Rescue 2.0 Levels And Current Stealth: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly And The Buggy

[Kaotyke]

First things first, we are heading to the direction of making this Image true:

 

Now, on the feedback.

 

The Good:

The layout of the Prison Cells... the Art and Design teams has my compliments, it took me a while to reallize that there is an alternative entrance to the prison aside from the big door on the front, and that is a good alternative to the type of gameplay of killing everything in the room.

 

Though, if you want to kill everything in the room, you can do so, and there are alternatives around to do so, the Title set is spacious and there are a lot of places to climb to and be able to snipe from there, and get to other parts of the room without being seen, THIS is stealth.

 

When I heard Scott say that when we were detected they would give us a time before they execute the Hostage, I was wary, VERY wary, did it mean the moment an enemy sounded the alarm we would have to rush to the rescue before it was too late? I'm GLAD that was not the case, the Wardens themselves must be the ones to see us for the execution to begin. So it gives us a window of opportunity, well done.

 

The Bad:

The number of enemies in the whole map is ENORMOUS, if this was a survival mission I would be glad about the number of enemies I see in a single room, but then again this is supposed to be a PRISON, so its normal to have so many patrols, HOWEVER the current title sets makes the stealth alternative VERY hard or even impossible to pull off.

 

Aall Title sets begins and ends in a chokepoint, there are no alternatives to pass to the next set, only that door/corridor and guess what? Its FULL of enemies, I stood there for 5 minutes waiting for the enemies to look the other way, and when 1 looked away, another looked back, seemly at random.

 

I know you guys are implementing stealth mechanics bit-by-bit, but its just a heads up for the Art/Design teams that in the future, they will have to remodel the old sets, maybe make the new ones already with the stealthy alternative path ready?

 

And please, the in-game VOIP needs work. (from what I hear PS4 players wont have problems with it, but us PC players....)

 

I found a Topic in General Discussion about it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225507-rescue-20-step-in-the-right-direction-for-stealth/

 

The Ugly:(It will be more about the enemies, I'm not sure if this should be in the Maps & Levels Feedback)

Its not much in terms of mechanics but, there are some enemies in the room, and I find one enemy facing away from me, I'm able to hit him with a Stealth Attack or the Bow/Silenced Weapon and what happens? "AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!"......that is the sound they make, I was able to kill an enemy silently and they make a wail that can wake up the dead.....and no one cares, not a single enemy was disturbed by the scream of a dying comarade.

 

And when I get spoted? "rrua?" that is the sound they make, a makes me sure that is the Grineer variation of the "huh?" we had when they spoke English, and the enemy in the other side of the room becomes alerted, and they. dont. stop. spawning. The enemies in the room were alerted by a questioning sound, if they screamed something like "TENNO!!!" I would understand, but its a small sound and it alerts everyone and their tubemother that we are there.

 

The wrost offender? Rollers and Ospreys. Ospreys I can understand that the Corpus probably made them use a code in their helmets that when a Osprey sees us it alerts the others, but Rollers? I'm SURE the Grineer dont have the technology to make the same thing, so HOW is the "trinktrink" sound of the Rollers any different from when they see us? Also we dont see wich way the Roller is facing if we see the rolling part towards us (is it the back or the front?)

 

And there is also another thing, make enemies stop spawining if we are not seen, many patient players can wait for an enemy to look away from the door you are beside of, and then one enemy spawns in the closet right in the room you are and spots you... the patience game didnt pay off.

 

The Buggy:(It will be about the hostage AI, again, not sure if it should be in this section)

The AI of the Hostage, sometimes they DONT follow the same path we do and go all the way around in a place full of enemies or into Arc Traps or up and down a map, I once stayed in the same spot waiting for the Hostage to get where I was for 2 minutes, then I went after him and stayed close to see wich path was best.

 

And there are times the Hostage just up and vanishes just to reappear in the front of me or with my squad that rushed ahead, one second I look at the map, he is in the last title set, I see him there, he vanishes and doesnt appear for a while but we can see his symbol floating in the air, and then he appears again.

 

People in the General Discussion have been saying the AI grows "Bold" with a gun and rushes ahead and into a horde of enemies, I have not seen this happen yet, but i will post the link here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225600-the-hostage-is-an-idiot-the-ai-needs-not-have-rambo-as-a-preset/

 

So far, what I have to say about the Rescue 2.0:

 

Its a good mechanics that as any new one, needs works and feedback from the players(wich I'm doing). Its new so I can understand the kinda buggy mechanics.

 

The older tile sets will be in need of a revamp no doubt, the fact that to get to one set to another we can only go through a single door that may be watched at all times makes stealth without Loki/Ash a mood point.

 

We are getting there, bit by bit.

 

This is the Feedback of a Beta Tester, where is my paycheck? ;p

 

 

Edit: grammar errors

 

Edit2: Found the Topic about chockepoints and narrow title sets

Edited May 2, 2014 by Kao-Snake

[PsychedelicSnake]

Yep. It's not perfect, by any means, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. All it takes is a foot in the door, and DE has their foot in said door. I'm eager to see what comes next.

[TheErebus.]

 

The Bad:

The number of enemies in the whole map is ENORMOUS, if this was a survival mission I would be glad about the number of enemies I see in a single room, but then again this is supposed to be a PRISON, so its normal to have so many patrols, HOWEVER the current title sets makes the stealth alternative VERY hard or even impossible to pull off.

 

 

 

I agree with how the amount of enemies in the map are way too much, but it would make more sense for the amount of you were caught. Let's say a maximum of 15 enemies at the start. Each of them patrolling the map, this will allow you to stealth your way to the holding area. However, if you were caught or if you were planning on just barging your way through, then you would have multiple enemies crowding in to stop you.

[Goosmo]

Enemies also turn around, runs and attack you IMMEDIATELY when being alerted, they don't even think about saying something like "what was that" in grineer language. When they walk away and hear a scream because a player killed the enemy, they should look back, their body should turn around and walk slowly towards the scream while looking alerted, and only become fully alerted when seeing the player.

 

(srry for bad grammar)

[BabyKurama]

+1 for the Pic ^^

[Frigglish]

It just needs a little tighter spawn control, in my experience. Six Wardens on Mars, patrolling in pairs, and Grineer spawning in the room with the double-locked door behind me while I look for a gap in the route... one of the few missions where you can do everything right and the game just gives you a loss.

[Sylviras]

What's wrong with needing Ash / Loki to get the job done?  I admit it would be a little limiting to have all the rescue missions with bottlenecks that need them, but I think it would be nice to have one or two that end up being a "specialist" mission, if you will, something that makes it easier to do with certain 'frames and harder to do with others.  Keep in mind I would only suggest this for a select few missions, not across the board - that would stagnate the overall set of missions IMO.  Now that we have the likes of 'frames such as Zephyr and Hydroid, I am waiting for missions completely or predominantly underwater that will, game mechanics wise, make hydroid's powers advantagous over other 'frames powers, or a map that's mostly vertical fighting / platform jumping and such, that'd not neccessarily require Tailwind, Dive bomb etc., but that would make it a hell of a lot easier.

[Keiiken]

Using silence mods on your weapon reduces enemy perception but does nothing about how its heard to your teammates.
Sniping the Wardens with a silence Snipetron Vandal worked fine until we got a new player in the mission who missed where I said the sniper was silenced and at the first shot he went zerg and almost got the hostage killed.

[Kaotyke]

What's wrong with needing Ash / Loki to get the job done?  I admit it would be a little limiting to have all the rescue missions with bottlenecks that need them, but I think it would be nice to have one or two that end up being a "specialist" mission, if you will, something that makes it easier to do with certain 'frames and harder to do with others.  Keep in mind I would only suggest this for a select few missions, not across the board - that would stagnate the overall set of missions IMO.  Now that we have the likes of 'frames such as Zephyr and Hydroid, I am waiting for missions completely or predominantly underwater that will, game mechanics wise, make hydroid's powers advantagous over other 'frames powers, or a map that's mostly vertical fighting / platform jumping and such, that'd not neccessarily require Tailwind, Dive bomb etc., but that would make it a hell of a lot easier.

There's noting wrong about using frames speciallized for Stealth like Loki and Ash, but we have to make the game to be accessible for any player, not everyone has those 2, remmember this, and there is the challenge factor, those 2 turn the mission easy, but I'm sure there are players that will want to try the Solid-Snake Style Stealth for fun, and we have to have title sets for this to be possible.

[Slurmageddon]

I agree with all of this. Especially about the patience not paying off with continuous spawning.

 

There are other things to mention too, like "un-stealth-able" moments where an enemy patrol is coming and there is literally NO way to progress without alerting everyone.

Or one way passages being full of a whole squad.

 

For stealth to be viable or even possible there must always be a way to do it sneakily. 

Way way wayyyy too often have I run into a situation where I thought "wow, If I wasn't Loki right now I would be completely screwed."

 

Also, on the grineer tilesets, the massive clusterfuck of arc-traps around the prison cell is complete BULL S#&$! 

They do not add to fun! They do not make it challenging, they just make it nearly impossible to progress without cleaning them up with a rifle.

You cannot stealth past them. You cannot parkour past them, you cannot use any of the tools at your disposal to overcome them as a problem, you just have to hope you picked off all the enemies in that tile because the chore of picking the traps off is not going to be quick, or graceful, or stealthy.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Santaphrax

[Kaotyke]

Also, on the grineer tilesets, the massive clusterfuck of arc-traps around the prison cell is complete BULL S#&$! 

They do not add to fun! They do not make it challenging, they just make it nearly impossible to progress without cleaning them up with a rifle.

You cannot stealth past them. You cannot parkour past them, you cannot use any of the tools at your disposal to overcome them as a problem, you just have to hope you picked off all the enemies in that tile because the chore of picking the traps off is not going to be quick, or graceful, or stealthy.

After the first time I passed there and saw those traps, I decided to "screw the front door, Im entering from the back", I kill the Wardens and eneter through the Hole on the left of the Main Gate.

[[DE]Whirrrrr]

Thanks for your detailed feedback, much appreciated!

 

The Bad:

The number of enemies in the whole map is ENORMOUS, if this was a survival mission I would be glad about the number of enemies I see in a single room, but then again this is supposed to be a PRISON, so its normal to have so many patrols, HOWEVER the current title sets makes the stealth alternative VERY hard or even impossible to pull off.

 

All Title sets begins and ends in a chokepoint, there are no alternatives to pass to the next set, only that door/corridor and guess what? Its FULL of enemies, I stood there for 5 minutes waiting for the enemies to look the other way, and when 1 looked away, another looked back, seemly at random.

 

I know you guys are implementing stealth mechanics bit-by-bit, but its just a heads up for the Art/Design teams that in the future, they will have to remodel the old sets, maybe make the new ones already with the stealthy alternative path ready?

 

And please, the in-game VOIP needs work. (from what I hear PS4 players wont have problems with it, but us PC players....)

 

I found a Topic in General Discussion about it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225507-rescue-20-step-in-the-right-direction-for-stealth/

 

The Ugly:(It will be more about the enemies, I'm not sure if this should be in the Maps & Levels Feedback)

Its not much in terms of mechanics but, there are some enemies in the room, and I find one enemy facing away from me, I'm able to hit him with a Stealth Attack or the Bow/Silenced Weapon and what happens? "AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!"......that is the sound they make, I was able to kill an enemy silently and they make a wail that can wake up the dead.....and no one cares, not a single enemy was disturbed by the scream of a dying comarade.

 

And when I get spoted? "rrua?" that is the sound they make, a makes me sure that is the Grineer variation of the "huh?" we had when they spoke English, and the enemy in the other side of the room becomes alerted, and they. dont. stop. spawning. The enemies in the room were alerted by a questioning sound, if they screamed something like "TENNO!!!" I would understand, but its a small sound and it alerts everyone and their tubemother that we are there.

 

The wrost offender? Rollers and Ospreys. Ospreys I can understand that the Corpus probably made them use a code in their helmets that when a Osprey sees us it alerts the others, but Rollers? I'm SURE the Grineer dont have the technology to make the same thing, so HOW is the "trinktrink" sound of the Rollers any different from when they see us? Also we dont see wich way the Roller is facing if we see the rolling part towards us (is it the back or the front?)

 

And there is also another thing, make enemies stop spawining if we are not seen, many patient players can wait for an enemy to look away from the door you are beside of, and then one enemy spawns in the closet right in the room you are and spots you... the patience game didnt pay off.

 

Did you encounter lots of enemies before reaching the prison tile or after?  Reinforcements spawn continuously if the timer is set off until it finishes. Reinforcement count scales depending on level difficulty and number of players.  We can work on the spawning pattern here to include a few breaks and tweak the numbers if needed.

 

If we were to support stealth more fully across entire levels, some tiles would definitely need additions and reworks as well as systemic AI changes.  The problem with door chokepoints goes beyond the design of the individual tiles currently as our procedural levels are built by connecting up tiles at single matching doorways.

 

Patrol routes, placement and timing in the prison tile are configured manually by a designer, versus procedurally spawned enemies in the rest of the level who create their own patrol routes.  Keeping stealth setups to a single tile (for now), allows us designers much finer control over enemies and events which occur there.  Predictability is really important in stealth; like you said, having 5 enemies spawn in a corridor and unpredictably turn around to face you is far from ideal.

 

Good point about the 'rruh?' sound Grineer wardens make when alerted, I think we could have them say something more like 'They're here! Kill the hostage!' (in Grineer language).  It would help draw attention to any alerted wardens who are about to run for the console too.

 

 

It just needs a little tighter spawn control, in my experience. Six Wardens on Mars, patrolling in pairs, and Grineer spawning in the room with the double-locked door behind me while I look for a gap in the route... one of the few missions where you can do everything right and the game just gives you a loss.

There should never be any wardens patrolling in pairs or following closely on same route together.  The latest hotfix addressed an issue which made it possible to spawn more wardens using the entrance co-op door.  Mars has 3 wardens plus 1 random enemy patrolling in the prison room.

 

 

There's noting wrong about using frames speciallized for Stealth like Loki and Ash, but we have to make the game to be accessible for any player, not everyone has those 2, remmember this, and there is the challenge factor, those 2 turn the mission easy, but I'm sure there are players that will want to try the Solid-Snake Style Stealth for fun, and we have to have title sets for this to be possible.

We definitely don't want to force a specific play style or Warframe here.  The prison tiles are intentionally large with lots of routes and potential strategies.  Loki and Ash allow for easier up-close stealth takedowns and avoidance of enemies at close range, but it's possible to stealthily kill all enemies in the room by using cover, vents and watching patrol routes with any Warframe.  Alternatively, you can avoid the wardens altogether on the way in and kill them once the hostage is released.

 

Also, on the grineer tilesets, the massive clusterfuck of arc-traps around the prison cell is complete BULL S#&$! 

They do not add to fun! They do not make it challenging, they just make it nearly impossible to progress without cleaning them up with a rifle.

The number of arc traps was reduced in the last hotfix, there are now three close to the main prison door.

[Kaotyke]

(1)Did you encounter lots of enemies before reaching the prison tile or after?  Reinforcements spawn continuously if the timer is set off until it finishes. Reinforcement count scales depending on level difficulty and number of players.  We can work on the spawning pattern here to include a few breaks and tweak the numbers if needed.

 

If we were to support stealth more fully across entire levels, some tiles would definitely need additions and reworks as well as systemic AI changes.  The problem with door chokepoints goes beyond the design of the individual tiles currently as our procedural levels are built by connecting up tiles at single matching doorways.

 

Patrol routes, placement and timing in the prison tile are configured manually by a designer, versus procedurally spawned enemies in the rest of the level who create their own patrol routes.  Keeping stealth setups to a single tile (for now), allows us designers much finer control over enemies and events which occur there.  Predictability is really important in stealth; like you said, having 5 enemies spawn in a corridor and unpredictably turn around to face you is far from ideal.

 

(2)Good point about the 'rruh?' sound Grineer wardens make when alerted, I think we could have them say something more like 'They're here! Kill the hostage!' (in Grineer language).  It would help draw attention to any alerted wardens who are about to run for the console too.

(3)The number of arc traps was reduced in the last hotfix, there are now three close to the main prison door.

(1) it normally happens in the Neptune Title-Set, there are times I've seen the room full of red when I use enemy radar, as you said the number of enemies scale with the number of players, I can see why its empty now since I'm soloing.

 

(2) The "rruh?" sound is made by all Grineer, not just the Wardens, and it seems to alert the others when this happens, if possible, there is a way to give the players 1 second before they alert the others, like in Metal Gear Solid, but unlike the slowdown, you make the Grineer look startled for that 1 second, it can give us the window of opportunity to silence him before the others are alerted.

 

Ex:

Grineer sees a Tenno

Grineer: Rruh?! (he looks startled for the duration of this act, lasting 1 second)

If we fail to silence him, by killing him or using Banshee's Silence in that split second and it affects him, he will shout something like "TENNO!!" or anything else that alerts the others.

 

(3) I'm not sure why reducing the number of traps was needed, we had an access to the prison to the right of the door...  some players seems to like to be courteous and enter by the front door instead of breaking in it seems....

[NetSlayer]

 

The number of arc traps was reduced in the last hotfix, there are now three close to the main prison door.

I think arc traps need to take stealth into account. Or be actively deployed by units if they are suspicious.

Right now, the presence of arc traps break stealth and solo entirely.

[Huryiade]

Following the answer from the staff, i'd like to add my view on this :

 

1) I absolutely liked the high amount of arctraps. It stops directly all speedrunning idiots that failed to understand the concept of the mission.

 

2) There are many hidden spots in all of tilesets. But most of the time they don't lead anywhere. For example, i recently did a solo run on Jupiter:Ganymede. After i went down a lift, i found a breakable vent which i followed to a small room with a door, and it was locked. Now i was in that tileset often, and took a similar path with the same breakable vent, but it never led to anywhere other than that small room with a locked door. It could be used for a stealth path. It's a corpus tileset, but the same can be said about Grineer tilesets. I often solo missions, and when i do i explore the maps, and find lots of hidden paths, but they never can be used in the heat of action because most of the mission don't have stealth approach to them.

 

3) Some of the stealth routes are patrolled : i used one of the vents in the prison, and was followed by a roller. Fortunately i could kill it stealthily with my Loki, but is that intended?

 

4) I don't like the idea fo the Wardens needing to actually see a Tenno to initiate the killswitch. At the moment it is necessary to do it that way since stealth isn't finished, but in my opinion, that allows way much leeway for speedrunning. Once finished, i think rescue missions should implement activation of the killswitch at the first alarm triggered by any enemy. This would cut off any attempt of speedruning, or at least any reckless run'n'gun.

 

5) I do agree with the 1 second startle of any enemy seeing a Tenno. If you have to ask why being startled...let's say that Tenno killing thousands of members of all factions, daily, would be enough to instill fear in any member of said factions.

 

Edit :

6) Yes, as NetSlayer stated : i don't understand arctraps being able to attack invisible Tenno. Are they electrically charged? In which case they should attack anything in their range, not only Tenno. Otherwise they should attack only the enemies they see.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Huryiade

[Blackout751]

I don't know about anyone else, but I found Rescue 2.0 to be the most enjoyable mission DE have created so far - on par with Survival and maybe Interception. When I calculated that I'd need approximately 16 - 20 runs to get the Rakta Syandana, not once was I unhappy to do this. I was enjoying it, choosing different routes and looking at alternate options - the choice of full-on stealth or running and gunning. With the constant threat hanging of the hostage's death or execution, it gave everything the tension the mission so dearly needed before.

 

And yes, I was able to do a full stealth run without being spotted or the execution switch activating.

 

Therefore, this was without a doubt the most fun I've had when faced with something that, at first, felt like it was going to be pure hell.

[machinech]

Just wanted to chime in for those devs that might read this...

 

What the OP said x10!

 

That said, I'm absolutely thrilled to see this new element to gameplay! To reiterate though, the bits about mob AI and spawning... Pardon here as I don't know the exact mechanics so I'll do my best to explain my point, bear with me.

 

Mobs appear to spawn based on certain trigger zones. **I'm hoping it's unintentional that stepping 4ft across an open floor to pick up an energy sphere results in 4-6 mobs spawning out of thin air in locations that had no way of concealing, much less allowing entrance to, a mob and his buddies.** Currently if you are unfortunate enough to have to backtrack multiple times through such a zone (assuming they exist) you wind up with several spawns worth of enemies. Add to that the fact that now each an every one of them, now alerted, keeps bringing friends to the party... well you get overwhelmed, in what seems to be, a potentially unintended fashion. I don't mind extra enemies come'n to the alert. I do mind them somehow appearing in numbers 2ft behind me in a room with one door, that I'm standing in, that was DEFINITELY clear .02 seconds ago. Clown car spawns work at a distance just fine, but in close proximity, it just starts to feel fustratingly hokey, when combines with other unfinished mechanics. Also mobs endlessly streaming into a room when there is no ship/location wide alarm, just alerted enemies in the vicinity, seems to run counter to the entire mechanic of having 3 alarm states (unalerted/spotted/lockdown). I would think that without a ship/location wide alert, ONLY mobs in the room your in should be streaming in, and hopefully not out of dead end rooms lacking more then one door. (rooms with two doors, and one locked at least makes some sense for allowing enemy entry)

 

I look forward to seeing some eventual tweaks/changes to stealth, enemy ai, and spawning. I think work in those 3 categories can make what is currently a good addition into a truly impressive feature.

 

**Edit: Additional: Pathing while patched for some places is still buggy. Mars: Valis.... just failed 2 for 2 due to pathing (hostage gets stuck an refuses to budge) on Corpus tileset but Valis node listing as Grineer. In this case you have two options...stand there endlessly "protecting" him (pointless), or pray for the best and make a dash for the exit (in which case it's possible to make it, but often just winds up with hostage getting mobbed and bleeding out before you can make it).

Edited May 3, 2014 by machinech

[Terrornaut]

As of this most current patch, wardens can still end up on the same pathway.  I had a lifeleech heavygunner leader warden trailing about 4 steps behind another warden on the Nereid map.

Enemies will continue to spawn if you're detected at any point....and I swear rollers detect you -_-

Interestingly enough, IMO, the stealth frames are the least interesting frames to do stealth missions...but I'm generally an advocate against easymode invisibility passing for stealth in games.  In this particular case, you just bypass everything and don't really do anything until the end. Meh.

 

Would be nice and sensible if Lotus had a voiceover saying all wardens have been neutralized rather than the game-y point tally.

[Frostmire]

Stealth play can never be a thing with the current state of the game . There's no alternative route , no shadow for you to hide , every room is full of enemies , stealth attack is a joke ..etc ...

[Nyss]

BUG: I rescued the hostage at 0:00 on the death timer. He ran out, intact, thanked me for saving him, and then the mission ended because he 'died'. This was incredibly demoralizing and killed my urge to continue playing. A last moment rescue like that should NOT be rewarded with failure. Not in a game.

[avinity8]

I don't know about anyone else, but I found Rescue 2.0 to be the most enjoyable mission DE have created so far - on par with Survival and maybe Interception. When I calculated that I'd need approximately 16 - 20 runs to get the Rakta Syandana, not once was I unhappy to do this. I was enjoying it, choosing different routes and looking at alternate options - the choice of full-on stealth or running and gunning. With the constant threat hanging of the hostage's death or execution, it gave everything the tension the mission so dearly needed before.

 

And yes, I was able to do a full stealth run without being spotted or the execution switch activating.

 

Therefore, this was without a doubt the most fun I've had when faced with something that, at first, felt like it was going to be pure hell.

 

 

Same here, though I think I still favor Interception more. Just wish that it was on more than one planet, especially on Ceres  :\

 

But yea Rescue 2.0 is highly enjoyable, especially with the hostage actually not being a burden but still needing to be watched over. Love his speed. Love the wardens and breaking and the kill count down, etc.

[unknow99]

Following the answer from the staff, i'd like to add my view on this :

 

1) I absolutely liked the high amount of arctraps. It stops directly all speedrunning idiots that failed to understand the concept of the mission.

 

2) There are many hidden spots in all of tilesets. But most of the time they don't lead anywhere. For example, i recently did a solo run on Jupiter:Ganymede. After i went down a lift, i found a breakable vent which i followed to a small room with a door, and it was locked. Now i was in that tileset often, and took a similar path with the same breakable vent, but it never led to anywhere other than that small room with a locked door. It could be used for a stealth path. It's a corpus tileset, but the same can be said about Grineer tilesets. I often solo missions, and when i do i explore the maps, and find lots of hidden paths, but they never can be used in the heat of action because most of the mission don't have stealth approach to them.

 

3) Some of the stealth routes are patrolled : i used one of the vents in the prison, and was followed by a roller. Fortunately i could kill it stealthily with my Loki, but is that intended?

 

4) I don't like the idea fo the Wardens needing to actually see a Tenno to initiate the killswitch. At the moment it is necessary to do it that way since stealth isn't finished, but in my opinion, that allows way much leeway for speedrunning. Once finished, i think rescue missions should implement activation of the killswitch at the first alarm triggered by any enemy. This would cut off any attempt of speedruning, or at least any reckless run'n'gun.

 

5) I do agree with the 1 second startle of any enemy seeing a Tenno. If you have to ask why being startled...let's say that Tenno killing thousands of members of all factions, daily, would be enough to instill fear in any member of said factions.

 

Edit :

6) Yes, as NetSlayer stated : i don't understand arctraps being able to attack invisible Tenno. Are they electrically charged? In which case they should attack anything in their range, not only Tenno. Otherwise they should attack only the enemies they see.

I agree with all your points Except the fourth one : you're right, alert setting outside of the hostage's room should result in the execution process but at the first alarm? In the current state of the game it would be harder than hard (also,imagine that you get detected right at the beginning of the  mission,or you're playing a fire-hazard mission and everyone gets alerted when one grineer walks on fire without your help)

What I mean is after 2 alarm set on outside of the hostage room => we're under attack => kill the red veil dude. Rushers will change their mind without being too mmuch punished.

[TheOldOne]

A comment on the reward system: YES, YES, YES!

 

I've been getting seriously cheesed off with my repeated disappointments while trying to get a boltor prime blueprint; and while I'm not really interested in the rewards for these missions, I do like their predictability.

[LGear]

I agree with all your points Except the fourth one : you're right, alert setting outside of the hostage's room should result in the execution process but at the first alarm? In the current state of the game it would be harder than hard (also,imagine that you get detected right at the beginning of the  mission,or you're playing a fire-hazard mission and everyone gets alerted when one grineer walks on fire without your help)

What I mean is after 2 alarm set on outside of the hostage room => we're under attack => kill the red veil dude. Rushers will change their mind without being too mmuch punished.

 

I do like this idea for the rescue missions, giving the player leeway to make a mistake while still punishing him for constantly tripping the alarm, though I think it should be three trips instead of just two. We can also add the idea that if a console isn't hacked to silence the alarm within a certain period of time - say, 30-45 seconds after tripping an alarm -, then the same result of the execution system going off would occur, thus making alarm hacking more urgent.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/225507-rescue-20-step-in-the-right-direction-for-stealth/#entry2612218'>I've also chimed in on Rescue 2.0 and Stealth in the general discussions, and pretty much agree with all of the OP's points on the issue. Rescue 2.0 is great because it allows for stealth to be viable, even if at least for one map tile.

[Clats01]

IMO the amount of enemies is fine, these are meant to be maximum security prisoners, thus a large amount of security, so they wouldn't want to risk a break out, yes this makes stealth hard, but not imposable.

 

The one thing i did find annoying was the amount of arch traps in the ceres recsuce, my friends and i scouted before killing the wardens and we counted something like 18 just in front of the door and around the terminal to get the the holding cells, and maybe another 10 or so around the room other than that im fine with how this plays