Jade's quest and her in-game model after the quest

[ChangelingRain]

33 minutes ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

Jade is not pregnant, the belly is symbolic. You literally saw the baby. And if you look into it, there's just her light. 

This doesn't hold up, because it's the same 'light' as in the quest. The light is her baby and leaves her body after it's born, as is extremely visible in the quest.

[Thanatos9t]

41 minutes ago, OrionSincoat said:

Easy... Google it. It's not that hard to find what are war crimes. 

It violates the IHL created by the Genova Convention 

It doesn't IHL law is for the treatment of non-combatants, see here IHL Factsheet from International Committee of Red Cross 

"International humanitarian law (IHL) is a set of rules that seeks, for humanitarian reasons, to limit the effects of armed conflict. It protects persons who are not, or are no longer, participating in hostilities, and imposes limits on the means and methods of warfare. IHL is also known as ‘the law of war’ or ‘the law of armed conflict’."

There is actually nothing in those laws that prevents Pregnant women from serving on the front lines, but IHL governs that Pregnant non-combatants (prisoners of war and civilians) should be treated the same as Sick or Injured in regards to IHL Law.

There are pregnant women serving on the front lines in the Ukraine Russia conflict at the moment, Google it...

But this is beside the point, it's not like the Warframe Universe obeys the Geneva Conventions anyway so your entire point is moot...

Edited June 21 by Thanatos9t

[Aeratin]

Again, please stay on topic. There's no need to argue, this is a space simply to share your personal opinion of the Warframe Jade's appearance. This is not the place to argue, discuss politics, or attempt to invalidate other people's personal opinions.

A moderator has had to stop bickering in this thread once before, be better than the past and try to be respectful of differing opinions.

[Spyke2009]

On 2024-06-20 at 7:58 PM, Aeratin said:

I'd like to take a moment to remind everyone that this thread is meant to share your personal opinion of the visual appearance of the Warframe Jade; not to insult other members of the community, spread hate speech or push your opinions on others by invalidating their beliefs or arguing about "who's right".

In the end DE is the one who will decide what to do with Jade so if we could all be a little more respectful to one another and simply share our thoughts about Jade (whether her appearance is an issue for you or not) and not insult other comments in the process I'm sure everything will turn out fine.

Spreading hate speech...

Wut? 

"Don't argue about who's correct, in a discussion board"

Also... wut? 

I find no issue with benignly asking people to try be civil, in fact I agree. As does the mods. But it's all just passive aggression in here, as people are obviously politicising criticism of the frames aesthetics now, pregnancy is a controversial topic for a lot of people. For a lot of different reasons.

If I were to follow your odd call for limiting how I interact with the board. Which is contrary to it's very design and essentially "Not how it works, nor how it should ever work" I could state:

"In my unchangeable and unassailable opinion. I simply think the bump looks awkward aesthetically. I'm all for a toggle so MY frame can look less pronounced and pregnant when I'm playing as her"

This statement being purely subjective, making any decisions surrounding her a popularity contest. Whereby people can for good or ill, simply go on gut reaction and personal "feelings" on the subject this is not a good way to make or attempt to influence, decisions tbh. It's deliberately limiting, lack of civility notwithstanding.

Then again given her current state, while I like her as a frame in theory and the bump is odd but not something that I can't "get over" really if she was ALSO an amazing frame. In practice her gameplay is as clunky and awkward as her aesthetics are to me. It's adding negative on negative and. She REALLY doesn't need the added negative. There's nothing exciting about this frame and weird design choices aside. She's hardly going to be a must have frame. She's just too tightly tuned and needs improvements. Endlessly churning out B tier warframes gives the impression that the design team is wasting their time. 

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2024-06-18 at 8:08 PM, Lordckart said:

I don't wanna be 'that guy' and ask for a whole rework of the playable version, but can we at least have the option to change this part?  It just feels weird lore-wise

You are "that guy". You clearly know, maybe try not posting this to not be?

[Lordckart]

il y a 11 minutes, (XBOX)KayAitch a dit :

You are "that guy". You clearly know, maybe try not posting this to not be?

thanks for the valuable contribution to the discussion <3

[Aeratin]

1 hour ago, Spyke2009 said:

Spreading hate speech...

Wut? 

"Don't argue about who's correct, in a discussion board"

Also... wut? 
 

Out of context my requests for peace look strange. Before the moderators post (the one after the one you quoted) there was a lot of back and forth arguing leading to some less than kind words by members that refused to accept that people have differing opinions. All that was removed by the moderator to bring the conversation back to the topic. Without the arguments my comment does look out of place, but the point remains, arguing in the thread isn't what was intended. I simply took it upon myself to try to diffuse the situation before moderator action was needed. I'm sorry if you feel I was limiting your free speech, that was not my intent, simply to keep the discussion focused on the character and not personal agendas (again, based on comments that were deleted).

[inappropriatename5877]

I'm sorry, I only read the first 2 pages of comments.

I don't get it, what is wrong with her design? Do we really care so much about a non existent fantasy pregnant infestation / metal hybrid? I even saw someone claim that they want her changed because her appearance reminds them of their inability to have kids.
Should we also change Ember because someone's got severe burn marks on them? Should we delete Grendel because someone's friend died from obesity related issues? Should we cancel Khora cause she reminds certain people of slavery (whip)? Should we make Lavos disappear because someone's acquaintance offed themselves by drinking dangerous chemicals? Loki reminds me of my social anxiety and my desire to turn invisible at will sometimes, should we yeet him too?

It's an imaginary non-person in an imaginary universe with zero realism. Some of you are also invoking the morality of the situation. Why? Being a child soldier (operator) in an intergalactic war is fine and dandy, but a pregnant suit of a blend of organic and metallic material is going too far? I really cannot for the life of me understand your PoV, people. It's a game.

To add something to this, I believe that her design is great, and that her angelic figure paired with the "pregnant" appearance represents motherhood extremely well. A mother would do anything for her child, including destroying hordes of enemies (why not?) Plus, if you are THAT pissed off about the "child" in her belly, just remember how strong and resilient warframes are, and cope with that or something.

And once more, and I cannot stress this enough, it's a game, people.

Edited June 21 by inappropriatename5877

[Spyke2009]

4 hours ago, Aeratin said:

Out of context my requests for peace look strange. Before the moderators post (the one after the one you quoted) there was a lot of back and forth arguing leading to some less than kind words by members that refused to accept that people have differing opinions. All that was removed by the moderator to bring the conversation back to the topic. Without the arguments my comment does look out of place, but the point remains, arguing in the thread isn't what was intended. I simply took it upon myself to try to diffuse the situation before moderator action was needed. I'm sorry if you feel I was limiting your free speech, that was not my intent, simply to keep the discussion focused on the character and not personal agendas (again, based on comments that were deleted).

I understand, if there was missing context due to removed posts that certainly explains a lot towards why your post seemed, a bit hyperbolic lol. I'm all for keeping it to just being about the character as going into all the other stuff honestly. Is a chore and it quickly becomes difficult to remain civil which should be a priority so the mods DON'T have to intervene. 

 

3 hours ago, inappropriatename5877 said:

It's an imaginary non-person in an imaginary universe with zero realism. Some of you are also invoking the morality of the situation. Why? Being a child soldier (operator) in an intergalactic war is fine and dandy, but a pregnant suit of a blend of organic and metallic material is going too far? I really cannot for the life of me understand your PoV, people. It's a game.

It's called "ludonarrative dissonance"

Biggest issue I can see, is that in the story Jade is being drained and dying, apparently from the pregnancy? The story literally is predicated on giving her enough time alive to birth the child. But unfurls her wings to place her baby front and centre when using her ult ingame as well as being totally fine with it. 

This creates that specific kind of dissonance I refer to. I will say one thing people were concerned about was stalker mercing jades in missions. A nice touch I have to give DE credit for is. If he does spawn while a jade is on your team. He just says "never" and leaves giving you his drop for free lol... Dissonance averted cleverly. 

I honestly thought the story was very good. But going this route all because they for some BIZARRE reasoning I can't fathom, wanted a warframe with a pregnant aesthetic... It just isn't going to be universally popular. I was expecting her to not have a pregnant look after the mission and assumed it was just part of the story. Then I realised, nope... there's a pregnant warframe now. 

[SaintAlfi]

I think Jade's design is fine. It's certainly not my favorite, or my least favorite (looking at you, Citrine helmets and Revenant Prime) but I quite like the angel aesthetic. I'm not necessarily against the whole motherhood vibe that she has, it makes sense in regards to the Jade Shadows quest and Jade's backstory. Am I a little squeamish when she rubs her orb-fetus-thingy in her noble (or is it agile) animation? Yeah; why do I have this reaction? I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and act like pregnancy is some sacred taboo never to be seen or spoken of ever. I've even heard that it happens in the real world, from time to time (I need a source on this, however). At the same time, I understand why some would have a differing opinion on the topic of pregnancy and the sensitivity surrounding it; this is not the thread to debate those opinions, however, so I won't. 

To those who may feel misled regarding Jade's design due to marketing completely avoiding the front of the frame: I understand and feel the frustration. I think there is a kernel of criticism to be held against DE here. I understand it was to avoid probably the biggest part of the Jade Shadows quest being spoiled; I get it. Do I think that we were a victim of false-advertisement? Not particularly. Do I think that DE should hide a design aspect of a warframe ever again? Even if it's because of a potential story spoiler? NO!  Please no! I feel that if people had at least been able to see the belly before the day of the update releasing that they would have been able to adjust their excitement accordingly, I'd hope. I was caught off guard by it as well; imagine my surprise when the biblically-accurate angel frame also had a permanent baby-bump. I was (and still am) excited to play her, but it did put an itty bitty drizzle on my excitement. 

I don't think she needs a complete overhaul, redesign, new body, etc. The only (and I mean ONLY) addition that I want, and think is both generally agreeable and worth consideration from DE, is to make the Forb^TM (fetus-orb) a togglable auxiliary, a la Kullervo knives. The best of both wombs. If you want the belly, there you go! If you don't want the belly? Attachments -> auxiliary -> de-select the Forb^TM! And I feel like this makes sense from a story perspective, no? Jade, the actual Jade, would obviously have the Forb^TM- she is pregnant. She then has the weird baby-frame and sadly passes away. It would stand to reason that when we go to recreate our own copies of Jade from her blueprint, that we are recreating Jade minus the unborn Sirius/Orion. Do I make sense here? I feel like I do. 

Maybe I'm a little silly. Maybe. Did I ever think I would type out 3 #*!%ing paragraphs regarding a pregnant warframe? I don't in good consciousness think I can. But I wanted to give my fairly reasonable two cents. I hope that DE at least acknowledges the feedback regarding Jades design, and I hope they do make the belly an auxiliary. 🙂

 

,  

 

[0bsi]

31 minutes ago, SaintAlfi said:

Forb^TM (fetus-orb)

This here is the best thing to come out of this whole debacle.  Magnificent!  :D :D

Edited June 22 by 0bsi

[OrionSincoat]

14 hours ago, Thanatos9t said:

There are pregnant women serving on the front lines in the Ukraine Russia conflict at the moment, Google it...

LOL
Does the event of pregnant woman serving in the frontline in the Ukraine make it a beautiful thing to happen??
You just made the war in Ukraine more Ugly and Disgusting.

Why do i have to agree that is "Cool" to have pregnant womans in the frontline? wth

[Thanatos9t]

3 hours ago, OrionSincoat said:

LOL
Does the event of pregnant woman serving in the frontline in the Ukraine make it a beautiful thing to happen??
You just made the war in Ukraine more Ugly and Disgusting.

Why do i have to agree that is "Cool" to have pregnant womans in the frontline? wth

You don't have to admit it's "Cool" if you're morally opposed to pregnant women serving in conflicts.

Where did I even ask you to?

You just have to admit you were wrong about it being a "Literal War Crime"

You said it violated IHL law. I proved it didn't and gave evidence.

Would I like to see women serving in conflicts while pregnant, in an ideal world no, but it's not illegal and does happen, it's their choice.

Edited June 22 by Thanatos9t

[Gaxxian]

hace 14 horas, Thanatos9t dijo:

There are pregnant women serving on the front lines in the Ukraine Russia conflict at the moment, Google it...

Luckily those are fake news.

[OrionSincoat]

10 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

Luckily those are fake news

Thank God

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

On 2024-06-20 at 4:05 PM, Arausio said:

Going to copy what I pasted in another thread since this seems to be where a lot of the discussion is. Fwiw, I would prefer the Jade model to not feature pregnancy.

She ISN'T pregnant when we build her, how many times do people need to repeat this?

[(XBOX)AnnabelleNewell]

On 2024-06-20 at 6:13 PM, S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E said:

Just leaving this here:

https://chng.it/jQ2BqGNpLh

Sign to show DE if you agree; move along if you don't. 

Such a silly thing to petition and it likely won't ever get far lol there are so many other things to make petitions for. Immaturity at best, egomaniacs at worst.

You'd be wise to just delete this post.

11 hours ago, OrionSincoat said:

LOL
Does the event of pregnant woman serving in the frontline in the Ukraine make it a beautiful thing to happen??
You just made the war in Ukraine more Ugly and Disgusting.

Why do i have to agree that is "Cool" to have pregnant womans in the frontline? wth

You realize throughout history, there have always been strong women who were heavily pregnant on the battlefield. Pregnancy does not mean OHMAHGASH FRAGILE.

Pregnant women are FAR from fragile my friend.

[ChangelingRain]

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

She ISN'T pregnant when we build her, how many times do people need to repeat this?

[Citation needed]. She has the exact same glowing orb in her belly as she does in the quest, that, in the quest, leaves her belly when she gives birth. So the simplest explanation is that the Jade we build is also pregnant.

[p_silveira]

19 minutes ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

She ISN'T pregnant when we build her, how many times do people need to repeat this?

Even if you repeat it ad nauseum until you convince people of this (you probably won't, but you can try) most people don't care if the Jade we build is or isn't canonically pregnant, people are complaining because she looks very pregnant, and for varied reasons playing as a very pregnant frame feels off-putting to them.

[Circle_of_Psi]

55 minutes ago, p_silveira said:

Even if you repeat it ad nauseum until you convince people of this (you probably won't, but you can try) most people don't care if the Jade we build is or isn't canonically pregnant, people are complaining because she looks very pregnant, and for varied reasons playing as a very pregnant frame feels off-putting to them.

Yeah, they are not going to listen to you, they seem to care more about their feelings than others

Edited June 22 by Circle_of_Psi

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

Such a silly thing to petition and it likely won't ever get far lol there are so many other things to make petitions for. Immaturity at best, egomaniacs at worst.

You'd be wise to just delete this post.

Your comments exemplify the very traits you accuse others of: silliness, immaturity, and egomania. 

Instead of contributing constructively to the discussion, you seem more intent on silencing opinions you disagree with. 

Threads on this topic have garnered many constructive and well-supported arguments—save for yours. 

Constructive dialogue thrives on diverse perspectives, and dismissing others' efforts with baseless derision only undermines that process.

But darling, if there's one thing you didn't disappoint us with, it's your knack for making us laugh at your replies.

Edited June 23 by S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E

[Yrkul]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

You realize throughout history, there have always been strong women who were heavily pregnant on the battlefield.

I would like to know your sources.

The two most documented examples of women on the battlefield are scandinavian shieldmaidens, and the japanese samurai-ko. The existence of shieldmaidens, while disputed, is documented in period literature, backed up by several archaeological finds. No mention, however, of heavily pregnant women on the battlefield. Samurai-ko on the other hand ar more widely documented, both in written and photographic form. And again, no mention of a pregnant samurai-ko strapped into her armour and carving out arching swathes of death with her naginata.

Ancient Rome had female gladiators, but that practice featured more mock combat, training spectacles and possibly... negotiable affection, rather than real fights.

So, I'm really curious where these numerous mentions of strong, heavily pregnant warrior women on the battlefield come from.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)AnnabelleNewell said:

Pregnancy does not mean OHMAHGASH FRAGILE.

Pregnant women are FAR from fragile my friend.

Well... A life long practice of martial arts, more than a decade of full contact viking/medieval combat training, and a long friendship with a Kali/FBS instructor gives me a bit of insight into the toll of prolonged combat on the body, as well as what happens when getting hit by axes, swords, knives and other objects typically found on the battlefield. I've also known a number of women who went through pregnancies, and have been told in colourful terms, the limitations it had on their daily lives.

I can tell you, from personal experience, that combat is extremely tiring, even in a semi-controlled environment, and you don't need a lot of force behind a blow, before you start leaking. So movement and endurance is key. Unfortunately, heavily pregnant women are carrying an extra load, which doesn't help with moving about, in any manner. On top of that, it gets really hard to breathe, when the little one is pushing on your diaphragm. And if you get jostled hard enough, jump around or suffer enough physical trauma, you lose the baby.

So, in a combat environment... Yes, a pregnant woman is very fragile, compared to a male opponent. And as it has been pointed out, men are wired to protect women, and even more so, if she's pregnant. That is why so many men balk at the thought of something that even just looks pregnant... ish fighting for her life. I know it fits in certain narratives to point at this reaction and go "muh oppression", but the fact of the matter is, those people retain the instinct to protect. If I was a woman, I would be more worried about men who didn't react that way.

[WanderingJoe]

To simplify the conversation back to the original crux of the issue, whether jade is pregnant or not isn't really the issue here. The issue is that she looks pregnant. Maybe people find it strange and weird that we have a pregnant motif warframe for various reasons both personal and not. Personally I'd like to point out her noble idle animation when she's holding a single pistol more than how she lovingly rubs her abdomen.

Other people think it's strange and weird that people are disturbed by her design. Why is it such an issue? It's not weird, you're weird! The design choice doesnt matter!

If the choice doesnt matter, why are you defending it so vehemently?

The conversation is more about the players communicating to DE than to players who don't care about her design. We're trying to convey to DE that we find Jade's controversial design to be something that harms their product and that we have a suggestion to how to make it better. No one is saying to get rid of the pregnancy motif if DE wants to keep it. Our preference is that we'd like it to be an auxiliary toggle or to have a different body model, not to get rid of it all together. People can have their pregnancy design if they want, its just not for us and we're asking DE for help to improve our experience.

Sincerely,
     a Wandering Joe

Edited June 22 by WanderingJoe

[Pneumanoultra]

My two cents on why I'd like to see changes/toggles: seeing game characters look uncomfortable makes me feel uncomfortable. It's why I prefer Noble animation sets over Agile sets most of the time (I wouldn't want to squat all the time). Running or flying around while having a distended abdomen with a solid mass in it (baby or not) looks really uncomfortable. I know that this is misplaced empathy for a fictional character, and it's probably hypocritical of me since I let my Kullervo run around stuck full of knives when I could toggle them off. Logical or not, it makes me hesitant to play as Jade.

Edited June 23 by Pneumanoultra

[Yrkul]

On 2024-06-21 at 7:48 PM, Thanatos9t said:

There are pregnant women serving on the front lines in the Ukraine Russia conflict at the moment, Google it...

Welcome to the world of information warfare. You've just been nudged into disseminating russian disinformation.

Had you googled a little more, you'd find articles on how pregnant women get transferred to non-combat roles, once physical appearance indicates either budding motherhood, or a severe case of pancake addiction.

Ryan McBeth has a couple of videos on russian PsyOp methodology. Professor Gerdes made one recently on the subject as well. And there are the old Yuri Bezmenov interviews and papers for an inside source. The tools are different, but the long term strategies are still the same.

It should also be pointed out, that there's a lot more disinformation floating around concerning the women serving in the ukrainian army. The truth is, that all women enlisted willingly. None were drafted or forced in any other way, and those on the front lines had to apply specifically to get there.

And on the subject, the modern battlefield offers weaponry, that makes a soldier two-thirds the size of her squad mates just as deadly as the rest. Yet, even the most modern gear still can't compensate for the speed and endurance you need to clear a trench or a building. So the extra luggage and restricted lung capacity of motherhood still hampers you to a degree, that could, and most likely would, be fatal on the modern battlefield.

I know a lot of traditionalists are up in arms over the mere thought of women in general serving in combat roles. I'm not one of them. I've known several really badass women in my life, and I'm seeing plenty examples surfacing in the Russo-Ukrainian war. As long as people pull their weight, I don't care what chromosomes they're running around with. However, there are still differences, and there are instincts serving to preserve the species. Building up some narrative for personal gratification/powerplay only creates setbacks, both socially and culturally.