New Music Preview: Derelict & Void

[43Emprah]

See, to me, it seems heavily out of place--there's no one to be doing the singing, unless there's some cheesy, ancient recording playing while we're in there. That thought is rather eyeroll-inducing.

 

I don't think lyrics belong in video game music unless there's a legit source for what's playing them. The only time it's acceptable is when it's "pure instrumental"(example: halo theme), ie. lyrics-free. Except this has distinctive sounds--it has lyrics. They're *probably* gibberish, but they are still very distinctly words rather than sounds.

 

So if it can either be re-voiced with instruments(which would negate them being words) or rewritten as to make them not words(given how they're employed, this would be exceedingly difficult), it would make sense. Either would be acceptable from an end-product stand point, but I'm not sure how readily the latter can be done in this case.

No one is following your Tenno around beating on Taiko drums in every mission either...

[Xepharyx]

I absolutely love these, mad props to George and the sound design guys. 

 

Some thoughts on the Void one: 

 

I feel that it's a great piece of music in terms of ambience, makes you feel like you're part of something ancient and magnificent. I'm actually on my second or third listen, and the first half is giving off a very Ghost-In-The-Shell-ish vibe, and I love it. Remember the scene in GitS 2 where the observation craft flies past the gigantic Locus Solus headquarters building that looks like an infinitesimally large cathedral? That's the kind of vibe I like, and the one that the Void should have.

 

The second movement, beginning around 1:16, is also a really nicely composed piece of music, however I think that it's not the right one for the Void. The piece feels like it's wrapping around you, and comforting you as you gaze at whatever soft, warm sight is on front of you. The Void, at least how I perceive it, should feel majestic, yes, but with a sort of coldness and detachment. It's almost as if, every time I enter the Void, I am intruding somewhere I should not be, sort of like the baby Tenno sneaking into the daddy Orokin's study to read some books or something. The music should have kept the minor strains that made the first movement so haunting, and maybe, here's an idea that would be difficult to implement in coding, but would be absolutely awesome, the violins could fade in slowly as the player gets closer and closer to extraction, making it seem like the Tenno are leaving the haunted empty palace and going back to the warm, welcoming starmap with lots of Grineer that want to hug them.

 

Overall, great set though, like it a lot.

[ThePyromage]

Damn that sounds good. 

Which reminds me, will there be a way to purchase the soundtrack at any time? I would totally spend 5-10 dollars on the soundtrack. 

Especially if it includes this. 

[OniDax]

I don't really like the fact that there is happy tune in there, i feel like it needs more of sad tone.

(well unless tenno are that hyped about orokin empire in ruins)

 

Something like this.

 

Why? It's not about how the Tenno feel. It's about the Orokin.

 

Great job DE! Love both music pieces.

Edited November 7, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[MusicGamer]

Dude!  These are awesome!  DE (and more specifically George, who if I read that post right is DE's Sound Designer [or one of them]), you...Brilliant!

 

The Void one really captures the majesty of the Orokin Empire; it makes it seem like a ghost of the Empire's former self, which is basically what the Orokin Towers are.

 

The Derelict one, on the other hand, really captures the corrupting nature of the Technocyte Virus and the Infested as well as its effect on the Orokin, and the dissonant choir that is present in the piece really serves to remind the listener that what they are standing in used to be a majestic stronghold for this once-grand Empire, tarnished by the Virus that created the Tenno in the first place.

 

Very, very well done!

[Llyssa]

No one is following your Tenno around beating on Taiko drums in every mission either...

Firstly, speak for yourself, I have helpers for that sort of thing, and secondly, voices require, y'know, owners.

 

The drums could be my heartbeat. The synth could be the radiowaves. There's a ton of the world around us, and some people hear more music in things than others. Even indinstinct (wordless) voices could be the imagination playing tricks, the wind whistling through a space, or misheard echoes.

 

However, worded voices(even in an unintelligible language) can't be. Someone has to be saying them. There's generally nothing that sounds quite like them. In the case that there *is* something that sounds like them, it would be preferable to use that noise instead.

[FillyHarmonic]

Hello tenno! (hey that rhymes!)

Rebecca: is there any chance of a Soundtrack being available for the musics of the groups of enemies? 
 

[SoulEchelon]

The derelict tileset music is really nice. Keep it up.

 

I don't really feel the void one, it's a bit out of place.

 

 

DE_George:

 

Orokin Void Ambient Music:

These tilesets have sound design elements that are ethereal, bell-like and breathy.  So we wanted the music to complement that tone.  With the music we are aiming to make it religious, majestic, sacred, and holy.  The music should evoke the glory of what the Orokin are fabled to be.  We also wanted it to sound different from all the other music that is currently in the game:

 

There's your answer.

 

Anyway, I'm really loving the music. Note that these are just previews however; they aren't finished.

 

I wonder if the music in the void gets a bit more hectic during battles? Either way, I'm digging them both.

[ntyd1s]

The chanting and temple ambient seem out of place but I'd really love to hear here how they fit in!! o_o

They are going to affect the mood and how I play on subconscious level.

 

So far I only dislike Corpus combat music, too many repetitive portions and too much like 'Turn down for what'. >_>

[SoulEchelon]

Firstly, speak for yourself, I have helpers for that sort of thing, and secondly, voices require, y'know, owners.

 

The drums could be my heartbeat. The synth could be the radiowaves. There's a ton of the world around us, and some people hear more music in things than others. Even indinstinct (wordless) voices could be the imagination playing tricks, the wind whistling through a space, or misheard echoes.

 

However, worded voices(even in an unintelligible language) can't be. Someone has to be saying them. There's generally nothing that sounds quite like them. In the case that there *is* something that sounds like them, it would be preferable to use that noise instead.

 

That's your opinion, and an extremely close-minded one.

[LukeAura]

The drums could be my heartbeat. The synth could be the radiowaves. There's a ton of the world around us, and some people hear more music in things than others. Even indinstinct (wordless) voices could be the imagination playing tricks, the wind whistling through a space, or misheard echoes.

 

However, worded voices(even in an unintelligible language) can't be. Someone has to be saying them. There's generally nothing that sounds quite like them. In the case that there *is* something that sounds like them, it would be preferable to use that noise instead.

So what's stopping these voices from being a recording played by the neural sentry in veneration of its gods long dead and it was never programmed to make the distinction? 

If we're going that far out to justify taiko drums following tenno around I think we can craft theories to justify chanting. It's also ambience, it doesn't have to be considered part of the world around it, only set the tone for it. 

[LunarTemplar]

thoughts on ...

 

Void: could use a little more work, but not much, very good, and very fitting.

 

Derelict; You could ship it as is and it'd be fine with me.

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

Will ever be able to buy/download the sound track?

I really like the Orokin Void one.

[gnat6]

Curse you DE I always play with the sound muted because I prefer listening to my own music when playing warframe and now I am going to have turn it back on /end overly complicated way of saying I like the new music.

[Reaar]

I think the void theme will be "fixed" by making whatever plays from 1:15 a bit more quiet, putting it more into the background.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Reaar

[Instinction]

Not sure I'm feeling the Gregorian type chanting bit. I like the ambient music itself, but I think the human voices really throw it off.

[Morgax]

There's your answer.

 

Anyway, I'm really loving the music. Note that these are just previews however; they aren't finished.

 

I wonder if the music in the void gets a bit more hectic during battles? Either way, I'm digging them both.

What was the question then? Because i really don't know.

So essentially if you put any song that is currently not in game the statement will be true, because it's different.

 

As for majestic/religious i don't that hear it either. It feels more like village festival.

 

 

Why? It's not about how the Tenno feel. It's about the Orokin.

 

Great job DE! Love both music pieces.

 

Tenno were part of orokin empire, and we are playing from their perspective, hence it is about how tenno feel.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Morgax

[Blakrana]

Firstly, speak for yourself, I have helpers for that sort of thing, and secondly, voices require, y'know, owners.

 

The drums could be my heartbeat. The synth could be the radiowaves. There's a ton of the world around us, and some people hear more music in things than others. Even indinstinct (wordless) voices could be the imagination playing tricks, the wind whistling through a space, or misheard echoes.

 

However, worded voices(even in an unintelligible language) can't be. Someone has to be saying them. There's generally nothing that sounds quite like them. In the case that there *is* something that sounds like them, it would be preferable to use that noise instead.

 

You seem to be of the view that, if it can be perceived in the game environment, it must have a verifiable source, yes?

 

Yet the entire history of game music typically expresses the direct opposite. Final Fantasy, Dark Souls, Golden Sun, Valkyrie Profile, Assassin's Creed, Halo...the greater majority of these games have incredibly diverse musical scores, that have as much to do with the environment as those context sensitive highlights, although some do make an allusion to Augmented Reality devices in the latter case.

 

It is, on average, an extremely particular exception to the standard rule, when the music you hear is actually being made in world; one such example is the music that plays when going to fight

Van at the Absorption Gate

in Tales of the Abyss, where said individual is playing on an organ the whole time.

 

Do you have difficulty with film scores and television stuff as well? The same argument of 'source needed' can apply there, after all.

 

The fact is, creating music for a medium creates a context for further immersion. A book may be difficult to read without some music in the background, whereas others may demand abject silence. Games owe a fair bit of heritage to films, where musical scores help set tones, establish character feelings beyond merely the actor's efforts. At the end of the day, Games are a descendant of the human theatrical heritage with all the trappings. It's a faux pas to complain about the songs sung in a pantomime or the music in the background of a theatre, is it not?

 

Through music, games can provide depth and detail, again, like films do, to a situation where it's all too nuanced to capture in dialogue or action. When you create multimedia fiction, it's one of the necessary features of suspension of disbelief. However, it also gives greater weight to a situation that the realistic abject silence but for the clicking of triggers and such can create.

 

How dull would gaming be, if we only ever had the directly justifiable sounds? Gone would be the beauty of such music like Dearly Beloved in Kingdom Hearts, or any of it's beautiful battle themes. Gone would be the defining sound of Final Fantasy. The pathos found in the Dark Souls soundtrack swept aside, leaving an absence to the battles fought against beings like Artorias or Gwyn, Lord of Cinder. Halo would be a hollow shadow without its musical score. Music is part of how humans can tell and understand a story. In my brief stint as a Gamesmaster, I did exactly that to give that feeling of otherness my words alone failed to provide, where it mattered. Wherever you go into fiction that is not merely written, there is a sound to be heard to add narrative weight.

 

It may rub you the wrong way, but if you can justify Taiko drums as metaphorical heartbeats, is it so difficult to consider the chanting within the Void that of defiant Orokin ghosts?

 

In summary: Game music always rests on the use of Suspension of Disbelief, whereby the music one hears is never more than a meta feature to augment the tone and mood of given areas, actions or events. It is very rarely used in a manner where it is actually part of the game world, and it's presence in gaming is part of it's heritage as a multimedia story telling device.

 

Much like films and TV series, music plays much the same role, and limiting ourselves to only the most sparse sounds that can be fully justified, as in real life, would detract from the experience, making gaming a far less potent medium. It is always possible to attempt to justify some parts of music in games, as indeed in films, but to make it a requisite that all things are necessarily justifiable simply takes a knife to the ever necessary role of the Chorus.

 

Music is as much part of gaming as the artwork used to create the worlds, and they are often wedded together to give a whole experience, like the Film industry that proceeded it.

[Llyssa]

So what's stopping these voices from being a recording played by the neural sentry in veneration of its gods long dead and it was never programmed to make the distinction? 

If we're going that far out to justify taiko drums following tenno around I think we can craft theories to justify chanting. It's also ambience, it doesn't have to be considered part of the world around it, only set the tone for it. 

They could be. But, as I said, that makes it less "majestic" and more "cheesy". Oh, listen to that soundtrack the Orokin picked to make you think of them as gods as it plays on repeat.

 

Or in simpler terms, "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

 

Talk about taking away the mysticism.

[Llyssa]

-blah blah blah-

It's poor game design to have voices in the music of a game where your objective is to kill anything that might have a voice.

 

Games are not like movies. When you hear a sound out of place in a movie, it's because someone thought you should. When you hear a sound that's out of place in a game, it's because you need to kill the source.

 

If we're having distinct voices that are neither A: helping us, b: taunting us, or c: killable, they're irrelevant, and don't belong.

 

If that's still too difficult for people to grasp, let me word it in a way you understand, "The voices make it sound like @#$@%."

 

So my suggestion is that it shouldn't be too hard for the sound team to alter it to make it not sound like @#$#@%.

Can you wrap your head around that?

Edited November 7, 2014 by Llyssa

[JackPaladin]

Sounds amazing!

[Blakrana]

It's poor game design to have voices in the music of a game where your objective is to kill anything that might have a voice.

 

Games are not like movies. When you hear a sound out of place in a movie, it's because someone thought you should. When you hear a sound that's out of place in a game, it's because you need to kill the source.

 

If we're having distinct voices that are neither A: helping us, b: taunting us, or c: killable, they're irrelevant, and don't belong.

 

Then the issue is rather the difference between foley work and pure ambience, separate creatures in the long run. The best answer I have to that is to remove all ambient music volume, whilst leaving the effects on. Games do actually have sliders for that typically, so there's not much more to it than that.

 

Curious, but if that's what works for you, then fair enough. Audio cues opposed to audio 'shaders', in essence.

[rubensfelix]

Oh god, it's amazing

[[DE]George]

Hey everyone,

 

First of all it's great to hear that you are enjoying the new music preview.  Here are answers to some of the questions I've seen pop up:

 

1.  Yes, there will be combat music for both the Void and Derelict as well.  These two pieces are just the ambient music for preview.  We try to make the ambient music in the game compliment the sound design of the tiles so that it blends into the sound atmosphere of the locations you are in.

2.  The composer of the music is Keith Power.  He writes most of the music for Warframe, and he was the composer for Dark Sector ;)

3.  A soundtrack will be available at some point in the near future.  As many of you know we have recently been overhauling a lot of the music in the game for various reasons, so we have been gathering these new pieces for an official soundtrack as we go along.

4.  Like the rest of the music in the game, these pieces will play back dynamically.  That means that each piece of music will be broken out into stems that can play individually of one another (bass, percussion, vocals, etc).  So the game engine will dynamically bring each stem's volume in and out depending on the gameplay and other factors.

5.  Also, please do keep in mind that this preview is still rough.  The music needs to be mixed properly (certain elements are too loud, others are too low), and the music needs to be mastered (certain audio frequencies need to be adjusted). 

 

DE_George.

[LukeAura]

It's poor game design to have voices in the music of a game where your objective is to kill anything that might have a voice.

 

Games are not like movies. When you hear a sound out of place in a movie, it's because someone thought you should. When you hear a sound that's out of place in a game, it's because you need to kill the source.

We're here to kill Corpus/Infested/Grineer, not everything. There are rescue targets we are trying to save, there are civilian settlements we protect, Darvo, Ordis, the Lotus, our respective Syndicate leaders. No, we are not here to kill everything that might have a voice. This is also in the background, it will not exist in the same level of sound that the 'kills those voices' sounds exists. 

And does the off kilter shrill of the infested corpus ships need to be killed? Last I checked it didn't have a source, nothing in the corpus ship makes such a sharp falling note, and no one has complained that they can't kill it yet.

 

They could be. But, as I said, that makes it less "majestic" and more "cheesy". Oh, listen to that soundtrack the Orokin picked to make you think of them as gods as it plays on repeat.

In a game about killing everything with a voice the ambient music will probably be the least heard. This is hardly something people will notice 'on repeat'.

And the Orokin are only really mystical because we know nothing about them. They built giant golden palaces.... and Rhino's cod piece, Mag Prime's Eye, and that doesn't make you question their sense of majesty already? 

Again, you're going to such extremes to make things seem out of place on a rough work, that this is just your opinion. It does not extend to a greater level of objectivity.