Thank You For Watching Devstream #32!

[Celle-Reveris]

Pretty good devstream, didn't really cover anything too new or groundbreaking but was entertaining none the less.

(loved Steve's response to the Mod system vs. Skill tree question, to be honest)

[Hastelfel]

I enjoyed stream #32, stream #31 was a hard act to follow! but this one was very informative.

One of the people in question was at their job representing their company and one was a disgruntled customer. There is a right and wrong way to deal with things, especially criticism. You can not try to build a community where everyone is invited to state their opinion (even if it isn't kind) and then stomp all over it in a fit of anger. I don't believe Rebecca got to fully ask the question correctly to begin with because she was constantly being cut off.

cant fault someone for being passionate about thier work and besides, considering the frustation evident on steves face i still think he managed to make good points in defence of the mod system.

 

I dont think it is their final product but that question was loaded.

[S3EK3R]

You ninja'd me! I wanted to say that there are a few people around here who will very much appreciate the Darvo quest, but looks I was late 10 minutes. Dammit.

 

Now for real: DAT TONFA! OH GOD! *fanboying*

Ever since TRON: Legacy and The Raid: Redemtion I am a total fan of Tonfas. They are VERY cools weapons in the right hands. And these ones are bladed! YAY!

[TC-Guardian]

Idk what it is, but Scott looked less stressed out this stream. Yay! :D

[Barbetti]

On the topic of mods, I think a big issue is how they are applied to the Warframe, weapons, and Sentinel. To use Warframes as the example, you have 10 slots for mods, 4 of which are typically used for the Warframe's abilities assuming one or two aren't completely useless. So that leaves you with 6 slots. Then you add the "mandatory" mods like Vitality and Redirection and so on. Mods like elemental resistances end up being useless.

 

I still stand by the idea to separate Warframe abilities from the Warframe mods and make them inherent. So that gives you 10 full slots to mod, plus the Warframe abilities which I think if you give 3 slots to mod with ability-affecting mods will make for more varied builds. Using Ember? Do you want you Fireball to shoot farther, have a bigger blast radius, or deal a higher/longer lasting status? Mod it the way you would like it. 

 

They just need to change the way mods are applied so players have ways to apply less-used mods without trading-off mandatory mods. 

 

P.S. Vor's Demotion - It appears that the Grineer use military ranks similar to the U.S. NAVY. Commissioned Officer ranks (as opposed to non-Commissioned Officer) go Ensign, Lieutenant Junior Grade, Lieutenant, Lt. Commander, Commander, Captain, Rear Admiral (Lower half), Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, Fleet Admiral, and Admiral of the Navy. So Vor got a pretty hefty demotion from Admiral to Captain.

 

P.S.S. The "title" Captain vs. "rank" Captain - In the military, you can be a captain without being a Captain. The highest ranking officer on a ship has the title of "captain". 

[t3hsquirr3l]

I honestly hoped we'd see some solutions to the mod system problems, but what I've seen of DE's reaction seems to indicate they don't see a problem with the mod system.

 

I don't care how great an idea you think it is, or how effective you think you're pulling it off, the fact is that I'm so bored and frustrated with it.  Required Mods?? If it's required, it should be part of the weapon or warframe, not a customization option.  If you insist that it's better this way, then just fuse those required mods right into the first 4-6 slots, and give us our one or two customization slots.

[Toppien]

It's a shame to hear that 99% of all the guilds in the game will never get anything to show in their trophy rooms.

 

I feel the "Everybody's a Winner!" response was.... somewhat (mildly) out-of-line, to be quite honest.

 

Right now, the way Clans Are, 99.9% of the players of Warframe might as well not even bother attempting to win anything in the competitions, because said competitions are always geared towards people who play Warframe 24/7 during the events. Your average person (or clan) cannot hope to even try to compete against that.

 

But yet we have Dojo Rooms dedicated to trophies... trophies almost nobody will ever win.

 

It is sad that DE is so against the idea of giving the more casual players something to put in these empty rooms other than Buddha statues. Not everybody is into Buddhism, TBH. Giving out Stone Statues is not "making everybody a winner". It is more of a "Thank you for your participation". The shiny statues are the stuff people win.

 

But oh well... apparently DE don't see it that way.

 

how i feel every time someone visits my dojo ;-;

[Khallisto]

I like when Rebecca makes faces & gets all emotive in character type stuff and then stops midway through when she realizes in horror that "the community is screengrabbing this to haunt me with later aren't they".

 

We love you Rebecca, and all the crazy faces and gestures you make. Keep on being you. <3

Usually, Rebecca makes the faces and Megan the sound effects.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Khallisto

[OmegaSyndromeX]

I CALL DIBS ON LIME GREEN SHIP sorry for caps also in my mind im picturing shade the stealth as Liam Neeson dethcube as Arnold Schwarzenegger carrier as Morgan Freeman and wyrm as Denzel Washington but in all honesty im not stupid i know that's a pipe dream like how in destiny i wish they where the ghost but a dream is a dream also my otaku half is like make em all cute little harbingers of death like i dunno.....nosebleed......nope that wouldn't work i pictured something else so yeah.....um well.......bye then thanks for being awesome

[OnimaruX]

I respect Steve even more for standing up for himself as a developer and their work. Sometimes we as gamers go too far and don't know what we're talking about, are we the developers of this game no I don't think

so. There nothing wrong with constructive criticism but we need to remember our place and that comment that they posted was offensive, it's DE game and can add or change as they see fit. Mod system is great it's a fresh breath of air compared to typical mmos today, does it need work yes, does it need to be replaced no.

[OnimaruX]

I respect Steve even more for standing up for himself as a developer and their work. Sometimes we as gamers go too far and don't know what we're talking about, are we the developers of this game no I don't think

so. There nothing wrong with constructive criticism but we need to remember our place and that comment that they posted was offensive, it's DE game and can add or change as they see fit. Mod system is great it's a fresh breath of air compared to typical mmos today, does it need work yes, does it need to be replaced no.

[OnimaruX]

Stupid laggy internet

[Chroia]

Difficulty:

Vor's Prize - Letting a new player choose a weapon sounds great, but the whole point is the new player doesn't know how the guns handle, or what he'll need.

Access to a target range would be a good start, but still doesn't help with lacking of preknowledge.

 

"Here, new player! You can choose one from Serration, Warm Coat, Diamond Skin and Melee Prowess!"

...

Yeah.

 

=====

 

The A problem with difficulty is that it's nearly impossible to match difficulty and loadout.

(This touches on why I *%@& HATE the assassins, but that's a different topic.

tl;dr - 1 game out of every X, bend over and kiss your @$$ goodbye.

They're a missmatch 95%+ of the time (in my experience with them). Rarely a challenge, usually a curbstomp battle.

Which side is doing the curbstomping depends on whether you were planning on their showing up (i.e. the battle isn't won on the field, but in the arsenal. Wow. Much challenge, very excite, etc.), and if not whether you or your teammates happen to have a maxed out gun (*Poof* Assassin shows up. *Ratatat* Assassin is dead before completing 'hi, I'm here now' animation), and that's pretty much it.

Note: This appears to be the case more with Stalker/G3 than with Harvey, but without comprehensive info on my teammates at the time, I can't swear to that.)

 

 

I'd guess that the most straightforward way to deal with this would be an overhaul of Conclave scores.

Or rather, a Conclave-rating-like system, since PvP is a very different environment than PvE.

 

i.e. let mods have a C-rating multiplier, rather than just being a flat increase.

e.g. Serration increases the item's Conclave rating by *#% equal to its bonus.

e.g. a +105% serration essentially makes your weapon twice as effective. Why shouldn't it double its conclave rating?

Similarly, (on an Amprex, for instance) why should a maxed Thermite Rounds give / cost C50, same as a maxed Serration, when it gives less burst/sustained damage then a maxed Vital Sense?

Also, also, Multishot mods. Same deal, larger scale.

I don't think a flat numeric value serves as a good indicator. That said, this is a knee-jerk reaction, as I haven't actually sat down and reviewed every single mod's rating.

This would allow Conclave rating to express mod synergy, e.g. an elemental combo on top of Serration or a Channeling build on top of a base-mod set.

 

I'd think doing this would make matching creature level and player loadout better / easier to achieve.

 

 

Edit2: Add in that the only indication of a creature's difficulty is a level # if you happen to notice it at the end of a healthbar...

=====

 

Re: Daedric Tonfa

Best use for Cernos: Wear Syandana of your choice. Equip Cernos. Switch to secondary/melee. :)

Not that Cernos is a bad weapon, Impact is just less useful than Paris' Puncture or Dread's Slash.

And Cernos is prettier. :)

 

=====

 

Re: Mod Card

Breaking up cards into tiers doesn't actually solve anything.

Mandatory, i.e. 'force multiplier' mods, still exist, now you need to pray to RNG for more of them.

o.0

Thanks, no.

 

"... There's skill not only at the play level, but at the design of your build level"

See 'winning through skill' vs 'winning through mechanics'.

Or, for the flip side, see e.g. Melee vs Sargas Ruk.

 

"The combinatorial value etc. etc."

Compare and contrast 'existing' combinations and 'worthwhile / viable / appreciably different' combinations.

Edit: Note - I'm not saying you're categorically wrong, just wondering whether that statement takes this into consideration.

 

Speaking of...

I don't math, but have a look at Channeling mods vs base mods.

Base mods affect channeling. Not vice versa.

This makes base mods enormously more useful overall.

(i.e. useful at all for non-channeling, and increasing the base - which is then multiplied - for channeling builds.)

Having not done the math, at a glace given the choice, point for point, base mods blow channeling mods out of the water. (And I'm talking straight effect comparisons, e.g. Pressure point caps at 120% for 9, Killing Blow at 120% for 11, compounded by the numbers observed here, though by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

=====

 

Smoothing Movement - YES PLEASE.

This should be part of my feedback post, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

Here's the tl;dr version, though:

 

This account was created a few days before the survival weekend.

I played for maybe 2 hours and walked away with no intention of returning.

The only reason I did is that a pack of friends from another game migrated here.

 

WHY did I stop?

Inability to complete a "simple" 'Style kill' challenge.

One of the things that hooks me most about games is my ability to, for lack of a better phrase, master their movement systems.

That being the case, I found the cumbersomeness of movement in Warframe a dealbreaking turnoff.

 

At this juncture, I simply ignore it.

I wallrun->launch when I can (there are very few places where this is actually useful), but mostly I just sprint and copter.

No sliding, no wallrunning, no mantling (when I can avoid it by jumpkicking. It really breaks the movement flow, e.g. in a Grineer invasion, the windows after the flaming courtyard which always spawns; or that friggin' "peace-sign" fan to the plasma conduit to space in the Corpus invasion maps).

 

A suggestion: Press and hold jump for freerunning.

This means auto-mantling, auto-climbing (which doesn't always work on a certain tile. I'll have to remember to screenshot it at some point), ideally the ability to change from wall-climb to wall-run, etc.

 

 

---------

---------

 

Question:

While I assume the answer is a resounding 'no'...:

Any thoughts on allowing players to 'cap' a mod under its rank?

i.e. I have a maxed Serration.

I have an unranked weapon, e.g. Mutalist Quanta just came out, and I've bought or crafted it. Now I want to rank it.

Unless I have redundant lower-ranked copies of Serration, I effectively don't have Serration until <rank> (or <rank/2> if it has a Catalyst).

Between some mods being rare, and some mods being (bloody) expensive to rank multiple times... :s

 

Also, duplicates for Sentinel weapons.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Chroia

[Break-Away]

Saw my freeze ray. That's all I cared about. The tonfa are nice too though.

[(PSN)karpomusick]

While many tenno would love to see every "sentinel' have a vacuum ability like the carrier,i think all the other sentinels abilities need a little rework,like if the "Death Cubes" Vaporize" ability also mutated ammo for you,which would then free up a slot for your rifle or pistol,or like "Shades" "revenge" ability,maby while ghost is active it will attack enimies for you while invisible,but if you attacked you would then become visible just food for thought what do you guys and girls think?

Edited July 5, 2014 by (PS4)karpomusick

[(PSN)Darrkness_009]

awesome, cool stuff headed our way but...

 

a-ha knew it... especially after prime time 33

[gpturismo]

All I can say is after watching this late, Steve got real. Playing D&D1, 2, 2PO, 3, 3.5, 4, Battlemaster, GURPS, Shadowrun and Sheldon tempting me to do Pathfinder not to mention MMO's from Everquest to WoW, he's right. The point of progressive gaming, especially long standing games versus the six hour sixty dollar single shots, is to find better equipment to enable to push into deeper content. 

 

The issue that people forget is many people throw real dollar money at this game and get ahead by buying full serration mods, (which I bought a second since I use Deathcube) and players get far ahead into the game. I am guilty of throwing money at this game, and the huge difference is with WoW and other games, you can get primarily only gold, and there are items such as better raiding gear that you can not buy with gold.

 

But Steve, thanks for being real. <3 DE.

[Pendragon1951]

IMHO I think Steve has a confused idea of what skill means, let me give you an example, Now i'm sure many of you have played baseball, if not then just bear with me. Let us say you have this great mitt that is all nicely broken in has a great pocket etc now at your game someone hits you a ball, now is the skill dictated by your glove or is it you that has the skill. The glove is just a tool, but if you don't know how to move or catch worth s@#$% then it doesn't matter how nice your glove is you need to have that skill. In the mod system it's the opposite you have to have certain mods to advance your skill, if you don't have those certain required mods you will either not advance or advance very very slowly at great peril to yourself. A skill should be advanced by how well you do not by how well you can slap on a couple of cards. To say that the whole mod system should be scraped is just silly but it could use a little rework, but don't try and say there is any skill involved in the mod system.

[DalaiLlama]

 

They made a thread saying they couldn't explain the details, but they plan to keep all rights to Warframe.

 

 

 

 

this is what i'd call ignorance in a deplorable post. Steve made a comment yesterday about it; in that comment he mentioned that they cannot disclose any more information about it at the time; in the livestream today it was one of the first things Rebecca brought up and again she reiterated that they cannot say anything else on the matter other than what Steve wrote.

 

I'm upset about this as you are and as everyone else here; i spent hours in the megathread thursday evening reading and replying. But just because DE devs cant tell you what you want to hear, they are ignorant? They covered a vast amount of topics in the livestream today but the one thing you wanted to here more information about, which they did not get any further into, makes DE devs deplorable?

 

I wish people like you'd stop throwing words around just because this is an internet forum and you'd grow up a little. Has it even occurred to you that DE executives have not provided this information to the Devs? Or maybe they have strictly prohibited the information from being released publicly?

 

Such impulsive and childish ignorance you have displayed here. This is disappointing

 

EDIT: Thanks for the livestream devs. it was much appreciated, the information you provided us. and i love those ending videos. damn. i'm pretty psyched for U14, whenever its ready to go.

 

Giving additional details is always nice, but verbatim I said "mention".  It never came up once in the devstream lineup, and this one cannot argue.

 

Come to think of it, these last two devstreams have been rather underwhelming for me in general.  Either I'm personally not very excited about upcoming content, or something else.  I couldn't be bothered to watch them again to find out.

[thebrainbrain]

 

http://imgur.com/okdPgbw

 

Even better version ...

Edited July 7, 2014 by thebrainbrain

[NevanChambers]

If you think it would do nothing else but invalidate the deal then you must not know how this kind of stuff works. If they were to do this they would be breaking a legal and binding contract, which means breaking the law. If they reveal any, and I mean ANY, information on it that they are under a SIGNED AND LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT not to reveal, they may as well kiss their company and all their assets goodbye since PWE would sue their @$$ to high hell.

This ^^

We wouldn't have to worry about the future of warframe. There would be no hope at all.

[K_Shiro]

Difficulty

Problem is that the idea of challenge seems to be stuck on making an enemy a bag of hp, resistance, high damage attack, possessing annoying abilities you cannot defend against. That is kinda off.

 

The mentioned prosecutors is a "good" example. They are not a challenge at all - they are just annoying since you have to choose a specific weapon. No thinking required.

If they were using shields that are immune to a single specific damage type or even shields that are immune to everything except one thing but have a duration (thus you can hurt them properly when it's off) is already more complex and thus closer to "challenging". Maybe best would be making them "lose patience" and after X time/damage, they would raise a shield that is highly resistant to the element they suffered the most from previously, so you would have to switch.
Just an example but as long as there is "reaction" included, things can be challenging. As long as it's essentially just doing what you always do, it's just that... what you always do. Not a challenge, you just do it a bit longer.

 

Again, I hate immunities, but a "resistance" raise midfight is still better than an overall high resistance because you have to react and adapt during the fight, instead of plain bring every single element with you. That's... just planning a bit ahead (not much planning since you can bring 4 elements to a fight easily - primary, secondary, melee, sentinel weapon, or even elemental frame).

 

Anyways, my main point is that it would be the best for the game if Difficulty would be released from being a plain rise in main stats for enemies. Their tactics don't change, their IQ is still on the level of something seriously dead and their abilities are mostly just annoying (not tactically effective - apart from shield bearing grineer maybe, they seem to be the most clever...). They tend to just run around - and though I understand what many before me said, mainly that the Tenno abilities make short work of even large crowds thus AI improvement would not bring higher survival rates, I disagree.

If they wouldn't just plain stand in the middle of the corridor (or run around like headless chicken, sit in a "cover" completely exposed etc.) and our abilities (especially the ultimates) would be really special instead of... let's face it, when a player is capable of unleashing his ultimate ability every second, something is wrong. If an ability's cost would go down that much it should weaken incredibly while we shouldn't be able to spam powerful ultimates all the time. Energy is too cheap.

 

I would:

- Make enemies and stuff drop more energy globes but make those globes worth only 5 energy.

- Make small tean energy restore gear apply a buff on players in it's vicinity, raising energy regeneration by 1.

- Make medium team energy restore gear apply a buff on players in it's vicinity, raising energy regeneration by 2. etc.

- Such buffs cannot stack, only strongest is active.

- Energy Siphon aura (and all auras) should get diminishing returns: good to have more but no longer multiplying it's effect.

 

That would make the ultimates valuable. And the enemy would have a chance. If they are clever enough. No problem with a hack'n'slash massacre game but if we talk about challenge then... you get it.

 

Quest exclusive rewards

As mentioned a long time ago, it might be a good idea to provide multileveled reward for challenges. To provide an example:

Rifleman - You have to kill your enemies with your primary weapon.

Lvl1: All your kills come from primary weapons, you killed at least 10%* of enemies murdered during the mission.

Lvl2: All your kills come from primary weapons, you killed at least 30%* of enemies murdered during the mission.

Lvl3: All your kills come from primary weapons, you killed at least 50%* of enemies murdered during the mission.

 

*Depending on the party size - having only a single ally or 3 greatly changes the difficulty after all. In case of no ally, it could require the same % of accuracy instead :D where a shot cannot produce more than 100% accuracy rating (so no 62000% with ignis).

 

As for rewards you could give small things but valuable things. For very hard challenges, on first completion, etc. you could give crosshairs or UI based vanity stuff (like a different minimap style), or just tokens and with 50 challenge token you can buy one of those, etc. I think it would also be possible to give a random mod, maybe introduce mods that can only be aquired through challenges... etc.

 

(https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/79196-concepts-of-mine-consumables-merchant-gambler-and-void-cause-i-like-that/ has more examples)

 

Corpus Freeze Ray

Nice but when I have read about Frost, I seriously shuddered. I'm sad for him, as Frost has a ton of things but a useful freeze ability isn't among them. His first ability is less than... adequate - no aoe while hard to hit with it and it doesn't have enough damage to compensate for the lack of use of it's freezing effect. Does the bosses still turn invulnerable and/or bug out if hit by it? In a crowd it's useless, against a boss it's only good if you want to revive.

If it was an aoe freeze without damage but frozen enemies would suffer higher incoming damage, that would make it good. Until then let's just check out that gun instead :)

 

(Again https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/79196-concepts-of-mine-consumables-merchant-gambler-and-void-cause-i-like-that/ has more details)

 

SHOTGUN/SNIPER BALANCE

Balancing overall is needed for most weapons. There is no end to the problems on that end - so good luck :) I certainly don't envy you for your neverending chores.

By the way - Penta and Ogris might be better off using shotgun ammo pool before someone realizes that their damage output and overall ammo reserves make them statistically overpowered compared to... anything else.

I would also make their range larger and the damage falloff... exist. Right now it feels like that if you are hit by the explosion you get full damage, even if you were standing on the edge (actually there seems to be an area where you only get a slight damage but there is definitely no proper falloff curve). Anyways, through such changes they would be much likely to hit you too, harder to use in enlcosed space and overall more like explosives with an aoe range fitting their destructive potential.

 

TRINITY BALANCE

My answer to Trinity's blessing is the same as to Rhino's ironskin or Frost's snowglobe. No immunity but a dependable resistance of some sorts.

 

Trinity - blessing: I would remove immunity but offer a certain % of damage resistance instead - that way you can still mess up and die but overall provides VERY valuable protection.  Would also remove damage resistance on Link and make it affect all enemies in it's range.

 

Rhino - iron skin: First hit is ignored every 5/4/3/2 seconds. Ability has a duration of 14/17/20/23s.

 

Frost - snowglobe/winterhail: Every shot (except expolsives) coming in contact with the globe loses 20/25/32/40% of it's dmg. Stacks with every entry into every globe (so damage goes 100%>60%>36%>21.6%>12.96% etc. rounded up). Explosives have X% chance to explode on first contact and then every second they are in the globe.

 

Stalker - corporeal form: An "X% chance for shots to pass through you without dealing damage" would be nice as some kind of corporeal form/ability for a frame too but I can so imagine Stalker using it - he is so smokey anyways:).

 

CREDIT REWARDS

Give that guy a raise. Or plat. A % reward is always good and a booster is essentially that. Though I'm not sure about the duration he mentioned, it is definitely way more appealing than 1000 credits or xp for something you have maxed and feels much less like the "short end" compared to getting a bp that costs way more (or might be useful) or forma/potato etc.

 

PLAYER SHIPS/COSMETICS

Dojo coloring? I would also like the idea of ticking a box when uploading clan emblem, making it reactive towards energy coloring on a frame (making it greyscale). And colorpickers/palettes with material properties, like glowing colors, metallic colors... hmm...

 

CARRIER VACUUM

Vacuum is indeed a very useful ability, so useful that effectively it makes Carrier the only truly useful sentinel. Well, Helios is nice when you need a ton of scans but useless in a fight. Though the biggest problem comes from most sentinel weapons being completely out of balance.

For example while Laser rifle has roughly 20.1 dps, sweeper has 41 (in one shot actually) while having much higher status and even possessing a little crit chance (according to the wiki). It's reload is slower but it has slower attack speed and double the magazine so... Laser rifle is even slower?

As for Carrier, it would be nice if she could get some carrier-ish ability while vacuum goes on as a "simple" sentinel mod. Like:

Arrival - Carrier releases small carriers that release small carriers that... :)

 

Okay, something like this instead might sound better:

Swarm - Carrier releases a swarm of nanites around the player, providing 25% damage reduction from incoming attacks for a duration of 3/6/9/12 seconds. (Maybe providing some damage dot against enemies in melee range?)

 

LOBBY HOSTING/NETWORKS

Yep, there was great sadness over this for quite a while now. Your "recent" attempt of helping the situation by implementing the host-evaluation process didn't provide us with too positive results. It frequently messes up and gives the hosting privilage to someone that should really not host at all - I even lost void keys because of this (I got DC from host after 5 min survival, lost everything but it was my key so they were kicked too...).

A simple "HOST LOBBY" button would be welcome - at least it rid me of the experiences when an already present party is doing a mission I really don't want to play with but I can't start a new online game because every time I leave mission and try again, I get dropped in with them again (once I met 3 afk guys - was fun).

 

EVENT STATUES

Though I agree with not giving everyone a trophy I certainly feel the reasons behind his question. With the scores last time it was pretty easy to see that some clans have a ton of people that can just sit down and play all day, cutting those with real lives off from such things - even if they were actually better skillwise (don't saying they are but if they were they would still be cut off). Especially considering that the last event really only needed us running through the map with an invisible loki again and again and again and again - which isn't exactly something that should be rewarded by a trophy. You could send a "please leave your computer once in a while" mail to them though...

No offense - but if you feel offended then that's a problem on it's own.

 

SKILL TREE vs. MOD SYSTEM

I agree that the mod system isn't defunct. I like it, pretty easy to manage. As for the skill tree, DE said stuff about the Focus system that might be around that area in some form at least.

On the other hand it is true that if everything only depends on items instead of (player)skill, the game will fail in some form (khm, Diablo3). No need for skill tree but right now the game is mostly a big massacre, spamming ultimates and shooting the enemies rushing at you in a suicidal manner (or running around). No real use of cover or parkour since the enemies can hit you anyways. If their shot's accuracy would go down the faster you move from their perspective (so running at them in a straight line is practically the same as standing still) and they wouldn't be so dumb, things could change. Not as long as we can spam ultimates that clear out whole rooms, every second though.

 

IN-GAME UI

Colorable UI would be cool.

 

CORPUS/GRINEER GUNS

It wouldn't be so bad to give pistols to every troop to use when the need rises while letting them still have their primaries. And their own standard melee - looks weird for Grineer to use corpus melee (prova) when hit by Loki's ultimate (the prove stuck into the head of moas is weirder though).

 

 

MISSION TAXIS

The you-can-enter-a-mission-through-invite-but-you-have-to-unlock-it-through-the-full-path kind of way is to my liking. I meet too many rank 0-s on Earth's dark sectors and such and it's kind of... annoying. Not them, they don't yet know the game at that point but then again, I wouldn't expect to be forced to carry others on a mission that far from the start.

 

SHARED ANIMATION SETS

Earning % of real money purchases of your own item sounds fun. I would be happy with plat only too though - especially if we could install fully custom stuff, like custom weapon/frame models/helmets, custom ability visuals, syandanas, skins, maps, UI, etc.

 

FIGHTING UNARMED

More response when hitting an enemy would be nice overall. Normally it doesn't feel like we are hitting them, we just swing our weapons and they bleed but the 2 doesn't seem to be linked too much. Our swings never slow or stop when hitting an enemy, the enemy doesn't suffer from our momentum (like being swung to the side from a horizontal Fragor kiss). Overall melee doesn't show our control all that much (EEEEE for combo isn't really a combo - forcing us to perform those moves ourselves would be cool but then we would need moves, like E+left=horizontal slash to the left etc.)

Grabbing an opponent (grappling?) would certainly feel that we actually touched them - so I would like it. This makes finisher a tad better than the normal melee actually.

 

(Can't quote a locked topic so here it is: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/249863-thank-you-for-watching-devstream-31/page-5#entry2918301)

 

FREERUNNING/PARKOUR

We overall feel limited or at least that our moves aren't particularly useful. Even if we fly 300km/h across a room, the enemies on the sides don't really have a problem hitting us (at least we get through fast so they cannot fire too many shots huh...) so parkouring in battle conditions is a waste of time and you actually open yourself up with that instead of making yourself hard to hit.

The "get-up" part is an old problem that many games suffer from. The easiest way would be to allow the player to move while on the ground and decide when to try getting up. It's pretty boring when the character tries getting up time after time just to headbutt the ground again thanks to the ancients around. Diminishing returns on repeated knockdown is another way to do it but...

 

WYRM PRIME WEAPON

I hope I haven't sold my wyrm prime sentinel. I someone sold it, will they still get the weapon?

[Deidaku]

YES FINALLY they've talked about knockdown recovery :D

 

*manly tears*

[ArsVampyre]

Re: Mod system

 

In reference to the statement and responses below it, it's plain to me that DE either fundamentally misunderstands or is misrepresenting the issue.  Simplified, the issue is that progression in Warframe is dependent on mod drops, which means RNG, rather than time invested, which is not skill but effort.

 

Players tend to prefer a system where progression is effort or skill dependant because they feel it is something they can control.  Progression based on RNG is outside their control, and while effort can increase the chances in RNG system, effort and progression are not, strictly speaking, tied together. Particularly worse, RNG based systems get progressively worse as the player progresses because they're rewarded with progression less and less frequently (this is fairly common in effort-based progression systems as well).

 

My issues are many, but the first is that the developers have a fundamental misunderstanding of what's being discussed with that 'question', as did Rebecca as the community representative, and so they don't address the question at all. Sheldon comes closest, but not really.

 

This is what that question seems to really boil down to, the way I read it.

 

 

 

Ignoring warframes for the moment, weapons don't fundamentally progress as your rank them, except with your ability to add mods. The gun never does more damage or becomes more accurate, gains more ammo or magazine capacity, etc unless you have the mods that allow that. So the issue then becomes 'did you get the drops to get the mods'. This fundamentally changes the nature of 'progression' from one based on effort, i.e. ranking frames and weapons to one based on random luck, i.e. mod drops of the appropriate type.

 

 

 

We can consider that probability means you can 'grind out' mod drops, or potentially buy them in trade, and grind out fusion cores to rank them, but progression isn't fundamentally tied to warframe rank, weapon rank, or even mastery rank (with a few exceptions, mostly around the relatively low level of mastery rank requirements on some weapons). Mods and their ranking IS the real progression in the game, and it's fundamental to the nature of the way the mod system works, and it's entirely based on RNG.

 

 

 

Sheldon partially addresses this in the 'tiered mods' idea, in that lower ranked, weaker versions of 'required' mods will be more readily available. This is, by and large, a gigantic mistake that actually makes things worse rather than better, but that's a slightly different discussion. By tiering some mods to make weaker versions more available, progression is less locked to the ranking of those 'required' mods because weaker versions will, supposedly, be common enough that worries regarding RNG on say, serration or redirection are moot. You'll have something. But they aren't moot. Your progression will still be AS limited as before, because you'll get to the max rank of the weaker version of those mods and then have to grind out the RNG for the bigger tier mods anyway. Only now they're even less likely to drop because the tables have to accommodate weaker tier versions.

 

 

 

Steve side-steps the question entirely; either intentionally or unintentionally misunderstanding it. He focuses on 'skill replacement' but that's not the question. The fundamental question has to do with progression being tied to effort, or tied to luck. The mod system makes it tied to luck, even if you can apply effort to theoretically increase that luck (good luck with that on say, a melee stance mod for your glaive?). No amount of new mods will ever change that (in fact, more makes it worse rather than better), though changes in the nature of the drop table, or perhaps guaranteeing mods as quest rewards would (but not if it's tiered).

 

 

 

There's nothing, imo, fundamentally wrong with the choice to make progression RNG based rather than entirely effort, or 'skill' based, but Steve is deceptive in arguing that mods don't replace skill, if skill is used as a replacement for effort, the way the questioner uses it.

 

 

 

As an aside, I think the word 'skill' is misused here. Skill, to me, would be things like the ability to aim, lead a target, make good use of limited ammunition, proper timing of power use, etc. Skill would even including understanding and building your frame and weapon to best suit whatever content you intend to contest against. Skill is not just doing more damage, killing more enemies, or in the way it's used in the question, playing more often. Skill and Effort are not interchangable, but that's how the questioner uses it, and it allows Steve to sidestep the question with 'misunderstanding' or 'misdirection', depending on what you believe he's doing.

 

 

 

Rebecca just sort of plays along with Steve, and I think that's because she doesn't understand the nature of the statement from the player, either.

 

 

 

Then Steve side-steps again to talking about a tree system vs a mod system, without seeming to understand that the only real difference between a 'tree system' and a 'mod system' is that in the tree system, presumably your options aren't limited based on RNG. The branch exists, and can interact with other branches, and can even be adjusted, potentially on the fly (Diablo 3?), but progression on it isn't determined by what you were lucky enough to obtain. Total progression in the game might. Diablo 3, as an example, is very gear dependent, which is RNG introduced into progression (it's also both what makes the game tick for longevity and the aspect that most people get irritated by the most, because when the RNG isn't favorable, which it generally isn't, you don't get progression past a certain point). Warframe fundamentally limits progression entirely based on RNG, both in drops for mods and drops for components, blueprints, etc. That's a design choice, and one that often irritates players because the drops are sometimes so limited or seem so unfair as to cause mounting frustration, particularly as you get toward the limit of available content and the things that are dropping lose all value because they duplicate things the player has in abundance (a rare 5 core doesn't excite someone who has 1000 of them, even though it's very useful still).

 

 

 

Scott's points don't address the statement either, though they seem to when he states that there are commonly required mods. These are essential stat changes that could easily be integrated as things that increase with weapon and frame rank (one fundamental change between warframes that didn't exist but was changed early on BECAUSE of the rarity of Redirection, in particular, was that stats increased on warframes as they rank. More health, shields, and energy availability with higher ranks. This is something that could occur on weapons but does not). And I'm sure players with rank 10 serration and redirection mods would be happy if 1) the value increases as weapons and frames ranked were mathematically equivalent and 2) they were compensated with a 'super fusion core' that could rank up some other mod from rank 0 to rank 10, something DE has done before with other mods. None of this is without precedence.

 

 

 

 

I happen to agree with Steve that the corrupted mod trade-off is some of the most interesting things they've done with mods, rather than scraping the bottom of the barrel, but the channeling mods I don't agree. They're just not very good. The corrupted mods are interesting because they have large changes to one stat at a significant, those lesser, change in another that lean a player toward a particular playstyle. The channeling mods are neither strong enough nor do they lead to a fundamental change in playstyle; to use them you must channel AND melee. I do find it funny that the stats on helmets were essentially the first use of the trade-off mechanic in something the player could control, and the developers nixed it, and yet feel that corrupted mods and trade offs are important to player diversity and build choice. It's not ironic, just incoherent. Yes I understand that players wanted to wear a helmet for cosmetic reasons without stat changes, but that was easily fixed with a toggle to turn off the stat changes. Instead DE felt the need to remove the stat changes all together, even though it fit with the trade-off paradigm that they seem to think is so important for player diversity and enjoyment. Left hand, meet right hand. Do the same thing, please.

 

SKILL TREE vs. MOD SYSTEM

TheGreatZamboni: Abridged points: The current Mod Card system is not a sustainable one. Meaning, you cannot continually release mods and use them as a crutch for content. The Corrupted Mods were already scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of ideas. But to think you can keep the system interesting with a flawed foundation is foolish . . .

Having 300 Warframes and 1000 weapons cannot make up for bad design. Especially when said Warframes and weapons fall victim to the very problem at the core of the game: The Mod Card system. Because the effectiveness of your Warframe and Weapon are not tied to your skill or interaction with said items but to the mods you have equipped, the game becomes one of drops. You play to max Serration, Redirection, Focus, Primed Chamber.

R: What do you think mods offer to the base of the game? And are there any plans to go back and revisit the entire system?

Sheldon: Isn't that what we're doing with different tiers of mods? You'll have a graduated approach to what mods you're using, where the quality will increase. Just from a new player perspective, this is a good thing.

Steve: I think it's laughable to say we have a game about progression, where the progression has no bearing on the outcome. And the idea that mods replace skill in the game is simply untrue. Since the original roleplaying games, there has been an intersection between the value of items you acquire and your ability to use them in the right situations. The variety of builds available in Warframe tells me that there is skill in both play, as well as the design of your build. Through the mod system, you can make any build you want, and the choices offered to players will only grow. There are years of ideas in our backlog, and the time required to make things is all that holds us back. I think a big part of his issue is the required mods, which the new update will address. There are a lot of false assertions in that post.

Rebecca: I think our players are asking for something that will never be in the game, and some people may not like the mod system, but we think we can work with it and make the game fun

Steve: We could do that skill tree with a thousand different options, but the mods are what gives Warframe it’s depth. It’s different than the trees that people expect. We went through this already in U7. The possibilities for energy and slot balance is orders of magnitude higher than any tree system.

Rebecca: I suppose the frustration is what more mods can we make? We get complaints about mods like Handspring and Warm Coat...

Steve: I agree and hear that those are bandaid mods, but those are few and far between. I think there's a lot more interesting things done with mods, like tradeoffs or channeling efficiency.

Scott: If you go to the forums to find your best build for anything, there's often a giant thread of people comparing and contrasting. There are those common mods that you feel like you have to have, though.

Steve: The biggest flaw is the lack of tradeoff for buffing up mods other than increased capacity. The kind of thing we did with corrupted mods or channeling stances is something we could work on over time.

Edited July 8, 2014 by ArsVampyre

[unknow99]

D.E., 3 things that should be added later too :

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/248005-what-if-enemy-conversations-and-eavesdropping/

(and Stealth 2.0 in general)

/!\

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/176524-warframe-concept-typhus-parasiteviral-samurai-03072014-cherry-blossom-theme-syndana-ftw/

/!\

(along with a wound idle/state when on low health. And without forgetting the other best community frames)

 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/170812-frame-stance-switcheroo-lots-of-pics-load-at-your-own-risk-update-will-be-added-to-game/

Edited July 9, 2014 by unknow99