The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[HalfDarkShadow]

Where?

 

Err, he might have been referring to different tidbits. But in general its everywhere.

 

From as simple as the "emotes" (to some extent of course), as a few of the emotes express something one way or another.

There's also the Mirage quest which pretty much hits the nail in the coffin and solidifies it. I'll post a few quotes for reference;

(See "Spoiler" for more. I put it there out of respect for anyone who either haven't played the "Hidden Messages" quest yet, or are newcomers~)

 

Now she's out of energy, I'm telling her to go but she's laughing, tearing their heads off as they swarm

I tell her I won't lose her. That I have another ship on its way. She is smiling because she knows I am lying...

Tenno, that was the last of the imprints. Forge this Warframe in honor of these memories.

 

You can argue (in regards to the last quote I felt like mentioning~), can be a bit of a stretch; but it can imply respect. With one of the early devstreams mentioning that we're supposed to feel that the frames we play is us (hence the lack of dialog, beyond some grunts and yells), that we were supposed to feel (emotionally), some sort of reverence to the Tenno who died. But eh, that's just my educated guess. Implications can go both ways. But I digress~

 

 

Anyway back to your question, its pretty much a fact that the Tenno do feel emotions and show expression.

Hell, did you forget Valkyr or something? Her yells, agony, and "rage" (refer to codex) alone should clear that up.

 

 

 

Side note: 

 

Also cephalons seems also to be some kind of Ai or programms yet they can express emotions.

 

Look up some kind of synopsis for the movie "Ex Machina", because that's going into a whole other can-of-worms sort of speak. Though interesting, it might get a bit off topic~

 

(EDIT: Better yet, just look up the trope, "Do Androids Dream?". It's something quite a bit of Sci-fi films like to fiddle with, but point being, trying to answer that question is going somewhat into that realm. Also, you can refer to "Ask A Cephalon"'s description, in which it kind of answers your question in that regard.)

 

But eh, that's Sci-fi for you lol.

Edited June 13, 2015 by HalfDarkShadow

[Mak_Gohae]

Void Space Magic. Makes no difference what happens anymore to size and shape of the warframe.

 

 

How many frames change their shape and size?

 

Mirage become multiple clones.

Hydroid becomes water.

Nekros raises the dead and look like a corpse.

Tenno can teleport, become Ice, Fly, create supernovas, and much more. This is more or less spells that the warframe creates.

 

Her name is Mirage, what makes you think they are clones?

Hydroid surrounds himself with a water-like substance. Remember that when he "turns" into a puddle he can brings others with him. He is not really turning into a puddle he seems to be creating some pocket dimension. Basically what the void is. Where the Towers are.

And no one is being brought back, those a energy-like copies.

Outside powers are not the same as inside stuff.

Who becomes ice, btw? You mean turn other people into ice?

Must it be one or the other? Tenno have enwrgy within, the warframe channels that energy.

 

We are looking for a solution to the lore gap to fully explain how what we have works.

[Morec0]

How many frames change their shape and size?

 

Her name is Mirage, what makes you think they are clones?

Hydroid surrounds himself with a water-like substance. Remember that when he "turns" into a puddle he can brings others with him. He is not really turning into a puddle he seems to be creating some pocket dimension. Basically what the void is. Where the Towers are.

And no one is being brought back, those a energy-like copies.

Outside powers are not the same as inside stuff.

Who becomes ice, btw? You mean turn other people into ice?

 

We are looking for a solution to the lore gap to fully explain how what we have works.

 

I don't see why it matters. The Warframes have long been powerful and mysterious, and I maintain the theory that it's not the Tenno who change their shape but the Warframes who alter them - partially absorbing them into their forms and reshaping them physically (i.e. how the Guyver units work). But energy theory IS also very possible - though "we're glowing orbs" is most CERTAINLY ruled out of the equation by Kaleen's identification of "the ones from the Zariman" as children.

 

Whatever we are, I do think we have a recognizably human form, whether naturally or of our power to project it is unclear - the issue is that form is so bursting with energy that we have to lock it away within a specialized container (the Warframe) to keep it from harming people, such as what happened to Kaleen.

[SilentMobius]

If Ember's codex taught us anything, it's they did Void experiments before the Sentients were around.

I don't think the ember codex said anything about the existence of the war. Any adaption we have are guesses at best.

[Morec0]

I don't think the ember codex said anything about the existence of the war. Any adaption we have are guesses at best.

 

"Didn't say anything about it" is the whole point, I think. You think there would have been SOME talk of a war - especially from these military-minded people - if it was going on, especially if military ships were in question. But maybe not, without a time stamp it's impossible to tell.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

I don't have the time to read through all 71 pages of this thread, but I had remembered a made a reply in an older thread, and thought that it may be relevant to, and also stir, discussion here:

 

 

The bleeding proc and animation certainly gives homage to the thought we are, at the very least, partially made of flesh, or a synthetic flesh, thechnocyte flesh.

The references that we are creatures within suits throughout several ingame dialogues tells me that the suit is not a direct part of our bodies.
To quote Vor, "We've been wrong all this time. Tenno do not control the Warframe's divine energy. The Tenno ARE that energy. Each Warframe you control is merely a glass shaping your furious light." "Soon the worm will be in your spine and I will control this Warframe of yours... I will purge your doting mother and bring you home."

A reference to a spine is quite specific, though it is highly possible the spine does not refer to flesh, it seems unlikely it refers to the suit itself, considering the Ascaris has been burrowing for some time. Because of this, I find it confirmed we have a spine. There is no other reason to assume otherwise, especially considering Vor said we are the eneregy, and the suit our tool to augment, but before he mentioned our flesh.

Unless Vor had forgotten, we are energy, not flesh. Because of the order he made these quotes in, we must be a mix. We do not use the suits to create and hold the energy, we use it to control it like chi, from our bodies, our flesh.
The suits are not flesh, not our flesh, should they be technocyte flesh, we seem to have a very good control on the appearance of this unpredictable material.
No, these suits were crafted with earthen materials.

Rubedo, a crystalline ore that gives off a radiant energy. This is used in the helmets and chassis of Warframes. Its use in weaponry suggests it's a powersource, for perhaps the propulsion system of weapons, a means of providing extra damage, but the use in a Warframe would be unclear. Does it produce our shields, or does it help to channel our energy?

Morphics, a component used in our chassis and systems, the parts of our Warframe that stretch when we move and fight, is a amorphic solid, of possibly Orokin technology, the creators of the Tenno suits. Red flags fly up all around.

Salvage, a filler metal, used highly from the destroyed ships during the Sentient-Orokin war perhaps? Their desperation, a recollection of lost war materials?

Polymer Bundles are used as well, hard thermoplastic materials, materials that become moldable at high temperatures. How hot would a lot of condensed energy get?

Ferrite is pretty self explanatory. Used for armor.

Plastids, a nanite flesh. This brings about a small bit of confusion on how these would be incorporated. Our bodies may very well be morphed, aND these could be used to regulate irregularities. Otherwise, perhaps they are a way for us to control aspects of our powers? We control these nanites, using energy to direct them?

Neural Sensors, a way for Warframes to control aspects of their suits they have no prior way to control, such as the nanite flesh. Considering these are a neural linkage device, that is placed within our helmets, we are provided the means to assume the Tenno have a brain, or a central processing system, within the head.

Neurodes, a biotech sensor organ, is generally placed within alternate helmets, implying the default helmets are crafted for maximum efficiency, while the others need help in making function without hinderance. The use in Chroma's blueprints suggests his effigy ability, the pelt, is controlled with these.

Control Modules, the processing unit for Warframe systems, emphasizing that it is a suit.

Oxium, a lightweight material that allows Zephyr to glide through the air. Chroma's use is unobvious, though my theory would be the pelt.

Circuits, electrical components. No further explanation really needed here.

I can not make a logical connection with Nano Spores and Chroma, though they are connected.

Argon crystals get involved, though their properties are largely unknown.

Gallium, a possible alternate to Morphics/Plastids. A soft metal.
---

Those are my theories dumped quickly.

[vaugahn]

In some way I disagree with the statement that energy cannot 'feel'.

 

Our memories and feelings - nervous signals, engrams, emotions - are a mixture of a finely turned, electrical engine. Our neural energy sits in special patters, denoting how we experiance things, how we remember our parents and the way we react to danger. Instinct, primal urges, genetic memory, are all part of this process. Without the nervous energy flowing through our bodies, we would all be sacks of meat.

 

Even the brainless Starfish is alive with nervous energy, firing and controlling arms and pushing it along its evolutionary path.

 

If you really think about it, energy is what makes us the thinking, concious creatures we are today. What if that energy could be detached and placed in other biological shells? The new Yin/Yang frame is not two tenno after all. It is one warframe controlled by the same Tenno. Little microjumps to two bodies perhaps? It's hard to tell at this early stage, but it makes sense.

 

The energy in our bodies isn't exactly the kind of energy that makes sense in the context of a intangible being. Without the immensely complex biological circuit of our nervous system generating and guiding those electrochemical impulses, they wouldn't mean anything. The physical portion of the brain is actually far more important than the electrical currents it guides, the energy part is just an electrochemical signal between neurons and doesn't contain any "thought". 

 

Of course, it's possible the tenno use some other method of switching from body to body. I think it's a physical process, but the imprint of a mind on the void influencing various shells is one of many other possibilites. 

[Tikka_Qrow]

I don't like the Energy theory. i'm not reading 70+ pages either so i'm sure this has been mentioned, but if not, here it is.

 

Remember the '09 movie Surrogates? Where robotic bodies were "operated" by humans from the safety of their homes and that they were interchangeable. Ordis mentions cryptic stuff about cephalons and ships and tenno is the operator.

I'm wondering if the Operator in Warframe operates robotic bodies from the safety of the Orbiter remotely like in this film?

 

My second theory is a little bit more like what's seen in the Anime Ghost in the Shell in which everyone has their brains placed in cases and can even swap bodies as needed. I remember the 1st episode i watched everyone thought some senator was murdered by a hooker when in actuality he swapped brains with the hooker so he could, uh, see himself and was in turn kidnapped by Americans. Ordis constantly says "Operator, that warframe 'suits' you. ha. ha." a lot

Just thinking perhaps the Tenno Operators in WF switch their brains between bodies?

Edited June 13, 2015 by ChikTikka

[-InV-igo95862]

Err, he might have been referring to different tidbits. But in general its everywhere.

 

From as simple as the "emotes" (to some extent of course), as a few of the emotes express something one way or another.

There's also the Mirage quest which pretty much hits the nail in the coffin and solidifies it. I'll post a few quotes for reference;

(See "Spoiler" for more. I put it there out of respect for anyone who either haven't played the "Hidden Messages" quest yet, or are newcomers~)

 

Now she's out of energy, I'm telling her to go but she's laughing, tearing their heads off as they swarm

I tell her I won't lose her. That I have another ship on its way. She is smiling because she knows I am lying...

Tenno, that was the last of the imprints. Forge this Warframe in honor of these memories.

 

You can argue (in regards to the last quote I felt like mentioning~), can be a bit of a stretch; but it can imply respect. With one of the early devstreams mentioning that we're supposed to feel that the frames we play is us (hence the lack of dialog, beyond some grunts and yells), that we were supposed to feel (emotionally), some sort of reverence to the Tenno who died. But eh, that's just my educated guess. Implications can go both ways. But I digress~

 

 

That was Mirage warframe without Tenno. Like in Rhino prime codex. Warframes were Orokin experiments with technocryte. They behaive like a beast (rhino) are mentally unstable (mirage) on their own without Tenno control.

[SoIaris]

Holy crap this is a 70 page discussion, just choose an answer already

[Mak_Gohae]

I don't see why it matters. The Warframes have long been powerful and mysterious, and I maintain the theory that it's not the Tenno who change their shape but the Warframes who alter them - partially absorbing them into their forms and reshaping them physically (i.e. how the Guyver units work). But energy theory IS also very possible - though "we're glowing orbs" is most CERTAINLY ruled out of the equation by Kaleen's identification of "the ones from the Zariman" as children.

 

Whatever we are, I do think we have a recognizably human form, whether naturally or of our power to project it is unclear - the issue is that form is so bursting with energy that we have to lock it away within a specialized container (the Warframe) to keep it from harming people, such as what happened to Kaleen.

 

We still dont know what the Zeriman children are. There no clear indication that those kids are Tenno or something else.

[arch111]

Protoss Archons are the only good example to go by here I think.

But they, unlike Tenno, are alien to begin with.

Do we want to be energy though?

[WolvenEdge]

Stopped reading the wall there.

 

No, the lore of Dark Sector concept is 4/10 canon with Warframe. Grineer, Jackal, Lisets, Excalibur, those were in the concept. Final product Dark Sector had zombies and a glaive. About the proto skins::::::::::: easter eggs! I don't know how many times I've said it, but I'm really getting tired of it.

 

 

Again; easter eggs do not come with their own lore and are not integrated seamlessly into the world that they come with, they are MADE to stand out. If they fit into the lore of their game, they are a homage, not an easter egg, and likely have something to do with the story of the game, or mark a linkage between the two. In this case, the game clearly states that the proto skins are historically relevant, and DE did not specify the lore Dark Sector (4/10 as you quote) as only applying to the scrapped concept art, which had so little in it as far as lore as to be irrelevant anyway. I find it to be quite logical to say that they were referring to the game, Dark Sector (especially as they said that they didn't fully own the rights to Dark Sector at the time, and had to get them back to make the proto skins... thus why WarFrame isn't called Dark Sector Online or something. Yes, they directly said that), and on top of that, the proto-skin is from the Dark Sector with the Glaive and Infested, else Proto-Excalibur would look like the Hayden from the scrapped concept art.

 

I also said;

 

My take on the lore is based on the Infested from both WarFrame and Dark Sector,

 

BOTH WARFRAME AND DARK SECTOR

 

In case you weren't looking, I backed up every single reference to Dark Sector with data from WarFrame, both visual elements and what few scraps of lore we are given. If you stopped looking at what I had to say because I disagree with you on one single point, and even pointed out a way in the intro to my post for you to examine my logic without even considering Dark Sector by ignoring many of the parts not having to do with it, then you are not looking for an actual debate, discussion, or even looking to compare notes.

 

This has become a lore discussion page (regardless of original intent), where people compare their viewpoints and attempt to put together a picture of what we, as Tenno, are. If you aren't willing to be a part of that discussion, and only continue spouting the same flawed logic (flawed because you aren't even looking at alternate points of view seriously) regardless of evidence to the contrary, then I must ask that you either back up your claims with information from the game(s) that you reference or leave the discussion.

 

Eh, but that's not the same as how some people are acting like we are energy orbs inside the Warframe.

 

I have never said that, nor have any I have yet seen in this thread. As for energy being an 'orb', what form does contained energy naturally take before any influence is on it? An orb. What does consciousness do to energy? Shape it, in the WarFrame universe... at least insofar as Vor is to be believed and the WarFrame/Infested powers to be thought of. We're practically told that the Oro are off-guard, recently ripped from their body. They disappear after a time... as if they just grow legs and walk off. :\ If you were energy, and suddenly thrown out of a body torn (or irradiated, or perforated, or burned... or whatever, take your pick) beyond usability, would you be on your feet and ready to go that split second? No. You'd be out of your element and forced to adjust for a bit. It's like putting on roller blades and trying to walk... then you'd catch your stride and start skating away... or rather, regain a frequency/form you could actually use and make yourself scarce.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is this; energy being does not equal one shape, as has been pointed out before. Form for energy, even sentient energy, is nowhere near stable and is influenced not only by normal forces, but also by its own consciousness.

 

TL;DR pay attention and actually read the whole post as intended before doing a -censored- pirriouette off the handle into the fire and burning everyone's toast, and try to keep an open mind. Everyone could be wrong for all we know. And energy isn't stuck being in an orb... especially not if it can form itself into any shape it wishes when it is stable enough to do so.

[(PSN)Lun-Sei]

WHY IS THIS TOPIC STILL GOING ON?????

Geeze, a lot of npcs clearly mention that there is flesh under the Warframe. That there is a person inside of it. So why does this thread count 70+ pages? Lol, do you even read what the npcs say?

[arch111]

Some NPC's allso mentions energy, there are cryptic lines spoken from several in the game.

And Steve.refuses to tell us.

[(PSN)Lun-Sei]

Some NPC's allso mentions energy, there are cryptic lines spoken from several in the game.

And Steve.refuses to tell us.

 

 

I heard no npc mentioning energy.

 

But I heard the Jackal mentioning that the tenno is organic.

I heard Vor's friend (what was his name?) saying that the tenno can bleed.

I heard another boss wondering what flesh is hidden inside that Warframe.

I heard Vor mentioning he needs the tenno's dna.

 

What more proof do you need - to see them unmasked? It's 100% evident that there's a person inside the Warframe.

[Morec0]

We still dont know what the Zeriman children are. There no clear indication that those kids are Tenno or something else.

 

This is true, but as I've said I feel the evidence provided by the fact they 1) were exposed to the Void, as the Tenno did (Excal Prime Codex), and 2) were seemingly very different creatures from the beast in the Rhino Prime Codex (as the narrator had no idea the Zariman had even returned, despite working on "countless" of the creatures) is strong evidence to support the idea they are.

[SilverBones]

I heard no npc mentioning energy.

It's 100% evident that there's a person inside the Warframe.

 

Vor calls us energy, and although some people say it's obviously a metaphor, you could argue that saying that we have a second skin is just as metaphorical. What people are not looking at is the context in which it is said. Vor may well be using his religious zealotry to describe energy engrams channeled through a biological construct in the only way he can.

 

It's not evident, and thats the reason for the discussion.

 

The energy in our bodies isn't exactly the kind of energy that makes sense in the context of a intangible being. Without the immensely complex biological circuit of our nervous system generating and guiding those electrochemical impulses, they wouldn't mean anything. The physical portion of the brain is actually far more important than the electrical currents it guides, the energy part is just an electrochemical signal between neurons and doesn't contain any "thought". 

 

Of course, it's possible the tenno use some other method of switching from body to body. I think it's a physical process, but the imprint of a mind on the void influencing various shells is one of many other possibilites. 

 

Also the way the human 'mind' is held in those electronic singals in the brain is not yet fully understood. We (as in humans in the 21st century) have only just grasped how to render and copy the brain of a much less developed species; namely a millimeter-long worm with only 302 neurons in it's body. (http://www.iflscience.com/technology/worms-mind-robot-body).

 

It is theorized that within our lifetimes we may be able to copy the human mind into a digital format. That alone is a scary concept. Now imagine technology thousands of years in advance of our own. The idea of the human mind being transplanted into a biological construct that bleeds, dies, heals, murders, jumps, breaks and starves of oxygen is not so crazy a thought, considering we are most of the way of being able to biologically 'print' new organs.

 

If you guys haven't done so yet, I highly suggest reading a tabletop RPG setting (if you are into that kind of thing) called Eclipse Phase. Tenno Transhumanism would make a hell of a lot more sense if the void somehow turned the Tenno conciousness into self-sustaining patterns of energy that can transplant themselves into hollow constructs, hell even other biological beings capable of holding their power.

[sappinmahsentry]

That was Mirage warframe without Tenno. Like in Rhino prime codex. Warframes were Orokin experiments with technocryte. They behaive like a beast (rhino) are mentally unstable (mirage) on their own without Tenno control.

Except it's the other way around, Warframes are non sentient objects that are basically dead weight without a Tenno, Tenno are the ones that act like beasts and can't control their powers without a Warframe. Also, this type of acting for Mirage out of all frames is actually believable.

Why? Because:

1. She's a freakin' Harlequin.

and 2. Judging by how her warframe is formed (it has wrinkles almost everywhere), she's a war veteran.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

-snip-

 

I have never said that,

I never said you  did.

 

The easter egg thing I explained at least 5 times throughout thread, and I'm not looking for one of my quotes about it.

[Cloud]

omg this topic was made in 25 april. We had a long enough talk here. 

[Morec0]

omg this topic was made in 25 april. We had a long enough talk here. 

 

This IS the hottest topic when it comes to Warframe lore discussion. Sadly it's also the least touched upon.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

omg this topic was made in 25 april. We had a long enough talk here. 

We can never talk long enough about this!

[SilverBones]

I think a topic title change may be needed though.

 

I think at this point we can say for sure the theory is not busted, but very much in question.

 

omg this topic was made in 25 april. We had a long enough talk here. 

 

Not even close. This was a point of discussion back in early 2013.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/13470-tenno-transhumanism-%E2%80%93-a-theory-based-on-in-game-facts/

 

Notably, this was way, WAY before Vor even got a rework, let alone became the Void-Energy butthat we all know and love.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I think a topic title change may be needed though.

 

I think at this point we can say for sure the theory is not busted, but very much in question.

 

If you have a new title in mind, I'd like to hear it :P