Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[Tiltskillet]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Warframe is exclusively about killing large numbers of enemies.

It seems like you're using a different definition of "exclusively" than I would. :/

I use and depend on single target weapons in most content.  More often than not without AoE and and AoE hacks like ability damage, AoE status, or grouping.  I do use PT a lot though--it's really hard for me to regard that as  taking away from the point.  

Yeah, I don't do Netracells, EDA, or long survivals without AoE.  But a quick Survival Incursion just using Exergis?  Oh yes.  A conventional shotgun like Exergis does have it tougher in these than many other ST weapons, but still easier than Veldt, Prisma Grinlok, or Vectis.

It's definitely got big downsides, especially if one is worried about efficiency or farming.  Or just wants to keep things as chill as possible.  But usually my primary concern is having a good time in most missions with ST weapons without failing, and I find Warframe is pretty forgiving of that.

45 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I think ultimately it's pretty telling that there are four incarnon shotguns, and only one of them is still a shotgun when you're in Incarnon mode. And that's the Bronco. And the only one that becomes a shotgun of any description is the Soma, which can have such a tight spread it's functionally not a shotgun at all.

If innate multishot and spread are your criteria, Incarnon Boltor becomes one too.

 

[PublikDomain]

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

Because he was never meant to be that.

"Soul Punch forces the target's soul out of its body, turning it into a deadly projectile damaging all in its path."
-Digital Extremes, 2013

🤔

"A blow so powerful, it turns the enemy's very soul into a deadly projectile, damaging all in its path. Enemies that survive the blow are Marked for Harvest and become one of Nekros' Shadows of the Dead if killed while marked."
-https://www.warframe.com/game/warframes/nekros

🤔🤔🤔

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

Do you balance TTK of lets say 10s for Chroma or Trinity?

Neither. You balance things in a neutral setting. Duh? Why would you throw in some external factor?

Same with balancing Chroma. All the frames that "make damage go uppies" should "make damage go uppies" just about as good as the rest. That's why Roar and Eclipse and all the others give about the same buffs. 1.5-2x ish. And so you can use Roar or Eclipse or Nourish or any of the Elemental squad buff mods you like. Which is good.

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

Weapon buff is Chromas trademark, you want to take that away from him and make them pretty much irrelevant. You will make it to weak and nobody will play him.

No, but you're free to pretend whatever you want to hear. Chroma will still have his identity. And he'll even have more of an identity! He could exist for more than his two brainless upkeep abilities. You know, like Spectral Scream and Effigy, you know, two of his signature abilities that only deal crappy damage. How many Chromas do you see placing Effigy nowadays? How many are using Spectral Scream to Godzilla-breath their enemies? None. "Oh buh buh Effigy exists for boosting Credit drops the damage is just a meme buh buh" or whatever.

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

But its incremental upgraded, you get that step by step. There is no power spike like going from vaykor hek to phenmor.

But the mods are doing all the work? Switching from a built Vaykor Hek to a built Phenmor is not a 200x difference.

17 hours ago, kuciol said:

Ophanim eyes do dmg, should they kill? What about Vaubans orbs? Maybe Calibans summons too?

Yes. It really isn't complicated.

Also Caliban is getting buffed. In like... a week. You know that, right? His summons are part of that.

Edited August 28 by PublikDomain

[dwqrf]

Il y a 2 heures, Loza03 a dit :

'You're going to have problems horde killing with it'.

I think you don't need to restrict the idea of your arsenal that much. You can totally use a shotgun for mono targets, and have aoe elsewhere. I mean, we have 3 weapon slot ; having 3 aoe weapons seems redondant, so is having 3 mono target weapons.

[dwqrf]

il y a 7 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

How many are using Spectral Scream to Godzilla-breath their enemies? None. "Oh buh buh Effigy exists for boosting Credit drops the damage is just a meme buh buh" or whatever.

Spectral Scream is actually a really good status spreader and it's allowing you to change element and Effigy is a really good AoE CC. Both saved my life many times.

Edited August 28 by dwqrf

[4thBro]

Spectral Scream is how I would summarize all of your posts.

[dwqrf]

il y a 21 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

"Soul Punch forces the target's soul out of its body, turning it into a deadly projectile damaging all in its path."
-Digital Extremes, 2013

🤔

"A blow so powerful, it turns the enemy's very soul into a deadly projectile, damaging all in its path. Enemies that survive the blow are Marked for Harvest and become one of Nekros' Shadows of the Dead if killed while marked."

Come on bro, you know that's just called Marketing.
 

il y a 22 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Also Caliban is getting buffed. In like... a week. You know that, right? His summons are part of that.

Somehow, I allow myself to doubt that. Of course, the summons are supposed to cast the 4 in the same direction and in the same time as you ; But Caliban never been a dps/caster frame, he is more like a tank/weapon plateforme. It won't matter if they do damage. That's not the point. And DE can't buff a 100% defense strip to do more than 100% defense strip. So Caliban rework will just add confort, cast speed, remove summons hitbox (...) maybe a slightly higher aoe or duration, but nothing really valuable as "DPS". I suppose.
Because as I think, again, Caliban is already so wtrong they never been able to give him augments without making way too strong (except for his 1). But that's another subject...

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

I'll admit I still need to test out Clip Delegation properly

It's pretty good. Got a pure Cold Sobek with Chip Delegation and ooh it's nice.

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Spectral Scream is actually a really good status spreader and it's allowing you to change element and Effigy is a really good AoE CC. Both saved my life many times.

And it could be really good for other things, too. Could have saved your life in many other ways. Those two features (guaranteed proc and switching elements) were also, drum roll please...! Added 5 years after his release. Because Spectral Scream was terrible and useless for 5 years. And now it's less terrible. Which is good! DE did the kinds of things I'm saying they should be doing (making bad things less bad), and you're simultaneously praising those changes but also saying those changes aren't necessary?

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PublikDomain a dit :

you're simultaneously praising those changes but also saying those changes aren't necessary?

Yes, I praise the changes that happened, because I can accept the state of the game now and enjoy it as it is now. But you are fighting tooth and nails for a insane amount ot change, and those are just theories and speculations.

Like Grendel rework ; he was my favorite frame by far ; but too hard to play for many people having trouble with his energy economy, way too weak if you didn't build him right. But his was insanely op with the right build. So they stats-squished him, making him more accessible for bad builds, but nerfed him hard too for perfect endgame builds. And that was really sad. And I'm afraid they'll do that to Caliban too.

Because you said it yourself, stats-squish works both way. It doesn't matter if it's dps up or ttk down, or dmg vs ehp reduction or lenghtening. In the end, some fun things now aren't going to work anymore, for the sake of making tutorial and normal star chart weapons work better. I don't agree.

[PublikDomain]

5 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Come on bro, you know that's just called Marketing.

Hey now, y'all the ones bringing up his "theme". That's literally the same marketing. But if I say it it doesn't count? lol

Just now, dwqrf said:

That's not the point.

Now, you play Caliban more than most so maybe you could fill us in. Fusion Strike deals damage. Right? It's a damage-dealing ability. That's like, half of the ability. It deals 5,000 damage and then explodes for another 5,000 damage. If you have 200% Strength it also fully strips Armor. So it's what, just an Armor-stripping ability? Is that it? An inferior skin of Tharros Strike?

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

So it's what, just an Armor-stripping ability? Is that it? An inferior skin of Tharros Strike?

Cannot be inferior to Tharros strike as it's a aoe, lingering ability, that can be used to preshot enemies as they walk through or spawn inside of it (acolytes/liches) ; that is casted on your reticule target and not using you as center point, that makes a vortex AND some damage you can completely ignore. Edit : And I don't even think there is a limit of how many lingering aoe you can have a the same time.

Don't compare that sub ability as Tharros strike to the mighty best defense strip of the game.
 

Edited August 28 by dwqrf

[PublikDomain]

33 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Cannot be inferior to Tharros strike as it's a aoe, lingering ability, that can be used to preshot enemies as they walk through or spawn inside of it (acolytes/liches) ; that is casted on your reticule target and not using you as center point, that makes a vortex AND some damage you can completely ignore.

Hey now, y'all the ones acting like the damage doesn't matter. "Caliban never been a dps/caster frame" after all. And like you yourself said, "DE can't buff a 100% defense strip to do more than 100% defense strip". So it lingers, ok? It's not stripping more than 100% of defenses anyways. Tharros Strike is an AoE too, can strip the same enemies by the same amount, heals, and costs way less energy. And also deals damage which y'all seem to think is just there for a laugh.

39 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Yes, I praise the changes that happened, because I can accept the state of the game now and enjoy it as it is now.

But those changes wouldn't have happened if you applied the same ideas you share now.

If we went back in time 5 years would you be saying the same things you're saying now? Chroma is fine the way he is, he's a "weapon platform", you don't need to force being a status-spreader on him, because I can accept the state of Chroma now and enjoy him as he is now. Etc. Etc.

39 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

In the end, some fun things now aren't going to work anymore

But they will! There's no reason anything fun needs to go anywhere. You've just carried in your emotional baggage and have already made up your mind that anything I say is bad no matter what it is I say. Even if I show you examples that mathematically disprove what you're saying. Even if I quote the developers saying the same things I am. Even if I say literally the same things you're praising.

And despite what you've said about how people should "reconsider their own viewpoints for bias" or whatever, all you've done is the opposite. You've dug your heels in and made things up and heard what you want to hear and jumped to your conclusion without giving it any thought. You've convinced yourself that I'm some horrible boogieman that wants to take your fun away, when I repeatedly say and show the opposite, while you yourself say exactly what you accuse me of saying: that my fun shouldn't be allowed to work.

Like, I'm sitting here, saying over and over and over again:

Everything should be fun.

But somehow you read "everything should be fun" and get "fun things won't work anymore". How have you gotten there? And then you make a big stink about how your fun things won't be fun anymore, a lie you've invented, while in the exact same breath telling me my fun things should be allowed to be fun!

Edited August 29 by PublikDomain

[dwqrf]

il y a 18 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

You've convinced yourself that I'm some horrible boogieman that wants to take your fun away, when I repeatedly say and show the opposite, while you yourself say exactly what you accuse me of saying: that my fun shouldn't be allowed to work.

But your idea of fun doesn't exist. It's an illusion, a fantasy, some mathematically ridden dream. It's not reality. All you take about is damage, damage and damage, and you don't see the rest, the context, the whole progression. Caliban's ultimate is a great ultimate, it has this whoomp making a vortex and stripping and having a fallout field that has a long impact on the game. Tharros strike is just a classic shield bash, having a impact now, and that's it. You don't consider all the effects of the spell, just the damage, damage, and damage part.
 

il y a 18 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

But those changes wouldn't have happened if you applied the same ideas you share now.

If we went back in time 5 years would you be saying the same things you're saying now? Chroma is fine the way he is, he's a "weapon platform", you don't need to force being a status-spreader on him, because I can accept the state of Chroma now and enjoy him as he is now. Etc. Etc.

Nor me, nor you, dictate the future of the game and what has to changes and why. DE has its own metric about how to buff and how to nerf the few things that breaks the game. They use sometimes popularity to check what's overplayed, and sometimes, act on it with relevant changes to either make it more or less confortable without always changing its damage. As aoe munitions nerf, and so much more. I liked Chroma before, because he had three powerfull spells (for me) and one useless ; so when they were forced to remake him to ensure eidolons could live a little bit longer, they nerfed some part of him but buffed others, which was a acceptable trade off. But that was a necessary trade off, not a flattening.

They don't balance their game only with stats squishing, in fact, they try to avoid it as much as possible because people go reeeeeeee everytime you change the big number on the screen. So they fiddle with other things.

DE doesn't need to balance the game, just cut out the things that grow out and beyond of the meta they try to crystalize. Now people abuse level cap with invisibility, then we can assume a invisibility nerf coming somedays, but not by changing the spell, but by adding content where it break, or where enemies can sniff players out. Now Torid is played by too many people ; that's fine, it's a top end Incarnon weapon. And when Plague Torid will come, the incarnon stats will be worst than the regular Torid, and riven disposition will flatten em both. And if they need to change it, it's going to be ammo, incarnon charge, beam lenght, or beam bounce, way before the damage component.

I agree with you that some things should change, somehow, somedays. But this whole-game stats-squish thing ? Nah bro. I don't think that's good for the game. You act like an extremist politician fighting for change ensuring all of us that change is good. How do you know ?

Edited August 29 by dwqrf

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

It seems like you're using a different definition of "exclusively" than I would. :/

I mean, how often is there a mission that doesn't have a  bunch of adds? Off the top of my head, Eidolons maybe, some of the really early game bosses. 

It's either that, or you're better off ignoring fights altogether.

Exclusive might have been the wrong word in retrospect, but it's still the majority by a wide margin, and increasingly so.

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

I use and depend on single target weapons in most content.  More often than not without AoE and and AoE hacks like ability damage, AoE status, or grouping.  I do use PT a lot though--it's really hard for me to regard that as  taking away from the point.  

Same here. And Punch Through is by all means a big damage boost when it counts (it feels great too), but the fact does remain that it's a poor mans AoE due to its inconsistency.

2 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Yeah, I don't do Netracells, EDA, or long survivals without AoE.  But a quick Survival Incursion just using Exergis?  Oh yes.  A conventional shotgun like Exergis does have it tougher in these than many other ST weapons, but still easier than Veldt, Prisma Grinlok, or Vectis.

It's definitely got big downsides, especially if one is worried about efficiency or farming.  Or just wants to keep things as chill as possible.  But usually my primary concern is having a good time in most missions with ST weapons without failing, and I find Warframe is pretty forgiving of that.

And that sucks, right?

Like, your preferred most enjoyable way to play isn't useful in the most recent content. Not like a single weapon or build, but the fundamental playstyle itself encompassing a considerable chunk of the game's available customisation options. Several entire classes of weapon. They're just not good enough. If you want to relax or grind new stuff, again, it's ineffective for doing that. The game might be forgiving when you're just having a go at it, and that is certainly an admirable quality, but if you want to engage with the game's systems, especially the new systems, you're effectively being encouraged to not have fun.

[PublikDomain]

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

But your idea of fun doesn't exist.

And yet there it is in EDA, staring me right in my face. It's right there! I've been playing it since April!

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Nor me, nor you, dictate the future of the game and what has to changes and why.

And yet here you are.

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

They don't balance their game only with stats squishing, in fact, they try to avoid it as much as possible because people go reeeeeeee everytime you change the big number on the screen. So they fiddle with other things.

And those "other things" are all still stat-squishes! That's literally what Damage Attenuation does. It's a mathematical stat-squish that squishes top damage down to a soft cap. That's what gear RNG does. It disrupts player builds to stat-squish them to an average. That's what forced mechanics like requiring the Operator or an Archgun does. It stat-squishes players into a smaller set of items with less range in power. That's what Incarnons do. They stat-squish bad weapons upwards towards the top, so much so they can make ancient garbage no one ever even thought to use anymore like the Torid into a top-tier weapon. That's what Rivens are supposed to do. They give more power to weaker weapons to squish them upwards more than stronger weapons. That's what making every player play Teshin or Kahl or the Drifter or Arthur in quests does. It squishes players to a single point. That's what frame reworks do. They squish bad frames upwards by giving them new stats and abilities. These are all stat-squishes.

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

DE doesn't need to balance the game, just cut out the things that grow out and beyond of the meta they try to crystalize. Now people abuse level cap with invisibility, then we can assume a invisibility nerf coming somedays, but not by changing the spell, but by adding content where it break, or where enemies can sniff players out. Now Torid is played by too many people ; that's fine, it's a top end Incarnon weapon. And when Plague Torid will come, the incarnon stats will be worst than the regular Torid, and riven disposition will flatten em both. And if they need to change it, it's going to be ammo, incarnon charge, beam lenght, or beam bounce, way before the damage component.

And all of that is balancing the game!

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

How do you know ?

Because I've played it. All the specific changes I like to advocate for are testable ingame today. And I've tested them. And they work. And I can prove they work with simple mathematics. And simple examples.

Going from this:

To this:

That is a stat-squish! It could be a squish by 2.5x. It could be a squish by 2,500x. And it changes nothing.

Edited August 29 by PublikDomain

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PublikDomain a dit :

And yet here you are.

Of course, here I am, because you are trying to impose your idea of fun on other.
 

il y a 2 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

And those "other things" are all still stat-squishes!

And all of that is balancing the game!

No, that's not damage stats-squish. It's taking into account context and a different metric that you refuse to see.
 

il y a 4 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Because I've played it. All the specific changes I like to advocate for are testable ingame today. And I've tested them. And they work. And I can prove they work with simple mathematics. And simple examples.

You don't even want to try TFD to see the big picture of your idea realized. You only pick a couple of examples that fit you. You can compare a Lato one-shooting to another Lato one-shooting, but again, you are missing the big picture and the context.
 

il y a 5 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

And it changes nothing.

So if you idea is to change nothing... What's your point ?

[Loza03]

51 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Somehow, I allow myself to doubt that. Of course, the summons are supposed to cast the 4 in the same direction and in the same time as you ; But Caliban never been a dps/caster frame, he is more like a tank/weapon plateforme. It won't matter if they do damage. That's not the point. And DE can't buff a 100% defense strip to do more than 100% defense strip.

Hang on just a sec.

Let's examine Caliban's abilities removed from the context of numbers for a second, and just examine what they do, and how they'd be perceived to a lay-person.

 

His 1: Razor Gyre has him spin around and deal damage to everything he touches, and that's about it. It has a dash but the effective cast time means that it'd be impractical to use it as a mobility tool.

His 2: Sentient Wrath. Right out the gate, that's a name that suggests destruction. And in terms of its visual effect, Caliban slams onto the ground, releasing a shockwave that sends his enemies flying in all directions? That's a Sauron! That's what Sauron does at the start of the Lord of the Rings films! That's like the definition of an aggressive attacking force!

His 3: Lethal Progeny. Obviously the name, again - suggests danger. And yeah, one would probably expect summoned monsters to do some damage! That's how it works in most games or stories. And on closer inspection they also heal the wielder. Pretty classic.

His 4: Fusion Strike. The name itself, once again. Fusion. As in. Fusion bomb or a nuclear reactor! Some of the most dangerous things we as a species have ever created. Everyone knows what that suggests. And what does it do? Shoot out three big ass lasers which he sweeps across the battlefield which ends in a giant explosion. 

 

If you were to show people these abilities out of the context that powers deal pitiful damage except in very particular circumstances, pretty much anyone would agree that this is character who does tons of damage. His powers are almost exclusively for attacking things.

In other words, if it was never the point for Caliban to be able to do damage with his powers, then that would suggest that DE have done a bad job communicating what this frame is supposed to do.

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, Loza03 a dit :

In other words, if it was never the point for Caliban to be able to do damage with his powers, then that would suggest that DE have done a bad job communicating what this frame is supposed to do.

That's called Marketing. You know, the thing were you try to sell stuff to people. Funny thing, people like damage in video games. Who would have thought you'd try to push your product forward with popular tag and descriptions.

Is that truly irrelevant to Caliban's abilities ? Not really, as 1 can scale, 2 is a multiplicative damage-taken debuff from all sources, 3 deal decent damage anywhere in the star chart and can be buffed from many sources, and when they don't deal damage anymore, they are used for aggro and shield generation more than anything, and 4 is another layer of potential damage due to defense strip, it's either multiplying damage on grineer, or removing a huge chunck of the total health bar of corpus.

You are trying so hard.

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

9 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Let's examine Caliban's abilities

and that is how waframe game held back actually easy are.
Sentient fun frame. 

[PublikDomain]

31 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

because you are trying to impose your idea of fun on other.

There you are again, lying.

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Like, I'm sitting here, saying over and over and over again:

Everything should be fun.

"Everything" includes you, too. Your idea of fun should be just as viable and accessible as mine. The only one trying to impose anything is you, who doesn't want me to have fun. I want both of us to have fun, you only want it for yourself.

31 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

No, that's not damage stats-squish. It's taking into account context and a different metric that you refuse to see.

It's the same thing. They are just squishing that "different metric" instead.

31 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You don't even want to try TFD to see the big picture of your idea realized.

Correct, because I don't really care for this:

Spoiler

It's just not my thing. Sorry? Though you've also explained several things about TLD that sound like the opposite of what I'm suggesting so I don't know why you'd think I'd approve?

31 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

You can compare a Lato one-shooting to another Lato one-shooting, but again, you are missing the big picture and the context.

If you need "context" to tell the difference then there is no difference. I could give you whatever "context" you wanted to hear and you'd have no way to tell if I was telling the truth. The "context" matters that little.

31 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

So if you idea is to change nothing... What's your point ?

Because everything else changes. You're still one-shotting your bland enemies with your same bland meta guns throughout most of the game, so nothing about that "power fantasy" has changed. You're ok, you're fine, it'll be alright. Your fun hasn't gone anywhere. It's right where it was.

What's changed is now you're able to have fun with more things. You can fight and survive and play and progress in more ways. You could mount a turret. You could strategically shoot an explosive barrel. You could use Spectral Scream or Fusion Strike or Tharros Strike. You could have DPS Trinity and support Chroma and tank Ivara. You could use your Operator's damage-dealing abilities to... well you could have used them if they weren't so pathetic DE hadn't already removed them from the game. But you could use the Sirocco. You could steal a Dargyn. You could kill someone by launching your K-Drive or by trampling them with your Kaithe or by running them over with your future Atomicycle. You could hop in your Elytron and use Bloomer or Warhead. You could survive with stealth, or with armor, or with an ability, or with Shields. And it'd all just work.

Also - in case you weren't aware - Loza and I are different people. We just have the same profile icon. I'm not sure if you confused him with me from your last reply to him but I wanted to make sure anyways.

Edited August 29 by PublikDomain
Just gonna spoiler those 🍑s

[Tiltskillet]

33 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

And that sucks, right?

It's not ideal, but "that sucks" is again far too strong a phrase for me to agree. After all, the big picture is that ST weapons are still keeping me very entertained in this game  right now.  And after 7 years.   

I don't know...I think we might be on close to the same page.  I just thought initially you were regarding the use of conventional shotguns in this game as impossible, and that you were sad about it, when my opinion is that it's challenging and sometimes restricting...but very much possible.  But I think I just misunderstood you.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, PublikDomain a dit :

There you are again, lying.

"Everything" includes you, too. Your idea of fun should be just as viable and accessible as mine. The only one trying to impose anything is you, who doesn't want me to have fun. I want both of us to have fun, you only want it for yourself.

I'm not lying. You are trying to impose your idea of fun on other. Thing is, I do have fun with warframe now. And it seems like you don't. If you did, you wouldn't make 23879 gazillions projects of how to change the game to become another type of fun designed by you, for you. How do you suppose your imaginary result would be enjoyed by people like me ? See, I have a perfect example of something fun for me now : the game as is it now. But you want to change it. It's not me stopping you from having fun. It's yourself.
 

il y a 5 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Correct, because I don't really care for this:

Have you tried checking if she does balanced damage ?
 

il y a 5 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

If you need "context" to tell the difference then there is no difference. I could give you whatever "context" you wanted to hear and you'd have no way to tell if I was telling the truth. The "context" matters that little.

Yes, I know you believe context doesn't matter. But it does. It fact, that's the whole point of the whole balance of the game.
 

il y a 10 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

You could mount a turret. You could strategically shoot an explosive barrel. You could use Spectral Scream or Fusion Strike or Tharros Strike. You could have DPS Trinity and support Chroma and tank Ivara. You could use your Operator's damage-dealing abilities to... [...] you could use the Sirocco. You could steal a Dargyn. You could kill someone by launching your K-Drive or by trampling them with your Kaithe or by running them over with your future Atomicycle. You could hop in your Elytron and use Bloomer or Warhead. You could survive with stealth, or with armor, or with an ability, or with Shields. And it'd all just work.

And it does work. In the right context. Do you know people average 50-150h playing Warframe ? They do all these things, and they have fun doing so, because in the right context, it works just fine. They even kill stuff with Paracyst.
 

il y a 7 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

What's changed is now you're able to have fun with more things. You can fight and survive and play and progress in more ways.

Or maybe I'm going to have fun with less things. Maybe i'm going to fight and survive and play and progress in less ways.
 

il y a 8 minutes, PublikDomain a dit :

Also - in case you weren't aware - Loza and I are different people. We just have the same profile icon. I'm not sure if you confused him with me from your last reply to him but I wanted to make sure anyways.

Ha sorry, I thought you were 4thbro for a minute. I'm colorblind, you see. (I don't).

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , dwqrf 说:

But your idea of fun doesn't exist. It's an illusion, a fantasy, some mathematically ridden dream. It's not reality. All you take about is damage, damage and damage, and you don't see the rest, the context, the whole progression. Caliban's ultimate is a great ultimate, it has this whoomp making a vortex and stripping and having a fallout field that has a long impact on the game. Tharros strike is just a classic shield bash, having a impact now, and that's it. You don't consider all the effects of the spell, just the damage, damage, and damage part.

Told you already. It is a waste of time.

That's why he never talk about Rhino here because subsume roar can amplify ability damage and destroy the entire "damage damage damage" narrative.

That's why he never talk about Dagath because she has two direct damage abilities. Let's push Wyrd Scythes damage from 1000 to 30000 just like Rakhali's Cavalry.

[MrInubis]

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

"Soul Punch forces the target's soul out of its body, turning it into a deadly projectile damaging all in its path."
-Digital Extremes, 2013

And did it ever kill everything with 1 hit? You are using marketing bs as argument? Seriously?

 

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Neither. You balance things in a neutral setting. Duh? Why would you throw in some external factor?

It is balanced like this now and somehow you are not happy. External factors change the outcome, its something so basic that im astonished you cant comprehend it.

 

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

How many Chromas do you see placing Effigy nowadays?

A lot at the credit farming. You dont understand that his spectral scream main purpose is to change his elements and his 4 is mainly CC. The state of CC is completely different discussion.

 

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Also Caliban is getting buffed. In like... a week. You know that, right? His summons are part of that.

And they will still not be able to kill everything. The same way Inaros and Hydroid didnt get any dmg buffs. It was mostly mechanical and qol changes.

 

2 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

But the mods are doing all the work? Switching from a built Vaykor Hek to a built Phenmor is not a 200x difference.

Thats not the point. Its not about the outcome but how you get it.

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, RichardKam a dit :

Told you already. It is a waste of time.

The simple fact he is telling me I'm lying and that I'm standing in the way of his fun is just insane. Next his is going to blame me for everything wrong in his life. I guess when one can't understand that happiness comes from within, he just has to be angry and to push the blame onto others. I wish he could just accept and enjoy things. Theorizing is nice and all, but you can't live there without disconnecting from reality.

[4thBro]

1 hour ago, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE said:

SOO VERY FUN YES AHA

Well, right. That's the point of wanting an endgame.