, discussed and implemented ONE VARIABLE AT A TIME with option for reversal should it go horribly wrong and the community says "the game is actually less fun and worse now".

 

The priorities regarding "improving gameplay and game mechanics" in my eyes are completely upside down.

 

 

On 2024-05-31 at 8:47 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Clarifying Resistances
We had some extra clarifications surrounding Faction Resistances so we can better explain other Factions (or independent targets!) 

Enemies such as The Stalker, Acolytes, Zanuka, etc., will, generally speaking, be neutral!

Corrupted, being a group of the three combined Factions, will have their own unified Resistances!

To clarify subfactions, we’re currently aiming for just three:

• Kuva Grineer
• Corpus Amalgams
• Deimos Infested

New players (or catching-up players) won’t see certain Faction Resistances until a specific Quest is completed. Similarly, this will also apply to the Subfactions!
 

 

What numbers are we talking about here? Based on some back of envelope calculations I have done an elemental damage bonus will have to be very hefty indeed, in the +140% to +200% range to be even worth considering over viral/bane mod damage increases.

Anything under +75% will simply be a joke and ignored forever.

On a side note RIP radiation unless you give it a lot of really nice bonuses in this spectrum? Either that or i expect our beloved radiation to need a rework in the next cycle.

 

 

 

 

On 2024-05-31 at 8:47 PM, [DE]Sam said:

An Update on Status Effects

Magnetic (and Toxin)
As mentioned, we aim not to dethrone the established Meta. However, we believe it prudent to lift alternatives to a further viable point without dethroning the best. 

• Toxin will likely reign, especially with plenty of raw damage. 
• Magnetic, while likely not dethroning, provides another avenue to tackling the Corpus and their enhanced Shields!

However, we did have some additional ideas we have planned for Magnetic for the Status to do bonus damage to Overguard, and on Shield Break, deal Electrical damage hitting for a percentage of max Shield per stack (if 10,000 Shield, 3% of that per stack, type of thing.)

Currently, we aim to let Magnetic marinate for a minute with these new changes! From there, we’ll continue to iterate, but we believe it’s important to get data and how the changes will feel before making further changes.

Gas
Gas is extremely powerful due to the interactions with Bane Mods, where Gas double dips into multiplicative bonuses. As of right now, we don't have plans to change how Gas works, as players have invested a lot into making Gas work alongside Primed Bane Mods. As it stands, we don't want to nerf that interaction, so we feel there is currently no room to buff the Status any further. 

Blast
We have an answer for you! Blast will certainly be blasting. 

When you deal a Blast Status, the damage dealt will trigger a smaller, secondary detonation following a delay. If you eliminate an enemy or reach X Blast stacks, they’ll detonate, dealing a percentage of the summed-up damage on an AoE range!

 

Updating a few Warframes
Frost has received some changes! His passive has been updated, and his Abilities are updated to be properly centred around Cold stacks. Any numbers here are prone to changes - all of this is still a work in progress as of this Dev Workshop! Additionally, Atlas, Baruuk and Gauss are receiving a few changes to align with how Cold will work.

A new passive:

• Cold Status Effect applied by Frost Abilities have increased duration of X% and gains Y Armor per enemies inflicted with Cold in a Zm Radius.

Freeze Updates:

• Adds required Cold stacks to freeze instead of simply freezing to both initial hit and AoE interactions.
• Increased the AoE range component of the projectiles baseline (twice as large).
• AoE aspect will scale with Range, AoE radius is on Ability description.
• Duration was changed to ‘Freeze Duration’, but scales the same - purely to communicate how long Frost freezes targets easier.

Ice Wave:

• Changed the label to ‘Freeze Duration’ as well!

Snow Globe:

• Applies a Cold stack every X seconds, with no limit, when inside the Globe.
• The Slow label is gone - replaced by ‘Cold Status/Second.’
• Instantly apply full Cold stacks on cast if an enemy is within Snow Globe range.
• No longer blocks player projectiles from the outside anymore!

Avalanche

• Adds the required Cold stacks to freeze instead of simply freezing.

Augments

• Ice Wave Impedance
  • Apply Cold stacks per second up to full freeze for anyone standing on the trail. On full freeze, it continuously refreshes the freeze if the trail is there.
• Chilling Globe Augment
  • Update the Augment to add 10 Cold Procs if the condition is met (i.e., unify the freeze with the cold procs as we normally do now).

We'll also be aligning Warframes like Atlas, Baruuk and Gauss to properly match the incoming system changes! 

Atlas

• All enemies caught within the cone are instantly turned into stone. Petrified enemies have their damage type modifiers increased by a certain %. Here, we're ensuring it works with the new Health Type system, alongside working cooperatively with Cold's Freeze Status Effect, while reducing the complexity of how we use damage vulnerability.

Baruuk

• We’re simply ensuring Reactive Storm will appropriately apply with the new Faction Resistances!

Gauss
We’re aligning Thermal Sunder to properly work with the new Cold Freeze Status Effect as well!

• Tapping Thermal Sunder during Redline will now apply 10 Cold Status Effects - resulting in the same full freeze. The duration of the freeze lasts for the scaled duration of his ability.
• Tapping Thermal Sunder will add 9 Cold Status Effects on the second tap if it hits a target already affected by a Cold Status to reach full freeze.

And Everything Inbetween
To give more room to the D Polarity, we’re introducing seven more D Polarity Weapon Mods! We’ll have a full list of these new Mods with the Jade Shadows Patch Notes.
 

 

Odds and ends:

A magnetic bonus working on overguard seems to diminish the original design of overguard somewhat no?

Blast sounds.... ok i guess?

I really wish DE would implement some more % of total health damage effects however. Or even % of remaining/lost health. These types of mechanics is literally what made League of Legends so successful in the first place and has kept it alive for forever, they perfected the tanking damage/dealing damage balance between classes amazingly using this.

We already have Damage reduction after all, why not introduce the one bypass to this problem as a fun mechanic in game?.......

Yay to frost changes! I hope Baruuk reactive storm survives.....

 

Done! I am here with fingers crossed that these changes work out ok!..........

[masteraarott]

First off, let me start with saying that I like the change to being able to shoot through snowglobe. And while the loss of the defence piercing slow hurts, the one cold proc a second compensates. And as an Atlas enjoyer, I’m uniquely fond of the fact that frozen enemies can now drop rubble.

 

And I do acknowledge that going from 6 cold procs to 10 on most of his abilities means going from .35 to a .55 additional crit multiplier. Which is a buff, I just don’t see it as too significant, especially since you could do the same by casting two abilities.

 

But what’s really annoying me is the changes to Ice Wave Impedance. Having a Slow on a frame with 3 freezes seems redundant, but the point was that it slowed status resistant enemies that those other abilities could not Freeze. It let him be the icy guy that’s so icy he can ice harder than anyone else.

 

Removing its ability to slow through overguard hurt, but it was still useful in its role. Apollo’s demolysts, the lab’s necramechs and steel paths acolytes are all relevant threats that are worth slowing down.

 

But now it’s being “’buffed’” by being able to freeze things. Which is to say, now it is equally as ineffective at dealing with priority targets as all his other abilities. Except that Avalanche also strips armour and gives overguard, Freeze Force can be used to buff damage, and Snow Globe still blocks bullets. And the augment gives one cold proc per second, which is kind of neat – except snow globe does that, too. The added cold duration is nice, except oh wait, Freeze and Avalanche are getting that too. And in making his kit more redundant, there's now a new weakness against enemies that are cold resistant that wasn't there before. 

 

I wouldn’t be so annoyed if Pablo gave it *something* to expand his kit while removing the slow. Like maybe some way of boosting damage, or maybe buffing allies, or perhaps reducing ally friction for more speed. But it looks like Pablo is hellbent on killing it dead.  It may as well be removed from the game come the new update.

[FabiTheSnake]

I think we can all agree that most of this is good, some people saying enemy armor should be increased... just don´t understand scaling fall-off. 

Tankier enemies won´t make the game harder, i think we really need a solid counter to force a flexible playstyle, for which the Tenno are effective against sentients. 
The early game needs propper modding tutoring, once players understand the game they will see how truly unchallanged they are.

And with that, i don´t know what eximus and overguard exactly are. I don´t think magnetic being an overguard killer really fits, and CC being blocked is still not battling this damage meta. 

I hope you will pick up on that, status and CC dodges are fine, but it´s never nice to have them fully deny builds.

[Tyreaus]

On 2024-04-26 at 9:00 AM, [DE]Sam said:

Within a Faction, the Status Type Resistances and Weaknesses can vary based on Location. For example, regular Grineer may have different Resistances and Weaknesses than Kuva Grineer.

Hi:

It's been a long time since I've tapped into Warframe. So I logged in to say:

Please don't do this.

Based on the existence and use of faction mods, players are generally fine swapping mod configs based on factions. There are a small enough number of them and they're consistent enough (e.g. sorties) that we need only swap once in a while. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it sits within the realm of "acceptable."

We don't have the config slots, let alone the patience, for every single possible vulnerability configuration that locations would imply. Even just the three sub-factions proposed here puts on a good bit of strain. Players are very likely to use a generic build that targets the most egregious health type—probably still armour—to the detriment of off-meta damage types. Why mod for Magnetic if it'll only work half the time and fail to have any bonus against underlying armour?

On that note: I might suggest taking the partial bypass feature of Radiation and Corrosive and applying it to whatever vulnerability is present. Since armour can only be affected by status, it's possible that—even with the proposed cap—an element like Corrosive is a preferred choice over Magnetic. Procs aside, just the partial bypass on 90% DR could lead to roughly equal performance. On the other hand: if Magnetic rips through Corpus shields and armoured health like wet tissue paper, the performance is no longer "roughly equal." That makes switching elements between factions, even armoured ones, that much more appealing.

Just a thought.

[PoiznDeth]

Dear DE,

  Just saw the Ember notification and I just do not understand what the target is anymore. She is a caster frame of fire based on the firebird/phoenix yet her kit is backwards.

Her passive should now be her heat gauge giving her passive strength from heat damage being used. Her other four abilities should then have her current passive built into them where casting them has a bonus per heat proc while giving the procs themselves also. This gives her abilities a rewarding loop from both a heat weapons platform or raw blaster that scales the more you cast. Her one can force a 10 stacked heat status to auto apply all stacked DoT ticks or replace the lowest status to finish its damage procs while adding the new heat proc. Her two is the main one I truly can not wrap my brain around. DR that drains when other frames DR are just toggles, Immolation burning bullets is a nice flavor but why is the Fire Frame also burning? Gloom still feels better instead because the 2 energy drain scales indefinitely. If heat is her passive then Immolation can be a toggle buff that the cost/strength is based on heat level. If the drain is necessary than make is also burn things in an AoE like World on Fire was. Her 3 was fine but the reduction based on heat is perfect and feels rewarding. However, the mod for her 3 should just be overguard and the healing attached to her normal 3. This follows the phoenix flavor and the status clear mod is also in the same vain. This will match Pillage with shield and strip. Giving health frames the same giggles that shield frames get with Pillage. Her 4 or 1 is subsumed over but mainly due to the fact that they both don't really do much. Adding heat procs or insane damage scaling all I see is Dispensary or Nourish here for energy econ or Eclipse or Roar if energy was solved.

Each Frame should be built roughly the same for balancing with unique twists to the metric while focused on a mission type. Passive is the key point of the frames kit, everything circles around this in some way. First ability activates their party role or hyper synergizes with their passive. Second is a defensive ability. Third is a buff/utility. Fourth is a potent force. All subsumes should be their two or three and the only downside is losing the mix from their passive. Wisp is a good example of not having a great passive for her abilities so her fourth does nothing in the late game however you subsume more utility on her four and her role as a support stays true. Her unique ability is that she has the only ability that can CC Eximas and she stays out of harm way by staying in the air with her passive to access the battlefield and move to revive or defend points. 

 

TL:DR Ember should look more like this

Passive: Heat Gauge 0-90/100 giving abilities strength based on level. Gain heat from burning targets, lose heat slowly. Heat between 91-99 drains quickly. At 100% no passive drain for 10secs, if no ability drains heat after 10secs then the heat goes to 90% and drains slowly again. Each % of heat drained heals Ember that percent of her total HP, this healing doesn't trigger any over healing effects.

1 Fireball - Deals XXX fire dmg + heat + 5% strength per burning enemy within 50m, Drains heat by 2%

2 Immolation - tap gains DR buff for XX secs + heat strength, drains heat by 10% at no energy cost / hold gains DR buff [replacing tap buff] while toggled + heat strength while also dealing XX dmg + heat + 5% per burning enemy within XXm {channel energy drain X/sec} makes passive heat drain faster 1%/sec + 0.2% additional heat drain/sec. Tap to toggle off

3 Fire Blast - Deals XXX fire AoE dmg + heat + 5% strength per burning in 25m while stripping armor based on frame + heat level strength. Drains heat by 10%

4 Inferno - as is but rings can give one heat proc - XXX dmg + heat + 5% burning targets within 25m, drains all heat. Free cast on 100% heat.

Playstyle: Weapons - heat based weapons adds to single use beefy cast or maintaining DR

Playstyle: Caster - plently AoE and burning targets to keep the power flowing between burning targets and heat gauge

Playstyle: Flame Tank - Team keeps the fire raging enabling Ember to face tank.

Ember should be hard to kill if she has heat like a raging fire or a phoenix but like bird bones or no oxygen/burning objects, she's paper thin.

[sXeth]

On 2024-06-06 at 3:20 PM, Tyreaus said:

Hi:

It's been a long time since I've tapped into Warframe. So I logged in to say:

Please don't do this.

Based on the existence and use of faction mods, players are generally fine swapping mod configs based on factions. There are a small enough number of them and they're consistent enough (e.g. sorties) that we need only swap once in a while. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but it sits within the realm of "acceptable."

We don't have the config slots, let alone the patience, for every single possible vulnerability configuration that locations would imply. Even just the three sub-factions proposed here puts on a good bit of strain. Players are very likely to use a generic build that targets the most egregious health type—probably still armour—to the detriment of off-meta damage types. Why mod for Magnetic if it'll only work half the time and fail to have any bonus against underlying armour?

On that note: I might suggest taking the partial bypass feature of Radiation and Corrosive and applying it to whatever vulnerability is present. Since armour can only be affected by status, it's possible that—even with the proposed cap—an element like Corrosive is a preferred choice over Magnetic. Procs aside, just the partial bypass on 90% DR could lead to roughly equal performance. On the other hand: if Magnetic rips through Corpus shields and armoured health like wet tissue paper, the performance is no longer "roughly equal." That makes switching elements between factions, even armoured ones, that much more appealing.

Just a thought.

Yeah I’d echo the concern here.

Read top to bottom, this workshop goes

13 health types, too many to validate switching setups so generic gets used.

Notably though, Viral is prominent because its the health reducing one, and health is always the end target, armor and shields are the speedbumps. Slash in the current era (with something like 25 armour strips at leadt half a dozen being universally accessible) isn’t being used as an armour bypass or even a good damage type anymore, but simply because HM, the 2 impact versions, and several melee stances allow it to be forced on large yield hits. Whike other DoTs can only be forced by Lavos augment or Saryns lash. Neither is really being used as a quality Damage type in its own right.

Anyhow, so step 2 is simply having Health, Armour, Shields. 3 types. A little thin compared to 14 damage types, but the damage types coukd theoretically make up for it via status (as viral already does)

But yeah further down we start talking planet specific resistances, going back to complications.

Then of course we have mixed nodes. Corrupted missions, Cambion Drift with its two variants of infested. Amalgams on Jupiter, Kuva siphons. The Murmur and Mechs. Some of these share banes but have varying resistance currently. And this brief mention seems like they’ll maintain that status. 
 

There could be unstated merges occurring too, but the wording seems like the original intent has already started to druft iff scope and the complexity is creeping back in before the simplified form even hits the shelf. And thus kind of drift has occurred before (Overguards ever present migration from “pushing an engagement with eximus mechanics, to being deployed by ancient healers in swarms, over to other arbitrary mechanics units, and now being leveraged as a universal difficulty sponge for Archimedia)

 

 

 

 

[vixenpixel]

On 2024-04-26 at 9:14 PM, Voltage said:

I really like this squeeze, but telling players to use Impact Damage in the fashion presented is sort of misleading.

For a status rework to feel impactful, I do think you guys need to look at Viral and Toxin.

For Blast, I think letting it dissolve corpses for stealth would be a nice bonus.

Also, please don't forget about Predasites and Vulpaphylas for resistances!

Blast should be automatically Noisy.

[vixenpixel]

I think this all looks pretty good. Good work by DE. I like the EHP armor calculations. However, when you say that this won't dethrone the king, ie slash/viral, it does nerf it and may in fact somewhat dethrone it if the Health pool is high enough. Right? But I mean, it also somewhat depends on how you apply the bleed. Usually one heavy explosion of glaive prime clears a room. But if armor is less significant and the balance of lowering that effectiveness is to raise health, then slash does become less overpowered, right? 

I for one WELCOME that. After arbitrarily applying viral/hunter's munition to 90% of my crit weapons for 3 years just to have a relevant weapon to play around with, this is a change I'm going to enjoy playing around with. 

[Aphyllorchis]

First of all: DE Please don't group multiple changes together espechially not ones as disruptive as the Armor and Faction damage ones. It makes it way more difficult to see the effect of each individual changes has on the game and ends up with essentialy three diffrent discussions in the same forum thread.

Second: I do like the proposed damage type changes in general, although im not sure about Magnetic getting a bonus against overguard, mainly because i dislike overguard on enemys as it weakens CC both from Abilitys as well as from status effects and therefore adversly makes pure damage (both in form of Crit weapons and high damage abilitys) more useful, i.e "i might not be able to disable you right now but i can still kill you" (Kullervo says Hi) wich seems counterproductive to me, as far as im concerned, we need the opposit effect so: " i might not be able to kill you right now but i can still disable you". This could potentially be achived by removing overguard and instead multiplying the health of units which used to have overguard by 4 or potentially even 8. (or give 600-1200 extra alloy armor). The fact that there are at least 13 Exeptions to overguard should also give you a hint that it isn't a great mechanic. Magnetic could instead get the effect that another user suggestet: each Magnetic proc gives a 5% chance for EVERY hit, gun, meele, ability, everything to be rolled a second time. (as if the enemy had been shoot/hit/magict twice) For now that would be limited to 50% but still results in a very interesting mechanic that despite giving a comparatively low damage bonus, could be useful for some builds by making Crits more consistent and building meele counter faster. I know some of you are going to hate me for this, but i do belive bothe Toxic and Viral need a little nerf. They are just to good, especially with the proposed changes. Toxic could be changed to only Bypass 50% of the shields (100% for the procs) the specific value could be tweaked according to feedback and statistics of course, this way it would retain its unique function but end up slightly weaker in comparison to magnetic, which it currently absolutely dominates. Viral should in my opinion loose its initial 100% bonus damage, this way at 10 stacks it would "only" multiply the incoming damage by 250% instead of the current 325%. That is already more than any other status effect could possibly do and way stronger than what i propose for Magnetic, therfore it should stay the strongest, but the difference to other elements gets slightly smaller.

Third: The proposed Armor change is quite interesting, and i belive the max Armor cap should be used, although with some slight tweakes. Right now the EHP (Effective Health Points) of Armored Enemys scale exponentially because both their HP (Health) and Armor get incereased and Armor is essentially a Health multiplier (every 300 Armor increase the EHP by 2x) so if you double the HP and increase the armor by 300 you quadrupled the EHP, wherease if you increase the HP and Shield which are Additive this does not happen. For example: 100 HP + 300 Armor = 200 EHP,    200 HP + 600 Armor = 800 EHP,   100 HP + 100 Shield = 200 EHP,   200 HP + 200 Shield = 400 EHP. This results in Armored Enemys becoming way tougher as the Level increases compared to ones without Armor. At Level 15 a Corpus Tech has 950 EHP whereas a Level 15 Grineer Heavy gunner has 1.518,67 EHP so roughly 1.5x as much, so far so good. At Level 100 however the Corpus Tech has 81.415,75 EHP the Level 100 Heavy gunner has 700.733,13 EHP roughly 8.5x as much EHP! A trend which only continues with increasing level and gets worsend by Steel Path. Unsurprisingly this creates a huge power difference, and makes anti Armor absolutely mandatory. Because of that i do not think it is a good idea to increase Grineer health to keep a similar TTK (Time to Kill) as we have now, and instead the EHP of Equivalent/Similar Grineer and Corpus units should be brought closer together, obviously we can't immideatly reduce the EHP of Grineer units to 1/10 - 1/40 of their current values (just in the "normal" level range) and we can't increas Corpus EHP by factor 10 or more either, but a temporary middle ground should be possible. That way the Players get time to Adjust to the Changes and the Developers can try to tweak and Balance the game, to make it Fair and fun, without turning the enemys into complete pushovers. The final goal However should (at least in my opinion) be to have a fixed armor value that does not change regardless of Level (i'd suggest 3000 max for non Steel Path and 6000 max for Steel Path as this should keep 80% Armor strip competitive compared to full Armor strip). Changing the Armor formula however seems like a very bad idea, as it currently is a very elegant and easy to understand formula wich Scales absoluetly linear. I also don't think full Armor strip should be removed, as the problem of even 20% armor still being a huge damage reduction, can be solved by limiting the maximum armor, something wich DE is already planning to employ with the next update. Note: DE if you don't like 100% Armor strip why are you introducing so many new ways to do it? even Jade is supposed to get an ability for it, as if Resurrecting allys from afar wasn't strong enough. 

Fourth: Please scrap the idea of throwing out all of the different Health types, in favor of faction Healt, it produces super weird interactions like Grineer meat being super vulnerable to Corrosive and Corpus Meat being super resistant, takes a lot of the flavor out, limites build variety, forces Players to switch loadouts (something which i at least do not like at all) and inadvertedly makes Viral + Heat even stronger, after it will get a passive buff from the reduced maximum armor anyways. And as a bonus doesn't even help New Players with modding all that much, as there are many more things that can affect and make or break a build than just the elements. from what i can tell you could achive 95% of your stated goal by just writing the best elemental combos for each faction on the Starchart and leaving everything else as is. Oh and one little request from me should you decide to do that: please don't put any physical elements on there, it could easily confuse new players, and i can't think of many situations in wich modding for a physical element is very useful. Lets face it no matter how many impact mods you put on a Soma, it wont turn into a great anti Corpus weapon, one Toxic mod however...

 

If anyone actually made it this far: thank you for reading and sorry for my bad english.

Edited June 8 by Aphyllorchis
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