Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[Xzorn]

20 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

back then it was about trinity/necros macro spam and saryn nuke + frost bubble (optimal). because auras didn't exist back then and I would have to constantly click on enemies (come on...). so absolutely miserable way of playing. I camped for hours back then. but we were in voice with people from France and Britain. otherwise I would never have taken part in the nonsense. especially because there were no rewards.

 

There was always that sweet spot which like I mentioned always kept taking more and more time.

We asked DE for years to just let us start at a higher level and skip that dead-zone. I stopped doing group runs pretty early on because it was too easy to break or the time investment went into the 6h+ mark. Around 2015 I had gone almost entirely solo runs which also gradually took more time. For me it was always about the level and scaling opposition. Not the time I sat in a mission so longer it took to get that sweet spot, less interested I got. Then they just removed it with scaling changes.

Last I remember having a lot of fun with group was Excavation when it came out. Back then you could have 3-4 running at once so there was strategy in optimizing the rotation gains while also dealing with the higher level enemies. Sadly it was nerf'd. I guess going through a full rotation in 6-7 mini was too much =D

[Rexis12]

The reason Warframe is easy, is because DE is absolutely S#&$ at making any kind of challenging content that doesn't revolve making the enemies bullet sponges and having the enemies deal all of your health in damage in 0.01 microseconds.

Let me remind ya'll, we just got an update that changed the DR of enemies, in general, to not have something wild to the amount of 99.99% Damage Reduction, that when reduced with the mechanics intended to interact with the DR, will reduce the DR to 99.98%.

Enemy damage goes up so high, that both the 'high skill' community accepted what was borderline an exploit for years, until DE had to make it a feature, thereby acknowledging that yes making it so that we have seconds of literal invincibility is an acceptable progression of gameplay.

Which is wild.

Do you guys understand how wild it is, that a game having constant and a consistent way to earn literal multiple seconds of invincibility is?

How about when, early on, they had to across the board give us 25% DR with the Armor Update, and the enemy scaling would still one shot us. Do you guys know what #*!%ing wild that an across the board 25% DR is in any game? Or how about when Shields were buffed to gain an across the board 50% DR.

FIFTY PERCENT.

That is Half of all incoming damage, and that S#&$ still doesn't matter in any high level gameplay.

We accept dumb S#&$ like Adaptation, which is literally 90% DR and we don't even blink an eye, because the enemy damage progresses so hard, that 90% DR, which would itself be an exploit in any other game, ends up as something you put on for any kind of builds that don't use the literal seconds of invincibility.

And don't get me started on Enemy Health and armour. We just got a rework that lowered them across the board, but this is still a game where basic enemies can reach 90% DR.

And screw it, let's say they decide to make it so that all enemies can only be hurt with head shots.

This is, probably not even an exaggeration, roughly an example of enemy movement in the game. You hit a room with Rad Procs, and every Corpus and Grineer snap to each other like Redbull Junkies.

 

And that's not even getting to how the game is a literal grind fest.

With Time Gated and RNG drops that have literally no pity to them, only really added in nowadays when it should've been in the game from the start. Do ya'll remember the genuine hell that was Necramechs, and you want to make every mission harder, thus take even longer, and make the grind even more longer and tedious?

Screw that, I'm already on my 20th run for a single Aeolak Barrel, and I'm #*!%ing sick of Void Flood. Just as how I got sick of Disruption when I was farming for Gauss.

[TheArmchairThinker]

How is taking cover badass compared to shrugging off damage and blasting enemies dead before they realize they're dead?

[TheArmchairThinker]

17 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

The thing we miss most about them is having to coordinate with the team

Destiny has this with their dual destiny mission for exotic class item and boy, what a popcorn consuming meltdown it is

Besides, how do they want us to coordinate? Because first thing to do is not requiring another player just to play it or it will be no different than dual destiny

[TheArmchairThinker]

36 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

The reason Warframe is easy, is because DE is absolutely S#&$ at making any kind of challenging content that doesn't revolve making the enemies bullet sponges and having the enemies deal all of your health in damage in 0.01 microseconds.

Isn't that basically what other games do? Making enemies sponge while they can wipe your health really fast and pretty much a thing since the beginning of the time so what challenge? It's just putting enemies beyond your highest power before you bring it to an even ground with buffs and debuffs

[Xylena_Lazarow]

19 hours ago, Kaiga said:

If this game had even a modicum of difficulty at higher levels, it would be capable of all that combat depth, which is what's being advertised, obviously.

I appreciate someone else recognizing that even moderate challenge is enough for Warframe. There's a big difference between easy and trivial. It doesn't need to be Souls, but you need to make the player engage with game mechanics at some point, beyond early game you can just ignore the entire reworked EHP and element system even on SP, easier than ever for one build and strat to rule them all, hilarious that we've circled back to the Wukong melee AoE spam they tried so hard to nerf.

[PublikDomain]

1 minute ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Besides, how do they want us to coordinate? Because first thing to do is not requiring another player just to play it or it will be no different than dual destiny

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this? Cooperative content is, kinda by its very definition, cooperative. Other players are required. You can't really cooperate with yourself.

[MrInubis]

And how the hell do you think you can balance that so most frames have this challenge? The game is simply to big for that. You make enemies tanky AF? I will just bring Octavia and be invisible all the time. You make them deal tons of dmg? I will bring Revenant or Nyx that are simply immortal etc. Do you want to make 3 frames and 3 weapons being viable or what? Because if you make it good enough for 15 weapons than top 5 will just breeze through. 

Edited August 3 by kuciol

[Rexis12]

11 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Isn't that basically what other games do? Making enemies sponge while they can wipe your health really fast and pretty much a thing since the beginning of the time so what challenge? It's just putting enemies beyond your highest power before you bring it to an even ground with buffs and debuffs

Sure, but more often than not most good games save those heavy bullet sponges and one shots for special units.

Just before the whole Armour Rework a Basic Grineer Lancer had half of the EHP of an Acolyte. 

That is the equivalent of a Common Infected having half the Health of a goddamn Tank in L4D. 

All the whole still having the damage scaling to one shot you. 

Which is the equivalent of that Common Infected having the insta kill abilit of a Witch. 

[Fallopia]

18 hours ago, Zahnrad said:

Take Jade Eximus for instance, it was a change that effected core gameplay all across Warframe and completely disrupted the casual feel the game was known for.

And people who said "just move out of the way lmao" I feel are either intentionally being disingenous or are completely uncaring as to why people didn't like their inclusion.

Whether you like them or hate them, I think we can all agree it is something that changes gameplay and that's why a lot of people didn't like it.

I replayed The War Within mission yesterday (to take some screenshots). And ques what, there is couple of Jade eximus guys at Kuva fortress part of quest. That kinda deadly if you fresh player.

[Zahnrad]

1 minute ago, Fallopia said:

I replayed The War Within mission yesterday (to take some screenshots). And ques what, there is couple of Jade eximus guys at Kuva fortress part of quest. That kinda deadly if you fresh player.

There's Jade Eximus everywhere. It seems (or at least feels like) DE decided to add it to every single enemy type that has an Eximus variant.

I've even seen them as the Grineer Regulators in Spy missions. They're an enemy type that exists in all parts of the game that enables Eximus units.

[TheArmchairThinker]

11 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this? Cooperative content is, kinda by its very definition, cooperative. Other players are required. You can't really cooperate with yourself.

And that's where I find payday as an ideal line. Cooperative is encouraged for better efficiency and possibly better rewards where it's still possible solo but harder to pull off, not outright "play together or GTFO" like destiny does and boy, massive number drop, team lead noped out and another 220 employees being laid off

[Rexis12]

Eximus is another thing, Overguard aside, there's no real counter play to seeing them use their abilities. 

 

I have a post that showed that even if you CC'd a Blitz Eximus mid slam charge, they can still fire a wave. Hell I have a video where even if you keep them in permastun with Impact Procs, they can still charge and fire away. 

Making this:

13 hours ago, Voltage said:

not moment to moment gameplay or combat

An absolutely blind take. 

 

Hell remember when they initially wanted to have Eximus units have weak spots just to make them vulnerable to damage, and the #*!%ing DEVS THEMSELVES couldn't even do it. It took over a minute for Reb, the one that consistently plays the game, to take down 1, singular, enemy. 

Why? 

Because it was so spazz happy and move around so much, which is something that Warframe's enemies tend to freakin do.

So yeah, interact with the game to game mechanics, and watch as the game punishes you for it. 

 

[PublikDomain]

25 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Cooperative is encouraged for better efficiency and possibly better rewards where it's still possible solo but harder to pull off, not outright "play together or GTFO" like destiny does

I don't really think "solo" and "raids" are compatible ideas. It's just not the point of the content. Old Raids could be done without a full 8-man party, but you still needed a minimum amount because the cooperative mechanics required multiple people cooperating. You can't cooperate by yourself.

[Voltage]

33 minutes ago, Rexis12 said:

An absolutely blind take. 

Why are you quoting this little bit as a blind take?

The most effective way to play the vast majority of the game is AoE spam after mastering parkour, movement, and tileset muscle memory/memorization (when waypoints go to specific spots on screen, you know which door it's leading towards). Almost everything to overcome within missions is solved through your arsenal choices. We've been shifting into speed-nuking tiles of enemies within new content for a very long time now.

"Moment to moment gameplay" for me is something like Void Cascade, Disruption, Eidolons, Profit-Taker, Railjack 1.0, or Trials. I'm not saying the game should try to behave like you're playing Elden Ring, but mechanics where you're rewarded for your timing and skill within that specific mission are present in Warframe and even though rare, it's rewarding when you do it proficiently. For me, that's why I mostly play Nova Prime. Effective usage of Wormhole is an extremely rewarding experience, especially when you're whizzing past others as they take Gauss/Volt/Titania/etc.

Edited August 3 by Voltage

[4thBro]

20 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Nukes are boring, but people play them because the grind is even more boring. I don't notice nearly as much nuking in the higher-level missions, though.

What the hell is a higher level mission that isn't being nuked?

 

The highest starting level Steel Path is only 200-something.

 

The quickest way to 1000+ enemies is Duviri, and they also get nuked (even without decrees).

 

What content are you playing that doesn't get nuked???

I mean, granted, I'm aware that I'm MR16 and tend to be doing 90%+ of the damage on any given mission while people with maxed MR are running around like headless chickens -- aka, most people are terrible.

But even still... Agreed, this game is too easy. And when I suggest a Greater Rift mode, people say "no, don't add that, because I wouldn't play it".

 

This game is held back by its playerbase.

----

Skimming through the thread, there's a lot of what I like to call "Neckbeard Analysis" going on.

Which means a lot of overanalysis and trying to sound smart.

When all we need to do is shut the hell up and add good things into the game. Nobody cares about this Neckbeard Analysis about, "Oh but what IS a video game?" or, "You see, it's not PROFITABLE because history shows..."

 

Just shut up and do the good thing. If some people like it, and it doesn't get in the way of anyone that doesn't, just shut up and do it.

Holy crap I'm so tired of all this nonsensical fluff.

Edited August 3 by 4thBro

[Grizzlpaw]

This is why I play exclusively on Steel Path and do most content solo. 

I do relics in squads for the extra rolls. And I do Duviri in squads because Drifter combat is the singular thing I hate most in this game and I want to get it over with as fast as possible. 

Eidolon hunts I do in squads because you only have so much time to do them and I want to squeeze in as many runs as possible. 

Everything else I do solo. Playing with Nukers isn't fun. 

 

 

Edited August 3 by Grizzlpaw

[4thBro]

14 minutes ago, Grizzlpaw said:

Archon hunts I do in squads because you only have so much time to do them and I want to squeeze in as many runs as possible

You have a week to do them. I don't get this one.

It makes it sound like you're using these Nuke Players for their efficiency, to get your run done, then going back to shunning them out of your gameplay.

 

I also don't get the Duviri one, and it kinda sounds the same, but I'm gonna focus on one thing at a time for now.

[Grizzlpaw]

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

You have a week to do them. I don't get this one.

It makes it sound like you're using these Nuke Players for their efficiency, to get your run done, then going back to shunning them out of your gameplay.

 

I also don't get the Duviri one, and it kinda sounds the same, but I'm gonna focus on one thing at a time for now.

Mistype. Meant to type Eidolon hunt. Since the Cetus night cycle only lasts 45 minutes. If the timing for these weren't so strict I'd gladly solo these. 

While I do Duviri in squads (I don't enjoy it). I prefer to do the Circuit solo even though it's slower. If you could earn Pathos Clamps in the circuit, that would be fantastic. Then I could only go to duviri to farm plants, do the maw and leave. 

Relic missions are tedious, but I'd still gladly do them solo if the game weren't punishing you for doing so. If, for example, you had a higher chance of rolling a rare when cracking relics solo, I'd gladly do that. (I know that doing this would remove the need to radshare so it's unlikely to happen, but this is an ideal world). 

To be clear. I don't shun players for nuking. I'm not going to go into a mission and say "can you stop nuking pls". It's a horde shooter, nuking is the most efficient way to play. In most cases, I take my Rhino into the mission and give the nukers Roar + Nourish buffs so they can nuke even more efficiently. It's not fun, but it allows me to help the squad even when I have nothing to shoot. 

Blame the game not the players. 

 

Edited August 3 by Grizzlpaw

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, Grizzlpaw said:

Mistype. Meant to type Eidolon hunt. Since the Cetus night cycle only lasts 45 minutes. If the timing for these weren't so strict I'd gladly solo these. 

While I do Duviri in squads (I don't enjoy it). I prefer to do the Circuit solo even though it's slower. If you could earn Pathos Clamps in the circuit, that would be fantastic. Then I could only go to duviri to farm plants, do the maw and leave. 

Relic missions are tedious, but I'd still gladly do them solo if the game weren't punishing you for doing so. If, for example, you had a higher chance of rolling a rare when cracking relics solo, I'd gladly do that. (I know that doing this would remove the need to radshare so it's unlikely to happen, but this is an ideal world). 

To be clear. I don't shun players for nuking. I'm not going to go into a mission and say "can you stop nuking pls". It's a horde shooter, nuking is the most efficient way to play. In most cases, I take my Rhino into the mission and give the nukers Roar + Nourish buffs so they can nuke even more efficiently. It's not fun, but it allows me to help the squad even when I have nothing to shoot. 

Blame the game not the players. 

 

For you it is not fun, for me its the main attraction of the game. This and finding new, flashy ways to do it.

[TennoPain]

IMO its like real life everybody can hop in and have life (AKA EXIST)  but you will never ever have everything so that being said its up to you to tell yourself why do you play it 

also its not easy it is if u play 5-20 waves try going it for hours you will understand its not 

That being said Veterans do need high content just make nods for us that start with super high lvls ? perhaps ? or not ? 

PROBLEM is you have 2 version of of players people : veterans and new ppl that want everything super fast and NOW (even some of my IRL friends ) and balancing that could be wrong aproach perhaps we just need content for both old and new but DE know that and in future i think they will figgure it out. Why I think well they did it in past so history kinda rimes and they need to do something about it at one point. 

[Grizzlpaw]

19 minutes ago, kuciol said:

For you it is not fun, for me its the main attraction of the game. This and finding new, flashy ways to do it.

More power to you. Literally, if we ever cross paths in squads, I'll be sure to buff you up so you can nuke even harder. 

[4thBro]

I honestly think you're better off playing Trinity to make people not die, and have infinite energy, than be giving people damage.

 

Although, honestly, both are kinda moot...

[Grizzlpaw]

2 hours ago, 4thBro said:

I honestly think you're better off playing Trinity to make people not die, and have infinite energy, than be giving people damage.

 

Although, honestly, both are kinda moot...

I just revive my squadmates if they go down. Unless they end up so far away that I can't get to them in time. 

I find that Roar buffs are valuable in this meta because of how Roar interacts with Thermal Sunder. For some reason roar triple dips with thermal sunder and causes its damage to ramp up to the moon. And I can find a sunder user in like... 40% of my squads. 

[Quest]

still think the game is too hard to be honest

Edited August 4 by Quest