Syndicate Syndicate Syndicate - The Math Behind The Grind

[Ronyn]

1) "End-game" content shouldn't require literally thousands of hours of grinding with end-game gear in order to acquire it. ---- it will literally take more time than most Founders have already put into the game in order to even finish a single Syndicate's full reward set.

Decent post but two things.

1: Remember that I expressed that things could be improved. I am not arguing that the numbers and rewards are right at the moment. 

2: How long it takes to get good standing with EVERY syndicate isn't really my concern because..

like I said, that is not the point of them from my understanding of them.

[Davoodoo]

From what I can tell, it's based on the Affinity that your Warframe gets. That may not be accurate, but I've found that doing stuff that maximizes my Warframe's XP nets the most reputation.

 

Definitely do say if that helps, though, because that would be a significant factor and could make things a lot more reasonable.

Been doing some sechura runs with my clanmate, ive got few regular runs with 45-60% damage done and around same percantage of kills 1 run with literally 0 dmg done and 1 run when ive done 80% dmg, it made no difference, from 15 waves ive got 100 rep each run, while my clanmate at the same time was getting 300 per run.

Idk whats it based upon, but it doesnt seem to be conclave, if its affinity then maxed gear reduces rep gain.

Its beyond me to pinpoint whats causing such rep gain differences.

[SergeiTheBeast]

>ranking up eats your current reputation.

 

 

 

Pic extremely relevant.

[Feallike]

Just a update. using the MK1 Braton and Banshee i had total of 180 conclave (I had 1 HP mod on) I got a total of 70 rep from the mission. :/ I think its based on Conclave and XP.

 

 

Also did Sechura with 200 conclave and got 500 rep. (used Sheev) Got to wave 15

Edited October 26, 2014 by Feallike

[TankHunter678]

Just a update. using the MK1 Braton and Banshee i had total of 180 conclave (I had 1 HP mod on) I got a total of 70 rep from the mission. :/ I think its based on Conclave and XP.

 

 

Also did Sechura with 200 conclave and got 500 rep. (used Sheev) Got to wave 15

My conclave is over 1200 and I can get 70 rep running simply an invasion mission that has me kill 150+ enemies. Or do a 10-15 drill excavation.

[Loswaith]

you also would then have to add in the amount of reputation points it takes to rank up fully in the syndicate to the 416,500 it cost to buy everything once... in the long run.. you are still probably looking at 10-13 days of straight nonstop playing to achieve it all for 1 syndicate.

 

While I agree it is a bit excessive (plenty of people have hit the first rank within a day of relase which is what DE will likely be looking at unfortunatly) I am hoping they will be tweaking things too.

 

Lets keep in mind though one syndicate (and maybe its ally) is really what DE was looking at you being good standing with (though left options to jump around).  Though 250-350 hours of 'gameplay' to get there is still a fair strech of time anyway (even if you have a lot of free time to play warframe with).  Though I've also no idea how much reputation you gain for doing Syndicate alerts (these may be where big reputation payouts come from).

 

If they did it so that it didnt cost you to gain the rank in reputation rather than what you had to spend that to rank up you would just need the 416,500 to buy everything if you only bought it from one Syndicate (frame mods can be bought from 2 syndicates).

 

So for example if rank one was 5000 and rank 2 was 10000 reputation, buying something for 5000 while you have say 12000 rep (thus rank 2) drops your rep down to 7000 thus you are rank 1 again within the organisation.  

 

Rank seems to only allow you to buy higher stuff at this stage so having it based simply on what you have earned overall for that faction would again be a better move (of course having that overall value reduce for doing favour for other opposed/hated should effect that).  While using the current value as a representation of the favours you can call in, as the spending reputation.

 

At this point though I'd like DE to just be perfectly clear as to how much we are meant to earn so if nothing else we can see if its buggy in its calculations (after all we are meant to be testing the game and cant do that without knowing how it is meant to work).

Edited October 26, 2014 by Loswaith

[Feallike]

My conclave is over 1200 and I can get 70 rep running simply an invasion mission that has me kill 150+ enemies. Or do a 10-15 drill excavation.

 

I am talking about whether conclave has anything to do with Reputation. :/ 

 

so i don't really get the point of you posting that....

[Garuger]

IMPOSIBRUUU

[Flamingfighter]

Progression is needed. Meaningful progression the player can keep and use to make getting up there less frustrating.

 

I say have the sigil you wear modify the rate of favour gain. The more complex the sigil the faster your gain as they are essentially symbols of your allegiance. Why not, they do nothing for you currently but drain your points. If they served to modify the gain rate of faction XP then a player who HAS to loose out of thousands of hard earned points and loose rank has reason to continue with that faction.

 

Doesnt seem to make sense that you fight for a syndicate for so long and then get looked at as if you just joined because you cashed in a favour.

I got the 7500 rep sigil to see how it would affect rep gain, I ended up getting twice the amount of rep as my friends in a Defense mission, 2500 to their 1200-1400. Wasn't top player either, and I had the highest conclave.

[fatpig84]

I got the 7500 rep sigil to see how it would affect rep gain, I ended up getting twice the amount of rep as my friends in a Defense mission, 2500 to their 1200-1400. Wasn't top player either, and I had the highest conclave.

 

 

Moar sigil moar rep ?

[Yazeth]

Moar sigil moar rep ?

 

I was hoping that this is how it would work. Now, this is a guess, but here's how I think it works:

 

1) Once you rank up, you can purchase Sigils.

2) The better the Sigil, the more points you can get.

3) Possibly, equipping two Sigils of the same Syndicate will get you more points. F***.

 

^This is all a guess, though.^

Edited October 26, 2014 by Yazeth

[Flamingfighter]

I was hoping that this is how it would work. Now, this is a guess, but here's how I think it works:

 

1) Once you rank up, you can purchase Sigils.

2) The better the Sigil, the more points you can get.

3) Possibly, equipping two Sigils of the same Syndicate will get you more points.

 

^This is all a guess, though.^

You can not wear two sigils of the same syndicate, unfortunately.

[SergeiTheBeast]

Assuming that this is real, the values do not go up proportionally and the grind is far less horrible than it initially seems:

 

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/545260203901444651/C79AD57CF0679B3601DC9B0128092BD1D50BA89E/

From: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=331881341

 

This, if accurate, means that the first three ranks are 5,000 > 22,000 > 44,000. If that's the case, then the rep to rank up to 3 changes from 123,800 to 71,000, and higher ranks decrease by even further. That's a LOT more reasonable. Still a hell of a slog, but not 1000+ hours nightmare work.

 

Now there's the concern of requiring a blue potato to rank up, but that can be addressed elsewhere.

>having to sacrifice a potatoe to rank up.

 

NO! NO NO NO NO F*%&ING NO!

 

This is the dumb $*!t I was worried about.

[Mak_Gohae]

>having to sacrifice a potatoe to rank up.

 

NO! NO NO NO NO F*%&ING NO!

 

This is the dumb $*!t I was worried about.

 

You get orokin stuff every two weeks, this means nothings.

[Barhandar]

You get orokin stuff every two weeks, this means nothings.

Potatoes as sacrifices for rank-up means two things:

* The progress is additionally artificially slowed down for people who do not pay - for up to two weeks, if your figure is true.

* They must choose between ranking-up in, frankly, nearly completely useless Syndicate (the only things worth it there are keys and Large restores), and doubling capacity of their Warframe or weapon. I, personally, would choose weapon every time, syndicates as of now aren't worth it in the slightest.

[Mak_Gohae]

Potatoes as sacrifices for rank-up means two things:

* The progress is additionally artificially slowed down for people who do not pay - for up to two weeks, if your figure is true.

* They must choose between ranking-up in, frankly, nearly completely useless Syndicate (the only things worth it there are keys and Large restores), and doubling capacity of their Warframe or weapon. I, personally, would choose weapon every time, syndicates as of now aren't worth it in the slightest.

 

1- All Dev streams give orokin rewards after. And that is not counting orokin alerts and invasion missions so in between those two weeks you can get more Orokin things.

 

2- Why would you rank up if you consider the things useless? Then you wouldn't be ranking up, right?

[Davoodoo]

1- All Dev streams give orokin rewards after. And that is not counting orokin alerts and invasion missions so in between those two weeks you can get more Orokin things.

 

2- Why would you rank up if you consider the things useless? Then you wouldn't be ranking up, right?

1. So yea up to 4 weeks slowdown for non paying, since de may decide that this week we get reactor and not catalyst.

 

2.Like most of players on this forums we simply got nothing else to do cause de still havent made endgame for us.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Xardis]

I understand that forma is needed to sacrifice but at second rank??? Also why do we have to give potatoes to get a few mods??? But wait, i dont see what we need to sacrifice at rank. I suspect taht we need to sacrifice a whole clan dojo and it it only for one person... Why DE why? The cost is realy too high for the acces for few mods. We even dont get them, we have to buy them for reputation. I suggest to move those items up. 3xforma for rank 5. No potatoes coz we will have to wait for devstream and then another 24h to get those + we dont know which will it be. You are in Parrion and you need reactor? well wait another 2 week to have a chance to get this. Forma is farmable and having to sacrifice items that are not isnt fair.

[Grulos]

Let me make this note far in advance of everything else I have to say here. I am a long time player and fan of this game, regardless of the changes it all goes through, sometimes there are situations that should be rectified. I believe this is one of those times. I do not come here to complain, simply, to raise the awareness of our community of players. I have poured my love into this game and could not be happier with what I have been given. That being said, I present to you the simply facts and mathematical equations for the lovely syndicates that have been added (and a suggestion on how to perhaps make it achievable)

 

 

 

 

The Math behind the Grind (or the madness if you will)

 

 

 

 

Upon reaching Associate rank in your chosen syndicate you will lose the 5,000 reputation points you have acquired. Bye bye.

 

Considering that, lets break down simply the rewards first (I use The Perrin Sequence as my example - assuming the reward costs line up with the others).

 

To obtain 1 of every reward from the syndicate it will run you the hefty penny of 416,500 reputation points. (mind you this is without the cost of actually advancing levels... remember that 5000 that  went *poof* ). So how long does 416,500 points take to acquire? Well, I'm glad you asked. For me, when I started getting points I ran everyone's favorite Sechura - Pluto. I found that in about 10 games of 15 rounds I could get about 5,000 points.

 

So that's,   15 minutes x  10 games  = 5000 points.  150 minutes to achieve 5000 points if you do the math.

 

So lets take our 416,500 points and divide it by 5000.  That will get you roughly 83.3. You are going to take that number and multiply it by 150 minutes to get your total number of minutes to achieve 416,500 points. Then take those minutes divide by 60 for hours, and then 24 for days.

 

416,500 / 5000 = 83.3                83.3 x 150 =  12,495 minutes        12,495 / 60 = 208.25 hours      208.25 hours / 24 = 8.7 days

 

It will take you approximately 8.7 straight days (no sleep, not eating, no working, no playing with fuzzy animals....nothing)  in order to get 416,500 points just to have enough for the rewards. Mind you, that doesn't include ranking up costs. Take that number and lets multiply it by 6 for all 6 syndicates.

 

8.7 x 6 = 52 days of straight syndicate grinds.  

 

That being said, this does not take into account Syndicate Alerts, Ally Reputation, Opposed Reputation, or Enemy Reputation. Now while I'm all for end-game, this even seems a bit much to me...  and I play the game all the time.

 

 

My suggestion to try to make this easier on our players?   Change the rewards for your syndicate into credit purchases. Before you complain that that's too easy and people have money, consider this; Even if we change it to credits, you still have to work for promotion in standing points, that wont change. And if we change do change it to credits... 416,500 is not a laughable amount to the vast majority of players.. that's a huge cost. If that was credit based you are looking at 2,499,000 credits to get all the rewards (just once) from every syndicate.. not to mention the standing points and the points to rank up. Its not a perfect solution, but it will make the players feel the weight of the grind much less, while still adding in the fun elements to the game.

 

Let me know what you think, remember I'm not bashing the game or DE, I love them both, I'm just concerned with players going to feel weighed down or burned out from grinding.

Don't forget that it takes a Catalyst/Reactor to progress beyond a certain rank within the Syndicates.

 

20 plat.

 

GJ DE

[Pbrandon1]

If you are apart of the Church of Scientology, don't read this or you will get offended.

This reminds me of the Church Of Scientology. 

 

They make you cough of money and require you to have a high reputation to be treated better(Celebrities are treated like gods) or more money and do work.

 

Then, once you have coughed up sacrifices, you get more knowledge but, they still think lesser of you in the end and you gotta cough up more money to get a better understanding and more work or more reputation.

 

This isn't exact but quite close.

 

Ok, I'll probably getting warning points for this or my comment might get removed for insulting people's beliefs on the forums....

[Twilight053]

Keep in mind that this sort of thing is a long term grind.

 

Yes, for us veterans its a badly added grind.

 

However for newer players, they will progress it like they're ranking up their mastery rank.

[Yazeth]

I understand that the potato thing will be hard for starter players, but I do not see it being a problem with veterans who have stocked up on potatoes or good traders who make a nice bit of plat in a single go. People who are both or in-between (like me) also have an even more of a reason to not complain.

 

Keep in mind that this sort of thing is a long term grind.

 

Yes, for us veterans its a badly added grind.

 

However for newer players, they will progress it like they're ranking up their mastery rank.

^True. I think that this was what DE was trying to go for, to reward long-playing players who started after the update with special gear and mods.

 

Also, I'm fine with the Pluto Cerberus grind. Do 4 rounds, and you get 1k. Do 6 and you get over 2k, possibly 3k. Add in a booster, and you get 2x. Don't have the money for 20p? Spend time trading. I made 100p profit in a few hours while watching TV, and it was on the same that that I was getting back into trading, so I didn't knew what the prices were like at that time.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Yazeth

[Liminal]

Keep in mind that this sort of thing is a long term grind.

 

Yes, for us veterans its a badly added grind.

 

However for newer players, they will progress it like they're ranking up their mastery rank.

Yeah except you don't need to sacrifice a kidney to get to rank 13 :P

[Noble_Cactus]

Why not a token system for Syndicate purchases instead of straight-up credits? Instead of having to spend your hard-earned rep, you'd spend tokens that you'd earn from completing Syndicate objectives: Save this person, kill that person, restore these generators, interrogate this informant... etc. 

 

It's basic, but basic is what this game needs at this point.

[Bloodmanx]

How to make reputation system even worse :  Spend your reputation points for rewards  De edition...

 

It's nice to see new things but meh i don't know