Proportionate Shared Xp

[Helljack84]

The allocation means that if you don’t make any kills with a weapon it won’t get any XP from your team-mates.

 

Clarification 2: if you haven't gotten any kills yet the shared XP works exactly as it did before (ie: even split between all three weapons).

So if I have an unranked weapon I'm better of getting no kills at all?

[pravda]

This change will not make the game more fun. Quite the opposite.

Edited December 12, 2013 by pravda

[Xylia]

If you read his posts, they're aware we dislike it, they just don't view it as a problem. 

 

And that is frustrating as all Hell.

 

They surely can't see this as FUN when you're wasting XP left-and-right, slogging around with wimpy weapons that can barely hurt a fly. The current system is bad enough, this new system will be much worse.

[N7Arthur]

So if I have an unranked weapon I'm better of getting no kills at all?

It's better if you get one kill, and don't do anything for the rest of the game so all the shared XP goes to the unranked weapon.

[Xylia]

So if I have an unranked weapon I'm better of getting no kills at all?

 

YUP!

 

Hellllooooo Leeching.

 

I am so going to go Rhino and do nothing but Roar during the whole map.

[Xylia]

It's better if you get one kill, and don't do anything for the rest of the game so all the shared XP goes to the unranked weapon.

 

You don't even have to get a kill. Just hit 1 mob (kill or no kill) and then just do nothing the rest of the map.

[N7Arthur]

You don't even have to get a kill. Just hit 1 mob (kill or no kill) and then just do nothing the rest of the map.

I can just see it, 4 people with all unranked gear just standing around looking at each other, hoping one will start nuking enemies, but none do, and the mission is failed, wonderful.

[SignalWarden]

I'm normally a big fan of the way DE makes changes to the game, but this one seems ill advised. 

 

So, basically, you nerfed equipment leveling? 'Cause from what I understood there's no longer a point in bringing an unranked weapon to a high level mission since you won't be able to kill anything with it and therefore won't be able to receive shared XP for that weapon. So, you just made it worse.

 

The thing that really strikes me about this is even if you go to a low level area to level that new heat sword you don't want to use, you won't bring the bolto that is unranked because it will cut into the melee xp. So you have to focus on a single weapon to level and double your level time. This is going to really drag out levelling. 

 

 

While good, it really needs to as the first response indicated allow for assists.  New weapons aren't likely to get any kills if you have someone pressing 4 all the time on your team.

 

Also, what's to stop leachers from just getting one kill and coasting?  I really think some kill+assist threshold needs to be met before administering the XP.

 

Assists not being counted here is the biggest deal breaker for me. If I am bringing my Trinity in a game with Nova and a Soma packing Volt, I don't even have the option of bringing some unlevelled weapons anymore because there will be no xp from my almost zero kills. At least if there were assists involved I'd be alright with a more supportive role, but with this, no go. Also, this hurts levelling Nyx even more. So glad I got that out of the way. 

 

im curious, have you guys at DE encountered "hallway heroes"? they're basically people that run off and away from the objective (in either defense) to kill things for experience on their own; usually far enough away that the people at the objective wont get that experience without also leaving it. if you have, have you considered any kind of solution for people doing that? (it is not an infrequent occurrence)

 

Hallway heroes are going to be even worse now. There is now a legitimate reason for them to pull enemies away from everyone else. With this move, and this is a very big deal, DE has officially made kill stealing a Warframe thing. 

 

Then the issue is not with the EXP system, but with the Melee system. You don't even know what you're complaining about.

 

The issue is definitely with the melee system as well, but there is no point in trying to repair this before melee. Fixing the melee system increases enjoyability. This does artificially inflates gameplay. 

 

To be honest... To hell with realism.

 

I'm here to kill things.

 

The less fun that is, the less I want to play this game. Dassit.

 

This. Right here. 

 

So basically, this move will discourage non-dps roles, punish variety in loadouts, create kill stealing, promote selfish playstyles (in a co-op game no less) and artificially inflate playtime. 

This would not be your best move guys. Please bring this back to the drawing board. 

[[DE]Rebecca]

This is a growing controversial discussion - please do your best to remain respectful and in-line with the rules. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/7-community-rules/

Seeing the arguments from many sides here.                               

[SHADOWSTORM-NZ]

Interesting. Lets hope this works well.

[Sky.Prime]

:GOOD:

[N7Arthur]

This is a growing controversial discussion - please do your best to remain respectful and in-line with the rules. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/7-community-rules/

Seeing the arguments from many sides here.

We try not to be disrespectful, but recent events have started making cracks in the bottle of patience, and for some, rage and hate is starting to slowly come out, for some, this was enough to get pushed into the rage. What we want is more dev cooperation with the community, have a community poll, or other things like that. Not acknowleding a problem, and then not saying how it will be adressed, and most times, coming up with something worse.

[SatouJin]

so basically there's no difference now playing in party than playing solo? since you have to use the weapon to level it, that's what i was doing in solo missions anyway. less and less 'team-based' elements in this game everyday.

 

as many have said, melee is basically done for now especially having taken away the lower infested stages that were good for it.

 

i feel the worst for trin, nyx and loki. as if it wasn't hard enough to get kills over the exploder frames like nova, saryn, and rhino - now were even limiting it to weapons too. so by the time you're done drawing your bow, the guy with the soma has already cleared the room.

 

and saying 'but you could get triple the experience by using the weapon this way' is pointless if you can't actually kill anything with it. how are you going to get through a corpus shield or grineer armor with an unmodded weapon? (once again, especially melee)

[immolator1001]

This will make leveling up guns I don't like very difficult.

[Datareaper]

Well my issue is that most weapons without mods or low level take a good chunk of time to drop even mercury Grineer.  Because weapons have no aura slot we dont get a sum of bonus power to put some essential mods in like Hornet Strike or Serration.

Melee weapons right now are beyond the most difficult weapons to level, doing an infested mobile defense the other day using nothing but my dual Kama I was only able to obtain 90% of a SINGLE level from 20-21 solo against level 30ish infested.  the Kama is supercharged and built to fight infested too.

Sidearms and melee weapons are secondary weapons, they should not have to be primarily used to level them up.  Most if not all secondary weapons are inferior to Primaries by design.  Melee damage in general is just in a terrible spot so I cant really comment on it.  But my point is secondary weapons should level with a percentage of experience coming from your warframe and primary weapons.

Currently whenever I kill something with a warframe power I view the experience as useless, which is why I love seeing Nova or Ember in defense missions because they can wipe out vast scores of enemies and grant some of the experience to by less useful sidearms I dont always need to use.

 

Leveling up stuff takes time, but it doesnt have to and shouldnt be PAINFUL to do so (lemme just go ATTEMPT to score even a single kill with Afuris thats level 10 or lower, oh wait I emptied half my total ammo into a single grineer lancer)

[Sumnus]

We try not to be disrespectful, but recent events have started making cracks in the bottle of patience, and for some, rage and hate is starting to slowly come out, for some, this was enough to get pushed into the rage. What we want is more dev cooperation with the community, have a community poll, or other things like that. Not acknowleding a problem, and then not saying how it will be adressed, and most times, coming up with something worse.

 

 

Pretty much this.

But it's more a philosophy change. If you go back on Twitch and watch the livestreams from June or July, they were saying things that we all liked, but their philosophies have changed over recent months, which is where the players are getting upset. The players and DE used to be a lot more in sync with where they wanted the game to go than they are now. I'm not sure if they actually gave Sony some input in creative control with the PS4 deal, or if they just hired new employees who have different views than what Scott and Steve used to say on streams, or if what was said on streams was just a last push to sell some founders packages, but whatever has changed over the past six months or so has lost most of the "veteran" players' interest. And it frustrates us. 

DE has every right to change anything they want about their game, and for whatever reason, but players getting upset is a reasonable response. Just keep it civil/somewhat constructive.

[Un1ted]

This is a great change, although as its already evident its going to be a tough pill to swallow at first because players have become accustomed to what is essentially an abuse of game mechanics.

 

To everyone who doesn't like the change, let's be absolutely honest with ourselves for a moment and face the truth - it never should have been the old way to begin with. I'm not even talking "logic" -we can ignore that in this game- I'm talking about "common sense" we should never NEVER have been able to level up weapons by not using them, it's absurd that we were ever allowed to in the first place. But since we WERE allowed to, when that exploit is removed it hurts at first, but it's a band-aid that needed to be ripped off. Should have been done long ago.

 

The fact that this change will force people to play using "crap weapons" is an entirely separate issue. If anything, the renewed complaints will light a fire under DE's &#! to improve underperforming weaponry and melee in general, but don't confuse the two issues. Shared XP leeching and poorly designed weapons are two different problems, at least this new change will address ONE of them, and that's a start.

[[DE]Rebecca]

We try not to be disrespectful, but recent events have started making cracks in the bottle of patience, and for some, rage and hate is starting to slowly come out, for some, this was enough to get pushed into the rage. ...

 

A lot (not all, but a lot) of what is being discussed here falls back to oft-mentioned problems with the melee system - the suggested shared XP change is drastically highlighting how unsatisfying/unviable many of our core players feel melee is.

[Naftal]

so basically there's no difference now playing in party than playing solo? since you have to use the weapon to level it, that's what i was doing in solo missions anyway. less and less 'team-based' elements in this game everyday.

 

as many have said, melee is basically done for now especially having taken away the lower infested stages that were good for it.

 

i feel the worst for trin, nyx and loki. as if it wasn't hard enough to get kills over the exploder frames like nova, saryn, and rhino - now were even limiting it to weapons too. so by the time you're done drawing your bow, the guy with the soma has already cleared the room.

 

and saying 'but you could get triple the experience by using the weapon this way' is pointless if you can't actually kill anything with it. how are you going to get through a corpus shield or grineer armor with an unmodded weapon? (once again, especially melee)

If you can't kill anything with it, you're playing too high level mission. Low level grineer don't have much armor and low level corpus don't have much shields. Level the weapon somewhere where you can fight enemies that the weapon you're leveling has good base stats against.

 

A lot of people here have the misconception that you must go to Mercury to level some things, this just isn't true...

 

I've been wondering why we don't have to use our weapons to level them for a long time. I'm not worried about actually having to use the worse weapons, but I'm worried about not having enough people to deal damage... Maybe people who don't have kills shouldn't be awarded affinity at all, and if they only have one or two or something like that, they should get only a little...

[SuperficialWounds]

If your Warframe is already rank 30 the share is wasted as it was before.

This needs to be addressed. XP should not be wasted. Right now this is a penalty for bringing in maxed items. 

[RejectionOfFate]

Pls Glen, kill this idea, kill it with fire.

You can't. Fire is garbage now as well. 

 

 

Try ice.

[Khranitel]

so basically there's no difference now playing in party than playing solo? since you have to use the weapon to level it, that's what i was doing in solo missions anyway. less and less 'team-based' elements in this game everyday.

 

as many have said, melee is basically done for now especially having taken away the lower infested stages that were good for it.

 

i feel the worst for trin, nyx and loki. as if it wasn't hard enough to get kills over the exploder frames like nova, saryn, and rhino - now were even limiting it to weapons too. so by the time you're done drawing your bow, the guy with the soma has already cleared the room.

 

and saying 'but you could get triple the experience by using the weapon this way' is pointless if you can't actually kill anything with it. how are you going to get through a corpus shield or grineer armor with an unmodded weapon? (once again, especially melee)

Seems that you have some comprehension problems. Re-read first post, please.

[eStecko]

Sirs, sirs... in my personal opinion, i think you are going in a wrong direction, again. :X

 

To elaborate, i understand that you are a free game, you need to sell platinum and affinity booster is a thing. But... you are also creating a game for many people (and possible customers) and small change to one system can create a chain reaction across entire game.

 

To break this apart, what you are doing is to improve experience of players in high level zones, which got players with low ranked gear leeching away xp and being pretty much useless - if they had everything low level. And here is where the problem starts. How will you kill something with low level weapon there? You pretty much dont, thats why you will use your warframe's abilities or (surprise) another weapon, because we have a technology of weapon swap.

 

The only problem in current system is the xp gain into fully ranked weapon/warframe and this change will only deepen this problem.

 

Also the answer "forma your gear or get low rank gear to not waste xp" is very... VERY concerning. Does that mean this is not a discussion for possible change and path is set in stone already?

 

Why not create a clever solution, like reduce overall xp gain and split xp into stuff that is NOT fully ranked. This will result into similiar xp gain per time we have right now, but we will also level up things we want to level up, while also not being useless to my team. Currently iam not using any warframe ability that kills enemies and "steals" the xp. That's already a problem, since its getting into a way i would like to play the game, but when i press that "satisfy aoe kill everything" button, all i have in mind... "no xp for stuff i want to level up". But you see where iam going with this ramble now.

[General_Krull]

A lot (not all, but a lot) of what is being discussed here falls back to oft-mentioned problems with the melee system - the suggested shared XP change is drastically highlighting how unsatisfying/unviable many of our core players feel melee is.

That and the current and suggested exp systems do nothing or worsen the problems with ranking up. If you want to rank up multiple weapons at a time killing things actually slows you down, the new system makes it worse. 

[Sumnus]

A lot (not all, but a lot) of what is being discussed here falls back to oft-mentioned problems with the melee system - the suggested shared XP change is drastically highlighting how unsatisfying/unviable many of our core players feel melee is.

 

Could you elaborate on who DE feels are their "core" players, please? Because there's growing pockets in the community, and it's getting more and more difficult to tell who DE is trying to balance their game around. It's abundantly clear who they aren't listening to, but it's not clear at all who they are listening to.

And I don't mean this condescendingly or negatively at all, which is difficult to convey in text, i'm actually curious.

There are drastically different types of players, and it's reflected on where they are in the game:

The veterans: These tend to be founders, or simply older players who have exhausted the game's content, with hundreds if not thousands of hours logged into the game, and have been playing for months on end leveling all of the weapons and warframes, and so forth. 

The underclassmen: These people might be mastery 5-7. They've been around for a brief time, but play a decent amount. 

 

The younglings: PS4 players, who simply haven't had access to the game long enough to be in the other categories, or PC players who have recently started.

 

There are a few other categories, but that's the basics. It seems right now that the newer you are to the game, the better off you are.