Dev Workshop: Koumei & the Five Fates - Caliban + Nova Rework

[LittleLeoniePrime]

20 minutes ago, MerlintheAgeless said:

already clarified on Twitter. It's in addition to.

 

oh thank god. I don't have a twitter account so I'm kinda left out of that section of the whole Q&A and all the info I do know is whats on here :/

Edited yesterday at 09:30 PM by LittleLeoniePrime

[(PSN)TwilightGrim]

On 2024-09-27 at 1:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Lethal Progeny:

Caliban can now summon three types of Sentients: Ortholysts, Summulysts, and Conculysts (the OG). All Sentient summons will, naturally, adapt to incoming enemy damage. You can only summon a set of Sentients at a time, so no mixing of 1 Conculyst, 2 Ortholysts, or one of each Sentient type.

Each Sentient comes with its own unique mechanic. Conculysts will match your Fusion Strike with one of their own, Ortholysts will deliver a rain of guaranteed Tau Status across the battlefield, and Summulysts, capable of summoning six resilient Choralysts, will draw attention from you and your allies while ensuring your Shields are never depleted.

• When you cast to summon Caliban’s Sentients, you’ll summon all three of the chosen Sentients with one cast instead of previously needing to cast three separate times. Players can now recast the ability to refresh their Sentient count or summon different Sentient types. 
  • Recasting will replace existing Sentients and summon new ones where Caliban is aiming. 
• Conculyst
  • As Melee-oriented summons, the Concluysts retain their role as the primary damage dealers of Caliban’s trifecta.
    • Conculysts “Tornado” Ability lasts 6 seconds and a cooldown of 4 seconds, and they’ll spin to win more often.
      • The Tornado Ability also had its base Damage bumped to 1,000 from the previous 50.
    • These do not scale with any Warframe Mods.
  • Concluysts will now cast Fusion Strike alongside Caliban for 0.5x the effectiveness of Caliban’s Fusion Strike.
    • Conculysts will target their Fusion Strike wherever Caliban’s was fired.
  • Conculysts’ target priority has been slightly reduced.
    • Conculysts target priority was lowered to incentivize using the Summulyst as the premiere distraction noodle!
  • Caliban can summon up to three Conculysts simultaneously for the same Energy cost as just summoning one in his previous iteration (much more efficient)!
  • As stated above, Conculysts no longer recharge Shields, which lies solely with the Summulysts.
• Ortholyst
  • As long-ranged summons, the Ortholysts inflict only Tau Damage and Tau Status Effects onto the field en masse with their Cannon and Mortar forms.
    • The Ortholyst’s Cannons have a 100% Status Chance, guaranteeing Tau Status Effects
      • The Ortholysts Mortar form has 300% Status Chance
      • These numbers do not scale with any Mods.
  • Ortholysts’ target priority matches that of Conculysts.
  • Caliban can summon up to three Ortholysts simultaneously for the same Energy cost.
• Summulyst:
  • Summulysts are portal-based Sentients that summon Shield-regenerating Choralysts that’ll distract your foes while recharging your and your allies' Shields.
    • Summulysts will summon six Choralysts. These Choralysts, when killed, will be immediately replaced if the Summulyst is still active.
    • These Choralysts have the highest possible target priority, ensuring enemies target them whenever possible instead of the players.
  • Choralysts Shields recharge at a base of 25 Shields per second, scaling with Ability Strength.
    • Choralysts will also apply this Shield recharge to you and your allies.
    • The range to receive the Shield recharge scales with Ability Range!
  • Caliban can summon one Summulyst at a time.
• His Sentients will benefit from a 10x Damage multiplier against all non-Sentient Factions/enemies whenever a Sentient unit deals Sentient Damage.
• All the Sentients will recharge your Shields! Summulysts just do it best thanks to their six extra Choralysts!
• Base Duration of the Sentient summons increased to 45 from 25!
• Removed collision on summons so Caliban’s Progeny does not get in his way, similar to Nekros’ Shadows. 
• You can now see your Sentient summons through walls, similar to how Khora can see Venari.
• Squad members will see Caliban’s Sentients with some dithering to make it clear they’re allies!

Will the summons rank up with the enemy faction or will they remain at lvl 30 as its base?

[Helilx342]

5 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

Following up on Pablo's message, but we've heard your feedback and are returning Caliban's Fusion Strike defense-stripping radial field with Koumei & the Five Fates! This means we've restored defense stripping found in the radial field from the blast alongside defense stripping with the beam's contact with his rework. 

Also, all of his Sentient summons will get their Shield-recharging components back (with the Shields-per-second scaling identical to each other at a base 25), but Summulysts will do it best thanks to their ability to spawn six Choralysts versus Conculysts and Ortholysts who have a max spawn cap of three!

We also bumped up the Sentients’ base Duration (scaling with Duration Mods, of course) from 25 seconds to 45 seconds! Razor Gyre will also heal 30 Health/Shields/Overshields instead of 20!

Thank you for the feedback, everyone. Once again, all final details and changes will be listed in the official Koumei & the Five Fates patch notes.
 

Hello, I would like to say thank you for listening to community feedback and applying these changes. However, they’re still areas that can be improved upon.

One area that can be improved upon is Caliban’s energy economy. Currently he has 187 energy max at level 30. This energy pool is too small for a caster frame like Caliban to be comfortable. I would recommend increasing his energy pool capacity to 300.

Sentient Wrath needs to be applicable on the boss type enemies such as the Fragmented One.

Lethal Progeny summons should be modifiable or inherit weapon mods if not. Health should also scale with enemy levels to prevent them from getting killed quickly in +1,000 level content.

Fusion Strike is visually a 4^th ability but functionally 2/3^rd ability, competing with the likes of Tharros Strike from Styanax and Gaze from Xaku. There a plethora of ways to nullify defenses the of enemies in Warframe. For example the Unariu focus school, Pillage, Tharros Strike, Gaze, Corrosive status mixed with Archon Shards, Magnetic status effect, and many more. Also, there are many abilities that deal significant damage to enemies such as Peace Makers, Dex Pixia, Tragedy/Dark Verse, Tempest Barrage, Anti-matter Drop, Whipclaw, and Quorvex’s Crucible Blast to name a few. A warframe’s 4^th ability should be the most distinguishable ability among their kit. After this rework Caliban’s 4^th ability will defense strip an enemy and deal “okay” damage to said enemy IF you are aiming at them for the duration of the ability. Combining damage and a defense strip into one ability is not unique enough to be considered a 4^th ability, when so many other frames have defense strips and damage baked into their base kits or deal so much damage they will out right kill the enemy instead.  

Caliban’s 4^th ability should be more than just combining damage and a defense strip. I propose in addition to what he is gaining in this rework he also gains grouping and an escalating percentile damage increase debuff. It would be nice if this ability slowed enemies within the strip volume.

The grouping effect function as follows:

·         Upon casting Fusion Strike creates a vortex at the epicenter of the explosion sucking in enemies for 2 seconds at 1.5x the original defense strip volume. (Aggressive sucking)

·         i.e. if the original radius of the defense strip volume is 10 meters, then the radius of the grouping volume will be 15 meters.

The escalating percentile damage increase would function similarly to Persistent Attrition from the Duviri decrees. This debuff would stack multiplicatively with all forms of damage. This debuff should apply to special enemies such as Kuva liches, necramechs, and The Fragmented One.

The escalating percentile damage increase would function as follows:

·         Enemies that stay within the defense strip zone will receive (Base strength value + X% increase per second) damage every second they stay within the zone. If the enemy leaves the zone the effect will persist for X amount of seconds, and if they reenter the zone damage increase will continue from where it left off.

·         Example: You have Stahlta with the following mods: Malignant Force, High Voltage, Galvanized Aptitude, Point Strike, Vile Acceleration, Vital Sense, Galvanized Chamber, Primed Bane of the Grineer, and Primary Dead Head. You prime an enemy with 10x viral and corrosive stacks while casting Sentient Wrath. You fire your alternate fire and headshot an enemy for 56 million damage before applying Fusion Strike. You cast Fusion Strike and the enemy stays within the field for 10 seconds yielding a 24% final damage multiplier. For the sake of simplicity a 100% defense strip yields a 100% damage increase.  You repeat the same process of priming the enemy and now deal 138.8 million damage.

With the addition of grouping, a final damage multiplier, and slowing, Caliban’s 4^th ability becomes distinguishable from the sea of other abilities.

Moving away from the additions that I would like to see added to Caliban’s 4^th ability, I do not understand why there needs to be a turning speed NERF when casting his 4^th ability. I have very limited Desk space, and I play with a DPI of 800 with 0,0,1 for sensitivity mouse settings. This NERF  to turning speed would effectively double the distance my mouse needs to travel when aiming his 4^th ability. Heaven forbid the enemy that I am trying to track while casting his 4 decides to run to the right of my screen when my mouse is at the edge of my desk leading me to quickly center my mouse only for the ability to end and waste 100 energy because I couldn’t track the enemy fast enough. PLEASE DO NOT implement the turning speed NERF.

Tl;dr

·         Change energy pool from 187 -> 300

·         Make Sentient Warth affect Special bosses i.e. The Fragmented One

·         Lethal Progeny Needs to have health scaling and weapon scaling or be modifiable

·         Fusion Strike needs to be more than a defense strip with “okay” damage by adding grouping, a multiplicative final damage multiplier, and slow effect to enemies within its field.

·         DO NOT ADD THE TURING SPEED NERF WHEN CASTING HIS 4^TH ABILITY

If I think of anything else I will post about it.

 

 

 

 

[Skoomaseller]

Thanks for going back on removing Fusion Strike's fallout field. Can't wait to dust off my Caliban, right now I've spent 6 Forma just for him to be a shelf queen (king?).

[Kaiga]

This looks great, but you really should take a second look at caliban's passive. Right now he has basically no passive if one of the most important mods in the game (adaptation) is run on any builds, and leaves a lot to be desired considering how much the rest of his kit was reworked.

100% buying that Caliban Orfeo either way though, you tell that artist who made that they struck gold.

[Talisman198432]

I like all of the changes, the only real issue is his passive which is only going to be replaced entirely by the Adaptation mod.

I've heard and thought of several ways to make it slightly better while not making it too ridiculous. 

Edit: forgot to mention that all of these are separate ideas, not three buffs you should add. 

1. Make Caliban adapt to all damage from a single shot, still Only getting 50% max but adding at least giving him more damage types to be resistant to, if the Adaptation mod is out on, he's getting max 90% DR on the strongest type and 50% max on any other ones.

2. Make adaptive armor adapt to only 0.5% of the strongest damage type, but make it permanent up to a max of 50%. For allies it could be the same, or just not give it to allies. (This one is pretty selfish)

3. Finally, the final idea I came up with is anyone that takes damage within range of Calibans passive gives everyone the adaptation. So if your teammates get hit and develop some DR, that DR is also given to everyone within range. Sentients, spectre's, and allies (maybe defence objectives but probably not) will basically be fueling the DR constantly.

Just some ideas, I love what you all did with Caliban as he's my main warframe. Even if you don't change the passive he's still most likely an S-tier frame. Thanks for the rework. Adios.

Edited 13 hours ago by Talisman198432

[Talisman198432]

Some people are asking for a little too much, I've seen people request for more stuff when from what I've seen, he's going to be perfect. If anyone is asking for ideas to change the abilities, then they're thinking instant extermination of everything on the map or wanting to overcomplicate Caliban.

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

9 hours ago, [DE]Sam said:

Howdy, Tenno!

Following up on Pablo's message, but we've heard your feedback and are returning Caliban's Fusion Strike defense-stripping radial field with Koumei & the Five Fates! This means we've restored defense stripping found in the radial field from the blast alongside defense stripping with the beam's contact with his rework. 

Also, all of his Sentient summons will get their Shield-recharging components back (with the Shields-per-second scaling identical to each other at a base 25), but Summulysts will do it best thanks to their ability to spawn six Choralysts versus Conculysts and Ortholysts who have a max spawn cap of three!

We also bumped up the Sentients’ base Duration (scaling with Duration Mods, of course) from 25 seconds to 45 seconds! Razor Gyre will also heal 30 Health/Shields/Overshields instead of 20!

Thank you for the feedback, everyone. Once again, all final details and changes will be listed in the official Koumei & the Five Fates patch notes.
 

These are good improvements, but his passive and the level scaling of his Sentients still need to be looked at. His Sentients will not survive long against enemies in long run endless missions, and his passive really needs to have positive interaction with Adaptation as well as being able to gain resistances while Caliban is invulnerable like Adaptation does.

[Metal_Sign]

On 2024-09-28 at 9:07 AM, Spookmineer said:

They said caliban is a caster frame. Not will be, but currently is.

'Twas joke. "Callie may as well not even exist rn" sort of thing.

That said, isn't callie a caster? it has big lasers and damage buffs that actually work on abilities. Like a laser-ey Ember with overpriced abilities. the 1 doesn't even let you shoot during it, but you can still cast (I think.)

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

On 2024-09-29 at 7:26 PM, (PSN)Grand_Sheba said:

You lose your entire Adaptation stack at 20s (if the mod is max rank, economic builders often run it lower). 

I’m not batting for the “its OP team” here but there are various advantages to it (also being team wide) that do keep it as a very nice passive. The general argument against it is like saying Arcane Guardian exists so Atlas, Frost and Grendels passives are useless 

You made the comparison here, which is what i responded to.

True neutral is affective against vip targets, ignoring alot of their resistances. Like prospectors, mission bosses, necromech abd ect. But who knows what Pablo has in store for the true neutral in this next update. 

This is turning into a pointless debate and im pretty done with this thread.

When caliban comes out and we see all the final tweaks and how he actually functions it will be better. His passive as it currently stands remains as i already addressed and broke down. So it really does need to be reworked to fit the developers comment on being able to adapt to anything and Sentient power fantasy. 

How ever you feel about it is cool and i love that for you.

[Circle_of_Psi]

So here is my feedback based on the recent changes:

Passive: Cailban's Passive needs to either to be replaced or buffed quite a bit, his passive is useless if people use Adaptation mod, so you got two choices

• Make the Adaptation mod itself his passive
• Replace his passive with something else

Razor Gyre: While I will judge when he is out, Razor Gyre still feels like a power I'll subsume over, however there is two ways we can buff it (on top of the 30) that might save it from being removed for something stronger.

• Make Caliban immune from damage for the duration of the cast.
• Replace Overshield with Overguard
• Make it act like Reave

 

Sentient Wrath: Due to that CC is dead in Warframe, I can't see how this power will be useful during End-Game, so a few touch ups for this power is required

• Allow this to Bypasses Overguard
• Boost the Damage from 2,000 base to 4,000
• Boost Damage Vulnerability from 35% to 50%
• Grants Overguard when you hit foes (If you don't put this on Razor Gyre)

 

Lethal Progeny: (Perfect how it is now, but remove Shields for Overguard

 

Fusion Strike: (No Change)

[dwqrf]

il y a 42 minutes, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

Sentient Wrath: Due to that CC is dead in Warframe, I can't see how this power will be useful during End-Game, so a few touch ups for this power is required

• Allow this to Bypasses Overguard
• Boost the Damage from 2,000 base to 4,000
• Boost Damage Vulnerability from 35% to 50%
• Grants Overguard when you hit foes

Wait what ? Not only it's a subsumable already stronger than Roar as a debuff (and both can be played together) but you want it to be 40%+ stronger as an effect, deal 100% more damage, also want it to bypass Overguard AND grant Overguard, on top of being a CC ?

That doesn't seem neither necessary, nor balanced.

It was already extremely useful and potent in endgame, and with the already proposed changes (refreshable, no ragdoll, no enemy limit), it will be even better. It used to work as a debuff on targets that weren't affected by its cc, ie Eximii, Acolytes and such ; and I don't think that will change.

Overguard generation on Caliban could come from Summulyst augment, or yes, maybe even Razor Gyre or its augment, but surely not from this god tier debuff that you can subsume on every frame.

 

il y a 56 minutes, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

Passive: Cailban's Passive needs to either to be replaced or buffed quite a bit, his passive is useless if people use Adaptation mod, so you got two choices

• Make the Adaptation mod itself his passive

That I could agree on, if only it wasn't an Aura in affinity range.

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

Wait what ? Not only it's a subsumable already stronger than Roar as a debuff (and both can be played together) 

It was already extremely useful and potent in endgame, and with the already proposed changes (refreshable, no ragdoll, no enemy limit), it will be even better. It used to work as a debuff on targets that weren't affected by its cc, ie Eximii, Acolytes and such ; and I don't think that will change.

Oh hey dwqrf! (Or shuold I call you Cailban? xD)

But yeah, with my experience I've never seen Sentient Wrath due to Overguard guys and in most high end level content (Such as Steelpath to DEA) it seems to fall of quite a bit bui that's porb cuz I was useing Pre-Rework Cailban my tune might change if it's as good as you make it out to be.

My plan for Cailban when he is out is to drop Razor Grye for either: Roar/Fractured Blast/Wyrd Scythes.  Roar is a smiple choice but the last 2 are for endless orbs or Viral Damage porcs

[XR17]

Still curious how the summons will be calculated in rank/damage/HP. Are they the same level of the area (as specters), level dependant of the ability rank, level scales with ability str only in HP terms while the damage is set by ability rank?

Edited 6 hours ago by XR17

[Darkmega18]

On 2024-09-28 at 6:48 AM, [DE]Sam said:

 

Some Mild Suggestions/questions:

 

On Caliban, one thing I really liked doing even in the old one was turning it on and dashing AT a specific enemy and using sentient wrath on impact for the quicker cast before canceling the spin sort of like a "dynamic entry" or crowd dispersal kinda move.

Can we please have the ability to hold calibans 1 to target a foe and then dash to them rather than just through them in a straight line? I didn't see any mention of that old feature.

While you pick enemies along his dash and regen health and damage them, mechanically the targeted impact should knock them down in such a state that can enable ground finishers and should have increased area at the impact site.

In either way, ability to speedcast sentient wrath still while mid-dash would be nice too to make it come out quicker. and if it doesn't already, crate breaking/object damage plz if you hit them while spinning through the area/with the suggested targeted dash impact?

 

On Nova, when you recast the augment for null stars does it still cause it's explosion that destroys crates etc nearby? I'd still like to be able to use it in loot hunt builds/early game cast spam nukes.

 

On Hildryn something I noticed was that she physically takes out two balefire chargers but functionally the damage etc still remains the same. It'd be really nice if in this tune up you could functionally either double the fire rate/charge rate (two gun) and/or double the multi-shot (dual firing) but add a little spread to the weapon while doing Aegis storm and using the balefires together.

Edited 6 hours ago by Darkmega18

[vFlitz]

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

My plan for Cailban when he is out is to drop Razor Grye for either: Roar/Fractured Blast/Wyrd Scythes.  Roar is a smiple choice but the last 2 are for endless orbs or Viral Damage porcs

I know telling people to use Nourish is sounding like a broken record but it makes too much sense. You improve your energy economy, you increase your summons damage output and make them proc viral for you, you get viral on your own weapons. It basically achieves the goals of all the options you considered.

[Circle_of_Psi]

14 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

I know telling people to use Nourish is sounding like a broken record but it makes too much sense. You improve your energy economy, you increase your summons damage output and make them proc viral for you, you get viral on your own weapons. It basically achieves the goals of all the options you considered.

Hm, I might consider that, thank you!

[sXeth]

4 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Oh hey dwqrf! (Or shuold I call you Cailban? xD)

But yeah, with my experience I've never seen Sentient Wrath due to Overguard guys and in most high end level content (Such as Steelpath to DEA) it seems to fall of quite a bit bui that's porb cuz I was useing Pre-Rework Cailban my tune might change if it's as good as you make it out to be.

My plan for Cailban when he is out is to drop Razor Grye for either: Roar/Fractured Blast/Wyrd Scythes.  Roar is a smiple choice but the last 2 are for endless orbs or Viral Damage porcs

Yeah the subsume wasn’t common because one Caliban is an insane grind (tbh I feel like that is the leftover standout point) and two is insanity lol. But even just meeting the strength requirement for the 100% strip was already giving more vulnerability then a Nova (for timely reference) in a huge AoE. A vulnerability that also stacked with viral and various multiplicative damage buffs.

(I was enough of a lunatic (and my clan mates can never sync up so I helped like 5 of them farm lol) to have it. I use it on Gyre, which should go even harder with the tau procs. )

[FINNIX-ttv]

On 2024-09-27 at 3:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Molecular Fission (Augment): 

• Null Star will apply Molecular Prime to enemies struck by its particles.

How will this function considering we have 2 Molecular Prime options? Will it just apply the slow or speed based on whichever one was casted last or would it just apply the damage multiplier?

[LittleLeoniePrime]

1 hour ago, FINNIX-ttv said:

How will this function considering we have 2 Molecular Prime options? Will it just apply the slow or speed based on whichever one was casted last or would it just apply the damage multiplier?

that's a good question actually... I do think from the video pablo posted it applies slow tho.

Edited 6 minutes ago by LittleLeoniePrime