New Ui Feedback From Ui/ux Designer: Visually Nicer, Slower To Use, More Clicks To Do The Same Task

[noneuklid]

Which doesn't mean it won't be. A good first step would be to have a default setting, so that when you logged in it would automatically take you to a game menu.

 

Please.  I like the login->stand up animation that's played, but I'd rather continue zooming out.

[noneuklid]

The UI can work perfectly well with the ship still there, they're two very different parts of the game.

 

They aren't the same part of the game, but only in the sense that melee combat and ranged combat aren't the same part of the game; they fall under the same wrapper.  Ship and UI both fall under the "UX" header that Pablo and Dorian discussed in their interview.

You want to discuss the UI specifically, which is understandable, and resolving it may well make the UX far more palatable.  But the two rolled out simultaneously and are pretty tightly bundled.  It seems fairly understandable for the frustration with each to affect the other.  Especially since we are officially and semi-officially provided with UI Feedback channels, but no specific channel for UX feedback.  Bleedover is inescapable.

I've requested from DERebecca an official channel for UX feedback, which could help a lot -- once she gets to the bottom of her inbox, anyway.

[RolandOTD]

I 100% agree, bring back the old UI, make Player ships you can just enter if you WANT to, not a mandatory part of the game everytime it starts up.

At 1080x1280, borderless windowed, parts of the esc menu are offscreen, both at Auto Aspect Ratio and at 4:3.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=289946981

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=289946966

AND I don't even understand where to go on the Mission Select Screen anymore, nothing is clearly marked for linear progression.

[Cryp2Nite]

I 100% agree, bring back the old UI, make Player ships you can just enter if you WANT to, not a mandatory part of the game everytime it starts up.

At 1080x1280, borderless windowed, parts of the esc menu are offscreen, both at Auto Aspect Ratio and at 4:3.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=289946981

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=289946966

AND I don't even understand where to go on the Mission Select Screen anymore, nothing is clearly marked for linear progression.

 

1080x1280? oO What kind of resolution is that? And of course its cut of... 1080/1280 = 0.84 aspect ratio.

But i think you meant 1280x1080, which is 1.18 aspect ratio. Either way, it wont work.

[jnka]

Agreed, but how does throwing the ship away solve that? It doesn't. Only legitimate criticism of the ship behind the menus I can think of is the performance one, though if your PC can't render menus on top of a simple environment playing warframe proper must be really horrible, I doubt you get less FPS in the menus than in-game.

 

Man I wish you could moderate your own topics, I don't like when mine get derailed by people having their own agenda, we're talking about the UI, hopefully in a constructive manner.

 

The UI can work perfectly well with the ship still there, they're two very different parts of the game.

I do actually get a significant performance hit in the menus, particularly after playing for a while, whereas running in missions with abilities going off all around and a lot of enemies doesn't really do anything. 

 

I don't think it's the menus per see, but more to do with the skybox, though unsure of course.

 

The performance hit gets to the point where it's problematic to change loadouts.

[Hobbes_Maxwell]

 

We did make a few tests with all options visible at once, and it was just overwhelming to read 17 options at once, the accessibility needs evolve as the play time increases, a seasoned player can look at 17 options and find what he wants with no issue, a player that has only gone through Vor's prize, would be overwhelmed by that.

 

 That's the thing though, the previous UI didn't have 17 things at once, it had you alone looking at a starmap with 8 little icon at the top, 2 of which were "settings" and "quit". the three primary, arsenal, market and foundry, were right there.

 

 

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

 

Immersion happens best when the players don't feel like they are fighting to control their experience, and in all honesty, I'm far less immersed now than i used to be. the previous calm tranquil kneeling outside a swirling solar map before being flung into the intensity of combat was far more immersive and enjoyable than the cluttered mess and noise that the ship is.

 

Honestly, there a lot of good ideas in this thread about how to "fix" the new UI. but I'm not sure it's that fixable. It's such a downgrade in functionality and immersion that I find myself playing less and less.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Hobbes_Maxwell

[Kaian-a-coel]

I'm not even bothering to download U14 until they fix this mess.

I simply can't tolerate the sight of the new "starmap", emphasis on the quotemarks. The reasons have been abundantly made clear already so I won't repeat them.

[magusat999]

And did anybody notice there's a missing body? The SUN? Where is the SUN???

 

In any case here's my little piece on some of the issues in a similar thread I made:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273762-star-map-needs-some-enhancements-suggestion/?view=findpost&p=3159643

 

Basically, the top of the Starmap could be utilized to eliminate extra clicking (such as planetary resources, extractor deployment) and there could be less steps to choosing a mission. There could also be more contextual information than we have at current.

Edited July 26, 2014 by magusat999

[magusat999]

Hey KriLL3, Thanks for the feedback. Few comments

 

 

"It doesn’t matter how many times I have to click, as long as each click is a mindless, unambiguous choice."

-Steve Krug

 

We did make a few tests with all options visible at once, and it was just overwhelming to read 17 options at once, the accessibility needs evolve as the play time increases, a seasoned player can look at 17 options and find what he wants with no issue, a player that has only gone through Vor's prize, would be overwhelmed by that.

 

U13 was not overwhelming. How is it all of a sudden overwhelming??? And it isn't "showing all 17 options at once", its being more intelligent about it, cleaner (as in FUNCTIONALLY CLEAN) and not nesting if not necessary: which is really minimally necessary in Warframe's case. Also, PC players don't need and aren't used to all that nesting - that is for console players with limited control options. Are you guys trying to make the PC version feel like a console port?

 

 

WIthout pressing esc you don't have a cursor, clicking isn't an option while you are running around.

 

Well then make the cursor persistent. Make the cursor appear if you click the mouse - currently you guys have disabled the mouse in that view. Just make it come back...

 

I totally agree with that, it's hard to find a specific planet if you are looking for it, argument against labels was that it was too crowded, newer players are introduced slowly to planets so the need for labels was less. In any case, I agree with you, but I lost that argument internally.

 

Now you have hundreds of people who on your side of the argument. That screen is BARE, there is a MASSIVE amount of excess space there. We don't need to admire the spendidness of someone's artwork, we need a useful, working, sensible UI.

 

Another one where there's division internally, some people think that it should work like an open world map where you browse around for the activities, some people want a straight forward list or the world state like http://deathsnacks.com/wf/ that might still happen.

 

Personally I like it how it is. It just needs some very minor tweaks to get it to be more easily used.I don't think anyone in here is suggesting making such a drastic, costly and unnecessary change to Warframe... Is this a PWE water-testing statement? Tell them don't start making CRAZY CHANGES to Warframe! nobody asked for that, just make the UI more user friendly and leave the formula alone! And note that the importance is not "internal" wants and desires, but your customers who are the real deciding factor. Don't for get our votes in this!

 

Another one where there's division internally, some people think that it should work like an open world map where you browse around for the activities, some people want a straight forward list or the world state like http://deathsnacks.com/wf/ that might still happen.

 

Personally I like it how it is. It just needs some very minor tweaks to get it to be more easily used.

I don't think anyone in here is suggesting making such a drastic, costly and unecessary change to Warframe... Is this a PWE water-testing statement? Tell them don't start making CRAZY CHANGES to Warframe! nobody asked for that, just make the UI more user friendly and leave the formula alone!

 

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

 

A few of the things you mention are bugs, like visibility in mods(fixed today), void key count, joining the dojo (fixed yesterday), how many you have of something in the foundry (made the fix for this today will likely be in the hotfix), and a couple other things.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to write this up, it's great to see you guys care enough to spend the time thinking about this.

 

ACTUALLY - to you (Warframe Staff) the PLAYER should be king. Immersion does not happen when people don't know what they are doing, what something is, where they are and cannot get information,. What kind of immersion is that? If you drop me in the middle of the pacific ocean, point east and tell me to go for it, I would have a more "Immersive" experience than this UI. It is a mess - a mess that was better and had few complaints when it was U13.

 

You are defending when you should be understanding and conceding. If there is some higher power "out-voting" you then they need to get in here and tell us why they are forcing something on us that isn't working. Let them defend this and we can determine if they are just going to ignore us or do something about it (nobody wants to support an arrogant company). For some, these problems are presented to let you know that they might be leaving based on your response, and this response sounds like "Oh, well - that's the way it is - so DEAL WITH IT". Is this the new attitude of DE towards it's customers? Hope not...

 

We need to hear, "Oh, it isn't working? Let us check it out... Your right, it isn't working and we are going to FIX IT, because we value our CUSTOMERS and CUSTOMERS ARE KING....".

Edited July 26, 2014 by magusat999

[Kaian-a-coel]

Found an image by HandsOfnArtist, inspired by my ideas on how to improve the starmap, back in january.

Note how U14 went in the completely opposite direction, yet this little change could go a long way fixing it.

 

 

The basic idea was to have the U13 UI made more immersive by giving the nodes an actual location on the planets and their orbit. The new UI made a step forward in this direction (rotationable planetary models) and three steps backward (removing the linked nodes system).

[Methanoid]

Found an image by HandsOfnArtist, inspired by my ideas on how to improve the starmap, back in january.

Note how U14 went in the completely opposite direction, yet this little change could go a long way fixing it.

 

 

The basic idea was to have the U13 UI made more immersive by giving the nodes an actual location on the planets and their orbit. The new UI made a step forward in this direction (rotationable planetary models) and three steps backward (removing the linked nodes system).

1000% better.

[NoV4CoRpS]

Hey Killer, as another Ui/Ux Designer, i'm totally agree with your neat analysis about the new UI.

I would like to congrats DE team for this hard work, it's definitely more immersive but need just some adjustments.

 

(A month ago, i posted some experimental UI/Ux ideas on the forum and on my dribbble account : https://dribbble.com/novagraphix)

 

I really love the Art Direction on this new interface, some clever ideas, but there is a big lack of Ui/UX design on some part and i know that DE would combine the same interface for PS4 and PC in order to have a similar approach for both platforms, so i would like to share my feelings and my modest contribution here:

 

1. Most of the time, i pay attention on typography choice and carrying about size and other font treatment to better understand what i have on my screen and present my content in a smart way for the users. It can rules an entire design with a good typo choice or it can easily become a mess. Here, I have a problem with the typography balance as a PC player. Some typos work perfectly and others don't, some are too bold or too thin. Some are too big. The UI team needs to find a good balance between the different state and information hierarchy.

 

2. Some text content need interline spacing in order to have a better read of informations and to have more space between elements. Actually, some elements are too close like "Stats".

 

4. Color choice is not ugly, but V13 ui get the "blue" as a dominant color for some states. Actually, there is too much use of "white". Blue and Orange could be a great choice to understand this hierarchy (H1, H2, H3, Titles, subtitles, text ...). Otherwise, we have a combo of "White/Blue/Orange" (Mission Complete) in one side and "White, Yellow/Green, Black" (Foundry) on the other side and the Market is a mix of both. It's weird because there is not a yet a good balance and unity between each interface.

 

3. The UI can be more effective with an epurate background maybe with a Translucent effect (As IOS 7 on Iphone/Ipad). Kubrows options page is more effective than the others. Maybe there is too much "white".

 

4. In the MODS page and MISSION COMPLETE page, the grid in background is pretty ugly (Just my opinion) and take too much place.

 

5. The MISSION COMPLETE page is much more comprehensive than the past one, but there is also a lack of UI design, like i said before, i feel like i have more a "Sketch/wireframe" page than a strong result of UI thinking.

 

6. and PLEASE, i hope the MODS menu will be more sexy, actually it's the most ugliest illustrations i ever seen in a game (I'am sorry guys, but i know you can do much more better for these mods illustrations!)

 

7. The FOV is too close as well.

 

DEAD SPACE 3 is a good example of what an immersive UI could be if you wanna take a look.

 

Thanks for reading me and good luck to the UI team

Edited July 27, 2014 by Novacorps

[Star]

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

 

For a lot of people, a lack of ease of use breaks immersion. Ease of use is king, because if you are frustrated by a difficult to use UI, you are not enjoying your time while you are using it. Instead of being immersed in the game, the atmosphere of what is happening, and the information in front of you you are jarred out of immersion by being irritated at a UI that is convoluted and confusing. Immersion is important, but it can't be achieved if ease of use is not there. That's what the UI update in U14 brought to us now. 

[Methanoid]

For a lot of people, a lack of ease of use breaks immersion. Ease of use is king, because if you are frustrated by a difficult to use UI, you are not enjoying your time while you are using it. Instead of being immersed in the game, the atmosphere of what is happening, and the information in front of you you are jarred out of immersion by being irritated at a UI that is convoluted and confusing. Immersion is important, but it can't be achieved if ease of use is not there. That's what the UI update in U14 brought to us now. 

 

^ This, when a lack of "ease of use" means i dont log in as much or at all then it should be obvious that "immersion" has done exactly nothing for me, "immersion" in our actual missions tho is another matter and much more suitable, just not in my menus and pre-game UI.

 

ease of use IS king, or there wouldnt be all these posts about bringing back the old UI or ppl simply stating the new UI is great ....however.... could you change ABC/XYZ because they want "ease of use" with their pretty UI.

 

i dont think theres a single thread or post that states the UI looks great and functions great, not a single 1, they all want more ease of use added, thats both sides of the major arguments, the ones that dont like the UI at all and the ones who do.

[CandyDragon]

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

This argument and "difference' is only valid if you admit to the art direction shifting steadily away from the grim dark mystery that warframe originally pitched. Its becoming increasingly focused on the bright white void rather than the old dark shadows

 

As someone who played from the earliest alpha stuff you guys offered, I can say this new UI and ship direction is far to stark white to feel "immersive" when all the established tech has been very specific.

 

Grievances against "immersion": 

The current ship is very "nasa" shuttle glazed with ultratech. Kinda goes against the almost alien yet familiar design the dojos and previous Tenno tech has established. 

The AI companion is seemingly from nowhere and has a chipper "guilty spark 243" behavior. Kinda pulls you from that "world is a dangerous place"

Even stranger as the ship was previously in Vor's use. We have such a happy voice for our adventures now.

I now own a space dog, a dog, in space. I pet this dog despite being what for all intents and purposes is a fairly silent mass murder machine. (I know its not a robot, just word play)

All these new bright, dare say happy, things are taking away from the feel of the game. 

Gone is the old Ominous, holographic implied dark room with a solar system to observe.

In its place we have the Stark white on white with bright white blue shading. 

And that one orange element. 

 

This is hardly immersive. This is only compounded by the losing the once gritty feel of this game. It feels as if the moment the void maps became a focus for any "endgame" content. The art direction leaped towards it.

 

Every time I see that word it makes me do a jackie chan reaction face when in regards to the UI.

 

Its only compounded by the hassle of navigation, the hassle of identification of information, and general lack of clarity in progression. 

It just feels like the loss of mystery has kinda killed all immersion for myself.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Nariala

[MSD3000]

I agree with just about everything being said here, so nice to find a thread that is about suggesting fixes and alternatives for the UI instead of assmad whining.

 

If I may add some feedback as well: The game since U14 feels completely empty. This is from several reasons, (everyone is on earth farming kubrows) but largely from the UI.

 

As stated before, the previous UI was very speedy to use, and easy search around for missions to launch. It also had a nice display of how many people were running a mission, that was easy to bring up and gauge whether you could run the mission with company. This was huge for me, as I don't have many friends who play this game, so running with pugs was how I chose to play the game 90% of the time.

I know the "people counter" part never quite worked perfectly, but it was at least a good indicator of activity on certain missions.

Now I have no way to know if a mission will have someone else running with me unless I hang out on the mission screen for several minutes, selecting missions and fishing for people to join, or join me. Its very time consuming, and feels incredibly lonely.

 

Also, speaking of mission selection. I have not found a way to access the loadout, foundry, mod, or any other screen that I might use to pass the time while waiting to "find other players" in the mission selection screen. Doing so forces me to leave the que altogether. This is less of an issue if you are already in a party, but it makes waiting around for a party to FORM that much more boring and joyless.

 

I have never felt more like "a lone Tenno" since U14.

 

If they could add a people counter back over the missions, and allow you swap between the planetary select and other menus without leaving que for missions, it would go a long way towards restoring my enjoyment of the game.

[Kharnix]

After spending a week with U14, I decided to come here to post my feelings on the new UI.  The original poster covered everything on my mind so this post is to reinforce that some people are still not enjoying the UI.  The moving UI and FoV in the player ship make me feel ill if I use them for more than a couple minutes.  I don't know how to fix it but I hope something can be done about it.

 

Perhaps Warframe is big enough now to have a PTS so these issues can be play-tested with a larger player base before release?

[noneuklid]

Just a note to everyone participating here: please vote on the Community poll, here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273566-july-25th-community-hot-topics/

The tally doesn't really seem to jive with my experiences here, and it might partly be because the choice presented is very binary.

[Methanoid]

Just a note to everyone participating here: please vote on the Community poll, here : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273566-july-25th-community-hot-topics/

The tally doesn't really seem to jive with my experiences here, and it might partly be because the choice presented is very binary.

 

the poll option for "do you like the new UI" is basically flawed, as ppl will be answering it thinking it looks pretty but functions bad say yes, ppl hating just the lack of functionality but think the pretty bits ok will say no, its basically nowhere near indepth enough.

 

a more indepth "Poll" should appear ingame not buried in the forums and it shouldnt just say "is the UI ok"

 

it should say something like...

 

Rate the UI Appearance

Rate the UI Functionality

rate the UI ease of use

Rate the information provided by the UI

 

etc etc

Edited July 27, 2014 by Methanoid

[noneuklid]

I suggested "I like the ship but dislike the menus," "I like the menus but dislike the ship," "I like both" and "I dislike both."  But it's probably too late to change it.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Bump before the devstream.

[Zaroz]

Hit esc, done, took you a split second to get to the UI, but yes an option to default to the UI on login/mission completion/whatnot would be nice.

Except when Im working on mods and a friend invites me to his group to run missions.  Now I have to spam ESC to exit out and get to any menu, not just the one magic ESC 'split second' key press everyone keeps making up.

 

The only thing more laughable about the ESC key press people, is DE themselves being so ignorant to what a lot of people are commenting about as legit issues with the UI.  Its like they are sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and just keep repeating," I CANT HEAR YOU, I CANT HEAR YOU, I CANT HEAR YOU".....to their playerbase....when this game eventually fails, you'll know why.  Im hoping there are some upcoming changes that make the UI more bearable, but unfortunately, the UI has gotten worse with each "fix".

[vaugahn]

Except when Im working on mods and a friend invites me to his group to run missions.  Now I have to spam ESC to exit out and get to any menu, not just the one magic ESC 'split second' key press everyone keeps making up.

 

The only thing more laughable about the ESC key press people, is DE themselves being so ignorant to what a lot of people are commenting about as legit issues with the UI.  Its like they are sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and just keep repeating," I CANT HEAR YOU, I CANT HEAR YOU, I CANT HEAR YOU".....to their playerbase....when this game eventually fails, you'll know why.  Im hoping there are some upcoming changes that make the UI more bearable, but unfortunately, the UI has gotten worse with each "fix".

 

If by spam ESC you mean press it twice, then yes. There are legitimate problems with the new UI, but having a massive overreaction and saying the UI is going to kill the game isn't helping your case.

[SSI_Kryptix]

Let's all just hope that DE makes the new UI more easier to use

[Mephiste]

 

This is a difference in direction, you are thinking ease of use is king, where to us immersion is king. You could certainly make the argument that the foundry information could be easier to read as an excel sheet, but it's not what we are going for.

 

A few of the things you mention are bugs, like visibility in mods(fixed today), void key count, joining the dojo (fixed yesterday), how many you have of something in the foundry (made the fix for this today will likely be in the hotfix), and a couple other things.

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to write this up, it's great to see you guys care enough to spend the time thinking about this.

 

You can't f**king be serious. Immersion > Easy to use?!

What exactly is wrong with you, Pablo?

 

You do NOT ever put "Immersion" or "Pretty graphics" before utility. 

F**k your immersion, I want something EASY AND ENJOYABLE TO USE.  

 

I don't want to hear you or ANYONE from DE saying they'll put "Immersion" before good, polished gameplay. You are killing Warframe.