Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[Kasarian]

See thats what im talking about. This game's "system" doesnt FORCE you to do ANYTHING. at all. Stop saying that. It's silly already. 

 

No it doesn't, not directly. What forces people including me to farm for ducats is the fact that even not maxed prime mods have better stats than their "common" counterparts while not having any drawbacks besides obviously leveling. And if you miss to get your chance by some event in real life you are forced to pay handsomely in plats and tax credit to get it, again not everybody is a whale or wants to farm 1kk credits just to be able to trade.

[ndantony]

...

...The inherent issue lies in the impossibility of completing all the game's content.

Personally, I hope the contents cannot be consumed that quick.

Maybe I can expect that from the games that I have bought once and play complete. But for Warframe, this is a living and evolving game that I'm willing to continue invest.

[JaviiMii]

I think I'm one of the "newer" players. Joined during the Halloween special and been at Warframe since. Sometimes I spend a lot of time on Warframe and sometimes very little. As for the Ducats: I have no problem whatsoever getting ~1200 within two weeks without even really trying. If trying even 500 Ducats a day are very well possible (did that when i spontaneously decided to buy the prisma gorgon after I spent almost all my ducats). So there I really don't see a problem. (And also there are more than enough Void keys, I think)

 

As for the Cores and the Credits; Setting the Primed mods from Baro aside I think there is a balance. - But With those primed mods it becomes a little tricky. I personally just buy the mod and may it slowly over time; up to Rank 7 is kind of quick and affordable. Then it becomes a pain in the a**. But Rank 7 is already better than the non-primed version. So I don't have a problem taking my time; one load of cores/duplicates at a time. 

 

You are completely right when it is about "getting and maxing everything right away". No, I think no one can keep up with that. But just keeping up in general (have new mods up so they are at least as good as the normal ones) is very well possible - and everything else is just a matter of time. - Which is actually a good thing I guess; veteran players can may a mod they really want right away when they put all / a lot of their resources in there. - Newer players who don't have those resources yet have to take their time. And that's a good thing. Otherwise you could give every new player an "all-mods-in-the-game-pack" when they log in for the first time. 

[Yorinar]

See thats what im talking about. This game's "system" doesnt FORCE you to do ANYTHING. at all. Stop saying that. It's silly already. 

 

Completionism has been a valid playstyle for 99% of warframe's history.  In the grand scheme of things, there is always the option to abandon Warframe, just as Sartre points out in the real world we always have an alternative option -- the one of last resort.  I leave it to you to look that up.

 

Assuming we all don't want to just quit Warframe, in order for a player to maintain the previously valid completionist playstyle you have to play beyond the realm of anything sustainable even by "no-lifers".  So the game system IS forcing us to do something.  Give up being completionists or quit Warframe.  Or the third of option of dying in our chair, eyes bloodshot and hand cramped waiting for that next core to drop.

[OnimaruX]

I swear if the next Prime mod is some game changing mod that I must have to maximize my builds I'm done seriously (inb4 primed intensify/stretch)

Edited February 18, 2015 by OnimaruX

[MaverickZero]

I swear if the next Prime mod is some game changing mod that I must have to maximize my builds I'm done seriously (inb4 primed intensify/stretch)

Spoilers ahead: Get farming because you shouldn't miss the next batch

[HibikiGanaha]

I swear if the next Prime mod is some game changing mod that I must have to maximize my builds I'm done seriously (inb4 primed intensify/stretch)

Primed reach is already game changing.  You can melee nullifiers through their bubble with rank 10.

[Phatose]

Completionism has been a valid playstyle for 99% of warframe's history.  In the grand scheme of things, there is always the option to abandon Warframe, just as Sartre points out in the real world we always have an alternative option -- the one of last resort.  I leave it to you to look that up.

 

Assuming we all don't want to just quit Warframe, in order for a player to maintain the previously valid completionist playstyle you have to play beyond the realm of anything sustainable even by "no-lifers".  So the game system IS forcing us to do something.  Give up being completionists or quit Warframe.  Or the third of option of dying in our chair, eyes bloodshot and hand cramped waiting for that next core to drop.

 

Not it hasn't.  It hasn't been a valid playstyle since Primed Chamber at the very least, and then you factor in the Closed Beta items, and completionism stopped being a valid play style since closed beta ended.

[OnimaruX]

Spoilers ahead: Get farming because you shouldn't miss the next batch

Oh no could it be what I think it is, our worst fears are coming true: primed serration

 

Me: Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

Just joking, but seriously if that did happen I don't know what to say.

Edited February 18, 2015 by OnimaruX

[Kasarian]

Nah, Serration thankfully is already rank 10 mod. But I can already imagine the *@##$ing about primed intensify or stretch...

Edited February 18, 2015 by Kasarian

[SnakeWildlife]

I think this can all be solved...if we plot to assassinate Baro Ki'Teer

[jennibear]

I see a lot of people commenting "you don't NEED to have every mod and item"

 

Well, that isn't the point, the point is that I WANT them, and I should be able to obtain them without struggling.

 

 

+1 to OP, the cred costs NEED to go down

[Neogeo]

You play any game because you want to have it all. Otherwise what is the point of playing. It's human nature to want to have all of something.

It's not a reason to complain that you can't get it all as fast as you want to get it.

That's my point.

No. I play many games where I just want to move on to the next chapter and go through the storyline as fast as possible. While warframe and many mmo use the carrot stick to keep people playing the game. It's painfully obvious but some of you still keep denying this.

You know how silly you guys sound. You guys are literally saying "No, I don't want loot. I just wanted to play that T4S or whatever void mission for the 100 times because it's fun killing the same enemy that I'd killed since the beginning of warframe."

Let me get this straight, the game play get old as soon as the novelty wear off. The only reason we keep playing is because of loot. Denying that is like denying the very nature of mmo

Edited February 19, 2015 by Neogeo

[Herosupport]

+1 I totally agree with the OP the last time the Void Trader came i had to choose between mastery points or useful mods i chose the mastery points because DE keeps getting rid of weapons and makes ranking up even harder then it has to be.

[Ralsk]

I totally agree with the OP.  This has been especially noticeable for me the last couple visits with Baro as I'm balancing college, work, and even with spending almost all of my free time on warframe I'm barely scraping enough together for each time Baro visits.  After this past visit I was down to 0 ducats and 142 credits!  And I don't even buy everything.  Yes he may have crap mods for the week but if you miss a mod you may want, and you never know when that will happen much less when he'll be bringing those mods back, you're basically forced to be ready to buy them each week.  If you do miss one then you can get it from a player but with a freaking 1 mil credit trade tax.  This is not sustainable, it is not a realistic setup, and it needs to be changed.

[ndantony]

I think this can all be solved...if we plot to assassinate Baro Ki'Teer

LOL. I like your sense of humor.

 

But by the way, why trying hasten thing and burn yourself out? Take thing slowly and enjoy. 

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

I sorta want to weigh in on something that hasn't been mentioned yet that I feel is really important to this particular subject. The enjoyment factor of playing warframe.

 

Reason there are so many people divided on this particular subject is because the way in which people enjoy the game varies, of course. There are those whose main draw to the game is the mechanics/combat variety/power fantasy etc. And then there are those whose main draw to the game is progress. And among that subset of gamers there are the more dedicated completionists who derive enjoyment from a sense of completion of self made or game-derived goals.

 

As a side, I want to say that there isn't anything inherently wrong with the completionist mindset. Its simply how some people like to enjoy games. Nothing wrong with that. Not to mention warframe is heavily geared towards attracting these types of players.

 

The issue OP seems to be trying to push across it that warframe seems to be moving in a direction that threatens the enjoyability of gamers like himself due to the poor implementation of these newer long term goals.

 

While "grinding" has always been present in warframe in one form or another it's generally been relatively short term goals which made it easier to progress at a manageable pace with a decent amount of enjoyable milestones along the way. These newer long term goals increase the gaps between milestones by a pretty sizable amount. And DE seems to be heading in the direction that leads to larger and larger amounts of time being dedicated to what is essentially the same amount of content.

 

This is a very slippery slope to go down. Everybody has their breaking point and larger gaps between enjoyment spikes can lead to less enjoyment overall for those of us that find enjoyment through steady progression.

 

DE needs to find a way to make their long term goals actually enjoyable to progress in or people are just going to end up disappointed or burnt out while trying to achieve them.

[SnakeWildlife]

LOL. I like your sense of humor.

 

But by the way, why trying hasten thing and burn yourself out? Take thing slowly and enjoy.

I actually do, i dont sit all day running draco, i enjoy the normal content multiple times over by introducing and helping friends.

The problem is for someone like me, is that as these mods and weapons are likely set to be one-time exclusives like many things of the past, i cant slow down. Dont get me wrong though i love having something to do, but when that something is becoming impossible, the playerbase which like to work very hard for everything...become lost and the way they like to play, is destroyed.

Its bad for DE's revenue, it will drasticly effect game population, and DEs reputation will be damaged by the tag 'Pay-to-Win' being applied to their game.

What theyre asking is impossible, and its not fair to the hardest workers.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

As a fellow veteran I absolutely agree with this.

 

Credit costs are severely becoming a drain its even worse than platinum drain as platinum you have can easily buy or trade for plat without draining your time or life. Credits on the other hand will need a lot of time to be able to sufficiently replenish the amount of credits you utilize for maxing mods and buying stuff from void trader not. Plus generally the fusion cost is really unreasonable for maxing a mod from rank 9 to 10 :/

Edited February 19, 2015 by HARDCORE_DAVE

[taiiat]

all of those words are a fallacy because you're basically whining that you can't 'finish' content faster than Digital Extremes puts it out.

wrong.

a game can be a lot more interesting if content is coming to a player faster than they can devour it.

there is no problem with having actual goals regardless of what point in the game you are.

all i'm really hearing from threads like this is you got content and something to do, and you don't like it. which is weird because Veteran Players often complain about not having any goals or anything to do.

[Doom_Bunny]

I think this can all be solved...if we plot to assassinate Baro Ki'Teer

He can go get his own damn prime parts *insert rude gesture*

 

I don't mind the rank 10 mods they're basically a long term goal to rank up, like what serration is for a new player.

 

The ducat/credit pricing however is outrageous. Arfter the drop to 10 ducats per "common" prime part you need at most 150 prime parts to be on the safe side, and due to prisma and prime mods it looks like it's only going to get more expensive. I don't know about the rest of you but 150 prime parts is a hell of alot even 100 prime parts is alot. DE could stand to bring the price of ducats up or dramatically drop the price of items from the void trader.

 

However there is another idea (that doesn't involve pricing) in a different thread. The idea was for the items to build up sort of like a snowball effect. When the void trader comes around next time he'll also have the items from his previous visits. This way all players new and old wouldn't have to constantly grind the void, or wait for the rotation of that item. Instead they could just jump on the void teader when they're ready.....and when the void trader shows up at the hub from vaccation. The only fiddly thing would be timing; how long he stays, and how long he is gone.

[Loswaith]

On; "you dont need to collect everything"

 You do realise that is why these kind of games exist right.  It plays on the human psyche for the need to complete what we start.  Many 'endless'/collectable games work on this princeable not just digital ones.

Because ppl like extra credits :)

Part two hit on this this more so than part one but both touch it (part one is linked for completion's sake ;P)

 

 

The current 'Void' Trader loot works currently much like events every 2 weeks; limited 'prizes' available only for a short time, for grinding out some missions.  We know some will eventually return we just dont know when, as event mods have shown us.

 

That said maybe the old stuff should stay around untill say 5 lots have been revealed the 6th batch would then drop the first off the traders list.  This then gives 5 odd itterations to let players see and build to what they want.

 

Ducats are out of the reach of new players as well (for the most part). Ducats at best are an intermediate to veteran player thing. New players have no real excess of prime parts to off load due to them either making their own primes or not accessing void much at all, becuse they dont really have a minimum power to handle the majority of those missions.

 

As to Cores:

This may not be as bad as it sounds. 

Having cores as rewards for many planets along the growth path is likely to mean at the end of that path (the point of say 500+ hours) that newer players will inherently have more cores than those at the current point.

Derelict nav points are a good example here; they were a huge grind for the vets that didnt passivly accumulate them 'along their journey', however they are now basically trivial for everyone to make.

We have to keep in mind on things like this, as DE has to look at the entire trip from Newbie to Veteran's of MR15+.

 

While this could apply to ducats as well, ducats feel more akin to the Vey Hek nav points than the Derelict ones in that it's specific to one certain area that you almost have to go out of your way to collect.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Loswaith

[SgtFlex]

all of those words are a fallacy because you're basically whining that you can't 'finish' content faster than Digital Extremes puts it out.

wrong.

a game can be a lot more interesting if content is coming to a player faster than they can devour it.

there is no problem with having actual goals regardless of what point in the game you are.

all i'm really hearing from threads like this is you got content and something to do, and you don't like it. which is weird because Veteran Players often complain about not having any goals or anything to do.

This isn't good content though. DE could've made some sort of challenges each week with varying out missions that we have to do. The original concept of the void trader would've been just fine. This isn't the end-game "content" I ever wanted. It's a stupid endless grind. Every completionist that's part of Warframe will know what each other talk about when it comes to these primed mods. We spend countless hours grinding our &#! off in the same damn tileset for hours upon hours. This isn't a challenge. It isn't hard to go through 40 T4 keys, or spam away your T1 keys. This isn't content, it's a goddamn repetetive grind that was never this bad in Warframe.

I haven't touched Warframe with hours upon hours gameplay like I used for a couple weeks now simply because I got burned out on the Void trader grind. It's not fun anymore. This is what I feel like Warframe has to offer anymore, and it's just not fun. It was done, and it can be considered content, but like what DE hasn't done so many times in the past, is actually flesh out the idea and perceive how other players would perceive it. It's boring, nothing new, and an absolute grind fest for the Ducats, cores, and Credits. At least the cores aren't so bad anymore since I can go many places on the Starchart now and get cores, but the Credit grind and Ducat grind is still absolutely atrocius

Edited February 19, 2015 by SgtFlex

[NocturneOfSolace]

You don't need to have all modes maxed to 10.

You don't need to buy every stuff Baro'Ki'Teer comes with.

You don't need to be best of the best, just because you are MR-19 nolifer.

You are playing this game for too long, and you can't realise such simple things? "Tainted and ruined beyond salvation."

Your desires to have everything is your fault, not DE's one. Stop being that childish.

"I'm powerful mr-19 pro, and I need to have it all." Why? "Because it exists!"

If I'll place a mountain near your city, you are going to climb it, just because it exists, right? This is what your "logic" tells.

That's only your fault. Stop talking this "Year of quality."

You are only hurting yourself, Tenno.

 

Literally one of the most brainless things I've ever seen posted in these forums ever, way to completely miss the point

I don't think he said anything about getting and maxing every primed mod, I've not bought them all and I'm having a majorly difficult time maxing them out

Furthermore, sometimes some of us want these primed mods because, oh hey imagine that, they're useful, WHAT A SHOCKER

The only one being childish is you

Seriously, you people are trying to defend a whopping 1 million and 500k credit cost, for hundreds upon hundreds of fusion cores, and it didn't even max out the mod in his screen shot, this is after four months of work as he mentioned.

That is insanity, there is no logical justifiable reason that can be defended

Edited February 19, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[Cpl_Facehugger]

 

So...you're complaining about a grind you've personally chosen to undertake?

 

 

Yes? "You choose to do this [because you want to experience the content it provides]" is why people undertake any grind. It in no way refutes the "this grind is too high" argument.

 

Edit: I'm seeing a lot of wrangling about how "you don't need everything."

The question I've gotta ask to that is... Are we playing the same warfarm? This is a loot game. Acquiring all the loot is pretty much the only goal around. There's not much story and what story there is is trickled to us. The gameplay is fun, but it's not 1.2k hours fun on its own. Like, what else is there to do but acquire loot?

 

Also Baro's stuff needs to stop rotating. The "this is a long term goal" would be semi-acceptable if Baro's gear could actually be acquired outside of a two day window. People say Baro's stuff is on a rotation, but we don't know what what rotation is yet, so there's no use relying on it.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger