Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[ConfusingEel]

4 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

There is plenty of hidden rooms in Zariman and Sanctum, with puzzles ; and it seems like there are not well known.

 

23 minutes ago, ConfusingEel said:

and I'm not talking about one off rooms with a few crates

There's isn't plenty. There's a few. And there is little reason to go in the few that are there, oh boy 500 credits. At least with Gas city to their credit the Salad rooms have captura scenes you won't get else where. I remember an old corpus tile pretty sure it was a ship where you could just bypass the elevator by going through a vent. They're really sleeping on the lockdown mechanic, you just find a nearby console to hack instead of finding alternate routes. 

[PublikDomain]

On 2024-08-25 at 8:39 AM, dwqrf said:

It's just sad that you are trying really hard to make the paracyst a good dps weapons when it's already a decent, normal tiered, version of a burst weapons featuring really high status chance. But you'd like it to be a Crit+slash weapons, which it's not. 

OK, and I think it's sad that I can't make it a good DPS weapon. It's sad that the only things that are good are the "crit+slash" weapons you seem to think I want the Paracyst to be. The Paracyst shouldn't need to be turned into some generic crit+slash blandy bland bland. It should be able to be good just being what it is.

On 2024-08-25 at 8:39 AM, dwqrf said:

Nah, it feels terrible to spend a whole week farming and formating a weapon for barely any dps increase or TTK decrease.

And I think it feels just as terrible to spend a whole week farming and forma'ing a weapon over here just for it to suck and never get used. Warframe has the same problem you're talking about, just slightly different.

On 2024-08-25 at 8:39 AM, dwqrf said:

What do you think people do ? Well, first, they completely ignore the weapons level 1-99, because, you know, who cares about base story content. But then, they also ignore the one hundred different normal and rare weapons level 100, because, who cares, you have weapons that do 5-10% more dps that you can get, and that look cool and shiny. So people eventually play all the weapons in the game only for MR, and will only use the top end weapons in endgame content. That's so weird. YOU'd think they will choose one of the 90 rares weapons which do only 5-10% less dps for the style or fun of it... But they don't, because the 15 ultimate weapons feature every top end of every categories of weapons in game, ending with 99% usage while the rest stagnate at 1%, just until players get better ones.

Which is fine! 100% totally OK. Most players are going to hyper-optimize to the same top percentile of weapons and that's normal. It's so normal that we see the exact same thing happening over here! Warframe has the same problem you're talking about, just slightly different.

But giving up 5-10% is a lot less of a hurdle than giving up 50-99%. So even if most people are boring and bland and use the same small handful of whatevers, other people can still use their favorite thing and not be that much behind. Though from checking the FD wiki it looks like ultimate weapons also have a perk, which other lower weapons don't get? If so then yeah there's going to be an incentive to only use those since they get things other weapons can't. Which would be bad, and produce all the same negative effects we have over here with our narrow and boring meta, so maybe it's not really the best example for balance?

On 2024-08-25 at 8:39 AM, dwqrf said:

But... People do level cap and eidolons with mk1 weapons... Even before incarnon, so I still don't get your point.

I think there's quite a difference between "can comfortably" and "can technically". Can you technically do levelcap and Eidolon runs with MK1 weapons if you armor strip and use big buffs and support it with a primer and all the other stuff? Sure. Is it going to be as comfortable or convenient or performant as what you can do with a more powerful weapon? Nope. And you can apply all the same buffs and support and primer and armor strips and whatever to that more powerful weapon, too! And that's all the more free space to devote to making yourself stronger in other ways, be it survivability or sustainability or whatever.

[PublikDomain]

On 2024-08-25 at 11:29 AM, kuciol said:

Bland is having weapons as skins.

DE is adding 5 new Incarnons with the next update. Will that make the game more or less bland?

On 2024-08-25 at 11:29 AM, kuciol said:

You start with nothing and you aquire stronger things, rank up mods, get better weapons, new frames. Thats the thing that keeps players going first 100-150 hours. Most players dont have 1k hours in missions like we do. This "upgrade syndrome" is what gets players hooked.

But new frames aren't stronger? DE deliberately balances frames so they're more or less equal. And the ones that aren't equal get buffed (or nerfed). And none of them have direct MR restrictions. So this idea of progression is clearly not important for those items.

And mods already make way more of a difference than weapon selection. For example damage mods multiply my Khora's damage about 2,000x. So why do weapons need to make a big power difference too? Wouldn't getting new and more powerful mods be enough to make you feel stronger over time? Why do weapons need to be sacrificed on that altar too, especially when frames aren't?

On 2024-08-25 at 11:29 AM, kuciol said:

Now you admit that dmg is not everything

Sure. Do you agree with me that damage is not everything?

Edited August 27 by PublikDomain

[Rexis12]

6 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Sounds like the Warframe grind's gotten to your head.

 

6 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Seriously, consider whether or not Warframe is fun to you at this point. It sounds like it's not

Oh don't mistake me criticising Warframe's mechanics as me not enjoying it anymore. 

In fact I'm enjoying Warframe way more now, than I have before. With them adding in systems and mechanics that allow for either build synergies and counter play compared to before. 

I'm just stating that for most of its lifespan and still with some of the enemies Warframe provides you with little incentive to actively engage with their player-to-enemy mechanics in terms both loot reward and gameplay, which in turn incentives the more 'Easy' options that people like to bemoan. 

[MrInubis]

35 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

DE is adding 5 new Incarnons with the next update. Will that make the game more or less bland?

If the leaks are correct than less. Its some of less popular weapons.

 

35 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

But new frames aren't stronger? DE deliberately balances frames so they're more or less equal. And the ones that aren't equal get buffed (or nerfed). And none of them have direct MR restrictions. So this idea of progression is clearly not important for those items.

And mods already make way more of a difference than weapon selection. For example damage mods multiply my Khora's damage about 2,000x. So why do weapons need to make a big power difference too? Wouldn't getting new and more powerful mods be enough to make you feel stronger over time? Why do weapons need to be sacrificed on that altar too, especially when frames aren't?

But there are primes that are the later upgrades for warframes. Frames are far from created equal. They are thematic first and formost. Frames are locked behind planet and quest progression. Its still progressing but in different way. Weapons must be that way simply because its boring to use the same thing. Players want to get stronger over time. You also fight stronger enemies so you should expect better loot. Mods are simply not enough. You also completely disregard complexity. You said you want ttk to be 6s, but for what setup? Trinity with energize and arcane grace or Rhino with molt augmented and subsumed nourish? If ifs the first than Rhino will have TTT of 0,1s, if its the latter than Trinity will have TTK of 40s. 

 

35 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Sure. Do you agree with me that damage is not everything?

Thats what i said, you are the one crying "just more dmg will fix everything, even cure cancer".

Edited August 27 by kuciol

[vixenpixel]

3 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Ok. Well, I'm just letting you know, because, as you mentioned, there's 30 pages going on here. A lot of it is "dwqrf" acting like we're trying to change the game, but in reality we're just trying to get something added.

 

(The same guy that's trying to "recruit you" by being a little bit sucky-uppy. But to each their own, I suppose.)

Ohh... Is that why he said I'm smart...

Maaaan...

Adding sounds good, changing sounds bad. I'm glad we agree. :)

[RichardKam]

10分钟前 , kuciol 说:

But there are primes that are the later upgrades for warframes. Frames are far from created equal. They are thematic first and formost. Frames are locked behind planet and quest progression. Its still progressing but in different way. Weapons must be that way simply because its boring to use the same thing. Players want to get stronger over time. You also fight stronger enemies so you should expect better loot. Mods are simply not enough. You also completely disregard complexity. You said you want ttk to be 6s, but for what setup? Trinity with energize and arcane grace or Rhino with molt augmented and subsumed nourish? If ifs the first than Rhino will have TTT of 0,1s, if its the latter than Trinity will have TTK of 40s.

Not to mention there are utilization, CC, buff and debuff frames.

Nyx for one. There is no damaging ability, and no TTK to speak of. It is not 1:2500, it is 0:2500. Shall we put damage on her psychic bolts and make it as strong as Khora? Press 2 and enemies explode here and there! Wonderful and fits perfectly for a mind control frame.

And we have Loki. Again there is no damaging ability and no TTK, unless we are saying radial disarm should be buffed to the same level as Gara but wait, I think people want invisibility from Loki?

Now we introduce the crit machine Harrow. What about him? How to boost his TTK when his power depends on your weapon builds?

Let's also look at the most versatile and OP frame called Wisp. The only damaging ability is her 4. Completely trash. Useless in SP. 10x times worst than Qorvex. Took forever to kill one single lancer. Obviously Wisp is in a very bad shape and need a buff because no one is going to play her.

Next we talk about mission type. We have missions that focus on killing like exterminate and survival, and we also have missions that focus on CC like interception, mobile defense, alchemy, and we also have spy, and we also have parkour like void flood. Where is the TTK here? Or are we going to stat squish the missions as well? Kill 60 enemies to unlock the 3 vaults in spy? Kill 10 eximus to capture a tower? Jesus.

But PublikDomain never consider all these because he never understand the point of this game, and his only solution is PUSH IIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT!!!! PUSHHHHHH!!!

Push what? For what? No one knows.

[PublikDomain]

44 minutes ago, kuciol said:

If the leaks are correct than less. Its some of less popular weapons.

Ok, and what if they do another 5 more Incarnons after that? And another 5 after that? Will that make the game more or less bland?

46 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Frames are far from created equal.

Yes, sometimes a frame is way more powerful than all the others. Sometimes a frame is way less powerful than all the others. And what does DE do with those frames? They balance them. They might not be perfectly equal, but they are equal enough and that's always been the intent.

We understand the importance of power fantasy, but overbearing abilities can make squadmates feel ineffective by seriously disrupting intended gameplay flow. Conversely, when a Warframe doesn’t do enough, players may simply choose a “better” frame, sacrificing personalization and diversity for efficiency. Neither of these situations are ideal, so let’s shake things up!
-Digital Extremes, 2018

46 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Frames are locked behind planet and quest progression.

Up to what, MR7? That's even less "progression" than than weapon MR locks. And Primes, the "later upgrades" which only give minor stat improvements that make no practical difference, have no MR restrictions at all.

48 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Mods are simply not enough.

And how much is "enough"? How many times stronger do you expect to get?

55 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Thats what i said, you are the one crying "just more dmg will fix everything, even cure cancer".

Ok so what if weapons dealt 1/100th as much damage? Just across the board, everything gets divided by 100. Things that scale like weapons too, and the few ability outliers out there. All cut. And enemy EHP goes down to 1/100th as well. What then? Damage isn't everything, right? So what does it matter if damage goes down?

Because remember that from my perspective:

On 2024-08-21 at 11:32 AM, PublikDomain said:

buffs and nerfs are two sides of the same coin, and that any buff DE does could also be achieved identically with an equal and opposite nerf. Whether it's a buff or a nerf doesn't really matter to me, it's just about the practicality of it. And from my perspective, nerfs would be simpler and much more effective.

I want to buff the things on the bottom ^{_{by nerfing the things on top}}. I just leave the last bit out because if you're REEEEing when I say "only buff" just imagine how hard you'd REEEE if I talked nerfs instead.

[PublikDomain]

50 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

his only solution is PUSH IIIIIIIITTTTTTTTT!!!! PUSHHHHHH!!!

52 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

Push what? For what? No one knows.

Power, so it's more consistent, so you can have fun with a greater variety of weapons, frames, and mechanics and so DE can balance the game easier and so they can create the challenging/cooperative content the majority of players are asking for without having to rely on mechanics like gear RNG and Damage Attenuation that you guys dislike but are going to get nerfed with anyways because DE currently has no choice. As I've said over and over again.

[Sporthand]

Edited August 27 by Sporthand

[Ventura_Highway]

41 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

 

Oh don't mistake me criticising Warframe's mechanics as me not enjoying it anymore. 

In fact I'm enjoying Warframe way more now, than I have before. With them adding in systems and mechanics that allow for either build synergies and counter play compared to before. 

I'm just stating that for most of its lifespan and still with some of the enemies Warframe provides you with little incentive to actively engage with their player-to-enemy mechanics in terms both loot reward and gameplay, which in turn incentives the more 'Easy' options that people like to bemoan. 

Oh, okay. Well if you know the true nature of the beast and still chose to ride it that's completely fine. Yeah the game has been getting better. The Murmur at least try to reward you for shooting at certain spots even if it's pretty easy to just obliterate them.

[MrInubis]

14 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Ok, and what if they do another 5 more Incarnons after that? And another 5 after that? Will that make the game more or less bland

Depends on what weapons and what Incarnon will do. If its just more dmg for like Tigris Prime than yes. Everything can overstay its welcome. Thats lategame progression anyway. They should be the best in class weapons.

16 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

how much is "enough"?

Around current power level is for my liking. 

 

18 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Ok so what if weapons dealt 1/100th as much damage? Just across the board, everything gets divided by 100. Things that scale like weapons too, and the few ability outliers out there. All cut. And enemy EHP goes down to 1/100th as well. What then? Damage isn't everything, right? So what does it matter if damage goes down?

Than nothing changes but its pointless to do. Than again my valkyr hits up to 250m while soma prime does 5k per bullet. The difference stays the same but will look stupid.

 

22 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

want to buff the things on the bottom ^{_{by nerfing the things on top}}. I just leave the last bit out because if you're REEEEing when I say "only buff" just imagine how hard you'd REEEE if I talked nerfs instead

I dont want nerfs because i like being op. It is also important to have "the best" weapons. You disregard machanical difference in how weapons play, what mr are they for, even variants have no meaning. What Latron should be the "balanced" one? Normal, Incarnon, wraith or prime? You dont understand how much would have to be changed. Thats your problem.

[MrInubis]

27 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Up to what, MR7? That's even less "progression" than than weapon MR locks. And Primes, the "later upgrades" which only give minor stat improvements that make no practical difference, have no MR restrictions at all.

Its still like 100h. Stop looking at it from perspective of a person that knows everything about the game. When i did 2nd dream i was mr around 12 and had over 100h in game.

Edited August 27 by kuciol

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , PublikDomain 说:

Power, so it's more consistent, so you can have fun with a greater variety of weapons, frames, and mechanics and so DE can balance the game easier and so they can create the challenging/cooperative content the majority of players are asking for without having to rely on mechanics like gear RNG and Damage Attenuation that you guys dislike but are going to get nerfed with anyways because DE currently has no choice. As I've said over and over again.

I literally just told you the arsenal and game modes are too diverse to pick one single parameters for "balance". But no, just push up the "power" and everything will be fine.

Power? Define "power", and how to translate the power of Nyx afk-ing SP interception and mobile defense without firing one single shoot, and the power of Dante and Sevagoth nuking the entire room in exterminate, and the power of Loki and Ivara breezing through any spy mission with only 3 mods. There are many such extreme coordinates in this game and you are trying to divide them by one single denominator.

"Oh Khora is so powerful. All other frames are sxxt poor at dealing damage. Too unbalance! 2500x difference! Lazy developers!" Yeah try bringing Khora to spy and void flood and suddenly she is not as powerful as Loki and Ivara and Titania. Even a fxxking Limbo can do Lua spy better than Khora.

So what kind of "power" are you trying to balance? Or are we going to flat out every single parameters for frames, not just damage, but also gives every frame titania movement, loki invis, Nyx CC, Limbo rift and Rev mesmer skin so their power are on the same page +/- 10% because otherwise some frames are going to be 2500x superior than others in certain game mode? The same goes for weapons. AoE, sniper combo, incarnon, status vs crit, melee vs gun, the list goes on. They are as different as apple and orange.

The problem is, you cannot even define "power". It is a vague made up term. Simple as that. You've said over and over again for the last 10 pages and you still cannot grasp this fundamental concept, because you don't even understand this game as a whole. Otherwise you would have made the case already, even theoretically.

The only thing you have been advocating in this long discussion is "I don't like what I considered as weak guns and weak frames because I never play game modes other than DPS and killing". Many people have been telling you the fun of this game is to make different guns and frames work in different context, which is already possible and pretty much a progressing system. You just refuse to listen. Nah, MK-1 against Eidolon is possible, but not fun for me. Change it!

These are statements. Not argument. We understand your statement, it does not mean we agree with it. Thank you very much. Have a nice day.

Edited August 27 by RichardKam

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

18 minutes ago, RichardKam said:

I literally just told you the arsenal and game modes are too diverse to pick one single parameters for "balance". But no, just push up the "power" and everything will be fine.

Power? Define "power", and how to translate the power of Nyx afk-ing SP interception and mobile defense without firing one single shoot, and the power of Dante and Sevagoth nuking the entire room in exterminate, and the power of Loki and Ivara breezing through any spy mission with only 3 mods. There are many such extreme coordinates in this game and you are trying to divide them by one single denominator.

"Oh Khora is so powerful. All other frames are sxxt poor at dealing damage. Too unbalance! 2500x difference! Lazy developers!" Yeah try bringing Khora to spy and void flood and suddenly she is not as powerful as Loki and Ivara and Titania. Even a fxxking Limbo can do Lua spy better than Khora.

So what kind of "power" are you trying to balance? Or are we going to flat out every single parameters for frames, not just damage, but also gives every frame titania movement, loki invis, Nyx CC, Limbo rift and Rev mesmer skin so their power are on the same page +/- 10% because otherwise some frames are going to be 2500x superior than others in certain game mode? The same goes for weapons. AoE, sniper combo, incarnon, status vs crit, melee vs gun, the list goes on. They are as different as apple and orange.

The problem is, you cannot even define "power". It is a vague made up term. Simple as that. You've said over and over again for the last 10 pages and you still cannot grasp this fundamental concept, because you don't even understand this game as a whole. Otherwise you would have made the case already, even theoretically.

The only thing you have been advocating in this long discussion is "I don't like what I considered as weak guns and weak frames because I never play game modes other than DPS and killing". Many people have been telling you the fun of this game is to make different guns and frames work in different context, which is already possible and pretty much a progressing system. You just refuse to listen. Nah, MK-1 against Eidolon is possible, but not fun for me. Change it!

These are statements. Not argument. We understand your statement, it does not mean we agree with it. Thank you very much. Have a nice day.

 

On 2024-02-11 at 1:02 AM, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

Why are you so afraid? Why would a sandbox where Lex is only ten times as bad as Kuva Nukor instead of multiple hundreds of times as bad be so much worse for your experience? Explain why having 90% of the game's gears being garbage is fun for you and why improving that disparity- not even a perfect solution, just steps to improve them- would lessen your fun. 

 

[RichardKam]

6分钟前 , BansheeAndZephyrMarried 说:

Why are you so afraid? Why would a sandbox where Lex is only ten times as bad as Kuva Nukor instead of multiple hundreds of times as bad be so much worse for your experience? Explain why having 90% of the game's gears being garbage is fun for you and why improving that disparity- not even a perfect solution, just steps to improve them- would lessen your fun.  

 

2024/8/25 PM11点39分 , dwqrf 说:

Let's talk TFD for a minute so I can summarize what you are advocating for.

In TFD, you start the game at level 1, and make you way through the world (star chart) until you finish at level 100. From 1 to 99, you'd drop every normal and rare weapons from enemies, but they will have a level (1-99, depend on the enemy level you kill) which will result in their dps. A weapons level 77 will be able to kill enemies level 77 and under, while struggling later on. And every weapon have the same dps, except normal vs rare. There is maybe like 10 different normal weapons, and 90 rare weapons.

Fun fact, you don't need to craft or level up the weapons, as you drop them built, and the mod capacity depends on your account MR. And if you mod a weapon at level X and then drop another one (the same) at level Y, it will keep the potatoes, the formas, and the mods.

But then you reach level 100 and unlock hard mode (SP). From there, every weapon you drop is level 100, and every enemies (except boss and dungeons, being ++) will be level 100. So it doesn't matter which weapons you play, but you still may have to focus on one weapon to potatoe and forma to have a better time.

(Because of how munition works, you'd have a to choose a weapons that use the most generic munition type, unless you play one of the two most OP champ giving ammo/Infinite ammo).

But the point of the game is to grind better gear, so you'd want to farm on of the 15 ultimate (prime) weapons with amorphous (relics) with layers of rng to drop and open it. So you may be forced to main one single rare weapons to farm the ultimate(s) of your choice, but you can tryhard without.

One you get a ultimate weapon, you can go full on upgrading the weapon with formas and potatoes, mods, and (Valence) to improve its gimmick.

If every normal weapons level 100 have a base dps of 90k, every rare 100k, and every ultimate 110k, the difference isn't huge. But when base modding (with only the point from MR), reaching half the build, you may get you ultimate to 220k, and fully built to 330k. Because mods are nicely balanced. But fully formating a weapon take one week of hardcore grind.

So your base ultimate weapons which took one full clip to kill one enemy, went to kill 2 enemies with a clip with base mods from mr, and then went to kill 3 enemies with a clip while fully modded - with potatoes and 8 formas. Don't forget it's a horde shooter, but balanced.

What do you think people do ? Well, first, they completely ignore the weapons level 1-99, because, you know, who cares about base story content. But then, they also ignore the one hundred different normal and rare weapons level 100, because, who cares, you have weapons that do 5-10% more dps that you can get, and that look cool and shiny. So people eventually play all the weapons in the game only for MR, and will only use the top end weapons in endgame content. That's so weird. YOU'd think they will choose one of the 90 rares weapons which do only 5-10% less dps for the style or fun of it... But they don't, because the 15 ultimate weapons feature every top end of every categories of weapons in game, ending with 99% usage while the rest stagnate at 1%, just until players get better ones.

But you could play the others weapons if you want to be slightly slower. Spoilers alert, people are 'lazy' and want to kill as fast and as confortable as possible.

But the game is perfectly balanced exactly like you dream Warframe to be.

Is it a good game ? Nah, it feels terrible to spend a whole week farming and formating a weapon for barely any dps increase or TTK decrease. When finishing your build, you have to put magazine size and reload mods to improve your dps. It's extremely frutrasting and boring. And it's not even factoring resistance (attenuation) enemies features.

Is that what you wish for Warframe ? You can try it, it's right there, it's free. And it's perfectly balanced... As all things should be ?

btw, Lex is hit scan and Nukor is beam.

You may compare Nukor with Cycron and with Atmos, or Lex with Marelok, if you wish.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 5 heures, ConfusingEel a dit :

There's isn't plenty. There's a few. And there is little reason to go in the few that are there, oh boy 500 credits.

There is a lot of things hidden there. Often it's Quills/Voca, but also Somachords, and if you are lucky, Epic/Legendary crates. You'd know if you found them.

Il y a 5 heures, PublikDomain a dit :

It should be able to be good just being what it is.

It is. Paracyst is a decent normal status weapon. It works in normal star chart damage wise, and if you want to push it further, you have to lean in its perks. You don't want to use it in endgame as a primer, because you want it to do damage instead. That's not how the game works.

 

Il y a 5 heures, PublikDomain a dit :

Warframe has the same problem you're talking about, just slightly different.

Warframe has the same problem you're talking about, just slightly different.

other people can still use their favorite thing and not be that much behind. Though from checking the FD wiki it looks like ultimate weapons also have a perk, which other lower weapons don't get?

So no amount of stats squisching solve the issue of preferences of playing the top end gear over anything else. It just the way people do things, generally.

We have the same issue with perks in Warframe, as prime weapons have (used to) have really strong game changer passive over normal variants. In TFD, Ultimate weapons also have negative passive stats (beyond their perks abilities), which can only be neutered by doing a lot of Valence Fusion, which after a point, would become slightly bonuses. So base Ultimate weapons have more inconvient stats than regular rare weapons, to balance it out.
 

Il y a 5 heures, PublikDomain a dit :

So even if most people are boring and bland and use the same small handful of whatevers, other people can still use their favorite thing and not be that much behind.

So in TFD you will have weapons level 1-99 that nobody will ever use in endgame, focusing solely on weapons level 100 ; rare or ultimate. You, in the other hand, are trying to use a weapon level 57 (Paracyst) and try to level 100 content with it. Well, it doesn't work. So you could instead use any other top end Burst weapon, like a Prime Tiberon, or a Kuva Quartakk, which will do just fine in endgame ; and enventually, a Plague Paracyst with On-Lyne infested liches. But I guess the Plague Paracyst would also be a status weapon, and I can't be sure that it would be any stronger dps-wise than crit/slash weapon on the same power level (staying in the Burst Rifle family). But you would be able to pick it and play it nonetheless.
 

Il y a 5 heures, PublikDomain a dit :

I think there's quite a difference between "can comfortably" and "can technically". Can you technically do levelcap and Eidolon runs with MK1 weapons if you armor strip and use big buffs and support it with a primer and all the other stuff? Sure. Is it going to be as comfortable or convenient or performant as what you can do with a more powerful weapon? Nope. And you can apply all the same buffs and support and primer and armor strips and whatever to that more powerful weapon, too! And that's all the more free space to devote to making yourself stronger in other ways, be it survivability or sustainability or whatever.

Yes.

[dwqrf]

Il y a 4 heures, vixenpixel a dit :

Ohh... Is that why he said I'm smart...

Maaaan...

Adding sounds good, changing sounds bad. I'm glad we agree. :)

Don't mind him, he is just jealous I can appreciate interesting people.

At least he was useful in making me find the mute button.

[RichardKam]

2小时前 , BansheeAndZephyrMarried 说:

Why are you so afraid? Why would a sandbox where Lex is only ten times as bad as Kuva Nukor instead of multiple hundreds of times as bad be so much worse for your experience? Explain why having 90% of the game's gears being garbage is fun for you and why improving that disparity- not even a perfect solution, just steps to improve them- would lessen your fun. 

Out of curiosity I just did a rough comparison between Lex prime and 3 other semi pistols. Weapons with gimmicks and AoE and incarnon are not considered, of course.

Do I see 90% of the game's gear being garbage? No. Just take a look. I don't see "multiple hundreds of times as bad" as other weapons of the same class. The worst is lato vandal compared with magnus prime and their difference in sustained DPS is 36%, not 90% weaker as claimed by another user here.

If you check their physical damage weighting, fire rate, crit and status weighting, crit damage, reload time and magazine size, surprise, they are different, and should be modded differently.

So to answer your question, no, I don't find 90% of the game gears being garbage.

Beside, you need to set a context, like in what game mode and paired with what frame.

Unless people are trying to argue Marelok is garbage compared with Vaykor Marelok, Lex a garbage compared with Lex Prime, and Lato compared with Lato Vandal. In that case may Orokin have mercy on their souls.

[MrInubis]

Even compared to kuva nukor lex prime deals 10x the damage. Its the mechanical difference that makes nukor better. Lex doesnt have chaining and is bad for priming. I dont see the "10 times worse" in here.

Edited August 27 by kuciol

[vixenpixel]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

Don't mind him, he is just jealous I can appreciate interesting people.

At least he was useful in making me find the mute button.

I completely don't know the state of the discussion but Im on your team now. *Recruitment accepted!!*

*Beep-boop*

Edited August 27 by vixenpixel

[4thBro]

4 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

I completely don't know the state of the discussion but Im on your team now. *Recruitment accepted!!*

*Beep-boop*

Okay.

 

Well.

 

I thought you'd like to know a little about the side you've chosen. 😀

 

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Toxic.
Toxic.
Toxic.
Toxic.

 

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I'm here because you are a toxic person and your opinion is setting mankind a few steps behind, and anyone in a clear mind and with knowledge of what is Warframe is about is getting dumber with everysingle post you make.

 

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You are a random casual toxic narcisistic manipulator, spewing his ego trip on a forum about a endgame he never touched.

 

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Go ahead buddy, prove me logically that your knowledge of what Warframe is about, and its endgame, isn't based on your experience of the game. I can't wait to read how being a waiter in a restaurant or laying bricks made you a better warframe player.

 

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What are the purpose of your responses except playing the butthurt victim against so mean forum warriors ?

 

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Please, nobody will miss you ! We waited to long for you to add you ideas to the conversation, but it was another useless me post again ! I wonder how we will survive without your input.

 

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So smartasses like 4thbro come along and say "but it doesn't need to have rewards in it".

 

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(spamming this image about 35 times this thread any time I talk)

 

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I posted twice proof that you are an arrogant toxic person hating the world and thinking only his opinion matter.

Did you acknowledge it or even apologized ? Nah, you deflected, again, and ran away.

Run, little larvling. Or screech some more. Whatever, you lost.

 

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We know you hate everybody. The sad part is that you don't know everybody hates you too.

Now screech.

 

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Ho look, the idiot with his imaginary friends understood I was talking about them ! It's screeching again ! Take cover !

nobody will ever win a discussion with a sick narcissistic perverse like you.

Look ! It's screeching again. Go read articles about narcissistic perverse, you freak, maybe you'll then understand why the world hate your kind.

Wow. Just wow. Like.. what ? What ??? I mean... AI were smarter than this guy 50 years ago.

 

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Screech some more, narcissistic boy.

One of the most famous person the World with the same psychology as you is Amber Heard. Even with video tapes, records, testimony, and facts, and losing in front of judges and millions of viewers, she still thinks she is right. That's crazy, right ? You are just like her.

 

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Keep proving my point, little narcissitic perverse. Every post you make is a win for me as everybody can see I said the truth, you can't even understand anything anybody tell you if it even scratch your over inflated toxic ego. Little Amber turd.

 

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On the others hand, there is true monsters like @4thBro, which is just a parasite, spewing toxicity everywhere he goes, on life, in school, and in any online plateforme. It's not even a random speculation, as he proved again and again that he is not able to hold any polite conversation, let alone argument any constructive idea, while being evidently delusionnal (and not knowing anything about the game or the endgame). Just the thought of having normal people coming to the forums and being swarmed by his incredible display of non sense and inflated ego is sickening. There is nothing to do with this kind of individuals, except running away, as most of the people here already did, as he would relentlesly believe his own lies and keep deflecting any hard evidence of his toxicity, his shallows comment, or his lack of decency. 

I'm maybe an autistic individual driven by extreme emotions, sure, that's a fact, but those things (perverse narcissistics) which are on the others side of the spectrum will never admit being wrong, always thinks everything is too easy for them, that they are always right, and if anything goes wrong (in the game or in their life), it's always the fault of the devs, the world, as they simple can't accept they might be making a mistake. And the worst part is that they are always going to try to change the things around them to catter to their egoistic needs, because they can't be ever satisfied, feel love, enjoy things as they are, or understand basic empathy. It's scary and infuriating. I don't want to let him ruin this great game.

 

Edited August 27 by 4thBro

[Loza03]

Remember when this thread was civil?

 

Me neither.

[4thBro]

Yeah, well... Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but this fire has been directly attacking me for at least 15 pages and is trying to slide it off as innocent, maybe even deserved.

 

It is what it is, I guess.

[dwqrf]