[Idea] Iron Skin Buff

[Orcot]

Update

 

Currently armor tanking on Frost and Rhino is redundant and can be pointless for some, these Tankframes start with high amount of armor to give them an edge for survivability's sake, but they both have powers that over shadow this.  Snow Globe and Iron Skin both have high health and are both meant to defend them from harm, making armor useless at times. What doesn't help is that enemies scale-up in power as one travels through the system, while the effectiveness of these powers is reduced. DE appears keen on buffing SG by factoring Frost's armor into it, so he's covered on the redundancy issue and scaling problem, but that just leaves Rhino, who will never really need armor due to the amount given compared to Iron Skin unless the player wants to do a no Iron Skin build.

 

My idea is to give Iron Skin a similar buff, the buff would add an amount of armor calculated from Rhino's armor stat and apply it Iron Skin, the calculated number would be based off Rhino's armor after mods have been applied. This would help put both tanks in the same league while supporting the power's usefulness in higher tiered missions without over shadowing Snow Globe or vice-versa.

 In early levels it might not seem like much of a change, but as one goes through out the star chart the armor application would become more and more help full as stronger enemies appear.  Keep in mind, with more numbers affecting Iron Skin it become easier to deal with an imbalance such as being OP by simply adjusting a few numbers within it's math logic as opposed to revising it several times every time the game's difficulty is changed

 

 

Honestly, more powers should have their effectiveness be factor by a Frame's stats in some way as this would help prevent scaling issues, it would help with the scaling imbalance many players have been complaining about for awhile now.  With the introduction of Damage 2.0 has come a greater need for defensive playstyles, but most of these styles ignore the Damage 2.0 outright since we have very few stats to adjust.

 

Update 2.0

 

Giving powers more interaction with a Warframes's stats and weapon's stats will increase build diversity while simultaneously eliminating rainbow-builds, this kind of interaction between stats would introduce scaling to player builds.  Warframes currently do not experience this due to their dependence on highly static independent numbers with very few performance interactions with a Warframe's effectiveness.  Leaving very few Frames viable for high level areas, if powers had more affecting other than just mods it would create more balance among frames, if warframes continue to remain over-reliant on singular modifiers the imbalances we currently experience will continue to worsen as more mods are introduced that affect said modifiers.

 

If nothing is changed, several powers will continue to under perform as the game progressively becomes more difficult with the introduction of newer enemies that provide new ways to challenge us while powers apply the same performance level as things get harder.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Orcot

[Angius]

Shhhh! DE forgot about Iron Skin, don't remind them about this skill or they'll make it unusable...

[Jamescell]

No

[DaftMeat]

Iron Skin is already affected by Power Strength (Intensify, Blind Rage)

[taiiat]

i don't really think Armor affecting those two Powers is appropriate at all.

 

not only am i pretty sure it won't be made obvious (or even remotely logical) that Armor will do this, it would mean Armor has a theoretical use (how much of a use remains to be seen - hopefully not as effective as it is on Frames themselves, otherwise it would make those two powers rather.... conveniently easy) on two frames, and generally still no use on any others, other than our odd out Valkyr who can actually use Armor in a mediocre fashion(or perhaps i should say Steel Fiber instead of Armor).

[Kinperor]

That idea was suggested on the very day that Rhino's Iron Skin was 'nerfed' to what it was today. 

 

I'd rather like it if it was implemented, but I don't think it'll happen. 

[Axeroix]

dont buff rhino then even more people would play him

[bejuizb]

He's just fine as he is now. Don't randomly start off a wildfire.

[LazyKnight]

Having Rhino's armor affect iron skin would immediately give 60% buff to rhino's effective health, if people used a max steel fiber it would more than double its effective health. I doubt it would be a good idea to make Rhino that durable.

Edited March 4, 2014 by LazyKnight

[semangka]

iron skin, is OP, there is no need to buff it i think that would be not the best idea, that would make rhino to o.p. and i my thoughts that makes the game boring, if theres no challenge, or anything like that

[semangka]

dont buff rhino then even more people would play him

Exactly, i prefer all frames be used the same, exempt the three starting frames, obviously more people with use them

[Orcot]

Iron Skin is already affected by Power Strength (Intensify, Blind Rage)

 

The scaling of powers is awful, and the mods that augment them don't add much in terms of viability other than higher numbers, which only adds a few seconds to maintaining Snow Globe and Iron Skin, the Armor stat reduces total damage applied to whatever it covers, it also comes with vulnerabilities to different damage type. if Armor were applied to Iron Skin, it would make more than just extra health without making it UP or OP and would make it easier to balance the effectiveness of the power by adjusting the math that applies the armor similar to how Warcry was buffed on Valkyr.

[Orcot]

i don't really think Armor affecting those two Powers is appropriate at all.

 

not only am i pretty sure it won't be made obvious (or even remotely logical) that Armor will do this, it would mean Armor has a theoretical use (how much of a use remains to be seen - hopefully not as effective as it is on Frames themselves, otherwise it would make those two powers rather.... conveniently easy) on two frames, and generally still no use on any others, other than our odd out Valkyr who can actually use Armor in a mediocre fashion(or perhaps i should say Steel Fiber instead of Armor).

 

Warcy and Paralyze are the only two powers in the game that are actively affected by a Frame's current stats and they aren't considered OP cause of the math logic that's applied to them which is heavily dependent stats, these same stats can be adjusted easily to balance the powers just as Valkyr has been. Paralyze was too weak at first cause Valk's shields were too small, she got more shields to buff the power indirectly, it was still too weak and wasn't worth the shield loss so it's math logic was changed to drain %50 of current shields and raised it's multiplier.

 

Balancing powers can be made a lot easier when said power has more too it than just static numbers, this was the original problem with Iron Skin from the beginning, it was too simple which could have been prevented had it not relied on such simple math.

[Orcot]

dont buff rhino then even more people would play him

 

That's because the current idea of defense in Warframe revolves around having more shields and more health, defensive mods are ignored for this reason, and most people see Iron Skin as free health, but if it had Armor applied, it would have strengths and weaknesses that could affect it's usefulness in higher tier missions.

[Orcot]

That idea was suggested on the very day that Rhino's Iron Skin was 'nerfed' to what it was today. 

 

I'd rather like it if it was implemented, but I don't think it'll happen. 

 

Back then, the damage system was dependent on static numbers, so something like this could work with Damage 2.0.

[Orcot]

Having Rhino's armor affect iron skin would immediately give 60% buff to rhino's effective health, if people used a max steel fiber it would more than double its effective health. I doubt it would be a good idea to make Rhino that durable.

 

This math would have been absolute before Damage 2.0,  it wouldn't hold the same anymore.

 

As I said, no one uses defensive mods, Steel Fiber is only considered for Valkyr cause she actually uses it and is affected by different damage types cause of this, making combat against different enemies a varied experience for her.  We don't have the same static numbers we use to anymore.

[Orcot]

iron skin, is OP, there is no need to buff it i think that would be not the best idea, that would make rhino to o.p. and i my thoughts that makes the game boring, if theres no challenge, or anything like that

 

No it isn't, if it's used on lower tiered missions it might appear to be, but once you reach lvl40+ the powers scaling issues become painfully obvious, any Frame can be OP if you use it on a planet under lvl30, things change quickly as you go up in mission tiers, and the idea of defensive-play turns into a DPS race for most Frames.

 

There is only one OP Frame and that's Nova, who can multiply the damage of already OP guns and make them even more OP, Rhino can do that too, but no where near as well as she can.

[Yaerion]

Nerf Rhino armor, he doesn't need it \o / :D

Give it to Ember.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Yaer

[Orcot]

Nerf Iron Skin yey \o / :D

 

Nay! ;P

[taiiat]

Warcy and Paralyze are the only two powers in the game that are actively affected by a Frame's current stats and they aren't considered OP

this is because what they do is not highly significant. Warcry adds a bit of Armor, which isn't bad since it's free Armor, but the only active thing it does is increase Melee Attack Speed. no issue there.

 

Paralyze has extremely little in the ways of Damage Output, and instead only really serves as a 'bad' clone of Sonic Boom. cheap conal stagger tool. since it roots you in place for the casting animation (which unlike most powers actually makes sense since Valkyr needs to stomp her foot rather than a hand wave), it's fine that it can stun Enemies for a cheap Energy cost. because ultimately what it does is not very significant.

 

so other Powers that want to base off of Warframes' stats, would need to have those stats make not very significant changes / improvements from those stats.

elsewise, we run the risk of Warframe stats superseding Mods, Mods of which are the main focal point of improving anything about our 'character'. so Mods need to supersede Warframe stats in order to encourage people using preferred frames, rather than the one with better stats.

 

edit:

 

 

but if it had Armor applied, it would have strengths and weaknesses

err..... the Damage reduction from all but 3 Damage Types far outweighs the bonus from those three(Puncture, and Corrosive/Radiation depending on what type of Armor we actually have).

 

and you don't need to spam. you can edit your posts. the ToS / EULA has a clearly marked rule that bumping isn't encouraged, but is generally flexible to allow for a bit of bumping. but this isn't a bit.

Edited March 4, 2014 by taiiat

[Yaerion]

Nay! ;P

lol

edited before your reply. :)

[LazyKnight]

This math would have been absolute before Damage 2.0,  it wouldn't hold the same anymore..

It is likely because rhino armor skin is classified as ferrite (or at least that is what the wiki claims).

 

I would +1 an idea to change steel fiber so it is useful for more than one warframe. 

 

1) DE could change Steel fiber so it gave a fixed amounts of 'damage resistance' based on rank. This would make it universally useful to all warframes.

2) Have Steel fiber apply its DR to iron skin while active. This would make it worth its mod points.

Edited March 4, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Orcot]

 

 

err..... the Damage reduction from all but 3 Damage Types far outweighs the bonus from those three(Puncture, and Corrosive/Radiation depending on what type of Armor we actually have).

 

and you don't need to spam. you can edit your posts. the ToS / EULA has a clearly marked rule that bumping isn't encouraged, but is generally flexible to allow for a bit of bumping. but this isn't a bit.

 

I don't intend for a straight application of Rhino's armor stat, just that it be applied in someway, preferably through some math logic to help balance it out.

 

Sorry if I appear to be bumping, I have a strong tendency to reply directly to comments, I'll try to update the OP for more clarity in a little.

[taiiat]

1) DE could change Steel fiber so it gave a fixed amounts of 'damage resistance' based on rank. This would make it universally useful to all warframes.

2) Have Steel fiber apply its DR to iron skin while active. This would make it worth its mod points.

- perhaps this is a better solution. it would then be like a generic version of the specific Resistance Mods. an okay reduction from Damage period, as opposed to the specifics a significant amount for that one Damage type.

 

- still not sure i like tying that stat to Powers. idunno.

Edited March 4, 2014 by taiiat

[LazyKnight]

- still not sure i like tying that stat to Powers. idunno.

It was just an idea, and I am not sure if it would be a good idea or not. I just think the resistance mods and steel fiber need to apply to more things so they have a clearer benefit in using them.

 

I am sort of against the snow globe getting Frost's armor, because DE could very easily make it trivializes everything under level 70. The same problem could happen to Rhino if his armor was applied to the Iron skin. That is the reason that I think it should just be a capped DR if done at all because armor could over buff it. If people were just allowed to stack 399 armor it would be doubling the effectiveness of iron skin.

Edited March 4, 2014 by LazyKnight