MR0 on netracell... never judge abook on the cover

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, Agall said:

I still don't really know how Exploiter orb works and have done it several times, almost exclusively for Nightwave. I just kill the spiders and follow instructions if given. Noting, I've played regularly for the last >11 years and are >100% completion, so that doesn't mean anything if I simply don't care to learn the proper fight.

I couldn't tell you what most Warframe's abilities are, there's only a handful I can say I actually know how to play, and my usage % is an indication of that on my profile. Caveat, I haven't played Vauban since the beta and haven't cared to look at his abilities since they were reworked some time ago.

Exceptions just confirm the rule. There can be a 6 year old that drives car better than any of us but i wouldnt say age doesnt matter in that regard and i would take 30yo driver over 6yo. Anecdotal evidence is not evindance at all. You are not good now but at mr1 you were even worse. Players with more hours in game are on avarage a lot better, I dont even know what you try to argue here its not up to debate. 

Edited September 19 by MrInubis

[Agall]

24 minutes ago, MrInubis said:

Exceptions just confirm the rule. There can be a 6 year old that drives car better than any of us but i wouldnt say age doesnt matter in that regard and i would take 30yo driver over 6yo. Anecdotal evidence is not evindance at all. You are not good now but at mr1 you were even worse. Players with more hours in game are on avarage a lot better, I dont even know what you try to argue here its not up to debate. 

You're conflating skill with knowledge here, those are completely separate.

I'll take an example in another game, WoW, where the IRL friend who got me into playing it way back in TBC (I've since quit entirely back in 2022, Agall-Firetree for those who care) has more game time and has played longer than me but is absolutely terrible at the game. Guy can barely get to 1400 rating in any bracket (which is really bad), and he's done PVP the whole 17 years or so.

I can play nothing but Excalibur for the last 11 years and be extremely good at the game mechanics in general, including any Warframe I take the take to read their abilities and understand how they work. The issue in this scenario being entirely a lack of knowledge and effort. 

2 hours ago, Slayer-. said:

So yeah, I don't run from anyone because of so called elitism, which is fairly sad if it's true, never seen it myself.

Most people just avoid new players in general, especially since most players at our level are almost exclusively in Steel Path.

It's also easy to forget how many layers of complexity the game has until you're teaching a newer player who's fairly casual and in their 40s all the game's layers. Its not easy, speaking from recent experience. 😄

[Voltage]

8 hours ago, MrInubis said:

People used hydron/helene before that or any other endless fissures. You got more things done. ESO is just affinity and nothing more. I dont know a single person that plays just ESO for levels. Do you?

There are so many Affinity Loot Caves you're failing to mention. It doesn't really matter what flavor players choose. Some players look for other bonuses, while many are there just for the Affinity. I honestly only level equipment in Affinity Loot Caves. I don't level in other content. Whether it's Viver, Draco, Adaro, Hydron, Berehynia, ESO, Gian Point, or "other methods", it's a major part of player progression and takes time, so it's only natural many players flock to these choices even when they don't have a lot of rewards.

Also, ESO gives Radiant Lith Relics often on the second round. It's nothing to scoff at when you end up with a ton of duplicates over time. They make nice Ducat/Forma Relics.

[Quest]

9 hours ago, MrInubis said:

ESO is just affinity and nothing more. I dont know a single person that plays just ESO for levels. Do you?

yes

[4thBro]

People that leave because of a low MR teammate are just mad that they (think they) won't be getting carried.

[MrInubis]

8 hours ago, Agall said:

You're conflating skill with knowledge here, those are completely separate.

I'll take an example in another game, WoW, where the IRL friend who got me into playing it way back in TBC (I've since quit entirely back in 2022, Agall-Firetree for those who care) has more game time and has played longer than me but is absolutely terrible at the game. Guy can barely get to 1400 rating in any bracket (which is really bad), and he's done PVP the whole 17 years or so.

I can play nothing but Excalibur for the last 11 years and be extremely good at the game mechanics in general, including any Warframe I take the take to read their abilities and understand how they work. The issue in this scenario being entirely a lack of knowledge and effort.

It doesnt matter one bit. In games like warframe knowledge is a skill in itself. Its not hard game as long as you know what you are doing. You all are completely missing the point. There will always be some outliers but MR 30 on avg will be vastly superior to MR2. He plays longer, has more tools, higher lvl mods, knows tilesets etc. You are arguing like its not the case when in overwhelming majority of cases it is. Doesnt matter what you say, you wont bend reality. Just because something doesnt translate 1 to 1 doesnt mean it doesnt matter.

Edited September 20 by MrInubis

[RichardKam]

MR does not equal skill/knowledge, but in general they are correlated.

Higher MR gives you benefit, like mod capacity, standing and void trace limit, access to riven, and relay blessing. If you are playing this game normally, you will rank up your MR. So MR correlates with the time spent, and therefore experience, in this game. It is an assumption that is generally true.

We can nit-pick here and there that there are MR0 players who can do EDA solo or LR4 players who don't know how to netracell, just like there are child prodigies who can solve quadratic equation in kindergarten. That's why the two are not equal, only correlated. If I ever saw an MR0 player joining my netracell squad, of course I will make the assumption that he is new to the game and does not know what is going on. I am not going to assume an MR0 is the master of EDA and level cap void cascade, in the same way that I am not going to teach an LR4 where to acquire ducats.

You cannot blame others for making that assumption about you.

[LRonHoover]

I only join pugs if I'm ready to roll with whatever and probably won't ever even look or think about anybody's MR.

 

 

I don't care/will be entertained if a legitimate MR0 shows up in any pug, especially for netracell where at least they'd get steamrolled if they try to stall outside the circle to pad their damage or whatever.

 

 

 

[Agall]

11 hours ago, MrInubis said:

It doesnt matter one bit. In games like warframe knowledge is a skill in itself. Its not hard game as long as you know what you are doing. You all are completely missing the point. There will always be some outliers but MR 30 on avg will be vastly superior to MR2. He plays longer, has more tools, higher lvl mods, knows tilesets etc. You are arguing like its not the case when in overwhelming majority of cases it is. Doesnt matter what you say, you wont bend reality. Just because something doesnt translate 1 to 1 doesnt mean it doesnt matter.

Its the difference of cause and effect. A player's time in the game will build skill, knowledge, and MR, which are all separate variables. There's instances where they're directly connected, but most aren't. The only one of those that's just a personal QoL bonus is MR, the other two directly affecting your teammates.

In no way does playing Excalibur exclusively for 11 years and perfecting the movement mechanics as a result increase knowledge of other Warframes nor increase MR. MR might goes up if you're experimenting with different melee weapons that release over those 11 years and then eventually get bored enough to full send and 100% completion. Hell, I just learned what the Cedo does, kind of, because of Circuit, not because I equipped it at some point normally.

In no way does knowing how to rank up the Entrati Family develop skill or MR. That does open up more equipment options as a result, which then requires a separate player action to purchase, build, and then level.

In no way does building Prime Warframes to then take them unmodded into SO provide knowledge on how that Warframe works. What does is taking the time to read the abilities, which is developing knowledge but is a separate action.

[Slayer-.]

21 hours ago, Agall said:

 

Most people just avoid new players in general, especially since most players at our level are almost exclusively in Steel Path.

It's also easy to forget how many layers of complexity the game has until you're teaching a newer player who's fairly casual and in their 40s all the game's layers. Its not easy, speaking from recent experience. 😄

I'm not fussed about how low a new player is, the teaching though I get you there, trying to teach a Clannie (60) new to the game how to do something is a struggle at times. 

[MrInubis]

29 minutes ago, Agall said:

Its the difference of cause and effect. A player's time in the game will build skill, knowledge, and MR, which are all separate variables. There's instances where they're directly connected, but most aren't. The only one of those that's just a personal QoL bonus is MR, the other two directly affecting your teammates.

In no way does playing Excalibur exclusively for 11 years and perfecting the movement mechanics as a result increase knowledge of other Warframes nor increase MR. MR might goes up if you're experimenting with different melee weapons that release over those 11 years and then eventually get bored enough to full send and 100% completion. Hell, I just learned what the Cedo does, kind of, because of Circuit, not because I equipped it at some point normally.

In no way does knowing how to rank up the Entrati Family develop skill or MR. That does open up more equipment options as a result, which then requires a separate player action to purchase, build, and then level.

In no way does building Prime Warframes to then take them unmodded into SO provide knowledge on how that Warframe works. What does is taking the time to read the abilities, which is developing knowledge but is a separate action.

In order to get MR you had to farm items, therfor you had to play the game. End of story. You are making some made up scenerio in your head like people that grinded for MR never played anything. You think those items just poped into their account? Skill in warframe is meaningless. It doesnt matter how well you can land those headshots with your braton and rank 4 serration when i shoot arca plasmor and clear everything in front of me. Repeating that you suck wont change the fact that most players get better the longer they play. Arguing that is pure stupidity because thats how humans just work. I have nothing against playing with low mr players but saying mr doesnt matter is pure bs. It does, it shows how long you play and how many things you farmed.

Edited September 20 by MrInubis

[Agall]

1 hour ago, MrInubis said:

In order to get MR you had to farm items, therfor you had to play the game. End of story. You are making some made up scenerio in your head like people that grinded for MR never played anything. You think those items just poped into their account? Skill in warframe is meaningless. It doesnt matter how well you can land those headshots with your braton and rank 4 serration when i shoot arca plasmor and clear everything in front of me. Repeating that you suck wont change the fact that most players get better the longer they play. Arguing that is pure stupidity because thats how humans just work. I have nothing against playing with low mr players but saying mr doesnt matter is pure bs. It does, it shows how long you play and how many things you farmed.

I see, you're just being unreasonable. That ends that conversation I guess.

1 hour ago, Slayer-. said:

I'm not fussed about how low a new player is, the teaching though I get you there, trying to teach a Clannie (60) new to the game how to do something is a struggle at times. 

The game is complex, my friend is in his 40s and is already a casual type gamer. Neuroplasticity be damned.

So you think if that Clannie speed ran to LR4 that they'd be good at the game? 😄

[Slayer-.]

1 minute ago, Agall said:

The game is complex, my friend is in his 40s and is already a casual type gamer. Neuroplasticity be damned.

It is very complex, I see posts around the forums asking for direction on what to do first, it's a lot of data/content to take in for a new player.

2 minutes ago, Agall said:

So you think if that Clannie speed ran to LR4 that they'd be good at the game? 😄

No, not really. I'm in LR4, where I have thousands of hours of gameplay for different missions. I'm still learning things as I go, ^{(or I've just forgotten them with my rusty steel trap mind)} but the clannie will/hopefully have a better understanding of how the game works from help/hints while playing, I'm not into speed running a player through a game, I find it boring, now cracking relics is another whole new story.  

[Agall]

3 minutes ago, Slayer-. said:

It is very complex, I see posts around the forums asking for direction on what to do first, it's a lot of data/content to take in for a new player.

No, not really. I'm in LR4, where I have thousands of hours of gameplay for different missions. I'm still learning things as I go, ^{(or I've just forgotten them with my rusty steel trap mind)} but the clannie will/hopefully have a better understanding of how the game works from help/hints while playing, I'm not into speed running a player through a game, I find it boring, now cracking relics is another whole new story.  

I spent most my time testing Excalibur builds, since almost every patch has something to test. I've filled in the dry periods with pushing MR, but now I'm just at the point where I'm waiting for Plague Keewar to show up, since I somehow missed purchasing one.

I was MR7 for a VERY long time, since I was just playing the same build and absolutely refining my skill in the game. Contrary to what others may say, the skill cap in this game is very high. People that might think otherwise probably don't step outside the meta.

Even at this point, I still have a ton of weapon types and stances to master, since every stance has its own timings and move sets for maximum efficiency. I was playing around with Venka Prime just yesterday figuring out which stance I like best, getting the timing down and seeing how capable the weapon can be. Melee update in WitW providing nearly infinite content for me.

[MrInubis]

10 hours ago, Agall said:

I see, you're just being unreasonable. That ends that conversation I guess.

Says a guy refusing common sense and logical conclusions.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

Agreed. I use to be a regular at illegal underground bareknuckle MMA fighting. I can't say too much, because they were pretty insistent we didn't talk about it, but it was a fun way to spend the weekends, and cheap too. This was when they started to really increase movie ticket prices, and all that. Anyway, in one fight, they were going to put an Age30 against an Age1. Which sounds ridiculous at first... Age1? Thats literally a baby, how can they win in an unsanctioned illegal MMA brawl, let alone survive? Against a fully matured adult man? I wasn't the only one, the majority of us bet for the Age30 expecting it to be a slaughter, but... 

You can never judge a book by its cover.

The Age1 baby destroyed and won in less than a minute. Literally and figuratively, it was a slaughter, most of us didn't seem coming because of our prejudice and inability to see beyond the numbers. In the end, that little violent baby made fools of us all, and despite their age, they taught us all a valuable lesson. Never judge a book by its cover! 

[Karyst]

On 2024-09-19 at 6:28 PM, MrInubis said:

Exceptions just confirm the rule. There can be a 6 year old that drives car better than any of us but i wouldnt say age doesnt matter in that regard and i would take 30yo driver over 6yo. Anecdotal evidence is not evindance at all. You are not good now but at mr1 you were even worse. Players with more hours in game are on avarage a lot better, I dont even know what you try to argue here its not up to debate. 

Drive better on a straight road with no traffic vs 30y old that has never driven a car

1 hour ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Agreed. I use to be a regular at illegal underground bareknuckle MMA fighting. I can't say too much, because they were pretty insistent we didn't talk about it, but it was a fun way to spend the weekends, and cheap too. This was when they started to really increase movie ticket prices, and all that. Anyway, in one fight, they were going to put an Age30 against an Age1. Which sounds ridiculous at first... Age1? Thats literally a baby, how can they win in an unsanctioned illegal MMA brawl, let alone survive? Against a fully matured adult man? I wasn't the only one, the majority of us bet for the Age30 expecting it to be a slaughter, but... 

You can never judge a book by its cover.

The Age1 baby destroyed and won in less than a minute. Literally and figuratively, it was a slaughter, most of us didn't seem coming because of our prejudice and inability to see beyond the numbers. In the end, that little violent baby made fools of us all, and despite their age, they taught us all a valuable lesson. Never judge a book by its cover! 

Was it called the fight club 

[MrInubis]

1 hour ago, Karyst said:

Drive better on a straight road with no traffic vs 30y old that has never driven a car

Again, exception. You need a very specific conditions for that to happen. There are people that are good at the game, there are people that suck on any MR. I have given enough logical reasons why MR matters to certain degree and the only counterpoint i got "but i suck". Like that alone would make all the tools and mods disapear and all his hours in game not relevant.

[RichardKam]

1小时前 , Karyst 说:

Was it called the fight club 

We don't talk about the fight club.

[Agall]

On 2024-09-20 at 7:48 PM, MrInubis said:

Says a guy refusing common sense and logical conclusions.

On 2024-09-19 at 9:10 AM, MrInubis said:

MR just indicates how long you play. Since there is no reason to not increase your MR its pretty good indicator of expierience.

On 2024-09-20 at 8:17 AM, MrInubis said:

In order to get MR you had to farm items, therfor you had to play the game. Skill in warframe is meaningless. It doesnt matter how well you can land those headshots with your braton and rank 4 serration when i shoot arca plasmor and clear everything in front of me. 

I'll just drop these here.

On 2024-09-20 at 7:48 AM, Agall said:

Its the difference of cause and effect. A player's time in the game will build skill, knowledge, and MR, which are all separate variables.

Either you're just trolling at this point, or genuinely don't understand the nature of causation versus correlation. 

[Merkranire]

I think I get what you’re saying, but I also think your argument hinges on the idea that the players you’re playing alongside are capable of discerning the playing capability of their teammates in the first place.

Which they’re not; hence the reliance on a meaningless number that just happens to be bigger

edit: Haha, thinking about it, people will really scrape the bottom of the barrel to seem discerning when they can’t discern

Edited September 23 by Merkranire
typo

[MrInubis]

5 hours ago, Agall said:

Either you're just trolling at this point, or genuinely don't understand the nature of causation versus correlation. 

Dude do you understand that in warframe tools and knowledge is vastly more important than skill? Do you understand that depite you playing a single frame you are superior to MR2 simply because you know how to play that single frame perfectly and have weapons, mods and arcanes that this theoretical dude doesnt? MR respresents expierience with the game and its the most important part. You are so hell bent on the idea that i dont understand that MR doesnt give you "skill" when ive never made such statement. How well you play the game is just a lot less important. Ive even given you example, it doesnt matter how good you are if you just have braton with r5 serration. For the last time, i know MR doesnt give you any power, it shows however how long you play. You had to play the game to get this MR, you had to farm items, you must know what you are doing even if you just play 1 frame. I dont care that you suck, majority of players play the game and will get better at it with time by simple practice.

Edited September 23 by MrInubis

[Merkranire]

4 hours ago, MrInubis said:

Dude do you understand that in warframe tools and knowledge is vastly more important than skill? Do you understand that depite you playing a single frame you are superior to MR2 simply because you know how to play that single frame perfectly and have weapons, mods and arcanes that this theoretical dude doesnt? MR respresents expierience with the game and its the most important part. You are so hell bent on the idea that i dont understand that MR doesnt give you "skill" when ive never made such statement. How well you play the game is just a lot less important. Ive even given you example, it doesnt matter how good you are if you just have braton with r5 serration. For the last time, i know MR doesnt give you any power, it shows however how long you play. You had to play the game to get this MR, you had to farm items, you must know what you are doing even if you just play 1 frame. I dont care that you suck, majority of players play the game and will get better at it with time by simple practice.

If I could interject;

I think the idea of players getting better over time is not always a given; if someone’s always overbuilt for the content they’re doing, perpetually offsetting themselves higher (which this game doesn’t stop us from doing) which results in one-shotting everything while being invincible, there’s not much to practice. And the game rarely if ever forces players outside of their comfort zone; outside of something like the loadout Randomisers, you gotta actively combine your builds and missions with an intent to actually get pushed and require playing capability, otherwise it’s not exactly uncommon for players to combine missions and builds in ways that result in as little player involvement as possible, which can work but if they never bother practicing alternative combinations, they’re actually locked into a few ways to play since they won’t know how to deal with the situations that arise if they start exploring

[Agall]

5 hours ago, MrInubis said:

For the last time, i know MR doesnt give you any power, it shows however how long you play. You had to play the game to get this MR, you had to farm items

Time played =/= an increase in MR. MR doesn't require a high* amount of time played or skill or knowledge. If MR challenges were actually difficult, that would be another story. I wouldn't doubt if someone could get up to MR30 just buying platinum with money and everything possible from the store, then pay someone with platinum to power level them. At no point would that require time played, skill, or knowledge, which would literally define correlation versus causation. 

You seem to refuse to accept that its a correlation, not a causation, and its ironically the entire point behind this thread. Either that, or you're being dishonest in your arguments, which seems more likely at this point.

1 hour ago, Merkranire said:

If I could interject;

I think the idea of players getting better over time is not always a given; if someone’s always overbuilt for the content they’re doing, perpetually offsetting themselves higher (which this game doesn’t stop us from doing) which results in one-shotting everything while being invincible, there’s not much to practice. And the game rarely if ever forces players outside of their comfort zone; outside of something like the loadout Randomisers, you gotta actively combine your builds and missions with an intent to actually get pushed and require playing capability, otherwise it’s not exactly uncommon for players to combine missions and builds in ways that result in as little player involvement as possible, which can work but if they never bother practicing alternative combinations, they’re actually locked into a few ways to play since they won’t know how to deal with the situations that arise if they start exploring

EDA forces me out of my standard loadout, but I generally just play Trinity for it with an energy vamp build since that's useful in most weeks. Same same but different.

Edited September 23 by Agall

[Merkranire]

6 minutes ago, Agall said:

EDA forces me out of my standard loadout, but I generally just play Trinity for it with an energy vamp build since that's useful in most weeks. Same same but different.

I’m not sure I follow the point you’re making. Is sticking to Trinity a… good thing?

Edited September 23 by Merkranire