Prosecutors And Damage 2.0: Not-So-Good Design Decision

[Mopbucket0]

Well, what I do on my weapons is

A: 1 Combined Element + 1 Core Element

i.e. Corrosive + Fire or Radiation + Ice

That's just too smart and not "complainy" enough.

 

How dare you.

[Archistopheles]

Such variety. Good think I only want to play Ember.

It's also good that I want to equip all 3 weapons despite the fact that the ability not to do so has only been implemented 2 days ago.

(Just in case: that's sarcasm :P)

 

Well... You can use Frost or Saryn too if you want, or play a pug match and hope someone has the elemental you don't want to equip ^_^

[mpastor]

I have no trouble killing these guys in one to three shots.  

 

However, having written this, I have to empathize with the OP.  Making a mini-boss tough by making him immune to everything (almost) but one element is really not that imaginative.  One might use the word lazy.  I won't though.  Not to mention, there really is no mechanic enabling us to put more than one pure element type on our weapons.  What really is happening here is the developers are taking advantage of a weakness in weapon modding design (namely the inability to put more than one pure element type on a weapon) and using it against us.  

[-CM-Crazy]

 

Not everybody has 8x Forma in their weapons, you know. There are some people out there who don't even have potatoes in their weapons.

I don't even need a polarity to fit these mods, it is just 3 mods

[RealPandemonium]

If you don't want to think then look up a guide or don't play a game that requires thinking.  FFS they just came out yesterday, take some time to figure it out.  

[Mak_Gohae]

Are you trying to solo?

I think melee channel should be able to cover this. Melee channel is mega op, specially when you crit.

[DocHolliday13]

Trivial? Trivially boring and abstract.

 

What does it add to have to carry a unique loadout for a single specific enemy? It certainly doesn't add challenge. Or fun.

 

What exactly is this supposed to bring to the game?

 

Well, I kind of agree, but also disagree a bit. The unique loadout requirement is annoying, but the challenge and fun is in having to think about what you're engaging a bit more, instead of just mowing everything down (or press 4 to clear the room).

[Loswaith]

The problem is not so much the difficulity of these guys (they seem to take full crit damage actually, even when not using their element, which I expect is a bug), its more that they basically negate the entire point of the damage 2.0 update.  Damage 2.0 was meant to stop people having weapons with the basic elemental damage's on mass.

 

They could be made a lot more interesting within the damage 2.0 system, in that the combined elements do a lesser portion of damage (say 40-50% damage) because they are still made up of the primary elements (afterall combined elements contain both basic elements).  While their specific element actually does 150%-200% damage.  This means that using the single damage is a huge incentive, but not essential, you simply need the element itself in some combination to do damage.

 

Another part of the problem is some weapons that have a base combined elemental damage even if you do add the correct single element you still will do little to no damage.  This also can happen on using a combined + base elemental damage as well (though I presume both of these cases are due to bugs, as it doesnt always seem to be the case).

Edited April 12, 2014 by Loswaith

[Monolake]

oh noe now you need to chose gear and use minimal tactics, outrageous! 

 

EDIT #3: Slash damage kills them just fine

Edited April 12, 2014 by Monolake

[Maljas23]

My Dragon Nikana has no issues killing them, regardless of type.

[fatpig84]

Corrosive Cold / Corrosive Heat seems to do well.

 

So you got 2 base damage types.

 

Just make sure your 2nd elemental isn't a combo.

Edited April 12, 2014 by fatpig84

[Monolake]

Ok figured - they can be hurt by slash damage.  So if you have Synapse or Boltor with no proper element you will do ZERO, but Dread or slash melee will kill them anyway. 

[CptWasea]

That's because the guy is blocking your shots, similar to how you can now if you pull your weapon out.

 

To do damage to him, you have to face-tank him so that he's swinging instead of blocking.

About the 0 damage? No, I can confirm a weapon such as the Dual Ichor with no added element will do no damage at all unless you are facing the prosecutor weak to toxin.

If they really take slash damage though that's good information.

[Otakuwolf]

I have a 14k Paris Prime that takes them down no matter what element they are, maybe takes a bit longer than if i would have the proper build but i don't complain since are still dealable.

 

Side note: I have to thank those Prosecutors, being "forced" to work on builds i discovered better ones that even if deal lesser damage because don't work anymore around combined elements, have other more helpful effects.

[notionphil]

Well, I kind of agree, but also disagree a bit. The unique loadout requirement is annoying, but the challenge and fun is in having to think about what you're engaging a bit more, instead of just mowing everything down (or press 4 to clear the room).

What is fun about attempting to bring all 4 single elements into a mission? Either you did or you didn't. If you did, you one shot these guys. If you didn't, you slowly grind them down as they do nearly zero damage to you.

I love the fact that you can't insta kill them. But that could have been done in a much more logical way. How about they are only weak after melee counters? That would be about 100x less arbitrary and 500x less random.

My issue isn't challenge, it's yet another RNG. DE's even attempting to tie challenge to RNG at this point in time!

[Davoodoo]

They're either tanks who aren't threatening at all.

Or paper thin trash mobs.

I see no added value from them, just frustration.

 

Basic concept of artificial difficulty. Also artificial difficulty can never be balanced.

[Muminidas]

I like them being more vurnerable to specific primary elemental dmg, since I am too lazy to make different loadouts for primary, secondary and melee (ice, fire, toxic etc.) it's some kind of a challange now to kill them when all of those other enemies are running around shooting you. 

 

I don;t really mind those Prosecutors having such Elemental Shields/Weaknesses and stuff. I also don't understand ppl who dislike it. 

Players are writing on forums they want a challange and OP is writing he doesn't like to use Primary Elementals since Dmg 2.0 is out. That's the whole point of a fun, to break the order of things, to sacrafice firepower on one of your weapons to beat those guys faster or to have bigger challange with them. ^^

[syle]

I have no clue why ppl are complaining about them ?

my 3 forma soma with radiation does just fine regardless of what resistance they might have

just some of them take half a clip

and some of them take 2 clips

[Davoodoo]

I have no clue why ppl are complaining about them ?

my 3 forma soma with radiation does just fine regardless of what resistance they might have

just some of them take half a clip

and some of them take 2 clips

Ive seen them take 1 dmg from every physical source and 0 dmg from every nonmatching elemental source. Corrosive ichors for example cant kill them.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Mopbucket0]

Ive seen them take 1 dmg from every physical source and 0 dmg from every nonmatching elemental source. Corrosive ichors for example cant kill them.

SLASH DAMAGE.  Look at their health bar and it shows that they are vulnerable to it.

[Davoodoo]

SLASH DAMAGE.  Look at their health bar and it shows that they are vulnerable to it.

read again what i said.

[Mopbucket0]

read again what i said.

Ichors don't do slash damage.  Don't you know?

[Xylia]

And there's a good chance the Slash Damage thing is a bug which might get fixed.

 

Then what? We're back to 0-1 damage without the proper element?

 

And don't get me started how ludicrous it is to be forced into choosing a Slashing weapon in the first place. Yet another facet of Damage 2.0 that goes right down the drain with these guys. Damage 2.0 was supposed to make more weapons viable for more content, not LESS!

 

So we have some weapons 100% incapable of hurting any of these guys because they lack slash damage apparently. Wasn't D2.0 supposed to broaden what weapons were useful where? These prosecutors go against that. They are 100% counter-productive to the stated goals Damage 2.0 was supposed to have.

 

What challenge they are, or aren't is irrelevant. They completely defeat/negate a whole facet of the game (Damage 2.0). Why do Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0, etc if you're going to later add things that make it not matter?

 

 

 

Ichors don't do slash damage.  Don't you know?

 

I know it sailed straight over your head, but that's his point -- he should not be forced out of using his favored weapons because of these guys. Damage 2.0 was supposed to make nearly any weapon reasonably viable nearly anywhere. Now we add guys that are 100% invulnerable against a whole slew of weapons unless RNG says otherwise (and any weapon with a combined damage element are 100% useless, period).

Edited April 12, 2014 by Xylia

[Davoodoo]

Ichors don't do slash damage.  Don't you know?

Im fully aware that ichors dont do slash damage, ive given example of dual element weapon build that does 0 dmg to them.

 

And you managed to miss whole point about dual elements doing 0 dmg to these specific enemies.

 

And even then powerful weapons like boltor or latron deal 1 dmg to them, despite normally doing 3/6k to other enemies.

 

What challenge they are, or aren't is irrelevant. They completely defeat/negate a whole facet of the game (Damage 2.0). Why do Damage 2.0, Melee 2.0, etc if you're going to later add things that make it not matter?

I believe it was yet another bandaid fix for rainbow builds, make enemies that forces builds to be less rainbow.

Terribly done like all other bandaid fixes DE presented so far.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Xylia]

I believe it was yet another bandaid fix for rainbow builds, make enemies that forces builds to be less rainbow.

Terribly done like all other bandaid fixes DE presented so far.

 

Yeah, if they wanted to get rid of Rainbow Builds once and for all then they'd stop making Element Mods add extra damage.

 

Instead of, say, having a weapon that does 100 Slash/Puncture/Impact damage and equipping a +60% Fire Damage mod on and getting 160 total damage, they could INSTEAD have made it "Converts 60% Fire Damage" and made it so that you do 40 S/P/I and 60 Fire Damage for the same total of 100 damage.

 

That way you'd have no reason to tack on as many elements as you could; you'd pick only elements you were actually interested in for the elements themselves, and not "because it does more damage".