Ability Nerfs/changes: Radial Disarm, Hysteria, Shield Polarize, Tentacle Swarm

[Yopee]

Many of you will hate me for making this thread but I just find these abilities at maximum potential to be boring easy, letting you solo through any game mode without giving the enemy a chance aside from maybe a long survival/defense mission. It dismisses difficulty and/or the need for teamwork to stay alive as well as using weapons or even moving at all in some cases.

 

The way I see it is that even if I set up a warframe to be a one trick pony with only one ability pushed to its maximum potential, I still should have at least a low level of difficulty of some sort. Some of these builds still work without using weapons or even moving.

 

There are 3 factors involved:
1. Ability - what power stats (power efficiency/strength/range/duration) affect it? All four or just power eff?
2. Corrupted mods - which power stats does it affect? Does this hinder the ability?
3. Enemy - is the ability effective against all factions/melee vs range? Is the enemy AI able to cope with the new form of combat caused by the ability?

Nerfing corrupted mods may also nerf builds using other abilities that do not completely remove difficulty.

In all honesty, I would love enemy AI buff the most but some corrupted mod ability builds straight up kill the enemies before they have a chance to fight back (Shield Polarize) while some are only dependent on the frame (Hysteria).

 

The following one trick pony builds don't have any difficulty aside from maybe disruptors/magnetic or energy leech leaders.

 

I will propose nerfs that aren't the usual decrease power strength/cost/duration/range solutions. There will be a few buffs as well. I only want to nerf the maximum potential of these abilities.

 

No exact number values. I'm suggesting ideas for mechanic changes, not final builds.

 

 

Radial Blind Almost there DE! Just let all blind enemies actually be able to fight back rather than just MOAs

Excalibur doesn't need to move to stay alive. Not sure how much simpler I can break it down.

With Energy Siphon + power efficiency + range (optional: + duration), this ability can be used continuously to keep all enemies stunned/blinded.

 

Possible ability nerfs:

1. Only blind enemies looking in Excalibur's direction.

2. Only blind enemies with Excalibur in their line of sight (no obstacles in the way blocking the blinding light).

 

Possible enemy buffs:

1. Enemies should still be able to launch attacks at Excalibur's (or teammate's) last known location (similar to Loki activating Invisibility after being seen) and continue to do so whenever Excalibur or a teammate attacks with a non-silent weapon (any ranged weapon without the noise reduction mods or Banshee's Silence debuff).

2. Introduce a new enemy/enemy leader that can remove negative status effects from enemies.

 

 

Radial Disarm

Radial Disarm removes difficulty against ranged units but is absolutely useless against infested units. I want to transfer this power over so that it can stop removing difficulty in the first case while becoming useful in the second case.

Energy Siphon + power eff + range, Disarm has no duration but is not effective against melee units.

 

Possible ability nerfs:

1. Add duration.

2. Number of enemies disarmed is dependent on power strength.

 

Possible ability buffs:

1. Removes all negative status effects from allies and applies temporary buff that prevents negative status effects from being placed on allies.

 

Possible enemy buffs:

1. Allow enemy units to retain their close range attacks (e.g. heavy grineer can still use their ground slam knockdown attack).

2. Introduce a new enemy/enemy leader that can remove negative status effects from enemies.

 

 

Invisibility/Smoke Screen Almost there DE! Just let all enemies actually be able to fight back rather than just MOAs

Energy Siphon + power eff + duration, continuous invisibility which allows for no enemy resistance and constant melee damage boost. Sentinel weapon becomes useless.

 

Possible ability nerfs:

1. Being extremely close to enemies allows them to see you like normal. If approaching the enemy from the front, Loki/Ash will be seen by the enemy when extremely close and melee attack no longer deals bonus damage because enemy is on alert.

2. Melee damage bonus scales with power strength.

 

Possible enemy buffs:

1. Enemies should still be able to launch attacks at Loki's/Ash's last known location and continue to do so whenever Loki/Ash attacks with a non-silent weapon (any ranged weapon without the noise reduction mods or Banshee's Silence debuff).

2. Introduce a new enemy leader that can cast Sonar to reveal invisible players.

 

Loki is the most fragile frame in terms of shield/health while Ash is tied with Saryn for highest health yet Loki and Ash can pretty much go through any mission without ever being attacked while standing in the enemy's face.

 

I'm fine with going through a mission without being attacked because that's stealth. You can do that even without using Loki/Ash.

 

Not being attacked while standing in the enemy's face is not stealth. This makes Loki's fragility and Ash's high health meaningless because you no longer need to sneak around to avoid being hit. You won't be hit. At all.

The enemy doesn't even notice Loki/Ash if they walk into them. That's beyond being invisible.

 

 

Hysteria

Hysteria acts as Valkyr's personal invulnerability. I want to transfer this power to a more offensive role.

Energy Siphon + power eff + duration (optional: + Rage), continuous invincibility + lifesteal (not that you would really lose health to need it).

Guns are useless, have no effect on Hysteria.

 

Possible ability overhaul (all of these changes applied together):

1. Activating Hysteria forces Valkyr to use her melee weapon rather than the claws. If no melee weapon is equipped then use the claws.

2. Channeling is allowed during Hysteria if melee weapon is equipped. All effects from channeling mods (e.g. +% channel damage, +% life steal, + or -% channeling efficiency) are increased.

3. Remove invincibility. Instead, split incoming damage on health between your health, stamina, and energy.

4. Remove lifesteal.

5. Killing an enemy marked by Hysteria activation using claws will give health, stamina, and energy. Killing an enemy marked by Hysteria activation using melee weapon will give energy.

6. Combo chain damage multiplier for claw is much higher than any melee weapon.

7. Hysteria's damage/critical/status receives a bonus based on the stats of all equipped weapons. Some examples: bring a dread/paris prime/synapse to raise Hysteria critical chance, grinlok/strun wraith/tysis to raise Hysteria status chance, ogris/penta to raise Hysteria base damage, etc.

 

 

Blessing Done, thank you DE :D

Energy Siphon + power eff + duration (optional: + Rage), continuous invincibility and heal (shield and health) for the whole team and sentinels.

 

Possible ability nerfs/changes:

1. Blessing activation triggers a brief invincible period where attacks on team are absorbed (like Snow Globe/Absorb).

2. After invincible period, each player gets a protective barrier (like Iron Skin) that blocks a certain amount of damage. 

3. Absorbed damage from invincible period is converted into a bonus for amount of damage blocked by barrier.

4. Barrier lasts until either duration has expired or each player's barrier has blocked a certain amount of damage.

5. Blessing cannot be recast until all barriers have expired/been used up.

6. Barrier not compatible with Link. When both abilities are active, Blessing barrier takes damage as usual until expired/used up then Link reflects damage back at enemy as usual.

 

 

Shield Polarize

Shield Polarize removes difficulty against shielded units (Mag doesn't need to use weapons when fighting corpus) but is absolutely useless against grineer/infested units. I want to transfer this power over so that it can stop removing difficulty in the first case while becoming useful in the second case.

Energy Siphon + power eff + range + strength, continuous removal of enemy shields (that scales with enemy level) and recharge of Mag's shield and damage over a wide area. Not effective against grineer or infested.

 

Possible ability nerfs/changes:

Will have two behaviors:

1. Remove enemy shields and convert removed shields into area damage capped to a certain percentage of enemy's health (cannot kill an enemy with Shield Polarize alone). Does not recharge team/pod's shields.

2. If no shielded enemy is in range, team and pod's shields are recharged, applies a temporary buff to team that doubles maximum shields and allows shields to recharge even while under attack. If activated while teammate is under magnetic status, teammate only loses half of current energy.

 

 

Tentacle Swarm

Tentacle Swarm removes difficulty against melee units (Hydroid doesn't need to use weapons or move when fighting infested) but has limited/situational use against ranged units. I want to transfer this power over so that it can stop removing difficulty in the first case while becoming useful in the second case.

Energy Siphon + power eff + duration, immobilizes and damages enemies in area for a long duration (a more power efficient Vortex with damage and bigger area of effect)

 

Possible ability nerfs/changes:

1. Number of enemies immobilized by tentacles is dependent on power strength.

2. Tentacles react to and travel towards enemy gunfire.

3. Tentacles travel towards waypoint marked by Hydroid.

 

 

Do keep in mind I have completely left out power strength/cost/duration/range reductions but those may be applied together with any of the above ability nerfs/enemy buffs.

 

I am not asking for a nerf of Energy Siphon even though it is present in every one of the above builds. Energy Siphon is merely an example I am using as a convenient source of energy while playing solo. It could easily be replaced with Vitality + Vigor + Rage + Life Strike or Equilibrium + a teammate Nekros Desecrate/Oberon Reckoning or a teammate Trinity Energy Vampire.

I want the abuse of energy by the above specific abilities/one trick pony solo builds to be nerfed, not Energy Siphon or teamwork.

 

Radial Blind may actually not require a nerf if all enemies could actually fight back properly blinded rather than only the fusion/corrupted MOAs, toxic ancients, and enemy leaders being capable of so.

 

Last but not least, I love using Excal, Loki, Trin, Val, Mag but these builds are so effective it actually makes the game less enjoyable both solo and with a team. Also, some of these abilities do not synergize well with other abilities. Heck, Blessing with maxed duration does not synergize well with the game at all. It's known as a god mode hack in most other games lol

 

 

Edit: Removed Energy Vampire. It's not game breaking on its own. Added Tentacle Swarm. Checked off Radial Blind, Invisibility/Smoke Screen and Blessing. 

Edited June 27, 2014 by Yopee

[Histori]

Go away.

[DarthRevan84]

My only reply to this i can give is, How about instead of nerfing the abilities why dont they just scale the enemies harder so they dont make the game so easy. Think about that ever before crying Nerf?

[Jamescell]

No, most of the nerfs you are asking for come from frames who would be pretty much useless without these abilities as they are. 

Edited April 30, 2014 by Jamescell

[shut]

Hah, I remember when just a few months ago people were going on about how Radial Disarm is useless because enemies can start one-shotting you and it doesn't even affect a third of the game. The ability hasn't been changed at all, yet here it is on a "too op and needs a nerf" thread.

 

Gotta love the buff/nerf hivemind of the Warframe forums.

[shut]

On topic:

 

Radial Blind

Possible enemy buffs:

1. Enemies should still be able to launch attacks at Excalibur's (or teammate's) last known location (similar to Loki activating Invisibility after being seen) and continue to do so whenever Excalibur or a teammate attacks with a non-silent weapon.

 

 

Invisibility, Smoke Screen

Possible enemy buffs:

1. Enemies should still be able to launch attacks at Loki's/Ash's last known location and continue to do so whenever Loki/Ash attacks with a non-silent weapon.

 

 

As a person who alternates between Ash, Excal, and Loki primarily, I can agree with these. To my understanding, the Blinded-enemies-shooting-at-sounds used to happen, but stopped working recently for some reason (although I have to test it out some more).

 

Enemies shouldn't be able to pinpoint the exact location of Invisible/Smokescreen'd attackers, though; they should just fire in that general direction. Leave the pinpointing for bosses, maybe leaders, and Stalker-esque mission crashers.

 

 

 

That said, though, these frames don't need nerfing. Nitpicky things such as this can wait until true gamebreakers have been lowered to the same level as the rest of the Frames, yet I only see one of the several gamebreaker Frames on your list. This thread doesn't promote balance, it's only going to make it worse than it already is.

Nova is fine, but Ash needs nerfing? Seriously?

Edited April 30, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Silverton]

This kind of made me sick to my stomach reading. Some of these are the only thing the frames have going for them and Valkyr is already meh enough and nobody uses energy vampire. 

[RIOT]

 

"melee attack no longer deals bonus damage because enemy is on alert."

"Melee damage bonus scales with power strength."

 

YOU LEAVE MY MELEE ASH ALONE! YOU HEAR ME!

Edited April 30, 2014 by RIOTx

[S.Fayden]

Scott I know you're lurking here, but pls, mate, don't listen to him. Just forget this thread ever happened, and we'll all be cool. 

[yarash2110]

You are asking to nerf every skill in the game, even skills that need buffs, radial blind? Radial disarm? Invis? Really? Are you drunk?

The only one tht should be nerfed is blessing, nothing else, i know shoeld polarize is op, but thts wht you get when you make a frame only ood for one faction, do you want her to be completly useless for all factions but corpus where she's fine? Honestly, did you think about those frames and how those skills are balanced before posting this? If you think the game is easy go with excalibur on a t3 survival solo, next thing you'l ask would be nerfing banshees silence...

[shut]

No, most of the nerfs you are asking for come from frames who would be pretty much useless without these abilities as they are. 

 

This, especially with Excal, Loki, and Ash.

 

The thread is trying to nerf the only abilities that makes these frames (two of which are already considered among the worst in the game, one of which is considered to be the worst) useful and viable in late game in the first place. I find it amusing that these, but not pinnacle-tier Frames such as Nova and Rhino Prime, are on your nerf-bat list.

 

 

Let's try and level the playing field a bit before nitpicking the skewed mechanics behind each ability. Take from the top of the pile first, not the bottom.

Edited April 30, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Paradoxbomb]

It seems there are a lot of people that are quick to harp on the word "nerf", while I don't agree with everything on this list, there are a few proposals that could actually work (partially anyway).

Edited April 30, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[IrisDragoon]

[BlurrE_Tempo]

You don't know what you are talking about try watching the Warframe videos again that DE made they clearly contradict what you are saying because that what the frames are pretty much used for.

[Xico.xide]

"If approaching the enemy from the front, Loki/Ash will be seen by the enemy and melee attack no longer deals bonus damage because enemy is on alert"

 

Loki's Ability is called "Invisibility" for a reason.....

 

Edit: the grineeer are watching....

Edited April 30, 2014 by Xicio

[Vargras]

I saw "Hysteria" and "Energy Vampire" and started laughing.

[yarash2110]

Im wondering if he is a trol, if he is, well played

If not, wat?

[Kaokasalis]

After reading through this it seems to me you have no concept of balance.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Fully agreed, and while you're at it give Rhino another 15% sprint speed boost and M-Prime a larger chain reaction AoE.

Edited May 1, 2014 by AuroraSonicBoom

[TioMegaManX]

My only reply to this i can give is, How about instead of nerfing the abilities why dont they just scale the enemies harder so they dont make the game so easy. Think about that ever before crying Nerf?

I have a better one, why not scaling and buffing the other frames whose abilities and overall performance are overshadowed by the OP frames? you know, because no matter how "Blessed" you are when your enemies take 2-3 magazines to die anyway even with corrosive proc.

[shut]

Fully agreed, and while you're add it give Rhino another 15% sprint speed boost and M-Prime a larger chain reaction AoE.

 

Don't forget to take away Shock's totally gamebreaking chain-stunning and lower Teleport's detection range to 25m.

 

EDIT: And make Terrified enemies run faster.

Edited May 1, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Wallace24]

changing blessing to more like new snow globe, with the invincibility period+extra damage absorption from that, that might be pretty good. we'll see how DE decides to deal with trinity's planned changes

 

I'm not going to comment on everything else, all these other guys ^ know way more about loki, ash, and excal than I do, but mag's Shield Polarize is one of the best balanced skills in the game. and your proposed changes would ruin it's utility and damage-dealing ability. it's one of the few skills that scales with enemy level and doesn't drop off in damage once enemies get too strong (sorry nova, I'll take a mag over you any day against corpus and corrupted). yes, it strips enemies of shields, but not health, you still have to deal with that. plus it's great to recharge your shields in a pinch. the reason we don't have more abilities like it is that there wouldn't be a way to scale an ability off of health in the same way. only shields work like that without being a broken ability

 

also, who uses EV? not worth it

[yarash2110]

Lol this thread is exploding

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

Did I read it right, nerf Radial Blind??????

 

[Brahmastra]

Instead of nerfing frames into the ground.. why not buff enemies?