I dislike the new resistances/status/armor rework.

[kuciol]

Armor cap has nothing to do with it since i can always strip it away. Blast just became good, magnetic usable, cold great. Now they are an option, they were not before. End of story. I see you try really hard to have last word so i will let you have it. This takes us nowhere anyway.

Edited Thursday at 02:40 AM by kuciol

[Merkranire]

Just now, kuciol said:

Armor cap has nothing to do with it since i can always strip it away. Blast just became good, magnetic usable, cold great. Now they are an option, they were not before. End of story.

So I’m guessing you don’t know enough as to hazard a guess at why I view one as a good change, and the other as a bad change

 

They weren’t an option before, huh. Never stopped me, the only problem that blast and magnetic had were that they weren’t interesting or had much use outside of the Corpus and… whatever else was weak to blast. Which I honestly struggle to recall; I think it was ancients and machinery at 50%? Never really used them because they weren’t that interesting or had much in the way of resistance/weaknesses going for them unless it was intrinsic to the weapon or I felt like it, and now they are, so I would have had more reason to use them and more reason to consider what I’m fighting and how I’m using them

[kuciol]

14 minutes ago, Merkranire said:

So I’m guessing you don’t know enough as to hazard a guess at why I view one as a good change, and the other as a bad change

 

They weren’t an option before, huh. Never stopped me, the only problem that blast and magnetic had were that they weren’t interesting or had much use outside of the Corpus and… whatever else was weak to blast. Which I honestly struggle to recall; I think it was ancients and machinery at 50%? Never really used them because they weren’t that interesting or had much in the way of resistance/weaknesses going for them unless it was intrinsic to the weapon or I felt like it, and now they are, so I would have had more reason to use them and more reason to consider what I’m fighting and how I’m using them

Blast and magnetic had no upsides. They were outperformed by everything else. 

 

I dont know why you view resistances revamp as bad when old ones made no sense and were pointless. On top of it the moment you used defense strip everything was already the same. Different shields were pointless because toxic bypassed both. Different armors were stupid since slash bypassed both. Why did it matter that puncture had dmg bonus against armor when it was always better to just remove the armor from equation. All of this was useless bloat.

Edited Thursday at 02:58 AM by kuciol

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

2 hours ago, kuciol said:

Blast and magnetic had no upsides. They were outperformed by everything else. 

 

I dont know why you view resistances revamp as bad when old ones made no sense and were pointless. On top of it the moment you used defense strip everything was already the same. Different shields were pointless because toxic bypassed both. Different armors were stupid since slash bypassed both. Why did it matter that puncture had dmg bonus against armor when it was always better to just remove the armor from equation. All of this was useless bloat.

I hated the re work at first.

Currently I can't decide how I feel about it. 

I'm not generally a fan of the gaming trope of rock paper scissors Pokémon logic. 

Water Pokémon do more damage against fire types because, they just do okay?

Magnetic was strong against corpus shields. 

Yes, it was kind of pointless because you'd probably build for viral (or whatever) and ignore that anyway but there were differences. 

There was a difference between corpus shield and flesh. Between x robot unit that had armor etc.

Now it's just. Magnetic is strong against corpus *across the board* always all the time.

Why is corpus meat suddenly taking more damage from Magnetic? It just does okay.

On the grineer side we got a kinda/sorta nerf against viral/slash set ups but armor matters alot less now and partial armor strip got buffed.

So what I feel like this means in practice is enemies are even more squishy than they already were. Which was unnecessary.

[Hayrack]

The comments are so ingenuine, lol... My Gas builds, that used to shred almost everywhere, were forever banished to Deimos, on top of having  damage bonus reduced to 50% 😭. It's a direct nerf. I now have to rework all my exotic status combos.

I also don't understand, where is the simplification. Puncture and Magnetic is now suggested against Corpus, but what about Impact? Does it no longer has bonus damage against Shields? Do Proto shields on heavy corpus Units no longer have their weakness bonus? DO PROTO SHIELDS EVEN EXIST ANYMORE?

Edited Thursday at 09:57 AM by Hayrack

[vixenpixel]

On 2024-06-25 at 3:45 AM, Merkranire said:

And the hilarious irony is that most players weren’t interested in exploring alternative build and playstyles in the first place, they’re still not interested now, and even if someone did somehow become interested, there’s less incentive to explore and do

DE can try and entice players into mixing things up, it’s not going to happen once the dust settled and players find their new favourite forever builds

Well it's obvious that the status/faction stuff is aimed at a broader audience. You were never required to bring the right element to tackle certain content because enemies melt easy to a wellbuilt anything. You don't need incarnon to be a boss. But now, with weaknesses more accessible it is much more likely a new focus on building specific loadouts emerges. Imo a good change. In the future we may see more enemy strength adjustments. DE often adds crap things in order to test the waters or in anticipation of future changes, just look at all the cold-focused arcanes they gave us pre any impactful cold changes. Of course, then they overtuned blast while nerfing slash/viral, creating new imbalances and making those cold arcanes a memory of a hopeful future. 

[Tsukinoki]

2 hours ago, Hayrack said:

I also don't understand, where is the simplification. Puncture and Magnetic is now suggested against Corpus, but what about Impact? Does it no longer has bonus damage against Shields? Do Proto shields on heavy corpus Units no longer have their weakness bonus? DO PROTO SHIELDS EVEN EXIST ANYMORE?

Base corpus now take 50% more damage from puncture and magnetic.  That's it.  That's their weaknesses.  Doesn't matter if they have shields or not, or are a robot or not.
As for resistances?  None.

Impact no longer deals bonus damage to shields.
Proto shields no longer exist (and as a result no longer have a pointless weakness to toxin, even though toxin ignores shields and therefore never applies)
 

Toxin damage still ignores and bypasses shields just like before.

 

The simplification is that you no longer need to memorize "This unit has proto shields, which is different than normal shields, and have absolutely no way in game to tell them apart.....better go to a wiki and memorize the enemy health types"
Now it's just "Corpus are weak to these elements, Amalgam Corpus are weak to these elements and resist blast, etc."

No more 13 health types to memorize which units had which health types.

It's a flat per faction bonus/resistance.

Edited Thursday at 12:15 PM by Tsukinoki

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

So now there’s actually a reason to bring magnetic to a faction that was allegedly resistant to it. Does that not strike you as being in-line with the concept behind resistances where you bring a damage type that can find a use, but you have to be considerate of when to use it? Resistances don’t have much of an impact if the thing the enemy is resisting isn’t even part of the damage pool brought for the mission

And I remember hearing people talk all the time about toxin for corpus, but when I went playing around with it, I often found that distributing my damage across shields and health, while able to quickly handle things like crewmen, was often simply not as fast as doing direct unified damage to chew through shields, especially when hitting the corpus robotics (which I’d often switch to something electric-based); I was always wondering just how overbuilt for the content players were, which undermines the idea of resistances as has been noted many times before

Not sure what you are even asking really. 

And if you didnt see the benefit of Toxin you've gone done something wrong. No need to overbuild anything. Since even with a --- resistance in the old system, a robotic unit should die quicker to or as quick to toxin as it would versus any other damage type, since you only ever had to remove 20% or so of their total HP, since that was the size of their health out of their full EHP pool. But iirc robotics were like uhm - only, so a 25% damage reduction versus toxin.

17 hours ago, Merkranire said:

My number-cruching dudes, I don’t know what to tell you, but I just made the builds, followed the +s and -s, jumped into the content according to how I’m built, and through whatever balancing magic DE utilised, the game figured itself out.

And the way it figured itself out was that heavy units were crunchier than lights, but not so much that it was like facing an Angel or the Wolf, and resistances impacted moment-to-moment gameplay. Whatever metric you’re using to determine a “sufficient kill rate”, I have to wonder whether you were trying to treat heavies like they need to die as fast as fodder, which would mean that fodder then dies faster than fodder and resistances don’t matter as much if at all.

And I seriously have to question your idea of acceptable rate of killing because I know what’s considered acceptable in general, and what’s considered acceptable doesn’t leave room for things like enemies being a little tougher and hanging around a little longer, especially in the non-SP content

I'll have to go with a "horse S#&$" in this case. Since well math doesnt lie.

Look at it this way. If you have a build that can kill trash in 1 second, then a mob with 10x that EHP will suddenly be a 10 second long fight. If you have a build that kills the trash in 2 seconds, that same mob with 10x more EHP will suddenly be a 20 second long fight. And so it contonues on and on and on. 

You can put this into comparison with the examples given earlier with up to 32x the EHP, which would result in 16-32 second TTK for the CHG in a corpus fissure depening on which mobs you are killing in 1 second with your weapon. Then if you build for "engaging" encounters versus all mobs, so you say increase the TTK to 2 or 3 seconds, well then you suddely double or tripple the time it takes you to kill the CHGs in those same missions. So there isnt many ways you can build so the CHG is engaging while not also 1HKing all trash.

 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

6 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

Well it's obvious that the status/faction stuff is aimed at a broader audience. You were never required to bring the right element to tackle certain content because enemies melt easy to a wellbuilt anything. You don't need incarnon to be a boss. But now, with weaknesses more accessible it is much more likely a new focus on building specific loadouts emerges. Imo a good change. In the future we may see more enemy strength adjustments. DE often adds crap things in order to test the waters or in anticipation of future changes, just look at all the cold-focused arcanes they gave us pre any impactful cold changes. Of course, then they overtuned blast while nerfing slash/viral, creating new imbalances and making those cold arcanes a memory of a hopeful future. 

Except cold is still a monster, especially when corrosive, gas and magnetic are at play. The utility of cold's proc, plus the powerful cold based arcanes and mods, turns every weapon into a primer/CC/crit booster. The thinking involved in setups now has greatly expanded and makes better use of the full arsenal, IMO. 

[vixenpixel]

5 hours ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Except cold is still a monster, especially when corrosive, gas and magnetic are at play. The utility of cold's proc, plus the powerful cold based arcanes and mods, turns every weapon into a primer/CC/crit booster. The thinking involved in setups now has greatly expanded and makes better use of the full arsenal, IMO. 

Oooh. I feel like you are describing a magnetic progenitor glaxion built for corrosive and radiation and priming while putting gas + secondary shiver on something like sporelacer. That sounds sick. Or i guess you could just mean priming for melee but that's not nearly as exciting.