I Died In Five Minutes On Mars-- Why Warframe's Difficulty Is Absurdly Anti-Fun

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

First of all, if I get a dollar for every time someone doesn't read this post and then calls me a scrub, I'm betting I'd be rich.

But here's the story. I was leveling a Synoid and Drakgoon, and decided to take them and my Nyx to Mars. First, the level spawned with ice and I was left with a fraction of my shields. I quickly learned from a detron crewman that I couldn't outgun them with my weak weapons, as my shields would be wiped before I damaged them enough. This was annoying on its own but not gamebreaking--yet. Although I don't know how a newbie is supposed to function in that situation.

Then New Loka decided I was due for a spawning of ancients. Before I located them, I'd been hit with a toxic proc. Rolling away to save my health, I then cast Chaos and mind controlled the venomous eximi. Believing I was safe from the toxin, I attacked with the melee weapon I had with me, which was the only one sufficiently strong enough. I managed to kill a Life Leach and Fire eximus, but this Loka squad spawned with three venomous eximi. My instinct was to Absorb, but of course that does almost no damage when faced off against ancients. So I rolled away again, taking two more toxic procs in the process. I tried taking shots from afar with my Drakgoon and Gammacor, but this did almost no damage even when they weren't buffing each other. I cast chaos again, and this came back to bite me-- one of the eximi was blasted through the air by the last Fire eximus, and landed far enough that it toxin procced me again. Despite my rolling, which diminishes the damage by 80%, this proc was enough to kill.

Upon revive, I killed the ancients with melee, but lost all but a sliver of my health in the process. Because of the Detron Crewmen I wasn't able to safely use the weapons I wanted to, and was stuck mixing Chaos and Absorb with melee. At five minutes, I extracted wondering how a new player would be expected to handle that situation.

So what's the point? There was nothing remotely fun about any of that. I didn't become better from it, and I didn't feel that I had a fair chance either as the attacks were undodgeable. Moreover, I don't understand how a new player could possibly survive that situation.

DE's "challenge" relies entirely upon saying "Yay, we killed them!" without asking if they had a chance or had anything to learn from it. This isn't good game design. If I was dodging attacks and messed up, I would feel more satisfied. If I was getting hit as I failed to take advantage of openings, I would be learning. But I died because RNG said "you lose health now" and the best way to prevent that from happening is to play a game with more rewarding gameplay.

I'm not proposing fixes because I and many others have already. But what's the point if DE doesn't see the problem?

For those saying "this is an extremely unlikely scenario" which is a fair point:

This is an extreme scenario, but it highlights a problem that exists and shows itself every time two Ballistas happen to hit you, while coptering, at once. It shows itself when a seeker hits a slash proc on the only shot it lands. It shows itself when three ancients and two mutalist Moa's spawn at once. It shows itself when a Nullifier spawns as an arctic eximus with two corrupted bombards inside. This is an extreme, yes, but it is an extreme that highlights a problem Warframe is riddled with.

Edited June 21, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Dromeos-Prime]

-snip-

Moreover, I don't understand how a new player could possibly survive that situation.

-snip-

 

That's because new players can't exactly piss off enemy syndicates that much. 

 

Also:

[gif]http://i.imgur.com/iaSznI5.gif[/gif]

[IfritKajiTora]

Yes some times it is stupid. Enemies have a lot of armor at higher leveles, and you cant avoid bullets because they are really fast, thats why I hate shoter games, but warframe have some melee stuff and its good.

Solo Tower IV Exterminate its not that hard enemies have around 40 level, I fighted with enemies on 70 level and it wasnt that hard:

 

4:15 what de fuq just happend? Is really Frost have 190 armor? Many times I tried and My shield was holding preety good, but when my shield down BOOM immediately a whole 660 health GONE -_O.

Or maybe its only Frost/Frost Prime problem that Devs added him by mistake not 190armor but -190armor which is boosting the damage Frost get on health.

Edited June 21, 2015 by IfritKajiTora

[Meosuke]

Here's a tip, have some people help you farm for life strike and focus more on building for HP than for Shields. It will make your life so much easier if you don't have any other way to heal yourself.

[Flanyr]

Well, Likely you have rank -2 against New Loka, which gives stronger assassins, and Syndicates don't even start until MR2 (Maybe later, I'm not sure) So a COMPLETELY new player won't have to deal with them solo. There's also a reason why Nyx isn't a starter frame.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

That's because new players can't exactly piss off enemy syndicates that much. 

 

Also:

[gif]http://i.imgur.com/iaSznI5.gif[/gif]

All it takes is MR3, or if they play with an older player who has already done so.

[Sloan441]

A new player handles difficult situations by becoming a better and more experienced player.

 

Now, you have a goal.

[TeenageGirlVodkaPuke]

...You should bring better weapons and a warframe with actually useful powers ?

 

git gud

[Wurdyburd]

1. Using a shotgun with a Nyx is a bad idea because Nyx is a non-combat caster frame, and shotguns demand you be up close to deal anywhere near it's maximum damage
2. You're using a slash shotgun on Corpus. No wonder you were having problems.

3. Larger assassin squads are designed to be difficult for a full team, being solo is a bad idea. Granted, there should be some mechanic to prevent something like that for solo players.

5. You're meleeing with a Nyx which is still a bad idea
6. You can play the long game with MInd Control and Chaos, and they will eventually kill each other

7. "how a new player would be expected to handle that situation." A new player doesn't have max-hate from Loka, and would be on a team; if they weren't on a team, and were solo, no hate, no squad.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Here's a tip, have some people help you farm for life strike and focus more on building for HP than for Shields. It will make your life so much easier if you don't have any other way to heal yourself.

I have life strike, and I had vitality. But that would've required killing myself as the ancients were doing 40+ damage/tic each and there were no orbs that dropped.

[Draketh]

Well I guess I could start off pointing out that it is unlikely for a new player to have syndicate enemies of high caliber appear on them or how that is an unfortunate situation that is a very unlucky circumstance of chance, however the simple fact is that all of this could possibly happen to a new player. For that all I can say is that the game isn't always kind to the new comer as more challenges are put in the game for the vets and the only advice I can offer is to bring a friend or keep it an open group in hopes of someone joining your game to provide backup.

[Husla]

Here's a tip, have some people help you farm for life strike and focus more on building for HP than for Shields. It will make your life so much easier if you don't have any other way to heal yourself.

Mars is corpus, using vitality would be silly.

[StinkyPygmy]

I'm just impressed you actually roll. 

Seriously, rolling is da bomb.

 

Honestly ancients are the easiest of all. I just run off and take em out 1 by 1 from a far.

In the case of new players, they shouldn't even be at that stage with syndicates before they have reasonable enough gear.

Always bring a reliable, ranked (ranged for ancients) weapon when leveling and this wont be an issue.

Edited June 21, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[Flanyr]

Mars is corpus, using vitality would be silly.

Except you can heal yourself with Life Strike.

[Kracken]

and I'm wondering around mars with unranked stuff tho test their dmg xD

 

but.. death squad spawns (and killers) are outside of any planet difficulty / rank - and they are relatively more tough than the enemies you are currently facing - thats completely normal behavior.

 

and if you want to ask why they spawned ? because you angered someone and they want your head.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Cracken

[Dawn11715]

well, to be fair a new player wouldt have a strong squad send after him, but your right:

Warframe is quiet unfriendly to new players. 

One of the core problems is that solo-play isn't balanced at all in comparision to multiplayer.

While veterans can do most stuff nonetheless, newbies are pretty much domed...

And ice proc should affect enemy's in a negative way too. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

1. Using a shotgun with a Nyx is a bad idea because Nyx is a non-combat caster frame, and shotguns demand you be up close to deal anywhere near it's maximum damage

2. You're using a slash shotgun on Corpus. No wonder you were having problems.

3. Larger assassin squads are designed to be difficult for a full team, being solo is a bad idea. Granted, there should be some mechanic to prevent something like that for solo players.

5. You're meleeing with a Nyx which is still a bad idea

6. You can play the long game with MInd Control and Chaos, and they will eventually kill each other

7. "how a new player would be expected to handle that situation." A new player doesn't have max-hate from Loka, and would be on a team; if they weren't on a team, and were solo, no hate, no squad.

1. I was a level 30 Nyx facing level 5 enemies.

2. Level 5 Corpus have as much health as shields.

3. If I had a team there they would most likely have been newbies. So they would've been procced to death on the first tic.

5. It wasn't the plan, but it ended up being what I had to do.

6. After two casts of chaos, they'd done a tiny sliver of damage to each other. Because of their inherent damage mitigation I could've spent hours trying to do that, and life support would've run out long before.

7. A new player can be in a squad with someone who does. And they wouldn't have had the health to survive one tic.

[Meosuke]

I have life strike, and I had vitality. But that would've required killing myself as the ancients were doing 40+ damage/tic each and there were no orbs that dropped.

I don't know what to tell ya then, I survived a New Loka Spawn in a T2 Survival with my Excal with my melee and Life Strike before his rework.

[StinkyPygmy]

...You should bring better weapons and a warframe with actually useful powers ?

 

git gud

Did you seriously just imply nyx is usless?

Oh my...

 

 

 

1. Using a shotgun with a Nyx is a bad idea because Nyx is a non-combat caster frame, and shotguns demand you be up close to deal anywhere near it's maximum damage

2. You're using a slash shotgun on Corpus. No wonder you were having problems.

3. Larger assassin squads are designed to be difficult for a full team, being solo is a bad idea. Granted, there should be some mechanic to prevent something like that for solo players.

5. You're meleeing with a Nyx which is still a bad idea

6. You can play the long game with MInd Control and Chaos, and they will eventually kill each other

7. "how a new player would be expected to handle that situation." A new player doesn't have max-hate from Loka, and would be on a team; if they weren't on a team, and were solo, no hate, no squad.

1. Shotguns are fine with nyx. Just gotta know what you're doing.

2. slash is fine for corpus. Especially if it is high status.

3. Can't argue that. But they aren't an issue for vets or well prepared players solo.

4. You missed 4.

5. Why? You can make enemies practically ignore you at any time? Even without powers meleeing as nyx isn't and issue. The issue was teh toxin procs and OP's lack of leveled range weapons.

6. True. In the case of ancients though that would take years.

7. Very true.

Edited June 21, 2015 by StinkyPygmy

[Letter13]

If you want to level gear up, don't go straight for a mid-level area. You're going to wind up relying more on your Warframe skills than your weapons (Assuming you're levelling weapons and not your frame) and you're going to severely cut the XP gained for your weapons.

 

I've been playing a long time, and whenever I want to level stuff up and don't have some friends to ferry me through a place like Draco, I always start out on Mercury, move to Venus, and then after I have some mod points to better my gear I'll start to venture into mid-level areas.

[Davoodoo]

...You should bring better weapons and a warframe with actually useful powers ?

 

git gud

New player have no better frames, have no better weapons.

 

For new player with unmodded mk1 braton, its a whole clip to down single lvl10 bombard, all while said bombard will kill them with 2-3 shots.

 

20lvl detron crewmen will burn through new player silly 300 shields in few shots, but then you have 5 more of them in same room and they dont die instantly since new player have no weapons.

 

 

My personal rule for a long time was to always have at least 1 ranged weapon capable of downing lvl 50 enemy within second.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

If you want to level gear up, don't go straight for a mid-level area. You're going to wind up relying more on your Warframe skills than your weapons (Assuming you're levelling weapons and not your frame) and you're going to severely cut the XP gained for your weapons.

 

I've been playing a long time, and whenever I want to level stuff up and don't have some friends to ferry me through a place like Draco, I always start out on Mercury, move to Venus, and then after I have some mod points to better my gear I'll start to venture into mid-level areas.

I wouldn't really call Mars mid-level (level 5 enemies), but I'll be sticking to Mercury and Venus. Although I don't think that would've changed a lot in this scenario.

[TeenageGirlVodkaPuke]

Did you seriously just imply nyx is usless?

Oh my...

 

#BuffNyx2015

 

Also about newer players... they should just play in co-op if a mission is too hard ? The game ins't balanced around solo players.

Edited June 21, 2015 by _Anti_Freeze_

[Zareek]

It sounds like toxic proc is a lot to handle for a lower level? it's just hard to make a conclussion though, as your situation is 1 out of million. it depends on frames, weapons, gear, enemy locations, faction spawn or not, your personal player skills, rank on frame and weapons and so on.

 

I've played many lower levels and I personally haven't had any issues. When I find myself in tight situations, I create a long distance and I play slowly but safe for a little while. 

 

That being said, I think the issue here is a mix of many. Your weapons were underperforming (drakgoon is a crappy weapon), faction spawned in an unfortunate time, and possibly handling the situation in a way that could have been better?

 

Not saying you are a scrub though, no one is perfect. I see MR 19 people make bad decisions too, we all do it. Also, it's not a very good conclussion to make, as I said, there are just too many factors I think.

[-QueenUnicorn-]

the problem is play style i have after reaching mr 18 gotten bored and play excal with only health shield and resistance mods and dont use abilities, ive found its easy to do most missions 25 -40 with it now i do get low on health most of the time. i use a karak wraith with one forma and ya thats about it, its fun but i do think it depends on how you play. late game involves alot of running and trying to stay both far away from enimies or evadeing bullets so ya