cyrus106 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Don't think that's a good idea. Put it in the thread for Friday's devstream, it's much more fitting there and we might actually get an answer. And it'll even be on tape ... *whistles innocently* Ok we'll do that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armando92 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 They still haven't commented? Boooooooooooooooo worst thing is that the T4Key issue was already addressed here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/381122-poll-key-rewards-as-syndicate-offerings/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ampoth Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 worst thing is that the T4Key issue was already addressed here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/381122-poll-key-rewards-as-syndicate-offerings/ Great, now let's compound the terrible drop tables by making keys even harder to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Great, now let's compound the terrible drop tables by making keys even harder to get. Not a fun combination at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishki88 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 worst thing is that the T4Key issue was already addressed here https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/381122-poll-key-rewards-as-syndicate-offerings/ Option 3: Not utilizing any of it and just bandwagon in Recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrhat.lf Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If Rotation C doesn't get changed in 15.9 or announced in DaveStream 44, I hope Frost freezes them in their office with a steady food supply and clean water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubercle1801 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 DE has screwed up the RNG drops so consistently with loot dilution and wave restrictions that it is entering an entirely stupid level. Yes, I do get that you want to generate income from plat sales but this is ridiculous. Your RNG system is so blatantly lazy in design and execution, with the repeating drop loot and cramming all the new S#&$ into rotation C of survivals and defense. Did you even look at how bloated the list were? How about the consistent idiotic filling up of archwing missions with garbage drops. I have barely played the game for farming because it is just brain rot at this point aside from events which again, brainrot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 If Rotation C doesn't get changed in 15.9 or announced in DaveStream 44, I hope Frost freezes them in their office with a steady food supply and clean water. Karma's a *@##$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibliothekar Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Great, now let's compound the terrible drop tables by making keys even harder to get.Or, you know, they might tackle the problem after 15.9, when you don't get T4 keys a dozen a dime any more. But yeah, let's leap to conclusions and yell at DE before the update is even out ...Seriously, guys, calm down a little. Your RNG system is so blatantly lazy in design and execution,Actually the RNG itself is fine, they even did a post about it a while back then they changed it because it was predictable. The actual problem is that some parts have far too high probabilities assigned compared to others. And when you're looking for a specific part, you're much more likely to notice all the times you don't get it, because that's just how our brain works. Edited January 8, 2015 by Bibliothekar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Or, you know, they might tackle the problem after 15.9, when you don't get T4 keys a dozen a dime any more. But yeah, let's leap to conclusions and yell at DE before the update is even out ... Seriously, guys, calm down a little. Actually the RNG itself is fine, they even did a post about it a while back then they changed it because it was predictable. The actual problem is that some parts have far too high probabilities assigned compared to others. And when you're looking for a specific part, you're much more likely to notice all the times you don't get it, because that's just how our brain works. Before you tell everybody the RNG is fine perhaps I need to show you *ahem* my sources on this recent issue. PM me if interested Edited January 8, 2015 by cyrus106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-Arcadia Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Has any dev answered to this topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibliothekar Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Before you tell everybody the RNG is fine perhaps I need to show you *ahem* my sources on this recent issue. I've seen it. And as I said, the RNG by itself is fine, it's the assigned probabilities, which is all you've seen there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 Has any dev answered to this topic? No they have ignored it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goggles2 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 as others have said RNG is a fine system when the item drop chance weighting on items is fair and equal the current system is complete bs some items seem like they have a 40% chance (they drop every second game) or they have a 0.01% chance (200 keys later) RNG would be fine if drop chance weight was fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubercle1801 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Or, you know, they might tackle the problem after 15.9, when you don't get T4 keys a dozen a dime any more. But yeah, let's leap to conclusions and yell at DE before the update is even out ... Seriously, guys, calm down a little. Actually the RNG itself is fine, they even did a post about it a while back then they changed it because it was predictable. The actual problem is that some parts have far too high probabilities assigned compared to others. And when you're looking for a specific part, you're much more likely to notice all the times you don't get it, because that's just how our brain works. Thank you for the clarification. The assigned RNG being borked is just indicative of the shortcomings the devs in implementing a decent drop system. Personally, I feel that they should just make the items plat exclusive for a period before introducing them into the void drop or archwing missions. It's like you are dangling your player base with rigged mechanics and suckering your player base with game burnout for an abysmal chance of the desired part dropping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrus106 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 as others have said RNG is a fine system when the item drop chance weighting on items is fair and equal the current system is complete bs some items seem like they have a 40% chance (they drop every second game) or they have a 0.01% chance (200 keys later) RNG would be fine if drop chance weight was fixed more like 25% and 7.5% respectively, but regardless you are right certain things drop way too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiegraf Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) IMHO, each part should have an equal chance to drop on their defined tier with Fusion Cores, Forma and such weighting less. As in, if a tier has a chance for 6 prime parts along with a chance for a Fusion Core or Forma, then instead of each part having set individual weights, they should have equal weight with Fusion Cores and Formas weighting a bit less (or, depending on DE's focus, a bit more). (Chances shown below are just examples, not suggestions) An equitable spread of 8 items (including forma / fusion core) should be 12.5% for each. But DE could make it so 80% of it is spread between the 6 parts and the last 20% between the forma and fusion core. Thus, there would be a 13.3% x 6 chance for a prime part and (assuming a format and a fusion core would have equal chances) a 10% chance for a fusion core and another 10% chance for the forma. Or the other way around, increasing the weight of the forma / FC to something like 40% and 60% for the prime parts, leaving 10% x 6 chance for a prime part and 20% for a fusion core and 20% for a forma. Of course, I'm guessing the changes in rarity are to adjust with the newly added Ducats and Bara Ki'Teer. If you got too many prime parts, you'd get easy Ducats... but at the same time, you want to at least get a prime part but have an equivalent chance to get the part you're aiming for amongst all available parts of that tier instead of making certain parts insanely rarer than others. Just today, two of my clan mates ran 16 T1C. Results were 8 Boar Prime Receivers and 8 T2C key. While yes, maybe RNG is just messing with them, it's hard to think they REALLY could have gotten 8 receivers and 8 keys in 16 attempts. I'm highly doubtful the other available prime parts are weighted equally. Of course, there's our lack of ability to recognize true randomness... that might just be sheer bad luck... but even the OP posted similar outcomes with certain rewards coming out more often. If there was a way to simulate a thousand or ten thousand runs instantly for the same key and compile the results, it would be easier to figure out a definite pattern or rather, a tendency. Edited January 8, 2015 by Wiegraf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 No they have ignored it i am sure then don't! but devs develop. they follow commands from de owners. and company must make money. so its just business. nothing personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRevelation Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Yep, just why didn't you told us the chance get DE? Bad move IMHO. And that thing with rewarding for staying longer.. PLEASE think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZxpferTH Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 LOL they just ignore it atleast i got a first class seat to complain ( first page ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvidzix Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 T1 defense full of T1-T3 keys, as I had not done long voids for some time, I was like ok, but then the same happened again and again, and with T1C same story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus-Venera Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 If Rotation C doesn't get changed in 15.9 or announced in DaveStream 44, I hope Frost freezes them in their office with a steady food supply and clean water. dont play till next update :) its waste of time. play something else and wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quizel Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Well, not sure if someone mentioned this in the past 200 post, players wanted stacking rewards for defense/interception. They got it and... also got S#&$ on cuz the reward table shifted to balance it. And any negative balance is gonna be met with hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Whenever, and I mean whenever, people ask DE for a system or dramatic change that is put in place for the purpose of reducing the influence of RNG - stop and think first before you ask such things from DE. The change of stacking rewards is no different. A solution to an RNG problem may seem simple, but there are cogs in play you cannot predict. There will always be ramifications - there will always be a catch. It's not always easy to see, but it's massively important for people to look beyond the list of current issues and ask themselves "could this get worse with this change?" And if a year and a half of Warframe has taught me anything, is that it can and will. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Be careful what you wish for Tenno, you might just get it. Edited January 8, 2015 by DJ_Redwire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plznohurtme Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Well, not sure if someone mentioned this in the past 200 post, players wanted stacking rewards for defense/interception. They got it and... also got S#&$ on cuz the reward table shifted to balance it. And any negative balance is gonna be met with hatred. Whenever, and I mean whenever, people ask DE for a system or dramatic change that is put in place for the purpose of reducing the influence of RNG - stop and think first before you ask such things from DE. The change of stacking rewards is no different. A solution to an RNG problem may seem simple, but there are cogs in play you cannot predict. There will always be ramifications - there will always be a catch. It's not always easy to see, but it's massively important for people to look beyond the list of current issues and ask themselves "could this get worse with this change?" And if a year and a half of Warframe has taught me anything, is that it can and will. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Be careful what you wish for Tenno, you might just get it. This actually has very little to do with the issue... here's the problem that is happening (using T4D as an example because of my annoying experiences last night): A (wave 5/10) drops: Dakra Prime Blueprint - 20% drop chance Forma Blueprint - 20% drop chance Fusion Core (5) - 20% drop chance Lex Prime Blueprint - 20% drop chance Orthos Prime Handle - 20% drop chance B (wave 15) drops: Braton Prime Barrel - 25% drop chance Braton Prime Receiver - 25% drop chance Forma Blueprint - 25% drop chance Fusion Core (5) - 25% drop chance C (wave 20) drops: Ember Prime Blueprint - 5.64% drop chance Fusion Core (5) - 5.64% drop chance Loki Prime Systems Blueprint - 5.64% drop chance Nyx Prime Blueprint - 5.64% drop chance Ankyros Prime Gauntlet - 19.36% drop chance Boltor Prime Receiver - 19.36% drop chance Burston Prime Receiver - 19.36% drop chance Forma Blueprint - 19.36% drop chance You see A/B all have equal drop rates between everything, and quite frankly I think it's debatable that this should even be the case, but it's at least fair. C on the other hand does not they're horribly weighted regarding what you will see. With how long it takes for playing endless and how much more often you see A (and plausibly B) it doesn't make sense that not only does C have *more* drops to choose from but not even equal chances. It seems pretty clear to me that when they allowed for stacking rewards they did not do a good rework on the drop rates/tables. There have been many solutions suggested throughout this thread and quite frankly any number of them would work, but myself I'd just like to see equal drop rates between items at the very minimum. Other solutions have been just remove forma/cores from rotation C, changing from AABC repeating to ABC, or AABC/ABC/BC/CC. It wouldn't take much to be a step in the right direction. Edited January 8, 2015 by plznohurtme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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