Frost: 2/5/2014

[Celseus]

I guess by what you say then shooting enemies is lazy too. After all, to shoot an enemy all you have to do is press the left mouse button. Your just repeating dribble, a silly statement that's been running around the forums so long that people think its smart to say "Press 3 to win"... it has no relevance. i don't know what you want - you can always bind more keys since you want his abilities to involve more key presses or some other useless added activities.

 

As a part of a TEAM or a SQUAD it isn't lazy for the pod DEFENDER to defend the pod. The pod doesn't move around, so neither should Frost be required to run around. That's the role of other Warframes, like Rhino or Valkyr. There is nothing lazy about it - no more lazy than a sniper waiting in a hidden spot for the right opportunity. Frost was fulfilling his role, and his role was to provide protection for the pod and players. That isn't lazy - and stating how many key-presses it takes to do his ability isn't making any kind of impact on the argument - all abilities only take one key-press...

 

Snowglobe was not a press-3-to-win move anyway. It only helps to defend against certain type of fire and slow down most incoming enemies. It was perfectly good as it was. Your argument also does not consider high level play - your proposed strategy does nothing to high level enemies. Nobody needs Frost's offensive abilities - the only ability he had was Snowglobe. And yes it should last 35+ seconds - that's the whole point. This isn't Mortal Kombat, it's a squad based strategic fighting game. Nobody (but you?) is interested in every character doing the same role, pressing a million keys to do something simple - just because you don't get the basics of what kind of game this is.

 

+1

 

I'm still wondering about the rationale behind DE's decision to nerf Snowglobe this much. A question comes to mind: Do they even Frost?

[Tr1ples1xer]

Everything fun is getting nerfed or removed, welcome to WF !!, im glad I already have everything because I would not have played this much with the new nerf mentality.

[PCDeadman]

Didn't get a chance to try frost last night but just looking at the stats of Snow globe it does look like that ability will be every ineffective and not last very long at all with higher lvl enemies. On the other hand, if they buffed his other abilities that'd be sweet cause they really were pretty weak and snow globe was the only one I would use 90% of the time. 

[Turlough51]

ok so i tested this out solo on pluto / defence / narcissus with my once loved frost prime.

 

and wow i was shocked that bubble doesn't even stay long on the first 1 to 5 waves it is really useless i would be better off just hoping in my loki and throwing out decoy :D so bubble is broken ill just use a different warframe till DE sort there S#&$ out

 

but to add to this i do like the change to avalanche its a step in the right direction perhaps a few more tweaks like a tiny bit more range but it is nicer than before

[Celseus]

Frost defends.

 

Nova kills.

 

Rhino stomps.

 

Ember runs around like a headless turkey.

 

What was so wrong with Snowglobe that it needed such a bad nerf? I play Frost and I keep Snowglobe up 24 hours on higher level defence missions. Am I lazy? No. I stand on the pod, I melee anything that comes close. I run to revive allies. I snipe enemies far away.

 

Am I pressing a "I win" button? No. I freeze Napalms and bombards that could bypass my shields. I Galatine Moas that come inside my icy globe. I snowglobe allies who are down then return to my priority, the cryopod.

 

Is the snowglobe making me invunerable? No. I dodge explosions while moving within the globe. I move away from SM ladies who could pull me out of my globe. I keep them away from the cryopod. I quickly get to Ancients before they get to me within my snowglobe.

 

Is the snowglobe a spamming button? No. I max streamline. I max continuity. I get energy orbs as often as possible. I avalanche when my team mates need more time to deal with enemies. I run out of energy easily because I keep snowglobe running and it was my duty to watch my energy levels and decide between helping my team mates outside the globe with avalanche or keep the snowglobe up while they do their job knowing that I'll be there with a peace of mind.

 

Does snowglobe make me a god in every situation? No. Snowglobe buys me more time in my realm, that's all. It's a static, unmoving field in which I slow time down. If I run out of it, I have no other skills that will help me. If my team runs out of it, I have to catch up with them and waste 50 energy to place one over them. On mobile missions, I can only use it strategically when the team decides to stop. Even then, those times are rare.

 

So why would Snowglobe deserve a nerf? I don't know.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Celseus

[Bobsplosion]

Frost still defends; he is just slightly worse at it now.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Is a slow slow tank assassin.

[cesmode]

As compared to what, Molecular Prime? Does it need alot of brains to use? Ironskin? World on Fire?

 

None of these abilities require any thought as to where you are whats around you or whats going on, etc...you see mobs and just cast.  So yea, they are all no brain abilities.

 

Mprime is OP and does need to be reworked.  See mobs, cast it...pop one bubble and watch them all burst.

 

I wouldn't consider world on fire OP though...It does well vs infested.  Vs high level grineer or corpus, not so much.  Even still, comparing WoF to MPrime, the damage, ease of use, and amount of targets you can hit is far superior to WoF. 

 

When we do our derelict defense runs, we used to have a nova that would portal himself to some high level pirch with an Ogris(also needs to be reworked).  He would prime, and shoot one ogris shot and watch it all die.  50-60-70 waves of this gets boring. I literally have walked away to walk my dog while the mobs were CC'd and he would prime and fire.

 

 

So yes, there are many abilities in the game that require absolutely no though or ANY amount of strategic planning, and do more damage than any other ability.

[cesmode]

ok so i tested this out solo on pluto / defence / narcissus with my once loved frost prime.

 

and wow i was shocked that bubble doesn't even stay long on the first 1 to 5 waves it is really useless i would be better off just hoping in my loki and throwing out decoy :D so bubble is broken ill just use a different warframe till DE sort there S#&$ out

 

but to add to this i do like the change to avalanche its a step in the right direction perhaps a few more tweaks like a tiny bit more range but it is nicer than before

 

Did you rework your mods ?  Is snow globe's HP/strength now impacted by things like Power Strength? 

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Frost still defends; he is just slightly worse at it now.

Defend the first 5 wave of anything, after that is crap.

"Why i brought the Frost in High Level?" "I want to be nova now"

[ArsVampyre]

Frost's role is now to earn you 30x200 mastery points, and then get ditched.

[Celseus]

Frost still defends; he is ALOT worse at it now.

 

Edited to make sense.

[CloudPies]

Second class rhino that is literally worse at everything. He has a coat and giant boots going for him though, which is nice....

[Turlough51]

Did you rework your mods ?  Is snow globe's HP/strength now impacted by things like Power Strength? 

nope ill be honust so far ive just tested it with the old layout of duration, i probably should have listed that, but i have the mod cards to try out increasing its hp which i shall work on testing next .

 

so yup i should have clarified that i was using the old duration build and not a duration reduction with more hp build, but i shall try that out now soon tm

[FishNeedles]

His role is to defend that 20p frame slot.

[TankHunter678]

Frost still defends; he is just slightly worse at it now.

Significantly worse. Would rather take a Vauban or a Nyx. Only way I would use a Frost for their snowglobe is if we got a loki with a radial disarm build so that everything walks into the slow field instead of popping the bubble.

[RahuHordika]

An ability that literally made you invincible, DE nerfs it, people whine.

 

You guys, hahahahahahha, you guys LMAO

It's nice to know you bothered to read the OP or find out how snow globe actually works.

[cesmode]

Except that the whole point of Snow Globe is to block what is transpiring around it. When things get really bad, drop a globe. 

The worse it gets, the more you need it. 

But now, opposite to the rise in need is that the worse it gets, the less snow globe is effective. 

So when you have a problem, 10+ enemies say, snowglobe is ineffective at solving it. 

When you don't have a problem, 4- enemies, It's absolutely magical. 

That's just backwards logic. 

 

 

I think the general idea is, and DE can correct me if I am wrong, is that they want all warframes abilities to fulfill a role and be in line with other similar frames for a role.  They don't want frost/snowglobe to be one of two 100% go to frames.  They don't want you to spam 1 ability, sit back and chill.  They want to balance our the warframe selection process.  Doing a defense?  Well, my buddy is running a nyx, so we have some CC...how about some support then?  Hm, Ok trinity, oby, or Nekros?  They want you to make informed decisions on what toon to bring.  Not an automatic choice each time just because one ability had an uptime of 90% and blocked all incoming projectiles. 

 

Informed decisions.

 

Now, while I agree with the nerf, I don't agree with the pace at which they are balancing frames.  They nerfed snowglobe making it inferior to, say vauban or a nyx for defense.  If they had brought vauban and nyx into line with the snowglobe nerf, then your warframe choice becomes a bit better.  Cryo pod protection, or general CC?

 

Think of the big picture folks.  I really believe this is the start of them finally balancing out the game.  Bringing down abilities that were just automatic no brainer choices, and that really required no thought process in using, and making the warframe selection process as well as ability use more informed and more thought provoking.

 

 

edit: in short, they need to balance out multiple frames at once so that there isn't a general exodus from one frame to another. 

Edited February 6, 2014 by cesmode

[AlchemistMute]

He used to be a tank/defender hybrid with minor CC/damage abilities. Now it's been flipped. He's a CC/nuker hybrid with some defensive abilities. The issue is that damage abilities simply don't scale, and will be worthless at a high enough level. Hell, the buffs to Frost's damage scales aren't even that great. Freeze is still single-target. Ice Wave pretty much never hits anything. Avalanche is okay.

 

I do understand why Snow Globe was nerfed, but there could have been a better way to do so. Instead of using HP, they could have made it hit-based. Like.. if it takes 400 hits, it dies. Something like that.

Edited February 6, 2014 by AlchemistMute

[Dallas]

Instead of staying near the pod we have to glue him to it. Cant have those globes going down!

[TankHunter678]

An ability that literally made you invincible, DE nerfs it, people whine.

 

You guys, hahahahahahha, you guys LMAO

By the way, for clarification:

 

It's Trinity's Blessing that makes you invincible. Which by the way, that can be built to only cost 25 energy and last for ~20 seconds, so a Trinity can endlessly cast it and the team does not have to worry about anything except running out of air on survivals or no energy nightmare mode.

 

Snowglobe only blocked bullets/energy bolts from hitting those inside. Not things like explosives, railguns, or people walking into it. Only Snowglobe itself was invinicble before the nerf, and it is stationary and a huge target that is easier to hit then the side of a barn.

Edited February 6, 2014 by TankHunter678

[thegooseking]

Significantly worse. Would rather take a Vauban or a Nyx.

Which was the whole point. If you'd tried to take Nyx before, people would have said "lol y u no take frost noob".

[Blazer-X]

An ability that literally made you invincible, DE nerfs it, people whine.

 

You guys, hahahahahahha, you guys LMAO

No, Snow Globe lets you situationally avoid damage. You had to be inside and the enemies had to be firing at you. And as we are all aware, only 2/3 races even shoots and they both have melee-class units among their ranks.

 

Blessing, on the other hand, made you literally invincible regardless of what you are fighting against for a set period of time. Not to burst bubbles on Trinity players, but if that's the reason behind the nerf, it hardly make any sense why Snow Globe will be targeted before Blessing.

[SGDemonFish]

Significantly worse. Would rather take a Vauban or a Nyx. Only way I would use a Frost for their snowglobe is if we got a loki with a radial disarm build so that everything walks into the slow field instead of popping the bubble.

This is actually a pretty good idea for making use of the new globe. The only issue I'd have then is that they kept the limited duration as part of it too, so even if you avoid a large amount of damage to the globe to keep it up, it's going to disappear in 30 sec anyways.

[ThePresident777]

None of these abilities require any thought as to where you are whats around you or whats going on, etc...you see mobs and just cast.  So yea, they are all no brain abilities.

 

Mprime is OP and does need to be reworked.  See mobs, cast it...pop one bubble and watch them all burst.

 

I wouldn't consider world on fire OP though...It does well vs infested.  Vs high level grineer or corpus, not so much.  Even still, comparing WoF to MPrime, the damage, ease of use, and amount of targets you can hit is far superior to WoF. 

 

When we do our derelict defense runs, we used to have a nova that would portal himself to some high level pirch with an Ogris(also needs to be reworked).  He would prime, and shoot one ogris shot and watch it all die.  50-60-70 waves of this gets boring. I literally have walked away to walk my dog while the mobs were CC'd and he would prime and fire.

 

 

So yes, there are many abilities in the game that require absolutely no though or ANY amount of strategic planning, and do more damage than any other ability.

 

I don't share your game design philosophy.  It bores me.  And you talk like your opinion is right and everything else is wrong which is false because people have fun with the game mechanics that you despise.  Games don't have to be how you describe.  They can be successful and players enjoy them even when you despise them.