The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

A theory that gets tossed around a lot is the Exarch theory, where the frame influences the personality of the tenno wearing it, based off previous or the original tenno of that type. This also fits into the general comparison with a morph, as I recall different morphs having different effects on the personality of whoever's in it. 

But the fact that we can have any animation kind of (emphasis on 'kind of') kills that idea.

[Blakrana]

 

A theory that gets tossed around a lot is the Exarch theory, where the frame influences the personality of the tenno wearing it, based off previous or the original tenno of that type. This also fits into the general comparison with a morph, as I recall different morphs having different effects on the personality of whoever's in it. 

 

Yeah, seen it a fair few times. Personal analogy is generally similar, albeit using masks as the analogy. It's a viable (and intriguing) possibility when looking at the culture aspect.

 

Does make one wonder where a Tenno and Warframe...diverge any more though. Even then, that's kind of part of what makes the whole transhuman element so fun to explore.

 

But the fact that we can have any animation kind of (emphasis on 'kind of') kills that idea.

 

I'd argue it's just an exercise of will, really. The Tenno doesn't 'gel' well with the inherent nature of said frame's traits, and so imposes ones they do like. Certainly something one doesn't do lightly (considering platinum a stand in to represent the 'effort' involved in a narrative, not mechanical, sense).

 

Whilst I've not played Eclipse Phase (or indeed any Role-play), I think you could resist your current Morph's 'tendencies' if it was too 'against type' for the inhabiting Ego (undesirable bodies being possible after losing the last one/Ego Casting). Similar thing...unless I'm mistaken in which case never mind.

[PookieNumnums]

In Eclipse Phase, you could reside as a disembodied program, or take the form of a drone with no biological parts whatsoever. The digitized personality was no different than software, just highly advanced and complex. Perhaps that is the huge leap that the Orokin could not explain. Energy capable of holding thoughts, emotions and states without the need of physical markers.

I think the infested technocyte are a genetic legacy that uses a similar foundation, but are functionally different than the biological ingredients to the Warframes. Bear in mind that the Warframes came into being after the Infested had failed as a weapon against the Sentients.

Granted, the Warframes were weapons of desperation, but I highly doubt they would try to use the same infested genetics when it already failed. A variations perhaps or something functionally immune to the infestation as it is today? Who knows?

Metaphors aside, it makes sense that the Tenno were somehow not bound to a physical form. Be it through the transplant of some physical device or by energy jumping from body to body, nothing about Transhuman Tenno goes against what we see in game or is established thus far.

Are the Tenno energy? Debatable. Personally I think so, but not in the sense that they are just disembodied. I am thinking more along the lines of something new and twisted. Demons of the Void indeed.

Are they human as we know humanity to be now? No. I think it’s safe to say that the time of humanity is long since gone in the Warframe World.

Perhaps the tcyte is something similar to the primordial jelly from infini

It just needed the right life forms to evolve otherwise it tries to consume

[Morec0]

But the fact that we can have any animation kind of (emphasis on 'kind of') kills that idea.

 

But we can't have any animation RIGHT OFF THE BAT, it takes something else (as the game determines, Platinum) to allow them to do that. Whatever Platinum truly is in Warframe Lore is uncertain, and what it can do... But, personally, I'm with this theory, but with the belief that at the same time while the Warframe's personality is being imposed onto the Tenno, the Tenno's personality is being imposed onto the Warframe - a mix-match of Tenno and Frame.

 

So, logically if a Tenno has a certain amount of exposure to one frame - let's say, Ash - the mannerisms of that frame that have been connected to the Tenno COULD leak over into others - leading to facepalming Rhinos and Mag's.

[arch111]

This discussion from last year about how Tenno relate to the warframe is really entertaining.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/310156-changing-warframes-in-game-should-de-show-us-how-its-done/

[SilverBones]

But we can't have any animation RIGHT OFF THE BAT, it takes something else (as the game determines, Platinum) to allow them to do that. Whatever Platinum truly is in Warframe Lore is uncertain, and what it can do... But, personally, I'm with this theory, but with the belief that at the same time while the Warframe's personality is being imposed onto the Tenno, the Tenno's personality is being imposed onto the Warframe - a mix-match of Tenno and Frame.

 

So, logically if a Tenno has a certain amount of exposure to one frame - let's say, Ash - the mannerisms of that frame that have been connected to the Tenno COULD leak over into others - leading to facepalming Rhinos and Mag's.

 

You could also represent this argument in Affinity. The more time you spend in the warframe, the more in tune you are with it's power. Applying a Forma upsets this balance and the Tenno has to 'resync' with the Warframe in an attempt to bring it back to it's full capacity.

 

Shifting stances are a nice, lore-friendly addition that also lets the developers earn some extra plat. It just seems to work out.

[arch111]

I had this warframe/Tenno symbiotic relationship theory last year.

It went like this:

**

The tenno enter the Warframe Armory.

Mechanical arms lock the body into place, machines and lights coming alive in the dim underbelly of the Liset.

"Welcome Operator. Please select the desired warframe."

The onboard complement of crafted warframes shimmers in the air for a moment.

The tenno highlights the Frost Prime.

"Excellent choice Operator. Refitting commencing. Please stand by. This might... sting a little. Apologies."

Agony begin to rip through the tenno as Trinitys systems are removed, and continue as the chassi is broken up, part by part, swallowed be the warframe stasis chambers.

But even as the pain become a fire, the Frost Prime systems are fitted into place, and with it the balm of sweet surrender, being born again.

As the parts change, the Trinity imprint fades into oblivion. Steely cold power takes its place, a blizzard of shards, of control, of quiet fury.

The pain is gone, a dim afterthought as he step out of the Armory.

"Refitting complete, Operator. All systems are ready * for dismembering *

for the next mission. The others are waiting."

***

Two parts, the pilot and warframe.

[vaugahn]

Yeah, seen it a fair few times. Personal analogy is generally similar, albeit using masks as the analogy. It's a viable (and intriguing) possibility when looking at the culture aspect.

 

Does make one wonder where a Tenno and Warframe...diverge any more though. Even then, that's kind of part of what makes the whole transhuman element so fun to explore.

 

I'd argue it's just an exercise of will, really. The Tenno doesn't 'gel' well with the inherent nature of said frame's traits, and so imposes ones they do like. Certainly something one doesn't do lightly (considering platinum a stand in to represent the 'effort' involved in a narrative, not mechanical, sense).

 

Whilst I've not played Eclipse Phase (or indeed any Role-play), I think you could resist your current Morph's 'tendencies' if it was too 'against type' for the inhabiting Ego (undesirable bodies being possible after losing the last one/Ego Casting). Similar thing...unless I'm mistaken in which case never mind.

 

Another thing to consider would be how often tenno switch frames in-universe. Obviously we can switch all the time, but that seems like it's partially a game mechanic.

 

IRL, a fighter pilot could go fly a helicopter or a bomber or a close air support jet, but that's the kind of change that only happens once or twice in a career. If a tenno has trained for his entire life in a Volt frame, changing to a Vauban would probably be a big deal. It's possible some tenno never swap frames and focus their entire lives on mastering a single one, while others choose to swap often.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Whatever Platinum truly is in Warframe Lore is uncertain, and what it can do...

A rare metal we use as currency? I don't know lol, I'm a bit buzzed right now ;)

[Morec0]

You could also represent this argument in Affinity. The more time you spend in the warframe, the more in tune you are with it's power. Applying a Forma upsets this balance and the Tenno has to 'resync' with the Warframe in an attempt to bring it back to it's full capacity.

 

Shifting stances are a nice, lore-friendly addition that also lets the developers earn some extra plat. It just seems to work out.

 

This is how I see affinity as well, yes.

 

 

A rare metal we use as currency? I don't know lol, I'm a bit buzzed right now ;)

 

Yeah, that is the simplest answer. Not sure why I didn't think of it. Of course, that still wouldn't explain the issue of buying stance in the first place from either side of the argument.

 

Ain't alcohol grand?

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

Yeah, that is the simplest answer. Not sure why I didn't think of it. Of course, that still wouldn't explain the issue of buying stance in the first place from either side of the argument.

 

Ain't alcohol grand?

Gameplay mechanics. One of those times there really just is no loreified reason for its existence.

 

 

'Tis.

[Urlan]

I figure Platinum is just the rarest metal in our solar system so space merchants use it as elite currency was the explantion for platinum. The animations could be explained by memory recordings or some kind of linking chip if we are trying to tie the animations to the hypothesis of warframe/Tenno imprinting.

[Marthrym]

Another thing to consider would be how often tenno switch frames in-universe. Obviously we can switch all the time, but that seems like it's partially a game mechanic.

 

IRL, a fighter pilot could go fly a helicopter or a bomber or a close air support jet, but that's the kind of change that only happens once or twice in a career. If a tenno has trained for his entire life in a Volt frame, changing to a Vauban would probably be a big deal. It's possible some tenno never swap frames and focus their entire lives on mastering a single one, while others choose to swap often.

Except the "Tenno are energy" theory also has an answer for that caveat : the experience, the knowledge come from the frames themselves. Each frame had an original owner. That owner left a mark, an "imprint" that allows any Tenno that has a copy to delve into this knowledge of the frame's intricate mechanics, which eliminates a huge chunk of the time needed to aquire said experience, hence the ability to switch whenever we feel like it without constraint, and the fact that after using a forma we lose that experience but still retain the knowledge of how to use the frames. The frame already has it all for us. This would also show how advanced the Tenno really are, not just because of shiny proxy bodies and magical powers, but because they can share so much more, learn from each others, strenghten each others, etc. Of course we can have our favourites (I have mine lol).

 

Or it's just a game mechanic yeah, like many other aspects of the game most probably are, while we wrack our brains making super complicated explanations and theories.^^

 

Personally I do believe in the "Tenno are energy" theory. Which doesn't mean I don't believe in other theories too though!

 

EDIT : I realize this might have been said (typed?) maaany times already... so hum... sorry.^^'

Edited June 15, 2015 by Marthrym

[SilentMobius]

Except the "Tenno are energy" theory also has an answer for that caveat : the experience, the knowledge come from the frames themselves. Each frame had an original owner. That owner left a mark...

 

That notion is independent of any notion of Tenno-as-energy. They can be quite definitely physical, organic and still gain skills, muscle memory, etc from the techno-organic Warframes.

[Ishki88]

Saryn is from Brazil, but stays in the Bronx

Nyx is from Cali

Chroma is from Brooklyn

 

And Excal Prime is a Rapper from the 80s

 

I don't know what the hell you'll are talking about.

 

DE said they want us to be the Warframe, so that's what I'm sticking to

 

Plus there is female energy and male energy....facts because a Tree told me 

[Morec0]

Gameplay mechanics. One of those times there really just is no loreified reason for its existence.

 

 

'Tis.

 

Aye, but with gameplay mechanics as the "explanation" it confirms neither of our stances on the matter.

[BlitzAceRush]

I've always thought of us as having a physical form, but obviously it being charged with void energy and who knows what else making us more than what we once were. 

If changing Warframes really is what we do as opposed to just being purely for gameplay reasons, I still feel we are physical under the frames, but then how do we fit into all of them?

 

My opinion is that we're like Alex Mercer from the Prototype games, able to manipulate our DNA and alter our shape/gender to allow us to wield all of the frames we acquire. Now, whether that's down to the Technocyte virus, the fact that we've been changed by the void, having been experimented on to be able to use Warframes or all of the above, I'm not sure. 

I do also feel like Alex, we do have our default form, who we believe we still are (more of a this if YOUR character kind of deal) but that's how I feel we wield all of the frames.

 

As for why we seem to act very much like whatever frame we're currently occupying but also can act like another frame (By using their animations no matter the frame we're in.) Could be the same thing with Alex, he gains a little of the people he takes from, perhaps we gain a little of original user of the frames we use, explaining why we can display their mannerisms but also still not, as we're still US underneath. 

 

Though, the energy theory is still very plausible as well I mean a physical mass able to change form could work the same for an energy mass entering a hollow body. Bleeding could be the Warframe, not us and as for storing energy in a cryopod, it could be more about being in a Warframe as opposed to storing us. If we were energy, perhaps we 'degrade' if outside a body for too long, and as the Watframe needs to be put into stasis, then we would as well, as being left dormant outside of one for so long could be dangerous to us.

 

To conclude, that's my theory, but we don't really know, I've read some really good ones in this thread, it really could be anything. I kind of like that, the air of mystery, we could be so many things under our Warframes, void twisted, clones, energy, DNA altering super humans, the list goes on.

Though I really hope DE will give us an answer one day, not knowing keeps any narrative exciting, but never knowing would sure be a shame as part of the fun for me is as every new event and update comes along, every time I'm asked to stop this person or help this one, am told of the 'old war' or visit the void, I wonder.

"Just who were we...?"  

One day I'd like to start asking.

"Now what will be become?"  

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Except the "Tenno are energy" theory also has an answer for that caveat : the experience, the knowledge come from the frames themselves. Each frame had an original owner. That owner left a mark, an "imprint" that allows any Tenno that has a copy to delve into this knowledge of the frame's intricate mechanics, which eliminates a huge chunk of the time needed to aquire said experience, hence the ability to switch whenever we feel like it without constraint, and the fact that after using a forma we lose that experience but still retain the knowledge of how to use the frames. 

Like a Nanosuit! The original wearer's memories and such are stored in the suits databanks... Or however that works. Every week, frames become more and more like Nanosuits xD

 

 

 

 

 

And Excal Prime is a Rapper from the 80s

 

"Ice, ice, baby."

[arch111]

Maby a warframe can be "taught" to be Sentient from absorbing the many wearers memories and collective emotions and personas and storing them in it's own neural databanks, growing as a lifeform.

That is how computers learn. Then at some point it looks around and asks;

"Who am I?"

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Maby a warframe can be "taught" to be Sentient from absorbing the many wearers memories and collective emotions and personas and storing them in it's own neural databanks, growing as a lifeform.

That is how computers learn. Then at some point it looks around and asks;

"Who am I?"

Then the Geth Sentients rebel against the Forerunners Orokin which starts the battle of Yavin Old War.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

So I watched Chronicles of Rid$&*^ last night, and that chick from his visions called him 'divine energy' or something like that, but he's clearly human, and physical... Then he used force repulse. Just some fuel food for the fire thought.

[Invidia21]

Let us examine the nature of the Tenno by using a small sentence that is jam packed with details.

Ordis: "If I may say, Operator, your chosen warframe..suits you! Ha. Ha."

Let's break that tidbit down for you people that don't understand logic and reasoning. 

1) There is only one Tenno on this ship.
What you have to read in between the lines here is majorly important because most of you here that are still against the energy/ghost theory don't quite understand the significance of it.  By saying that you chose a warframe means there is a single individual at that very moment (only you inside the liset from what we can see for those of you that think theres more than one tenno up in that tiny ship.) there choosing from a variety of warframes.  That itself acknowledges there are multiple for you to choose from and wear/equip.  So with that string of thought we can speculate you are the sole occupant of the liset from a few points (this is for the two tenno one ship crowd out there). 

A) There wouldn't be enough space for more than one tenno in the liset (We should call someone about the fire safety hazard if that isn't the case).
B) There is also not a second extract/drop point on the ship nor does Ordis ever talk about the other squatter in my ship ever if there is one.
C) Theres no need for another Tenno to stay behind inside the ship ever, considering theres an AI onboard that runs itself.
D) If the other gender Tenno actually does exist and just so happens to never be on the ship when I am, where the hell is she/he and why does she/he never put down some resources for the gear that we share and more importantly why the hell am I the only one ever putting the potatoes into the oven?

So we can safely rule that there is no more than one occupant on the liset and that brings us to the second half of that sentence and my second point.

2) All that gear is yours and yours alone.
The second half of that original sentence "...suits you! Ha. Ha." is meant as a pun along with the entirety of the sentence, a joke, a sad and poorly written/spoken one but thats where the essence lies.  By that pun towards the Operator it allows us to extract the fact we the tenno, wear the warframes being true and they themselves are not us (you wear a jacket, but you aren't a jacket when you wear it, you can however argue whether or not it is a part of you while you are wearing it.)  If point #1 is true then that means you are the sole owner of all the warframes housed in the liset, both male and female warframes, that you wear.  At this point we can then determine a few facts that lead to the nature of the Tenno.

A) We can wear both male and female warframes.
B) We can assume the warframes themselves dictate the type of abilities we use base on the fact that you simply can't use the ability of other warframes when you are wearing just the one.

C) B proves that whatever the Tenno may be, can only exhibit certain abilities when wearing certain warframes and when only wearing a warframe (otherwise we wouldn't need to swap, it would just be the one warframe to rule them all).

 

That leaves us with a few conclusions: 
We are one of the following, though not all three are mutually exclusive, it is highly unlikely we are more than one of the following cases.

A) We can some how cross-dress into different warframes that all vary in size, shape, form and gender with their gender identifiers also varying in size, shape and form. (read bewbs, hips, body structure, etc.)
B) We are shapeshifters that don't really care about gender (possibly genderless) and the warframes are just designed the way they are based on original design/wearers and we just fit into each and every warframe snuggly because we have the bone structure of a cephalopod.
C) We can body swap aka wear meatsuits (ghost/energy theory, gender tbd).
 

Occams razor leads me to believe C is the true nature of the Tenno until further decisive evidence is provided or the creators claim other wise.

Ghost in the Shell is fine example of a worn body in sci-fi. If you haven't watched the movie yet I highly recommend it, its a great classic and the following clip contains spoilers towards the end of the movie so if you haven't watched it yet I suggest you come back to this argument at a later time.

Bleeds when wounded, can body hop, will die if consciousness (ghost) is still inside body when destroyed.

Tenno = Energy/Ghost (read consciousness)
Warframe = Body/Shell
Switching Warframes = Body swap
 

Homework for the plebs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
</argument>

tl;dr: The Major is a Tenno and shes a Loki.  #mastertennorace.

[Jakcal]

Let us examine the nature of the Tenno by using a small sentence that is jam packed with details.

Ordis: "If I may say, Operator, your chosen warframe..suits you! Ha. Ha."

Let's break that tidbit down for you people that don't understand logic and reasoning.

1) There is only one Tenno on this ship.

What you have to read in between the lines here is majorly important because most of you here that are still against the energy/ghost theory don't quite understand the significance of it. By saying that you chose a warframe means there is a single individual at that very moment (only you inside the liset from what we can see for those of you that think theres more than one tenno up in that tiny ship.) there choosing from a variety of warframes. That itself acknowledges there are multiple for you to choose from and wear/equip. So with that string of thought we can speculate you are the sole occupant of the liset from a few points (this is for the two tenno one ship crowd out there).

A) There wouldn't be enough space for more than one tenno in the liset (We should call someone about the fire safety hazard if that isn't the case).

B) There is also not a second extract/drop point on the ship nor does Ordis ever talk about the other squatter in my ship ever if there is one.

C) Theres no need for another Tenno to stay behind inside the ship ever, considering theres an AI onboard that runs itself.

D) If the other gender Tenno actually does exist and just so happens to never be on the ship when I am, where the hell is she/he and why does she/he never put down some resources for the gear that we share and more importantly why the hell am I the only one ever putting the potatoes into the oven?

So we can safely rule that there is no more than one occupant on the liset and that brings us to the second half of that sentence and my second point.

2) All that gear is yours and yours alone.

The second half of that original sentence "...suits you! Ha. Ha." is meant as a pun along with the entirety of the sentence, a joke, a sad and poorly written/spoken one but thats where the essence lies. By that pun towards the Operator it allows us to extract the fact we the tenno, wear the warframes being true and they themselves are not us (you wear a jacket, but you aren't a jacket when you wear it, you can however argue whether or not it is a part of you while you are wearing it.) If point #1 is true then that means you are the sole owner of all the warframes housed in the liset, both male and female warframes, that you wear. At this point we can then determine a few facts that lead to the nature of the Tenno.

A) We can wear both male and female warframes.

B) We can assume the warframes themselves dictate the type of abilities we use base on the fact that you simply can't use the ability of other warframes when you are wearing just the one.

C) B proves that whatever the Tenno may be, can only exhibit certain abilities when wearing certain warframes and when only wearing a warframe (otherwise we wouldn't need to swap, it would just be the one warframe to rule them all).

That leaves us with a few conclusions:

We are one of the following, though not all three are mutually exclusive, it is highly unlikely we are more than one of the following cases.

A) We can some how cross-dress into different warframes that all vary in size, shape, form and gender with their gender identifiers also varying in size, shape and form. (read bewbs, hips, body structure, etc.)

B) We are shapeshifters that don't really care about gender (possibly genderless) and the warframes are just designed the way they are based on original design/wearers and we just fit into each and every warframe snuggly because we have the bone structure of a cephalopod.

C) We can body swap aka wear meatsuits (ghost/energy theory, gender tbd).

Occams razor leads me to believe C is the true nature of the Tenno until further decisive evidence is provided or the creators claim other wise.

Ghost in the Shell is fine example of a worn body in sci-fi. If you haven't watched the movie yet I highly recommend it, its a great classic and the following clip contains spoilers towards the end of the movie so if you haven't watched it yet I suggest you come back to this argument at a later time.

Bleeds when wounded, can body hop, will die if consciousness (ghost) is still inside body when destroyed.

Tenno = Energy/Ghost (read consciousness)

Warframe = Body/Shell

Switching Warframes = Body swap

Homework for the plebs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

</argument>

tl;dr: The Major is a Tenno and shes a Loki. #mastertennorace.

Rude

We are simply informing people they are not smart for believing in the energy theory.

/Sarcasm for people who need it.

I think there is one person for each frame.

My evidence is that shape shifting meat people are gross.

Also

What does this show us?

Excalibro has some thick armor. At least 10mm.

And he has stuff inside his armor that was turned black by the lasers. What turns black when theres xtreme heat? Flesh.

One person for each Frame confirmed.

[RoboDoge]

Rude

We are simply informing people they are not smart for believing in the energy theory.

/Sarcasm for people who need it.

I think there is one person for each frame.

My evidence is that shape shifting meat people are gross.

Also

What does this show us?

Excalibro has some thick armor. At least 10mm.

And he has stuff inside his armor that was turned black by the lasers. What turns black when theres xtreme heat? Flesh.

One person for each Frame confirmed.

Slightly different topic, but yet related to this picture.

 

 

Looking at it, one thing crossed my mind. People are asking how Corpus got their Nullifier technology and this picture can prove something. If Alad had machine that could immobilize Excalibur, that machine should have some tech that is able to nullify Tenno powers. Hence, Nullifier technology for Corpus.

[arch111]

Rude

We are simply informing people they are not smart for believing in the energy theory.

/Sarcasm for people who need it.

I think there is one person for each frame.

My evidence is that shape shifting meat people are gross.

Also

What does this show us?

Excalibro has some thick armor. At least 10mm.

And he has stuff inside his armor that was turned black by the lasers. What turns black when theres xtreme heat? Flesh.

One person for each Frame confirmed.

Actually that supports a body in the suit. But the warframe itself might be part flesh, or the pilot is the one killed.

This do not prove or disprove much. The debate goes on.