Limbo, Development And Feedback

[Saru]

Rift surge doesn't effect the damage of cataclysm.

Nothing inside Cataclysm takes damage unless the enemy is actually inside it, and cataclysm cannot be destroyed. As for the slowing, I'd personally much rather have a 3 to 8.5 times damage multiplier. I'd also like to point out that cataclysm can protect against infinite damage, whereas when maxed a snow globe protects against 12,460. Sounds like a lot, until you're surrounded by heavy gunners that deal 2000 in one bullet from a gorgon.

Seems like you just read a wiki page and crunched numbers. You should actually try playing the game instead of theorycrafting. Don't forget cata also has dmg outside of its own ability. At higher level play its about avoiding dmg. Cata just delays the dmg till the enemies reach the inside of it then those 2k dmg bullets will tear you down, where as the frozen orbs slows the firing rate allowing you to dodge dmg.

[AdrianLeonhardt99]

Why not make Banish just like Phaselock from boderlands 2? (also pulling enemies inside the bubble)

And turning Banish and Rift Walk seems very nice since i want to see the ability that is going to take rift walk place

[Nyaughty]

 Cata just delays the dmg till the enemies reach the inside of it then those 2k dmg bullets will tear you down, where as the frozen orbs slows the firing rate allowing you to dodge dmg.

i wanna see you place a frost globe against level 100 enemies, after the 3-5 sec invulnerability, it breaks and you just die, enemies don't have to come inside

you're just another noob who just thinks that frost>limbo without even playing him

[Coatduck]

Seems like you just read a wiki page and crunched numbers. You should actually try playing the game instead of theorycrafting.

Well, let me just say, when someone suggests we run a t4s I bring my Limbo, because I can carry the team for as long as we can still get life support. If you're looking for a number crunch, try walking around phased, banishing, and then doing a ground finisher with a pair of zorens, with rift surge active. You're looking at around a million damage. Are you going to tell me cataclysm, with it's 2k damage with maxed power strength, and then an extra 200 flat impact if an enemy decides to wander out of it, is better than one million on a high priority target?

 

 

-snip-

This person sums up the rest pretty well.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Coatduck

[(PSN)Le_SenseiX]

Since Limbo is a magician and his casting time is undeniably long how about casting rift walk or cataclysm involves a quick snap of fingers?

That would be way more efficient plus you get a sexy animation to go with the lore.

[Nyaughty]

Well, let me just say, when someone suggests we run a t4s I bring my Limbo, because I can carry the team for as long as we can still get life support. If you're looking for a number crunch, try walking around phased, banishing, and then doing a ground finisher with a pair of zorens, with rift surge active. 

 

I HAZ AN IMPORTANT QUESTION

banish does an impact proc 100%, but doesnt knock enemies down....

[Coatduck]

I HAZ AN IMPORTANT QUESTION

banish does an impact proc 100%, but doesnt knock enemies down....

Yeah it does. If you catch an enemy in an ability animation it doesn't though, like while a gunner is doing a ground pound.

[RFaul]

Well while I play mostly as Nekros because of the buff on the drop rate, I love playing Limbo, he's by far the best resser. There wasn't a single game I wiped while playing Limbo no matter how much noob the other players are.

 

And I do use Banish on players for educational/disciplinary purposes. While it may be regarded as trolling, if a player dies where he shouldn't be at first place like in defense or mobile defense missions and I have to leave the proper defending position in order to get there to ress him he gets banished afterwards so he can't do anything else if he stays there but to amass mobs and then he comes to the defending position. 

 

If there's a Nekros in the group and a noob player is  spamming ultimates for mob disintegration preventing desecraton I also banish him. In fact by playing Nekros I feel being trolled by ultimate spammers, the new mod really alleviated that but ultimate spamming with a Nekros in the group is completely dumb. I feel completely disheartened when I leave a MD mission with my Nekros with less than 50 upgrades because players wandered too far way from the defense position while also reducing mob spawning effectiveness or mega range ultimate spamming. So as a Limbo if there's a Nekros in the group I take the role of an educator... 

[Llyssa]

Well while I play mostly as Nekros because of the buff on the drop rate, I love playing Limbo, he's by far the best resser. There wasn't a single game I wiped while playing Limbo no matter how much noob the other players are.

 

And I do use Banish on players for educational/disciplinary purposes. While it may be regarded as trolling, if a player dies where he shouldn't be at first place like in defense or mobile defense missions and I have to leave the proper defending position in order to get there to ress him he gets banished afterwards so he can't do anything else if he stays there but to amass mobs and then he comes to the defending position. 

 

If there's a Nekros in the group and a noob player is  spamming ultimates for mob disintegration preventing desecraton I also banish him. In fact by playing Nekros I feel being trolled by ultimate spammers, the new mod really alleviated that but ultimate spamming with a Nekros in the group is completely dumb. I feel completely disheartened when I leave a MD mission with my Nekros with less than 50 upgrades because players wandered too far way from the defense position while also reducing mob spawning effectiveness or mega range ultimate spamming. So as a Limbo if there's a Nekros in the group I take the role of an educator... 

Gotta say--you're the n00b if you think things killed by ultimates can't be desecrated. Go ahead and try desecrating afterwards. You'll be amazed!(Yes, this is true for ALL ults).

 

Semi-unrelated: When will cataclysm be fixed/altered? It's the only skill I actively avoid using of all the frames in all the game, as it has tons of drawbacks and teensy tiny utility. Kind of strange playing a frame and being afraid to accidentally hit the ult.

[RFaul]

Gotta say--you're the n00b if you think things killed by ultimates can't be desecrated. Go ahead and try desecrating afterwards. You'll be amazed!(Yes, this is true for ALL ults).

 

Semi-unrelated: When will cataclysm be fixed/altered? It's the only skill I actively avoid using of all the frames in all the game, as it has tons of drawbacks and teensy tiny utility. Kind of strange playing a frame and being afraid to accidentally hit the ult.

 

 

I don't even know how to start this. Please go play Nekros before stating things like this or do some research. I challenge anyone to try to Desecrate corpses 6 sec after they have been vaporized by an ultimate and then notice how it doesn't work. All the while bodies that aren't vaporized can be Desecrated for much longer. As I said the new mod allows for more frequent desecrates but still it isn't enough to compete with frenzied roaming spawn ruining ultimate spammers.

 

And I like how Cataclysm is now, instead of turning it into a spamable ultimate I think ultimates should be more of a strategical asset and have a duration and a cooldown like Cataclysm and some others do.

[ToolboxMotley]

How overpowered would it really be to simply allow item pickup and mission-item-carrying while Rifted? I understand it was an attempted balance factor, but ultimately, its main result is aggravation. It makes Cataclysm into a major doubled-edged sword with the more sharpened edge as the handle. This power and its denial of item pickup is probably the biggest reason some people groan when Limbo comes into their game.

 

Other Warframes have similar "invincibility" effects that allow item pickup and mission-item-carrying, with their own individual pros and cons.

 

Rhino's Iron Skin doesn't deny functionality in any field, and lasts forever once cast. Granted, it's not very effective invincibility after enemy scaling in bigger missions, but I still felt it should be an example.

 

Valkyr's Hysteria gives flat-out invincibility while keeping item interaction, with locked-melee as its only drawback, and that drawback being softened by the severe boost in melee effectiveness.

 

Loki and Ash have their respective invisibility powers, each of which give major boosts to melee damage and don't mess with item interaction, as well as giving the plethora of benefits that come with being unnoticed by the enemy. The main drawback is that it's not TRUE invincibility, so stray bullets and AoEs aimed at your friends can still hit you if you're not careful. (And, to be fair, arguably every OTHER ability in Loki's arsenal also gives him effective ways to mitigate damage at any level of play, too; if we were to balance Limbo against Loki, few requests would be too extreme.)

 

I hear Zephyr's Turbulence is a pretty effective godmode, as well, that doesn't lock out item interaction. Perhaps Mesa, as well, if I understand the Shatter Shield mechanics properly? Though that still lets 5% damage through, and neither protect against melee damage.

 

Anyway, the balancing factor for Limbo, aside from item interactions, is the fact that it makes him take a tremendous blow to killing power, and he is still quite vulnerable to enemies that he brings to the Rift with him. He also cannot affect bosses with his Rift except via the use of Cataclysm, which is very difficult to utilize for "assassination" purposes as intended targets can move out, and unintended targets can move in. So he either has to put himself at risk by creating a Cataclysm, or put himself at risk by leaving the Rift himself.

Now, the killing power balancing factor would be slightly offset by rolling his third power into the Rift as a passive effect as many have contemplated (which I agree with, and will get into my eyeroll-inducing replacement next), but the fact would remain that only Rifted enemies could be attacked. It would still be a very slow-going process regardless of the damage boost.

 

 

 

Now, if the third ability were made passive, obviously there'd need to be a replacement... I know everyone and their dog has their own ideas for what to put in its place, but here's mine anyway, after some minor explanation.

 

I've read here that you can shoot out of the Rift by using Volt's Electric Shield... What about giving that to Limbo, as well, albeit in a more risky fashion?

 

One person's idea was for the third ability to create "portals" that would allow allies to enter the Rift by their own choice. What about taking this further? Allies and enemies both can pass through the portals... As can bullets and projectiles. Shooting through would "toggle" Rift status on whatever goes through. This way, you could set up little windows inside of a Cataclysm that you could shoot through, but through which enemies could shoot back, as well. This could also be paired with other Frames' abilities for some good synergy/teamwork. Pair it with Electric Shield or Snowglobe to still be able to shoot out of a Cataclysm without danger (for when Electric Shield is inevitably denied the ability to do so on its own), or with-... Whatever other abilities would pair well with it, I don't know.

 

How the passive damage boost would come into play with the ability, I don't know. Rifted shooters get the damage boost? Rifted receivers get hit with extra damage? Any Rift involvement at all applies the damage boost? Not sure. But I think a bullet-affecting portal (probably the same size as Nova's) would offer a lot of utility and fix some of Limbo's problems.

 

Two other ideas I agree with: Being able to recast Cataclysm to move it, and

 

Since Limbo is a magician and his casting time is undeniably long how about casting rift walk or cataclysm involves a quick snap of fingers?

That would be way more efficient plus you get a sexy animation to go with the lore.

 

that, because I love finger-snapping animations. Makes you feel so powerful and in-control to wreak havoc with a small hand gesture. :)

 

Also, being affected by things outside the Rift while inside is extremely frustrating. Friggin' auras. >:( Learned the hard way while first leveling Limbo that Raptor's missiles ignore the rift, too.

 

I'm pretty sure I had more thoughts swimming about in my head, but at present time, I can't remember them. I'll leave it at this.

 

EDIT: Oh, also, you can't use Codex Scanners while in the Rift! D: At least not on non-Rifted enemies. Loki's got 'im so topped.

Edited January 3, 2015 by ToolboxMotley

[Pizzarugi]

How overpowered would it really be too simply allow item pickup and mission-item-carrying while Rifted? I understand it was an attempted balance factor, but ultimately, its main result is aggravation.

This, very much this.

I really want to play Limbo a lot more, but his lack of synergy with other teammates and the massive troll potential brought on by trapping mission items in cataclysm forces me to play another frame that doesn't interrupt the flow of my team.

[ToolboxMotley]

This, very much this.

I really want to play Limbo a lot more, but his lack of synergy with other teammates and the massive troll potential brought on by trapping mission items in cataclysm forces me to play another frame that doesn't interrupt the flow of my team.

 

Oh, blast it, your quote highlights a typo I hadn't noticed. :(

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I think it would be cool if rift walking removed debuffs placed on the player/s. Also, I don't like how auras can still penetrate the rift, that shouldn't be.

 

Also I don't know if it works this way, currently, but being able to cast cataclysm then rift walk and be able to shoot the enemies inside the bubble from a distance because you're both in the rift would be nice. This would make Limbo a little less single-target oriented.

 

Rift Surge is kinda useless as Limbo should just do a similar damage multiplier just for banishing enemies to the void and casting Cataclysm can increase the damage/ damage focus.

 

I know this is minor, but it would be cool if Limbo could have his color design changed so that his tuxedo and accessories could be colored differently. For example, my Limbo has a navy blue tux and black shoes, but I'd like to be able to give him a black top hat without changing his suit color. Another image change would be to give him a front wearing yomo style syandana that looks like a tux scarf.

 

[VentiGlondi]

Limbo needs more reason to banish enemies.

He can deal more damage to enemies within the rift, and that's about it. He needs more abilities that cause some effect within the rift.

[ToolboxMotley]

Limbo needs more reason to banish enemies.

He can deal more damage to enemies within the rift, and that's about it. He needs more abilities that cause some effect within the rift.

 

I personally think the current bonuses to being in the Rift are enough (with the damage boost, possibly even without it). Being able to select who can hurt who is pretty potent. It just needs to be made less inconvenient. Any more positive effects, and his annoying fun-killing drawbacks become more justified. I'd rather have the basic functionality working properly (no getting hit by non-Rifted toxic auras, augh!) before getting new gimmicks. X)

Edited December 31, 2014 by ToolboxMotley

[(PSN)Le_SenseiX]

Dunno I just feel like Limbo's skillset is a waste of such potentially awesome frame. The moment I hear "Rift" and "Void" a massive amount of ideas come to my head for a frame such as Limbo.

 

On the other hand I also feel like Limbo's abilities are soooorta there, but not quite. I have mixed feelings about Limbo - should he be entirely rethinked so as to squeeze out the possibilities of a Void-controller frame, or tweak those already there to make him work nicely?

 

Either way, he needs some changes. That is undeniable.

[ToolboxMotley]

I love his core moveset, myself. I feel that Banish and Rift Walk are perfect where they are (barring the problems with the Rift itself). Cataclysm is mostly-good, but I'd love it if it could be re-placed similar to Loki's Decoy. And the third skill... I'll be honest, it bores me a wee bit, but it's not COMPLETELY terrible.

 

What needs changing most are the just-for-frustration mechanics plaguing the Rift in general. Item restriction being the absolute biggest one.

[Tithus]

OK enough fun, make us able to toggle cataclysm on/off already.

[DEDENX]

I know it's late, but...  The one thing I'd really like to see is Limbo's Banish being able to take enemies/people out of the rift while they're inside cataclysm.

[ComfyOlivia]

 

 

I don't even know how to start this. Please go play Nekros before stating things like this or do some research. I challenge anyone to try to Desecrate corpses 6 sec after they have been vaporized by an ultimate and then notice how it doesn't work. All the while bodies that aren't vaporized can be Desecrated for much longer. As I said the new mod allows for more frequent desecrates but still it isn't enough to compete with frenzied roaming spawn ruining ultimate spammers.

 

And I like how Cataclysm is now, instead of turning it into a spamable ultimate I think ultimates should be more of a strategical asset and have a duration and a cooldown like Cataclysm and some others do.

 

 

Idk about your build, but I have no problem cooperating with other people's ults. With Natural Talent on, each dese should take around a second. At that rate, 6 seconds is plenty.

 

Besides that, Llyssa is waaaaaayyyy your elder in this community. I don't mean to be a kissass or whatever, Llyssa has more than triple that playtime you have. (I know this because I did my research). What you call research is something Llyssa has already played over. In fact, Llyssa's most played frame IS Nekros, which he has played for basically half of your entire playtime. Please do YOUR research before you go off on a "I have over 450 hours so I know everything!" rant.

 

 

 

 

On topic, I feel as though Limbo is a solid frame. He has some quirks, but those can be worked around. If any of his abilities need some tweaking, it's Cata. The cooldown and tactical aspect are great. My complaint is interaction. Why do we instantly drop any non-weapon items that we are holding when we walk through it? And why is enemies' loot not lootable in limbo after they died in limbo? It didn't drop out of their pockets when they entered, so why is it suddenly not in limbo when their owners die?

[Nyaughty]

 

I've read here that you can shoot out of the Rift by using Volt's Electric Shield... What about giving that to Limbo, as well, albeit in a more risky fashion?

 

One person's idea was for the third ability to create "portals" that would allow allies to enter the Rift by their own choice. What about taking this further? Allies and enemies both can pass through the portals... As can bullets and projectiles. Shooting through would "toggle" Rift status on whatever goes through. This way, you could set up little windows inside of a Cataclysm that you could shoot through, but through which enemies could shoot back, as well. This could also be paired with other Frames' abilities for some good synergy/teamwork. Pair it with Electric Shield or Snowglobe to still be able to shoot out of a Cataclysm without danger (for when Electric Shield is inevitably denied the ability to do so on its own), or with-... Whatever other abilities would pair well with it, I don't know.

 

having the enemies shoot through this "window" doesn't sounds good

but having allied projectiles/bullets/frames/companions only to use it sounds better

also, you two who talk about nekros, SHUT IT

this is a topic about limbo, nobody cares about your nekros's build

Edited January 3, 2015 by Alodapos

[ToolboxMotley]

having the enemies shoot through this "window" doesn't sounds good

but having allied projectiles/bullets/frames/companions only to use it sounds better

 

It's open to debate, of course. X) Letting enemies shoot through just seems like a kinda neat high-risk-high-reward mechanic, to me, whereas limiting it to allies gives it all the reward with none of the risk, removes potential for teamwork, and brings it closer to Cataclysm in function. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it getting in with only allies being affected, was just trying to give it some balance factor. :P

[AnonMD]

It would be neat to give Limbo a passive that throws himself into the rift whenever he gets below a certain health threshold. You'd have to give it a CD though.

[Old-Blue]

Seems like folks actually like Limbo. He just needs his tweaks and its been a couple of months now....