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Void Drop Tables' Rotation C Was Stealth Nerfed, Please Raise Awareness Of This Issue

cyrus106

By cyrus106,
in Missions & Levels

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Tubercle1801

Tubercle1801

Posted
Posted

DE has screwed up the RNG drops so consistently with loot dilution and wave restrictions that it is entering an entirely stupid level.

 

Yes, I do get that you want to generate income from plat sales but this is ridiculous. Your RNG system is so blatantly lazy in design and execution, with the repeating drop loot and cramming all the new S#&$ into rotation C of survivals and defense. Did you even look at how bloated the list were? How about the consistent idiotic filling up of archwing missions with garbage drops.

 

I have barely played the game for farming because it is just brain rot at this point aside from events which again, brainrot.

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Bibliothekar

Bibliothekar

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Great, now let's compound the terrible drop tables by making keys even harder to get.

Or, you know, they might tackle the problem after 15.9, when you don't get T4 keys a dozen a dime any more. But yeah, let's leap to conclusions and yell at DE before the update is even out ...

Seriously, guys, calm down a little.

Your RNG system is so blatantly lazy in design and execution,

Actually the RNG itself is fine, they even did a post about it a while back then they changed it because it was predictable. The actual problem is that some parts have far too high probabilities assigned compared to others. And when you're looking for a specific part, you're much more likely to notice all the times you don't get it, because that's just how our brain works. Edited by Bibliothekar
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cyrus106

cyrus106

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Or, you know, they might tackle the problem after 15.9, when you don't get T4 keys a dozen a dime any more. But yeah, let's leap to conclusions and yell at DE before the update is even out ...

Seriously, guys, calm down a little.

Actually the RNG itself is fine, they even did a post about it a while back then they changed it because it was predictable. The actual problem is that some parts have far too high probabilities assigned compared to others. And when you're looking for a specific part, you're much more likely to notice all the times you don't get it, because that's just how our brain works.

Before you tell everybody the RNG is fine perhaps I need to show you *ahem* my sources on this recent issue. PM me if interested Edited by cyrus106
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goggles2

goggles2

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as others have said RNG is a fine system when the item drop chance weighting on items is fair and equal

 

the current system is complete bs some items seem like they have a 40% chance (they drop every second game) or they have a 0.01% chance (200 keys later)

 

RNG would be fine if drop chance weight was fixed

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Tubercle1801

Tubercle1801

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Or, you know, they might tackle the problem after 15.9, when you don't get T4 keys a dozen a dime any more. But yeah, let's leap to conclusions and yell at DE before the update is even out ...

Seriously, guys, calm down a little.

Actually the RNG itself is fine, they even did a post about it a while back then they changed it because it was predictable. The actual problem is that some parts have far too high probabilities assigned compared to others. And when you're looking for a specific part, you're much more likely to notice all the times you don't get it, because that's just how our brain works.

 

Thank you for the clarification. The assigned RNG being borked is just indicative of the shortcomings the devs in implementing a decent drop system. Personally, I feel that they should just make the items plat exclusive for a period before introducing them into the void drop or archwing missions. It's like you are dangling your player base with rigged mechanics and suckering your player base with game burnout for an abysmal chance of the desired part dropping.

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cyrus106

cyrus106

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as others have said RNG is a fine system when the item drop chance weighting on items is fair and equal

 

the current system is complete bs some items seem like they have a 40% chance (they drop every second game) or they have a 0.01% chance (200 keys later)

 

RNG would be fine if drop chance weight was fixed

more like 25% and 7.5% respectively, but regardless you are right certain things drop way too much

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Wiegraf

Wiegraf

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IMHO, each part should have an equal chance to drop on their defined tier with Fusion Cores, Forma and such weighting less.

 

As in, if a tier has a chance for 6 prime parts along with a chance for a Fusion Core or Forma, then instead of each part having set individual weights, they should have equal weight with Fusion Cores and Formas weighting a bit less (or, depending on DE's focus, a bit more).

 

(Chances shown below are just examples, not suggestions)

 

An equitable spread of 8 items (including forma / fusion core) should be 12.5% for each. But DE could make it so 80% of it is spread between the 6 parts and the last 20% between the forma and fusion core. Thus, there would be a 13.3% x 6 chance for a prime part and (assuming a format and a fusion core would have equal chances) a 10% chance for a fusion core and another 10% chance for the forma.

 

Or the other way around, increasing the weight of the forma / FC to something like 40% and 60% for the prime parts, leaving 10% x 6 chance for a prime part and 20% for a fusion core and 20% for a forma.

 

Of course, I'm guessing the changes in rarity are to adjust with the newly added Ducats and Bara Ki'Teer. If you got too many prime parts, you'd get easy Ducats... but at the same time, you want to at least get a prime part but have an equivalent chance to get the part you're aiming for amongst all available parts of that tier instead of making certain parts insanely rarer than others.

 

Just today, two of my clan mates ran 16 T1C. Results were 8 Boar Prime Receivers and 8 T2C key. While yes, maybe RNG is just messing with them, it's hard to think they REALLY could have gotten 8 receivers and 8 keys in 16 attempts. I'm highly doubtful the other available prime parts are weighted equally.

 

Of course, there's our lack of ability to recognize true randomness... that might just be sheer bad luck... but even the OP posted similar outcomes with certain rewards coming out more often. If there was a way to simulate a thousand or ten thousand runs instantly for the same key and compile the results, it would be easier to figure out a definite pattern or rather, a tendency.

Edited by Wiegraf
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Quizel

Quizel

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Posted

Well, not sure if someone mentioned this in the past 200 post, 

 

players wanted stacking rewards for defense/interception. They got it and... also got S#&$ on cuz the reward table shifted to balance it. And any negative balance is gonna be met with hatred.

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DJ_Redwire

DJ_Redwire

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Whenever, and I mean whenever, people ask DE for a system or dramatic change that is put in place for the purpose of reducing the influence of RNG - stop and think first before you ask such things from DE. The change of stacking rewards is no different. A solution to an RNG problem may seem simple, but there are cogs in play you cannot predict. There will always be ramifications - there will always be a catch. It's not always easy to see, but it's massively important for people to look beyond the list of current issues and ask themselves "could this get worse with this change?" And if a year and a half of Warframe has taught me anything, is that it can and will.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Be careful what you wish for Tenno, you might just get it.

Edited by DJ_Redwire
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plznohurtme

plznohurtme

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Well, not sure if someone mentioned this in the past 200 post, 

 

players wanted stacking rewards for defense/interception. They got it and... also got S#&$ on cuz the reward table shifted to balance it. And any negative balance is gonna be met with hatred.

Whenever, and I mean whenever, people ask DE for a system or dramatic change that is put in place for the purpose of reducing the influence of RNG - stop and think first before you ask such things from DE. The change of stacking rewards is no different. A solution to an RNG problem may seem simple, but there are cogs in play you cannot predict. There will always be ramifications - there will always be a catch. It's not always easy to see, but it's massively important for people to look beyond the list of current issues and ask themselves "could this get worse with this change?" And if a year and a half of Warframe has taught me anything, is that it can and will.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Be careful what you wish for Tenno, you might just get it.

 

 

This actually has very little to do with the issue... here's the problem that is happening (using T4D as an example because of my annoying experiences last night):

 

A (wave 5/10) drops:
 
  • Dakra Prime Blueprint - 20% drop chance
  • Forma Blueprint - 20% drop chance
  • Fusion Core (5) - 20% drop chance
  • Lex Prime Blueprint - 20% drop chance
  • Orthos Prime Handle - 20% drop chance
 
B (wave 15) drops:
 
  • Braton Prime Barrel - 25% drop chance
  • Braton Prime Receiver - 25% drop chance
  • Forma Blueprint - 25% drop chance
  • Fusion Core (5) - 25% drop chance
 
C (wave 20) drops:
 
  • Ember Prime Blueprint - 5.64% drop chance
  • Fusion Core (5) - 5.64% drop chance
  • Loki Prime Systems Blueprint - 5.64% drop chance
  • Nyx Prime Blueprint - 5.64% drop chance
  • Ankyros Prime Gauntlet - 19.36% drop chance
  • Boltor Prime Receiver - 19.36% drop chance
  • Burston Prime Receiver - 19.36% drop chance
  • Forma Blueprint - 19.36% drop chance
 

You see A/B all have equal drop rates between everything, and quite frankly I think it's debatable that this should even be the case, but it's at least fair.  C on the other hand does not they're horribly weighted regarding what you will see.  With how long it takes for playing endless and how much more often you see A (and plausibly B) it doesn't make sense that not only does C have *more* drops to choose from but not even equal chances.  It seems pretty clear to me that when they allowed for stacking rewards they did not do a good rework on the drop rates/tables.

 

There have been many solutions suggested throughout this thread and quite frankly any number of them would work, but myself I'd just like to see equal drop rates between items at the very minimum.  Other solutions have been just remove forma/cores from rotation C, changing from AABC repeating to ABC, or AABC/ABC/BC/CC.  It wouldn't take much to be a step in the right direction.

Edited by plznohurtme
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