Why Are Patches So Small If The Dev Team Is So Big?

[Gammaion]

There are other companies with a larger groups and yet they barely update their own games or even play it.

This^

 

Developing a game on the scale of Warframe takes time. Good things come to those who wait.

[victor_victory]

Yeah another thread where OP act likes he knows what is going on in DE and also act likes he knows how developing game works. Personally i won't comment on things i have absolutely no knowledge about.

[Vykorias]

Well from my personal understanding, DE likes to release big updates all at one time, and uses smaller patches as fillers.

 

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Gale47]

How simple do you think game development is? Just out of curiosity.

[Ded_man]

I'm sure it's like many other fields of development.

Proposals, drafts, creation, < terminate

Back to the drawing board.

Proposals, drafts, creation, test, rework, test, rework, < terminate

Back to the brainstorming conference room.

Proposals, drafts, creation, test, rework, tweak, rework, tweak, tweak, tweak, test,

< implement

The variables can go on and on.

However, just cause the team is large from your perspective. This doesn't mean progress is that much more fast. It improves efficiency and execution but you still have red tape, testing, and approvals to get by.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Ded_man

[Kalenath]

Probably because they're pacing their work, already working on stuff for 16.5, 17, beyond, etc.

Do you honestly expect 1GB+ updates every month?

 

No, they want them every WEEK.

[faustias]

as long as it fixes something, even if I have not experienced those fixed bugs, I appreciate that hotfix.

 

I don't even care if it doesn't fix what I wanted. I just imagine that if that certain unknown bug was not fixed, it will annoy me in the future.

 

One special mention is the missing items upon acquiring from foundry... and I was building Nyx Prime that time. Glad it was fixed immediately before I the warframe is done in the oven.

Edited April 22, 2015 by faustias

[Seb-ZA]

Year of quality remember. I would think this would be the year they would stop pacing there work for later and try oh I don't no dish it out this year maybe? could we be expecting U17 this year?

It's April. Stop behaving like an ungrateful child. Good lord.

 

@Op: How about getting a job in the software industry (or better yet, in the gaming industry) so you can actually understand the processes involved in development and then throw in your 10c?

You have utterly zero knowledge of what goes on within management or on their dev floor; you will get the updates to THEIR game when THEY are damned well ready to release them and not when you want them.

 

I am so sick of the entitled gamer mentality. Urgh.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Kenboushou

[Gale47]

It's April. Stop behaving like an ungrateful child. Good lord.

 

@Op: How about getting a job in the software industry (or better yet, in the gaming industry) so you can actually understand the processes involved in development and then throw in your 10c?

You have utterly zero knowledge of what goes on within management or on their dev floor; you will get the updates to THEIR game when THEY are damned well ready to release them and not when you want them.

 

I am so sick of the entitled gamer mentality. Urgh.

[DeejayPwny]

Which is why the assumption is that they actually have no QC department. So many bugs and problems that crop up with each new major (and some, sub) patches and DE keeps pushing new 'stuff' to 'liven' the game at the expense of cleaner and better updates.

Hate to break it to you, but even the most experienced of QC teams won't find every bughat exists in the code, as many of them won't appear until they hit the live servers. It is a sad, but utterly unavoidable fact about constant development.

[Kaotyke]

I've been reading a whole lot of people lately saying that keep saying DE needs to "stop doing X and work on Y".

 

The problem is, this seems to stem from thinking of DE as a singular entity, like one lonely person, coding everything all by themselves.

 

It's not.

 

There are multiple teams of multiple people working on every facet of the game.

 

Lucy is a brilliant animator. She is not really able to code drop table algorithms.

 

Skree is a brilliant level designer. He is not really able to perform weapon debugging procedures.

 

There's an entire sound team that just makes audio effects for the game. None of them have expressed any computer literacy at all beyond mad dj sound remixing talent.

 

Megan isn't really able to design new multi-layered AI sub-routines.

 

Rebecca isn't really able to smooth out physics engine instabilities.

 

This is just a fistful of people out of the 100+ employees at DE, all of them who are highly unqualified to work on a myriad of projects.

 

Are they downright fantastic at their actual jobs? Yes!

 

Will having them "stop doing" whatever it is they were hired to do, and instead work on w/e the heck YOU think is much more valuable than what they do actually get any progress out of them? Not really.

 

Could they be fired, and replaced with new employees who DO exactly what you want? Well, yes, but that is the swiftest way to shatter company morale, so you'll still see far less progress.

 

So, ultimately, Is there any way, shape, or form, that "stop X to do Y instead" even remotely makes the teeniest tiniest bit of quasi-logic? Not in a trillion years.

 

Yet, people keep saying it. Please don't.

 

It makes you look dumb. It's at least a tad demoralizing to the people at DE that read the forums only to hear that, in your eyes, their job is totally worthless.

 

There's absolutely no positive outcome, at all, whatsoever, from you saying this, except for whatever tiny fractional ego boost you got out of typing it. Honestly, you don't deserve that ego boost, so that's really a negative outcome.

 

Funny enough, as you are an individual, rather than a massive collective of teams of people, you, personally, DO have the option of "stop X and do Y instead". So, stop being a jerk, and be helpful instead.

 

Thanks.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/235599-friendly-reminder/

[.ERO.]

First of all, each patch/hotfix has hours and days of code, coffee, and effort behind it. Second, It is not a cloth syandana, it is the first cloth physics syandana, and that is not just a "hur dur make it move" process like you seem to think it is. The minor reworks and tweaks you want are not minor at all, they are complete revamps that require a total assessment on balance and mechanics, so wanting the teams to "just do a minor change here" is an un-funny joke at best.

 

#babyfirstbeta

[Evanescent]

I have just one thing to say.

 

Lol.

 

Why?

 

1)You act like you know what goes on in DE

2) You act like you know DE's workload distribution and Dev Team Structure

3) You act like Bugs aren't fixed in every week

 

Why some Bugs have been in there for 'years'?

Well because:

 

1)Some Bugs are more complex then others to fix, hence they take time

2)Some Bugs require complete recoding of that section

3)Some Bugs are more important than others

 

Ugh.

Just stop this 'white knight' nonsense please.

If anyone says 'Good job DE!' You lot pounce on him like a pack of Hyenas. Anyone posting anything for DE is immediately a 'white knight' and subject to your contempt. Psh.

 

Grow up. 

[faustias]

Oh yeah, OP.

 

Do you know how hard it is to find that one little bug, or miscalculations

within texts, walls of walls of texts

thousands of lines, and thousands of files

compile it, translate it to something your PC will read

making endless breakpoints where testing and processing pauses

do you really think that just changing one value,

one variable's calculation can solve your preciously wished fix without affecting other codes?

or like what they say, fix a bug, another one pops up.

with all the stress and fatigue in their department, they have to make sure that not one silly mistake goes out on the hotfixes.

 

and that's just the coding like stats and damage output. and distance you should suppose to travel with directional melee or coptering.

 

 

It's the same story as well, or even bigger, on designs. it's not just imagine something and then mold it on your 3DMax or Maya 3D.

Make more molds and strap some chains to make it move.

How would the bones work, how would the grips work?

How much degrees would this neck joint turn without making silly glitches like spinning head

or how to prevent stretching boobs? (glad WF don't have boobs physics...)

How to run like a humanoid and not a bipedal monster, or how MOAs run with chicken legs

How would each and all warframes hold that one gun without clipping?

 

 

...and at the end the other coders or devs will put all those together, compile it again to synchronize in the engine, and work as they wish it is the planned and intended. And then a bug pops up again.


Also, despite professional as they are, and even far better than I was as a computer science student back in college, they get this kind of frustration where they'll be asking themselves:

"I'm already at the test's breakpoint but where the f/ck is that?"

"What the hell happened, I'm sure the code is right."

"The algorithm is right, the values, the variables are correct. Where did this thing go wrong?!"

Surely you also had the feeling of giving up because you can't solve the problem, despite all the confidence you had. Add salt to injury, the solution was actually easy but you're too pressured with the work you overlooked it.

 

...and mind you some devs are just employed for the sake of earning. Some devs don't really play the game. They're just there to work. Some really don't understand what us players really feel about the game. Unless DE explicitly point out that most of them play the game.

Edited April 22, 2015 by faustias

[TheErebus.]

...and at the end the other coders or devs will put all those together, compile it again to synchronize in the engine, and work as they wish it is the planned and intended. And then a bug pops up again.

I always wanted to use this here:

[faustias]

I always wanted to use this here:

I was trying to look for that because that's the point of my post but I was too triggered by OP's... err... is stupidity a banned word? Yeah... that's why I just stopped finding and continue with my rant.

Edited April 22, 2015 by faustias

[Spindle99]

Probably because they're pacing their work, already working on stuff for 16.5, 17, beyond, etc.

Do you honestly expect 1GB+ updates every month?

 

I don't care about how many megabytes it is.

 

I'm saying a) what about variety, when was the last improvement to Archwing or Dojos etc?  and also they may throw hotfixes out but are they something to look forward to or do they do the job they are intended to fulfill in keeping you busy?

 

I could not mention this elephant in the room if you like but does that help the game?  The whole idea with regular hotfixes is to "keep the ravenous beast" busy, if they have started to become a bit boring we should say so right?  Keep in mind that if I think that and made the thread a lot of other people think the same but don't.

 

As I said I like the game and I like the company, which is why I spend money and my time on the game instead of another.  That doesn't mean you can't comment on the patches and whether they are being as good/offering the variety of additions they could be.

 

How many people like Archwing?  how many want to like it?  If it was updated with minor additions and tweaks at least once a month it would be so much better by now, same for Dojos.  They added a poll 6 months ago about what new stuff we wanted for dojos, where is that?

 

I don't wanna win a popularity contest, I want the game to be as good as it can be and i'm offering feedback.

Here is a genuine problem I see with this forum, it's choc full of white knight fanboys (which is cool in a way, it's great you love the game).  The problem with that is they will not tell it like it is, they will have something they aren't that happy with and will say it's the best thing they ever saw.  That's like asking your mom what she thinks of your art "oh that's so amazing, your like a little Michelangelo", then you show it off hoping to sell it and everyone is like, dude that sucks a**.

 

That honestly does not help the devs when a large number of players all bail on the game cause you were "being nice".

 

Again:

 

 

That's 200 people (no it's not DE it's a random google image of 100 people).

 

They keep saying they have dedicated teams for all the stuff, if that is the case why are the teams not putting out updates for their "stuff"?

Edited April 22, 2015 by Spindle99

[PapaFragolino]

They may be small patches but they're released weekly.

 

Now let me ask you a question: are you a cleric or something?

 

[Buzkyl]

The staff have their own priority list of what things are working on and when they are coming out ad even that changes as the situation calls for. Example frost was suppose to be reworked before excalibur but Scott saw the feedback for Excalibur was faar greater than frost so excalibur took priority.

 

 

AW is going to get it's own set of adjustments for the upcoming Golem boss fight and that was said on a Devstream just because it's not being constantly patched that does not mean it's not beong worked on. Your priorities are different from the Devs. Not to mention PvP is another separate entity that's being worked on separately, so just because there are 170 people working on warframe that does not equate to all of them pumping out the same work, too many people on 1 project is just wasting resources.

 

The community polls by Devs are not a signal of the order of things being worked on, they are for when the Devs do go work on said thing they have a decent idea of what people want.

 

 

Somethings can simply be put to be worked on later than other as shown below, that does not mean the Devs are not working on it that means it's not in focus at the moment. AW is going to be getting major focus as the next raid has an AW component.

 

 

This list was taken i believe either abit before  the release of U16, just to strengthen my point

[Tymerc]

Probably because they're pacing their work, already working on stuff for 16.5, 17, beyond, etc.

Do you honestly expect 1GB+ updates every month?

 

This right here.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Tymerc

[(PSN)Sgt_Buttscratch]

200 people, so lets rush all of our ideas out instantly, make uber patch, players will be done with it in week/month? What now?

 

Smaller amounts is easier to manage, debug, then monitor. Remember not a lot of patches on any game are released perfect. They still have to monitor the new changes to see how it affects a lot of different aspects of the game.

 

In all honesty though, DE's team are a lot more active and vocal than most the gaming industry. Especially considering its F2P. 

[[DE]Drew]

If it were that simple to release large amounts of quality content, we would. 


 

[Tymerc]

If it were that simple to release large amounts of quality content, we would. 

-snipped for space-

 

 

I am totally saving that picture.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Tymerc

[Syln]

you know what they say about size hmm hmm ?

[vaugahn]

it's choc full of white knight fanboys

 

When you resort to calling people white knights, that's a good sign you're wrong. Just saying.