Pvp As An End-Game Option

[Boondorl]

So why are you playing this game if you think that?  At least the DE Dev talk to their players.

 

Talking and listening are two very different things. SOE talks to their players as well. Doesn't mean they're not a shady company.

[Renathy]

I literally addressed this issue. If DE can't do PvP and PvE content at the same time, I don't think they should be making a game to begin with.

 

Yeah, they're going to cease development because the game's main focus is PvE, even though they already provided us with PvP and balance it from time to time.

[Grrbacca]

Talking and listening are two very different things. SOE talks to their players as well. Doesn't mean they're not a shady company.

SOE is about the worst company to quote for making games...they took the best MMO ever, trashed it in one day...You should never, ever use SOE in a conversation about gaming companies.

[Monolake]

Like? Dark Sectors and new tilesets? I have yet to see any sort of major gameplay change since starting all the way back in U7. Perhaps you should direct them since you seem to have an idea of how to actually lead them somewhere in this game.

 

 

 

Sure. DE, hire me pleaseI I will lead you! 

 

But seriously they've been too busy with melee and other stuff, many changes and new content. You have to realise that making a good PvP would require at least half year development (gross approximation) and full team-effort, meaning they would stop doing other updates. There is such thing as priorities and clearly PvP is not on the top because most players don't want it. DE has the numbers from conclaves, if they were more popular then developer would add more PvP, but its not the case.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Oh, you mean how I literally still do nothing but stack damage? Damage 2.0 was a step in the right direction, but changed absolutely nothing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

"Changed absolutely nothing" "Now I have to actually think about which specific types of damage to stack depending on who I plan to face", yeah, no. Call me delusional then, because I think damage 2.0 was a huge gameplay change.

Prior to D2.0, there was one single build for everyone. You had either an armor pierce + rainbow build, or you had a crit build. This build would kill every enemy exactly the same.

After D2.0, you have a corpus build, a grineer build, an infested build, and a corrupted build. Each of these builds is different, because enemy resistances are different and even the new "rainbow builds" can't cover everything because of how elements combine and stack.

And then on top of that there's the proc effects. You might want to bring viral on your guns even if you're fighting infested because instantly lopping off 50% of the enemy's health is a big deal as far as time to kill goes. Radiation might not be particularly worthwhile vs corpus, but making that tech shoot his buddies like a hobo Nyx can be pretty useful. Then there's corrosive, the answer to level scaling enemies. Or gas, turning your braton into an AOE infested mulching machine.

Speaking of level scaling, D2.0 generally dealt with that problem as well. Now you can actually go 20 waves in a T3 void without having to rely totally on weapons that ignore armor.

So yeah. Call me crazy, but I'd say that D2.0 was a pretty huge gameplay change.

I'll admit, it was a nice change, but buffing weapons shouldn't be considered a major change. Melee weapons got buffs. Woohoo. This is something that was brought up about 6 months ago. The game has had awful melee weapons for the longest time, and it took DE this long just to buff them. The combo counter is nothing special, and the stances are all useless aside from Rule of Cool. This isn't exactly a major change in the way the game is played.

So the ability to actually close to melee without being gunned down due to blocking actually working effectively now is not a major change? Giving melee weapons a skill based component that allows for new effects like AOE knockdown with combos is not a major change?

What exactly would you consider a major change then?

[Naqel]

Given the recent addition to the game, DE clearly wants to have PvP.

They just either lack the resources or skills to dedicate to balancing the game in a way that'd support it.

 

Either that, or they just really have no clue what they're doing.

 

Alternately neither, but their hands are tied and their briefs are brown, with fear of alienating players if the changes necessary were to be made.

 

 

 

So the ability to actually close to melee without being gunned down due to blocking actually working effectively now is not a major change? Giving melee weapons a skill based component that allows for new effects like AOE knockdown with combos is not a major change?

What exactly would you consider a major change then?

 

Blocking actually working is not a change, it's a bugfix.

 

Melee dealing more damage is not a change, it's a balance update.

 

Stances while they are a change on the surface, functionally add nothing to the game that couldn't be achieved without them(cool animations).

 

A major change was Damage 2.0, since it added tons of new levers DE can pull or push when adjusting the gameplay balance.

 

A major change would be if the mod system got reworked from flat increases, some of which are vital for progression, to something that supports true variety and customization.

 

A major change would be doing away with the energy system and reworking the powers to work without it(which would be pretty much necessary for powers to stop breaking the game by turning the combat off).

Edited April 18, 2014 by Naqel

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Blocking actually working is not a change, it's a bugfix.

Blocking worked before mechanically, it just wasn't effective.

 

Stances while they are a change on the surface, functionally add nothing to the game that couldn't be achieved without them(cool animations).

I must have missed the part where my longsword could actually hit multiple targets back in melee 1.0-wait. And the ability for my kogake to CC multiple enemies. And, you know, the ability for my melee weapon to actually heal me.

 

A major change was Damage 2.0, since it added tons of new levers DE can pull or push when adjusting the gameplay balance.

The guy I'm talking to above says that wasn't a major change.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

unfortunately, the forums has a fairly large and active troll community =[

you could try posting your ideas in the Conclaves forums, but ironically enough, many of the carebear/antipvp types spend an incredible amount of time there just to badmouth anyone with constructive feedback

the bottom line? DE will eventually expand/enhance the current PVP options: dueling/conclaves (possibly/hopefully even adding more), but it is low on their priority list (and thats fine, they have a design philosophy they are standing behind)

but anyone who says DE 'ONLY' added PVP becuz of the community outcry is incorrect, DE stated they always intended to add/expand the PVP options, but it would be 2ndary to their primary PVE focus

lastly, personally i have no @(*()$ clue why ppl so adamantly hate PVP and/or why they even care at all (it doesnt affect them if they arent playing it anyways), but it is really quite sad how many nay-sayers spend so much energy bad-mouthing it all over the forums =[

Edited April 18, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[Retrikaethan]

basically what i've gotten from what little i have read of his stuff, Boondorl just really wants to pvp and doesn't really care about pve. is this accurate?

[Naqel]

The guy I'm talking to above says that wasn't a major change.

 

The guy above dosen't understand game design, his comments are made by what he experiences, not what lies under the hood.

Then again, Damage 2.0 is a work in progress for way too long, and Armor as a mitigation mechanic is still a thing.

 

And about multihit-longswords and lifesteal:

-Multihit-longswords were a balance thing, because DE and reasons. All melee in warframe uses tracers to find what it hits, how many of those hits apply damage is a setting, not something that Melee 2.0 was necessary to "fix".

-Adding a lifesteal mod is not a Melee 2.0 thing, it's a mod thing, and again it could have happened without Melee 2.0.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

And about multihit-longswords and lifesteal:

-Multihit-longswords were a balance thing, because DE and reasons. All melee in warframe uses tracers to find what it hits, how many of those hits apply damage is a setting, not something that Melee 2.0 was necessary to "fix".

-Adding a lifesteal mod is not a Melee 2.0 thing, it's a mod thing, and again it could have happened without Melee 2.0.

They may be a balance/mod thing, but they came in under the umbrella in melee 2.0 and made significant changes to how the game is actually played, so I'd consider them a major change insofar as contributing to melee 2.0's status as a major change.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Silverton]

I'd thought of how cool a team death match using warframes would be, but than I started to think of all the problems with trying to balance the game. These frames have powers that completely stop enemies for several seconds. Rhino has his stomp, Nova has perma slow, Trinity invincible and link, and now hydroid has damage immune for 20+ seconds. The weapons could be limited and you unlock them like in other games, but than this becomes a Halo clone. Also eventually the game would start to feel like COD and then we have 2000 12 year olds running around pretending to be my dad. 

[Shifted]

You can have your PvP on the side as long as it doesn't change ANY. SINGLE. THING. of my PvE.

[HAYABU5A]

the market is completely saturated with pvp games

 

warframe is the only rest you can get from all the pvp games u play, a change of pace and mindset 

 

seriously if you want more pvp its easy

-just close warframe

-choose from any of the many generic pvp titles available, they are everywhere and come in every flavor 

-go nuts and play your little pvp heart out  

[Hyunsai]

Please don't compare Warframe  to Guildwars 2.

 

DE team is not big enough to work on SERIOUS PvP without sacrificing PVE content.

 

As I m here for the PVE, I hereby say NO.

[Narvask]

the market is completely saturated with pvp games

 

warframe is the only rest you can get from all the pvp games u play, a change of pace and mindset 

 

seriously if you want more pvp its easy

-just close warframe

-choose from any of the many generic pvp titles available, they are everywhere and come in every flavor 

-go nuts and play your little pvp heart out  

THIS!

[(PSN)dday3six]

Why do people insist on trying to forcibly inject PVP into every game???

[Serialkillerwhale]

NO.

I'll just mention another game.

Global Agenda, a first-game for a studio and a very successful MMO

 

It had too much emphasis on it's flawed pvp, which ate up servers, and used up resources, and very little on it's highly polished and outright fun PvE.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Serialkillerwhale

[DocHolliday13]

 PvP? No.

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NO.

[mimicree]

+1 OP

unfortunately, the forums has a fairly large and active troll community =[

 

If you don't share the same opinion as someone you're considered a troll?

lastly, personally i have no @(*()$ clue why ppl so adamantly hate PVP and/or why they even care at all (it doesnt affect them if they arent playing it anyways), but it is really quite sad how many nay-sayers spend so much energy bad-mouthing it all over the forums =[

 

I agree it doesn't people are just wary of the griefer type pvp players who will start flocking here because of pvp.

[Fomiru]

Meh.

[Dogoframe]

Hmm, PvP thread, let's see...

 

Not posted in Fan Concepts or Conclave forums - check

Suggests a substantial change to what is currently in the game - check

Doesnt play or doesnt want to suggest improvements to Conclave - check

Forgets that WF doesnt have dedicated servers nor will have them in any foreseeable future - check

 

And most importantly, OP and supporters cannot grasp the concept that while people can be keen PvPers in games of their choice, they dont want any more focus in WF PvP at all.

 

1/10 wouldnt forma

[Keltik0ne]

As long as the game is running a peer to peer system for hosting then PvP should never be a focus point of any content, in my opinion.

And we have a winner - any PVP content would be tainted by the variable amounts of latency induced by the flaws built into this system.

Not to mention DE hasn't really got the hang of network code, or balance.

 

Want parkour and pvp ? Play Titanfall.

[dikki]

Lots of sensitive people in here. PVP has one advantage over PVE which is dedication. PVP players do throw themselves into the game to the max, while PVE for most people is only something to spend time with. Having PVP option and a small team dedicated to PVP balance and mods, doesn't really take anything away from the core game. As long as they don't F*** things up like happend to FireFall. That thing was a disaster. 

 

I've played comp since 1997 mainly Tribes 1 and long after that Tribes: Ascend and I am a comp player to the heart. That said, I don't want WF focus on PVP like so many other games have done and failed in the past. PVE should definately be the main focus, but the core for PVP is already there. Only small tweaks, maybe default loadouts for frames and some nice oldschool mods such as CTF and TDM and you're good to go. God, I'd so love to try that out. :)

 

But like I said, the main focus on PVE because this is imo why the game is so popular atm. Too much focus on PVP and it will have a huge chance to die out like so many other games.

[DocHolliday13]

Lots of sensitive people in here. PVP has one advantage over PVE which is dedication. PVP players do throw themselves into the game to the max, while PVE for most people is only something to spend time with. Having PVP option and a small team dedicated to PVP balance and mods, doesn't really take anything away from the core game. As long as they don't F*** things up like happend to FireFall. That thing was a disaster. 

 

I've played comp since 1997 mainly Tribes 1 and long after that Tribes: Ascend and I am a comp player to the heart. That said, I don't want WF focus on PVP like so many other games have done and failed in the past. PVE should definately be the main focus, but the core for PVP is already there. Only small tweaks, maybe default loadouts for frames and some nice oldschool mods such as CTF and TDM and you're good to go. God, I'd so love to try that out. :)

 

But like I said, the main focus on PVE because this is imo why the game is so popular atm. Too much focus on PVP and it will have a huge chance to die out like so many other games.

 

Wrong. Everquest players and WoW raiders would like to have a word with you. PvPers got nothing on PvEers for dedication and time investment. I personally have over 4K hours in WoW, about 90% of it PvE, haven't played it in 3 years, and even when I played I was far from the most dedicated PvE player of that game. I've also got over 2K hours of PvE in the original GW (which I haven't played in over 4 years due to account getting hacked), and at least another thousand or two in other games over the last 10 years. I've also got 634 hours of PvE in Warframe, and I'm nowhere near done. Please, name one game for me where you've invested 2K+ hours in just PvP, and dedicated yourself to the point you actually made schedules and set alarms so you wouldn't miss in-game events.

 

You might think I'm exaggerating or I'm an extreme example. I'm not. Back in the day when I played WoW, I knew lots of PvE players who made me look like a casual gamer.

Edited April 19, 2014 by DocHolliday13