The Manic, Is A Stage Towards Anti Progression

[Kasarian]

Nobody said "Unkillable".

 

However, when I walk into a large room and my 1200+ Iron Skin is gone in 6 seconds or less... then that just gets ridiculous. If I had been something other than Rhino... how long do you think another frame that doesn't have a bullet shield or invisibility would last under the same conditions? Most frames don't have much more than 600 health+ 600 shields. Another frame woulda been full out dead in the same 6 seconds.

 

What's the point of a tank frame if it isn't very tanky whatsoever?

 

Actually with just Vitality and Redirection (mandatory if soloing in my opinion) most frames will have 600+ health or shields where the higher stat will compensate for the lower with just Red/Vit on rank8 (or will have both stats above 660). So that's that.

 

Also wondering what did you put on your Rhino if it has such squishy Iron Skin and unreliable shields/health...

[Sasquatchias]

Personally I like the Manic, but do feel that right now he is very overloaded and could stand to be toned down some by having a few things taken away from him, though there are certain aspects I feel should be kept the same.

 

Things I want to see him keep - 

CC - Immunity

Crazy Teleportation

High damage

Invisibility

 

Things I want to see him lose - 

Invincibility

Healing when cloaked.

Insta-Death Tackle if you're Solo.

 

Things I want to see added/changed - 

1. Glowing eyes while invisible to let observant players track him. Also when moving and teleporting they leave a red energy streak for cool factor and to give players an idea of where he is.

2. The Tackle/Pin changed so that it deals a percentage of a player's health instead, making it very damaging but not an unavoidable death when solo'ing.

3. Teleportation dodges to avoid incoming fire.

4. Keep healing, but instead have it so that he runs away when low on health and remains visible/stationary when trying to heal. Interrupting the heal will stun him.

[Dawn11715]

What makes me mad is the fact maniac is bladestorm-proof.

Thats really a bad thing. Even if Bladestorm shoudnt kill him, there should be at least some damage or some kind of stunn.

[MumblesMcphatty]

Thats really a bad thing. Even if Bladestorm shoudnt kill him, there should be at least some damage or some kind of stunn.

 

No - its a good thing - he'd be an irrelevant addition if we could still just blast him away with a 4.

[EmptyDevil]

Try much higher level content, that doesnt work.

 

Uh yea it does. I have no problems with a level 65 Manic. You should learn how to fight instead.

Edited March 25, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[inappropriatename5818]

To everyone who "love the manic" and think he's fun and fresh, yes he is. But, so were the new infested when we first played them.   

Do I want to continue playing infested now? Heck no. I don't want to be perma blind, CC'd and burning restores while my frame abilities do no damage or barely CC.   

 

It's fun to challenge yourself sometimes, that's why I loved the event with lvl 150 enemies. But would I want enemies to stay 150 forever?  

 

Manic should spawn once per mission or have a seperate challenge mode where they throw nothing but these cheap broken enemies at all the masochist on these forums that keep complaining the game is too easy thus making it annoying to play for people like me who just want to have fun.   

 

 

When they scale difficulty in this game they scale it for everybody. Vocal minority cries to make the game harder and then the whole community has to suffer for it and the people that whined still won't be happy because they only had to burn 2 revives on solo exterminate on Jupiter.   

 

Before you start the argument "game has difficulty, play lower level planets", trust me, I would, but the way rewards work everyone has to play everything, from easy missions to high up the star chart / void.   

[EmptyDevil]

To everyone who "love the manic" and think he's fun and fresh, yes he is. But, so were the new infested when we first played them.   

Do I want to continue playing infested now? Heck no. I don't want to be perma blind, CC'd and burning restores while my frame abilities do no damage or barely CC.   

 

It's fun to challenge yourself sometimes, that's why I loved the event with lvl 150 enemies. But would I want enemies to stay 150 forever?  

 

Manic should spawn once per mission or have a seperate challenge mode where they throw nothing but these cheap broken enemies at all the masochist on these forums that keep complaining the game is too easy thus making it annoying to play for people like me who just want to have fun.   

 

 

When they scale difficulty in this game they scale it for everybody. Vocal minority cries to make the game harder and then the whole community has to suffer for it and the people that whined still won't be happy because they only had to burn 2 revives on solo exterminate on Jupiter.   

 

Before you start the argument "game has difficulty, play lower level planets", trust me, I would, but the way rewards work everyone has to play everything, from easy missions to high up the star chart / void.   

 

You're doing a lot of whining and it sounds like you hardly encountered a Manic. They DO spawn ONCE per mission on Grineer tiles if alarms are left on too long. I have never seen them show up more than once. The infested aren't even that hard either. Just wait until the Juggernaut shows up.

[SnakeWildlife]

Uh yea it does. I have no problems with a level 65 Manic. You should learn how to fight instead.

 

level 65? You've only just started playing.

 

Things I want to see him keep - 

CC - Immunity

Crazy Teleportation

High damage

Invisibility

 

Things I want to see him lose - 

Invincibility

Healing when cloaked.

Insta-Death Tackle if you're Solo.

 

 

I can agree with this, if the tackle is completely removed, not just Solo.

 

I love that manic does high damage, but Automatic-Death-Grapples need removing, COMPLETELY. Because theyre anti-progressional.

[EmptyDevil]

level 65? You've only just started playing.

 

 

I can agree with this, if the tackle is completely removed, not just Solo.

 

I love that manic does high damage, but Automatic-Death-Grapples need removing, COMPLETELY. Because theyre anti-progressional.

 

Forum account life/date of first post =/= just started playing. I've been playing this game for 1454 hours on a different account.

 

His grapple isn't automatic death. It's like the bleed proc killing people and no his tackle is unique to him. No one wants a fancy butcher.

Edited March 25, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[Wrath_Of_Chrysalis]

level 65? You've only just started playing.

 

And that means...? You can spawn 5X your Mastery Rank level enemies in the Simulacron. I spawned 19 level 85 Manics and had no problem if I KEPT MOVING. And that's your problem.

[JHarlequin]

 His combination of abilities is just too many on one unit at one time.  He would be just a challenge if the abilities worked like they should, but people are going down instantly sometimes seemingly while the manic is invisible and is the only enemy around.

 

 Maybe instead of just straight up removing one of the effects that all manics have, the manics could come to the game in different flavors.  One doesn't go invisible, one doesn't go invulnerable, and the other doesn't heal.  Small details to show the difference and it is still a new enemy that isn't always quite so overloaded but still has variety and power to come after players.

[Wrath_Of_Chrysalis]

 His combination of abilities is just too many on one unit at one time.  He would be just a challenge if the abilities worked like they should, but people are going down instantly sometimes seemingly while the manic is invisible and is the only enemy around.

 

 Maybe instead of just straight up removing one of the effects that all manics have, the manics could come to the game in different flavors.  One doesn't go invisible, one doesn't go invulnerable, and the other doesn't heal.  Small details to show the difference and it is still a new enemy that isn't always quite so overloaded but still has variety and power to come after players.

That...works. I almost love the Manic as is, but this would fix most problems.

[digritz]

This is no different then any other difficult enemy. T4 endless enemies can insta kill too after 40 or 50 minutes. The only main difference is the Manic requires more testing to find the right frame, weapon and mods. I want no part of a game that that only requires proficiency at keyboard strokes.

As far as the Manic being an insta kill enemy, sorry I don't see it. I have been running solo both Loki P and Rhino P in Blackout 3 and only had 3 or 4 insta kills on me. Further more I had little to no problems getting knocked to the ground while being straddled and beat'in twice in a row.

[ShortCat]

I have one question: is this the same comunity that hates nullifiers?

 

I never had much problems with the manic in missions, but the new alert showed how bad that anemy is, especially that take down move!

 

If the design is so good why is everyone crawling on lockers and spaming torid?

[Lightsmith]

I really don't understand people's issue with the Manic. Every time he appears its like a gnat I have to swat away. Not a threat at all.

[Lightsmith]

I have one question: is this the same comunity that hates nullifiers?

 

I never had much problems with the manic in missions, but the new alert showed how bad that anemy is, especially that take down move!

 

If the design is so good why is everyone crawling on lockers and spaming torid?

Um, there is a max 1 manic per mission except this event. I don't think people crawl on lockers when he appears on regular missions.

[elfkinn]

The Manic, is a stage towards ANTI PROGRESSION.

This unit is a stone cold mechanical copy of the Payday 2 Ghost. It's one of the big reasons i quit PayDay 2. Firstly, this almost completely throws SINGLE PLAYER into the trashcan. People who have bad connections or prefer to play alone are being f###ed the hardest (they dont have AI buddies). And secondly, theyre ANTI PROGRESSION. I would understand this kind of enemy in a game like Left 4 Dead where you dont need to level up and you always have teammates, but not here.

 

Why does it kill progression you ask?

Because of the same reason in PayDay2: What if i create the most Tankiest build i can, with the maximum armor, completely minmaxed to the pinnacle, after spending years of playing a game Leveling Up, Earning that Gear, Earning and ranking all the skills and the mods in this case, to be a slow, heavily armored Tank...only to be one-hit KO'd by a skinny weak enemy....and then you just insert an Instant-Kill mechanic that completely ignores and disregards the whole point of a leveling up system and ranking anything and having any kind of armor or shield.

The Instant-Kill or Permanent-Stunlock-Until-Death enemy DOES NOT BELONG IN A GAME WITH  SUCH STEEP PROGRESSION.

Currently, a level 1 Manic can kill a 6 Forma'd level 30 Valkyr with Redirection, Vitality, Vigor, Steel Fiber, and allll the other tanky mods put together. THIS IS WRONG. Its ANTI PROGRESSION and it's ANTI WARFRAME.

 

THOSE KINDS OF GAME MECHANICS DO NOT BELONG HERE.

The Manic is to promote stealth play, if you hack alarms it doesnt spawn and i have survived a level 20 manic with my trinity without using link so its not that instakill, and anti warframe, the thing promotes stealth. I think all of us are forgetting the point of tactical alerts are to draw bugs out and try new things.

Edited April 11, 2015 by elfkinn

[ShortCat]

Um, there is a max 1 manic per mission except this event. I don't think people crawl on lockers when he appears on regular missions.

I know that, thats why I said he is not a problem.

 

Now imagine they spawn frequently in endless Grineer missions. If there is one lvl 60 manic someone will die. But no-one runs high Grineer surv. or def, missions so it is not a problem.

[Twilight053]

No wonder dude. Manic is very effective towards Warframe's Ferrite Armor. That's why you got oneshotted.

[Kontrollo]

The event was a good opportunity to get a bit more familiar with the Manic. Here's how to survive the manic's takedown move every single time:

 

Equip health/shield restores and bind them to a key. You can still use them while downed and the first tick is instant. There's no way you can die that way, unless you're too slow or press the wrong button.

 

 

Also, he can't cancel every ability. You're completely safe in Hydroid's puddle for example. And for some reason he will not touch you while reviving your downed allies.

[Trajhenkhetlive]

As the great Muhammad Ali would say "Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee". Every Tenno should know how important footwork is in combat. For me I haven't really had much of a problem with the maniac. If there is just one you can bring him down with melee easy enough. The only time it gets dicey is that 3rd run for the stratos emblem in the tac mission. Even there the footwork and rolling should see you through. That being said taking him and his extended family- all solo might not be easy for the stratos tac alert but that's an extreme situation.

[WolvenEdge]

From what I can see here, there are some people who are bringing to light a real issue, and some, who have not had the same issue, calling them babies who don't know how to play the game, regardless of other evidence to the contrary. -great community we have here- *clears throat*

 

According to the wiki;

 

• The Manic will only spawn if the level's alarm is raised, and will announce its presence with loud, howling laughter. As its description implies, the Manic is a fast-striking and elusive melee unit, capable of cloaking to close in on foes and having an ability to Stealth Kill unsuspecting players (the player must be facing away from the Manic to have this happen).
• Manics are capable of cloaking for periods of time to close distance across open ground. They seem to move faster while cloaked.
• Manic will regenerate 2% their health reserves per second if left undamaged for 7 seconds as of Update 16.3.
• When dealing tackle attack, Manic will negate some Warframe toggle abilities, such as Limbo's Rift Walk, which can lead to lethal consequences.

• Manics suffer reduced effects from Warframe abilities.
  • Abilities such as Radial Blind that inflict a negative effect on other enemies will not affect the Manic.
    • Particles from abilities will still be applied; do not let this fool you into thinking the Manic is affected.
    • An exception is Mesa's Shooting Gallery, which stuns for its full duration.
    • Such effects have their full effect on the Manic if they come from a Warframe mod, such as Piercing Roar.
  • Abilities that can ragdoll, such as Crush, will not have any affect on the Manic besides damaging it.
    • Pull is an exception: it will ragdoll the Manic, but similar to Stalker's reaction to the ability, it will recover while flying and lose the momentum from the ability.
    • Rhino Stomp is another: The Manic will be ragdolled and trapped in the time-slow for part of the ability's duration, but shortly after being hit will make a breaking-out motion and cease to be affected.
    • Soul Punch works normally and can be used to knock them down repeatedly with very little effort.
    • Tornado is also capable of ragdolling Manics, yet the Manic needs to be uncloaked and is only pulled sometimes.
  • Manics can be damaged but cannot be killed by Warframe abilities (tested with Rhino Stomp, Rhino Charge, Tornado, Dive Bomb, and Shock). If the Manic does not have enough health to absorb the damage of the ability, it takes no damage from it. Note that the same is not true of weapons that can instantly kill it. This may be a bug.
    • Manics can be damaged by Mesas Peacemaker ability
  • Manics are affected by Aura mods that have a detrimental effect.
  • Manics can use Dispel even if the ability does not directly affect it (tested with Iron Skin, Hysteria, and Blessing).
    • As of Hotfix 16.0.4, the dispel effect only occurs before a target has been pounced.
  • Manics can be stunned by parrying them or abilities like Teleport, although the former is very difficult to accomplish without the aid of mods like Parry. However, they cannot be Finished, and will instead take a high damage multiplier.

• Manics can pounce the player onto the ground for heavy damage, leaving the player unable to move. This can occur if the player is facing away from the Manic when it tackles them or is staggered by knockback, with an imperfect chance to happen in either circumstance. There are reports of the player being able to kick the Manic off before it begins slashing; it is currently unclear what triggers this. If successful, the Manic will then slash at the player several times until its victim dies or the Manic is killed or dislodged by the methods mentioned below.
  • The player cannot attack or use Warframe abilities when tackled. Other enemies will also continue to attack the player.
  • The tackle can be triggered even while the player is mid-air, on such occasion, the player is rendered floating along with the Manic.
  • Ragdolled Manics can also trigger a tackle if collided with mid-air.
  • A companion is helpful, though not absolutely necessary in solo missions, as Manics will not necessarily slash a player to death as of Hotfix 16.0.4. A companion/other players will not be attacked by the Manic if it is already on top of a player until they dislodge it.
  • Manics can also tackle Kubrows but not Sentinels (can still kill the latter with jump attacks). Such an attack is near-fatal for the companion as the Manic's tackle attack deals high damage.
  • Teammates can use slam attacks and Warframe abilities to cause knockdown, which will dislodge the Manic from a teammate. Alternatively they can shoot at it until it cloaks. Despite technically being on the ground, Finishers cannot be performed on the Manic when it has tackled a player, possibly due to the risk of hitting the tackled Tenno.

• A Manic's attacks can inflict an extremely deadly Slash Damage proc. Any Warframes without extensive health reserves can easily fall victim to this attack. Keeping Health Restores close at hand is recommended, and those running Rhino should keep Iron Skin active at all times when a Manic is around. Do note that the Manic will dispel Iron Skin if it succeeds in jumping you.

• Manics can be knocked down by weapons with very high slam attack radius, such as the Jat Kittag, and most fist weapons. They will get up at an extremely fast rate, but they are susceptible to ground finishers while in this state. Unlike ragdoll effects inflicted by Warframe abilities, Manics cannot recover mid-flight from slam attacks.

 

 

So, he has at least TWO attacks that have the potential to insta-kill. He has a stealth attack from behind that counts as a stealth kill, and thus likely deals the dreaded Finisher Damage, a pounce that casts Dispell a-la stalker and ignores most attempts at avoiding it, and has no known escape.

Personally, I am an Excalibur player. Yes, he has baseline stats and nothing particularly special yet, but that's kind of the point; I had to work with my mods to MAKE him capable of surviving higher-level combat, and have had to work with my own personal skill to avoid what damage I can. (personally, I'm looking forward to his upcoming update, but that's a subject for another time)

I use what I call the Immortal Cycle. While not rendering you immortal, it certainly helps keep frames that don't have much going for them on survival stats stay up. Rage and Life Strike to counter each other, along with Primed Flow, Vitality, and Quick Thinking. Quick Thinking and Rage are maxed, everything else is pretty darn close... except Life Strike.

For beginners out there; this means I'm using a large amount of energy as a health reserve, I gain energy when I get hurt, and use my channeling attacks to get health back.

Usually my shields, wimpy as they are, don't run out, as I don't like the beeping and sound effect when they go down, so I learned pretty quick how to dodge.

 

That being said, there are two enemies that somehow manage to one-shot me. Stalker, and the Manic. Stalker I have no idea how he does it, but he somehow hitscans me with his Dread before I can get close, and I hit the dirt as if he'd tossed me a freaking nuke. I haven't encountered him since I got Quick Thinking, so I'm hoping that I can take at least one hit so I can get him...

Meanwhile, the Manic is more hit-and-miss. I usually take him out by using slam attacks to throw him and then dashing after to slam him as hard as I can, trying to tear him into bloody shreds as he dashes around the room. Sometimes I end up being the slicer to his cheese... sometimes I end up on the ground with him trying to claw my face off... and completely destroying my entire amalgamaed reserves of life energy within mere seconds. I've had it happen twice... both times I'd sideflipped out of the way the instant I saw it coming, both times I watched him miss, and both times he teleported on top of me before I could get past the ridiculous idle half-second after every dodge he had bowled me over and torn my warframe a lovely new drainpipe while I spammed random buttons looking for a way to get him off... he was only level 15.

Please also note that I was, as usual, playing solo. (None of the randoms ever want to stealth anything, or have any fun at all... rushrushrushrushrush, farmfarmfarmfarmfarmfarm *barf* Why are we even playing the game if we can't have fun with it?)

 

All of you who haven't had this happen, or have somehow managed to survive that, consider yourself lucky, and tell me what kind of crazy mods you're using that allow you to tank his knockdown finisher, please? QwQ I'm not saying 'He killed me! nerfnerfnerfnerfnerf...' No, no way. This was the most fun I've had since I fully leveled my Excalibur the first time. I AM asking that he deal something other than (apparent) finisher damage for his attacks, that way he's a little more forgiving on players who are unfortunate enough to have a build that he bypasses? (I died with my energy reserve still intact. It was like he turned my entire set of mods off, while displaying the radial blind effect no less) Or perhaps check and see exactly what he's bypassing on some people's warframes that he's not supposed to, in which case this would be a bug to squash.

 

Anyway; TL;DR

He insta-killed me a couple times, but I got better and now routinely tear him into fun-sized morsels for my nano-forge back on the ship, but still. That he even HAS instakill abilities is kind of a problem, as this game is supposed to be somewhere between Star Wars, Ninja Gaiden, Iron Man, and Samurai Pizza Cats... not supposed to be Dark Souls.

[low1991]

Insta-kill ... ... 

I'm guessing that will refer to an action or an hit/ attack which does an insanely amount of damage, and not a series of combo.

So that would mean, the manic (lv1 even or any level) can insta-kill you by it's or his jump attack?

Btw, insta-kill by combo's is alright in my view. And shouldn't that be deadly combo and not insta-kill?

Edited April 12, 2015 by low1991

[WolvenEdge]

Insta-kill in my book is an attack or uninteruptable attack string that either directly kills or causes an effect that will cause death very shortly afterward. In this case; his tackle is an insta-kill... for many, apparently. His stealth attack from behind is an insta-kill... sure, never turn your back on an opponent, that's just good manners, but this is kind of ridiculous. Third; them bleed procs. Didn't even get through the shield, and I had my Volt Prime bleed to death... after he didn't even get touched.

Someone brought this up before, but how can you be bleeding if your shields are still intact? Meh.

 

Combos are multiple, interruptible attacks that chain into each other. The key word here is 'interruptible', each consecutive attack can be countered. The combo that leads to the Manic sitting on your chest and clawing your face off is currently not interruptible, because once he lands the hit that staggers you, you're done. One hit, second hit(unblockable, undodgeable) -> he kills you unless the RNG decides to let you go.

Yes, you can block the first one. Yes, you can dodge the first one, but if that hit lands, more often than not you die, no matter how much armor, shields, or what-have-you. Many on this forum are saying they've gotten up with the squishiest frames after this assault... either they are lying, they haven't encountered it, or this curbstomp ability he has that some of us have experienced is a bug that needs ironed out.

[Tesseract7777]

All you have to do to beat the Manic is keep moving around in a tight circle and hitting melee. If you have multiple ones around, stay in a small area, because having little space negates all their main advantages. In fact, you can do that with just one too, it makes things way more difficult for the crazy buggers. 

 

I think they are messily designed, but they aren't that difficult to beat. They just feel like they don't quite belong yet, like they are missing some little thing to make them complete.