So, You Got Rid Of Overheat... Only To Introduce Shatter Shield...

[TwiceDead]

Not quite sure what's going on right now. Overheat had a damage reduction at around 80% (memory might fail me), but DE figured they had to remove overheat because it was too powerful or it didn't fit the theme Ember was trying to portray. 

Now they introduced Shatter Shield, which is basically Overheat except it might not work on melee attacks (says it only reflects bullets), but when do you get hit by melee anyway? 

Sooo... 

What game are you playing here DE? Except Warframe. 

 

Edit:

To clarify, they got rid of most percentage based damage mitigation abilities such as old Iron Skin and Overheat because they were too powerful, yet now they re-introduce this mitigation mechanic for Shatter Shield. So either DE didn't learn from their mistakes and removed old Iron Skin and Overheat only to spite their playerbase(doubt it), or they introduced it because of how peacemaker roots you into the ground. Thing is, you don't have to use peacemaker, so it's basically old Iron Skin and Overheat over again. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by TwiceDead

[Lynxh]

I'm not sure what your point is?

 

They removed it for reasons you pointed out, and now they added a variation of overheat to another frame/kit.

 

Edit

 

Just to clarify, 80% is bit on the high side Imo, but that's another discussion. 

 

If you really are so concerned with abilities like these I reckon you have a longer list of abilities you take issue with, that do the same and even better then Shatter Shield. 

 

I feel it's more important that skills mesh well with the rest of the Kit and role, and keep it a bit balanced in terms of power of the overall frame. Kinda like Mirage, Mesa needs this to operate on higher level. Just like some other frames have similar skill to either compensate or reinforce their role.

 

In terms of ember, I think she needs a buff/change to further solidify her performance and role. I however fully support the Accelerate addition/Overheat removal, albeit not it's execution. 

 

And rhino (in short) has enough going for him to not have Iron skin be mitigation imo. Especially In comparison to Mesa.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Lynxh

[Morgax]

Ember was mobile and could spam her ultimate  right and left while running around, mesa is glued to ground during her ultimate.

Anyway just my theory.

[GinKenshin]

because ember doesn't need overheat, but mesa needs her shattered shield 

[TrinityPrime]

Shush you or you'll get them nerfed and somehow trinity will get nerfed in the process too!

[KirukaChan]

If it only counts actual bullets, it means that not only do you have to worry about melee attacks, but also Eximus auras, grapples, and all manner of explosions.

 

I don't actually have Mesa yet, though. Maybe someone who has her can share their experience?

[tocorro]

because ember doesn't need overheat, but mesa needs her shattered shield 

 

I disagree. Ember needs some love. I don't mind much spamming accelerant to stun enemies, but to be honest I miss overheat. She is too plushy without it.

[Kihana]

Shush you or you'll get them nerfed and somehow trinity will get nerfed in the process too!

 

And some idiot will call for a Valkyr nerf while they're at it. Not that it will happen.

[quietcanary]

bro have you heard about eclipse yet?

[TwiceDead]

bro have you heard about eclipse yet?

Eclipse hardly counts. 

It can save your &#! yes, but simultaneously if you dare dodge you risk going into light area which can F*** you over. You have to consider your placement with that ability, which gives an element of skill to it compared to Overheat or Old Iron Skin.

 

Whether or not you get the mitigation or the damage amplification entirely depends on the players placement, and reckless movement will shred your arse if you were going for the mitigation but #*($%%@ up. 

[Darkmoone1]

And some idiot will call for a Valkyr nerf while they're at it. Not that it will happen.

Oh they wouldn't dare touch Valkyr. Not after all the positive changes that was made to her. D:

 

Anyway i'm gonna agree with what was said here. Shattered shield is Mesas way to survive. Without it she would never be able to actually use her Peace Maker without being shred to pieces.

[quietcanary]

There isn't any skill about it. Don't accidently get knocked out and you can tank forever. no need to dodge. the hardest part is finding a dark area. my point is I made a topic exactly like this when eclipse came out (or I was going to and probably forgot) and eclipse is much closer to overheat for sure with the added slap to the face of doing accelerants job as well. That is all mostly opinions anyway but besides that  I truly agree with the sentiment it was just that you where arriving late to the party.

[TwiceDead]

I see your point and it's not that I completely disagree with you, it's just that I think Eclipse has a bit more to it due to how it behaves with light/dark spots. Knowing dark spots in a tile is knowledge that can aid you in making skillful plays. Maybe the DR is a bit excessive but otherwise I like its light/dark mechanic. 

 

In comparison Overheat/Old Iron Skin was just something you slapped on and you were immortal forever since you can both tank and avoid bullets without worrying about losing your damage resistance. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by TwiceDead

[quietcanary]

I don't. I find it silly. Seemed like a excuse to steal overheat and accelerant and now we have a frame about tricks/light/illusions/and darkness that is also encroaching on the gunslingers territory even before hes out. I may be slightly bitter but the power creep/tinfoil hat conspiracy is real...

 

Totally off topic I have gotten. I just don't like shatter shield since its a weird version of link honestly. While her ult is fancy stand-still-and-get-shot bladestorm. Oh yeah im certainly bitter...

[Fari]

I feel bad for ember every time I use it.

 

 

If it only counts actual bullets, it means that not only do you have to worry about melee attacks, but also Eximus auras, grapples, and all manner of explosions.

 

I don't actually have Mesa yet, though. Maybe someone who has her can share their experience?

 

Well it definitely doesn't block melee or infested explosions, pretty sure it doesn't stop auras or grapples. Not sure about general explosions.

Edited November 29, 2014 by NearoC

[TwiceDead]

I may be slightly bitter but the power creep/tinfoil hat conspiracy is real...

I can definitely agree with this without a single ounce of doubt. 

And now that you mention it, it really is just a weird version of Link. Huh. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by TwiceDead

[LascarCapable]

Not quite sure what's going on right now. Overheat had a damage reduction at around 80% (memory might fail me), but DE figured they had to remove overheat because it was too powerful or it didn't fit the theme Ember was trying to portray. 

 

Too powerful, I don't know. But I think It's mainly because it wasn't fitting Ember's theme.

[quietcanary]

Theme-shmeem... shouldn't make mistakes in the first place like that if your going to ruin a good thing (a thing that works decently, and now doesn't).

 

Seems people never know which reason it was nerfed, too OP, or off theme. Id argue for days both points but ik that's a dead horse and that's not what we came here for lol.

 

Point though is that if it was either of those back then what makes gunslinger mesa, or power-creep theme mirage any diff? Another is why does DE think im stupid and cant see the very very obvious.

 

Okay bitter overload im leaving now. ttfn

[Ronyn]

I think the true question being asked here is the "why". And I think it's a good one.

 

We can all speculate and guess that its ok for one frame and not another because of "theme" and "kit" which would make a certain kind of sense.

But on the other hand some of the reasoning it seemed like at the time was because it was just "too strong" or "not right for the game" which would mean it shouldn't show up on any frame. So which is it?

 

In my general view of things I think Warframe has changed a lot over the years. I think some stuff that the designers were against early on are ok with them now. So that is why we saw embers overheat get removed and rhinos iron skin nerfed.

yet we now have Valkyr with melee focused invincibility, Limbo with a plane shifting form of invincibility, and mesa with extreme damage reduction.

Not to mentioned several other frames that can crowd control so many enemies they barely get hit anyway.

 

Perhaps, instead of looking to nerf the newer frames what we need is a revisit on the older ones.

Ember is too squishy for a caster with so many spells that are AOE which expands directly outward from her position. 

Rhino's iron skin is great for being a tough guy but generally fails at letting him tank for allies without a better taunt and more resilience.

[tris1]

considering the damage reduction I don't think it fits her theme its more of a melee tank or melee frames or tank frames like rhino/Excalibur/frost

[akira_him]

considering the damage reduction I don't think it fits her theme its more of a melee tank or melee frames or tank frames like rhino/Excalibur/frost

She is a gunslinger/gun-kata themed frame so she should dodge bullets with minimum movements

and shatter shield is the closest thing we can get

[RexRgisIocus]

Not quite sure what's going on right now. Overheat had a damage reduction at around 80% (memory might fail me), but DE figured they had to remove overheat because it was too powerful or it didn't fit the theme Ember was trying to portray. 

Now they introduced Shatter Shield, which is basically Overheat except it might not work on melee attacks (says it only reflects bullets), but when do you get hit by melee anyway? 

Sooo... 

What game are you playing here DE? Except Warframe. 

 

Edit:

To clarify, they got rid of most percentage based damage mitigation abilities such as old Iron Skin and Overheat because they were too powerful, yet now they re-introduce this mitigation mechanic for Shatter Shield. So either DE didn't learn from their mistakes and removed old Iron Skin and Overheat only to spite their playerbase(doubt it), or they introduced it because of how peacemaker roots you into the ground. Thing is, you don't have to use peacemaker, so it's basically old Iron Skin and Overheat over again. 

 

I don't remember how old Iron Skin worked but Overheat could go up to 94% damage mitigation + 200 damage per tick in a 2.5m (or was it 5m) radius around Ember + knockdown immunity + Ember's ulti keeps her mobile. Overheat was too good, period. Shatter Shield on the other hand has 80% damage mitigation against bullets + reflects a % of that and that's it. Also Peacemaker makes you dead unless you have Shatter Shield active.

 

[RexRgisIocus]

I can definitely agree with this without a single ounce of doubt. 

And now that you mention it, it really is just a weird version of Link. Huh. 

 

Link is still a lot better. 75% damage mitigation + status immunity + knockdown immunity and reflects damage back to 3 targets.

[Ronyn]

considering the damage reduction I don't think it fits her theme its more of a melee tank or melee frames or tank frames like rhino/Excalibur/frost

It should be her dodging bullets instead of just absorbing them.

 

 

She is a gunslinger/gun-kata themed frame so she should dodge bullets with minimum movements

and shatter shield is the closest thing we can get

 

I think they could get closer to dodging. Like if there were little phantom like images of her shifting her body to doge bullets...

like how the agents dodged bullets in the matrix. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ronyn

[Ronyn]

I don't remember how old Iron Skin worked but Overheat could go up to 94% damage mitigation + 200 damage per tick in a 2.5m (or was it 5m) radius around Ember + knockdown immunity + Ember's ulti keeps her mobile. Overheat was too good, period. Shatter Shield on the other hand has 80% damage mitigation against bullets + reflects a % of that and that's it. Also Peacemaker makes you dead unless you have Shatter Shield active.

 

When an ability is too good it can be toned down. It doesn't have to be entirely removed.