Pc 16.9.0: Excalibur Feedback Megathread

[Monster-T]

Prisma Skana and Mire are now the 'got-to' for Excal - because of their syndicate mods with a additional damage multiplier. Imho these damage multipliers should dont affect Exalted Blade, because these both weapons are now WAY better than other weapons... I dont like that.

Nevermind, I was wrong. Dex Dakra does nearly the same finisher damage as the Prisma Skana.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Monster-T

[Void_Vis_Vires]

Ive noticed that Radial Javalin seems underwhelming, I have 284% damage on my Excal however the ability drops off really early compared to the other abilities that synergize with Excals melee in some way.  I think it would be helpful if the damage could be increased in a fair and balanced way.  Just woke up over on my corner of the planet so having trouble thinking of ways to improve the ability however ill post more once I think about it some more

[ShawnV2]

Ive noticed that Radial Javalin seems underwhelming, I have 284% damage on my Excal however the ability drops off really early compared to the other abilities that synergize with Excals melee in some way.  I think it would be helpful if the damage could be increased in a fair and balanced way.  Just woke up over on my corner of the planet so having trouble thinking of ways to improve the ability however ill post more once I think about it some more

 

Can we just be happy with what we got? What frame out there doesn't have one completely useless skill?

[StonedMakak]

Can we just be happy with what we got? What frame out there doesn't have one completely useless skill?

 

By that logic there is no point in improving anything, ever. All frames should have a kit of 4 useful abilities to diversify and complement their playstyle. 

[Mathemagics]

i really like his armor buff and cast while reloading. Like the inbuilt finishers on his blind and also the new slashdash.

4 is cool but makes really anoing sound :D

overall hes so good now i cant stop playing him :D

[MichaelSD]

Sidenote, I miss the Prisma Excalibur icons....

[Kaotyke]

It will pain me to say this, but I must.

 

Extalted Blade + Radial Blind is too strong of a combo when used with the waves. Make so that the waves always crit with the enemy blinded, but dont benefit from the Stealth Damage Multiplier.

 

Also, take off the unlimited punch-through of the waves, give them the unlimited punch through for enemies but not for obstacles like doors or whole containers.

[Dragazer]

It will pain me to say this, but I must.

 

Extalted Blade + Radial Blind is too strong of a combo when used with the waves. Make so that the waves always crit with the enemy blinded, but dont benefit from the Stealth Damage Multiplier.

 

Also, take off the unlimited punch-through of the waves, give them the unlimited punch through for enemies but not for obstacles like doors or whole containers.

There's no need for Excalibur nerfs or buffs, he is pretty much balanced now not too weak and not too strong. Waves are already limited by 40m range and a slow travel speed. You still need to get close to melee for the combo counter because the waves don't contribute to it. Blind is also obviously limited by enemy and your awareness.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Dragazer

[Trackshot]

The recent changes to mighty Excalibur are great! But Radia Javelin does feel a bit left out. While I don't agree with a simple buff to its damage, nor to ir simply be affected by our weapons mods, it really needs some change to get closer to Excalibur's meele-centric playstyle.

 

If I may, I'd sugest for a few changes:

 

I think the javelins should increase the combo-counter. Its a simply change, that will give Excalibur's kit a bit more consistency, since keeping the combo counter hight can be challenging sometimes, and it really buffs his damage output. RJ would not only stop the enemies on their tracks, but would buff your meele attack to finish the ones that survive off ! I would speed up its ending animation a bit though ( the "removing the sword from the ground" one. it looks awesome, but following combos would be a nightmare with what we have... though we can mod for that with Natural Talent.)

 

Also, the energy waves from Exalted blade are affected by the combo counter right? Why should't Radial Javelin, after all, we are already throwing swords at the bad guys here. Successive casts wouldn't be so much of an Issue, since after the first few bonusses, you need an absurdly hight combo counter to get to the next tier.

 

Lastly, though it might be a bit exagerated, make the javelins have the stealth modifier that all his other abilities have. It can't crit, and its damage will still be less than the Exalted Blade's attacks, but again, that might be too much.

 

I think Radial Javelin deserves some love, and theese changes would give it purpose, instead of being just a worst version of Radial Blind. 

 

Also... I believe the slow travel time of Exalted Blade's energy waves to be a balancing mechanic, it would be great if it were affected by mods like Wirlwind! That would give us the option to give out on some damage for a bit of quality of life modding! What do you guys think? It's not an original idea thoug,  and not even mine to begin with... just wanted to point it out.

[tris1]

4th ability needs the auto parry to block knockdowns or the stamina taken out as the auto parry drains stamina like mad and then will not let you parry a melee knockdown.

Let some melee mods like glavies rebound or the range mod of the weapon to effect EB like the waves

Radial javelin still needs tweaking

Adds to combo counter

Gets the stealth multiple when used on radial blind

Duration mods effect stun time but works like rhino stomp with not being able to recast until the end

Finisher damage

[StonedMakak]

Ok there are some major shenanigans with Limbo and Excal combo. Just did a mobile defense and being in the Rift not only invalidated my energy drain from EB, but I was also gaining energy. Note, that I'm running only 140% efficiency on my Excal. On top of that, EB's waves can damage enemies outside the Rift. So yeah, Limbo + Excal = Immortal Excal with unlimited EB. The energy thing is not a big deal, but the waves need to be changed so that they don't damage anything outside the Rift ASAP. I didn't check it earlier because it seemed natural to me that it wouldn't work. Obvious god mode is obvious. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by tisdfogg

[SomeCrackHead]

Ok there are some major shenanigans with Limbo and Excal combo. Just did a mobile defense and being in the Rift not only invalidated my energy drain from EB, but I was also gaining energy. Note, that I'm running only 140% efficiency on my Excal. On top of that, EB's waves can damage enemies outside the Rift. So yeah, Limbo + Excal = Immortal Excal with unlimited EB. The energy thing is not a big deal, but the waves need to be changed so that they don't damage anything outside the Rift ASAP. I didn't check it earlier because it seemed natural to me that it wouldn't work. Obvious god mode is obvious. 

yep, pretty sure a nerf fix for this is coming, and you'll see it coming at superspeed because everything else in this thread is ignored.

Edited June 29, 2015 by SomeCrackHead

[AkerTheSpjot]

yep, pretty sure a nerf fix for this is coming, and you'll see it coming at superspeed because everything else in this thread is ignored.

They did fix some of the bugs, didn't they ?

[SomeCrackHead]

They did fix some of the bugs, didn't they ?

it's what i'm saying. those gets fixed, but the actual feedback has not been taken into effect as far as i see, considering i saw no mention of excalibur at all, in devstream.

[Dragazer]

 

Ok there are some major shenanigans with Limbo and Excal combo. Just did a mobile defense and being in the Rift not only invalidated my energy drain from EB, but I was also gaining energy. Note, that I'm running only 140% efficiency on my Excal. On top of that, EB's waves can damage enemies outside the Rift. So yeah, Limbo + Excal = Immortal Excal with unlimited EB. The energy thing is not a big deal, but the waves need to be changed so that they don't damage anything outside the Rift ASAP. I didn't check it earlier because it seemed natural to me that it wouldn't work. Obvious god mode is obvious. 

 

 

It intended to work like that I believe, as most if not all Warframe abilities work in the rift like Peacemaker, Avalanche, bullets fired through the Electric Shield. Also it is not complete god mode, toxic eximuses can still damage you in the rift along with the other various eximus effects. Nullifiers can still cancel banish and you are still affected by AOE damage from bombards and napalms.

 

Edited June 29, 2015 by Dragazer

[StonedMakak]

 

 

 

 

It intended to work like that I believe, as most if not all Warframe abilities work in the rift like Peacemaker, Avalanche, bullets fired through the Electric Shield. Also it is not complete god mode, toxic eximuses can still damage you in the rift along with the other various eximus effects. Nullifiers can still cancel banish and you are still affected by AOE damage from bombards and napalms.

 

 

 

The fact that it works for others does not make it OK. It just means that other abilities also should not work like that. Even with all you just said, it's still ridiculously OP. So I have to watch out for toxic ancients, bombards, napalms, and remember not to run into a huge glowing bubble. Good thing I don't even have to get near them because waves. Everything else can be safely ignored. Does making 90% of enemies completely harmless for a solid minute (Duration Limbo), with NO downsides and energy regen to boot, sound balanced to you?

[MichaelSD]

The fact that it works for others does not make it OK. It just means that other abilities also should not work like that. Even with all you just said, it's still ridiculously OP. So I have to watch out for toxic ancients, bombards, napalms, and remember not to run into a huge glowing bubble. Good thing I don't even have to get near them because waves. Everything else can be safely ignored. Does making 90% of enemies completely harmless for a solid minute (Duration Limbo), with NO downsides and energy regen to boot, sound balanced to you?

 

I think EB is OP too, besides the fact that it replaces my melee weapon, which I do not like it at all.

[Dragazer]

The fact that it works for others does not make it OK. It just means that other abilities also should not work like that. Even with all you just said, it's still ridiculously OP. So I have to watch out for toxic ancients, bombards, napalms, and remember not to run into a huge glowing bubble. Good thing I don't even have to get near them because waves. Everything else can be safely ignored. Does making 90% of enemies completely harmless for a solid minute (Duration Limbo), with NO downsides and energy regen to boot, sound balanced to you?

Yeah I kinda agree that its pretty imba but that's an issue with limbo not Excalibur. Excalibur by himself is fine as of right now. Only thing I can suggest is to have his javelin contribute to melee combo counter to give it some utility.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Dragazer

[RealPandemonium]

The fact that it works for others does not make it OK. It just means that other abilities also should not work like that. Even with all you just said, it's still ridiculously OP. So I have to watch out for toxic ancients, bombards, napalms, and remember not to run into a huge glowing bubble. Good thing I don't even have to get near them because waves. Everything else can be safely ignored. Does making 90% of enemies completely harmless for a solid minute (Duration Limbo), with NO downsides and energy regen to boot, sound balanced to you?

This is funny because people constantly complain that Limbo sucks.  It's crazy how OP people want things to be in this game.  

[CombatPastor]

The fact that it works for others does not make it OK. It just means that other abilities also should not work like that. Even with all you just said, it's still ridiculously OP. So I have to watch out for toxic ancients, bombards, napalms, and remember not to run into a huge glowing bubble. Good thing I don't even have to get near them because waves. Everything else can be safely ignored. Does making 90% of enemies completely harmless for a solid minute (Duration Limbo), with NO downsides and energy regen to boot, sound balanced to you?

 

The thing we may have to consider in this "OP Combo" is Limbo's ability. Yes, the combo is awesome in theory, but how many have put it in practice to test? Because Limbo's Banish is a targeted ability, it may be difficult to hit Excalibur in the middle of melee. More often than not, the Limbo player may end up just banishing an enemy instead. The easy route may be to cast Cataclysm, but that causes the mobile Excalibur to be forced into a semi-stationary position to get the best of this combo. 

 

Also, this combination basically works with any toggleable ability. Ember + Limbo = semi-permanent World on Fire. There are plenty of other examples. The fact remains, however, that the combo of Excal + Limbo still lends toward what DE wants for the game - an active playstyle. The nerfs DE has been passing out are all related to any playstyle that allows a macro or a Drinking Bird to play the game for you. You can see examples of this in the nerfs related to Viver, E-Gate, AFK-timer, and now the cringe-inducing GMag + Mesa.

 

tl;dr - Yes, the combination is powerful, but it does require some skill (even if only a small amount) to pull off, and isn't nearly as susceptible to the "macro-and-walk-away" farming methods from before.

[StonedMakak]

I think EB is OP too, besides the fact that it replaces my melee weapon, which I do not like it at all.

 

Woah there, that's not what I said. The synergy is OP IMHO. A slight difference.

 

Yeah I kinda agree that its pretty imba but that's an issue with limbo not Excalibur. Excalibur by himself is fine as of right now. Only thing I can suggest is to have his javelin contribute to melee combo counter to give it some utility.

 

I agree, Excalibur is mostly fine.That's why I want the synergy nerfed, not the skill. As for RJ, I personally like the idea someone gave, about it scaling from combo counter, so you can "charge" its damage so to speak.

 

This is funny because people constantly complain that Limbo sucks.  It's crazy how OP people want things to be in this game.  

 

Sadly, I agree. The Rift is meant to create a different plane of existence so you can divide and conquer your enemies, it is so typical of this community to completely ignore that and focus on one aspect of it that allows Maximum Cheese (Cheese Prime?).   

 

 

The thing we may have to consider in this "OP Combo" is Limbo's ability. Yes, the combo is awesome in theory, but how many have put it in practice to test? Because Limbo's Banish is a targeted ability, it may be difficult to hit Excalibur in the middle of melee. More often than not, the Limbo player may end up just banishing an enemy instead. The easy route may be to cast Cataclysm, but that causes the mobile Excalibur to be forced into a semi-stationary position to get the best of this combo. 

 

Also, this combination basically works with any toggleable ability. Ember + Limbo = semi-permanent World on Fire. There are plenty of other examples. The fact remains, however, that the combo of Excal + Limbo still lends toward what DE wants for the game - an active playstyle. The nerfs DE has been passing out are all related to any playstyle that allows a macro or a Drinking Bird to play the game for you. You can see examples of this in the nerfs related to Viver, E-Gate, AFK-timer, and now the cringe-inducing GMag + Mesa.

 

tl;dr - Yes, the combination is powerful, but it does require some skill (even if only a small amount) to pull off, and isn't nearly as susceptible to the "macro-and-walk-away" farming methods from before.

 

It's not remotely as difficult as you're describing it. All I need to do in a PUG is write "banish pls" and most English-speaking Limbo's will be more than happy to oblige. Players who main Limbo do it because they understand the potential of the frame, and they react with enthusiasm when someone else does too. 

 

In my book the skill, or rather synergy between skills, that gives near-total invincibility, for prolonged periods of time, is just as bad as macro-enablers. Both remove basic game mechanics that every player should have to deal with on regular basis.

 

Again so I am not misunderstood: Banish is fine, EB is fine (mostly), it's the synergy between them that should be removed. Same applies to all other skills you mentioned. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by tisdfogg

[rockscl]

 

 

Again so I am not misunderstood: Banish is fine, EB is fine (mostly), it's the synergy between them that should be removed. Same applies to all other skills you mentioned. 

 

EB waves, in this moment, can attack from the Rift like abilities do, and can bypass null bubbles as melee, and its not restrained by punch through limits, that thing could be seen as broken since its not respecting the system of damages between the rift and nullies, and is somehow placed out of the common restrictions, however by being in the rift the damage is limited to only the waves which is far inferior to the direct contact 

Edited June 29, 2015 by rockscl

[StonedMakak]

EB waves, in this moment, can attack from the Rift like abilities do, and can bypass null bubbles as melee, and its not restrained by punch through limits, that thing could be seen as broken since its not respecting the system of damages between the rift and nullies, and is somehow placed out of the common restrictions, however by being in the rift the damage is limited to only the waves which is far inferior to the direct contact 

 

Not sure what you mean, I have experienced no notable difference between wave damage in the rift and outside the rift, can you elaborate? By direct contact you mean the damage dealt with the blade itself? 

[DeMonkey]

Not sure what you mean, I have experienced no notable difference between wave damage in the rift and outside the rift, can you elaborate? By direct contact you mean the damage dealt with the blade itself? 

He's saying that in order for the waves to damage through the rift, it has to work as an ability. However the fact that it passes through nullifier bubbles is something that abilities cannot do. It currently doesn't follow the general ability mechanics, nor does it follow general weapon mechanics as weapons cannot punch through a nullifier bubble either. His final point notes that although being in the rift is OP only the waves will do damage and not the blade, reducing Excaliburs damage output.

 

He has a point, why doesn't EB follow standard ability mechanics? If it's not going to follow ability mechanics why doesn't it follow weapon mechanics? 

[StonedMakak]

He's saying that in order for the waves to damage through the rift, it has to work as an ability. However the fact that it passes through nullifier bubbles is something that abilities cannot do. It currently doesn't follow the general ability mechanics, nor does it follow general weapon mechanics as weapons cannot punch through a nullifier bubble either. His final point notes that although being in the rift is OP only the waves will do damage and not the blade, reducing Excaliburs damage output.

 

He has a point, why doesn't EB follow standard ability mechanics? If it's not going to follow ability mechanics why doesn't it follow weapon mechanics? 

 

He does have a point indeed, it is a inconsistency. As for the reduced damage, not many things survive the waves from my EB, probably because it fires like a SMG with Fury & Berserker, must be why I didn't notice the damage drop from 'physical' attacks. I general dislike the way the Rift and abilities interact, but that's just my opinion, take it or leave it. Either way, good point, the inconsistency needs to be fixed.