Parkour 2.0 (U17 Megathread Topic)

[Faulcun]

No matter how many contradictions you want to throw at me, people who have skill disagree.

 

It isn't that players can't move as fast, its about players being able to exploit the old system.  It can't be done now so people who did it constantly are upset.

 

Sorry.  I guess its time to move on to another game you can exploit.

 

Sorry bro. Wrong on all counts. For me, it is entirely about not being able to move as fast. Show me a legit run in the obstacle course that beats 28s, and ill give up.

[Kashuken]

I don't like it.

 

Since coptering has been nerfed everything is so slow and not just speed wise also animation wise. The coptering nerf means the melee slide is slower.

 

Take Bullet Jump, looks nice and in slow mo to me but you don't travel as far and is slow, a bullet is fast but this isn't and is time consuming.

 

Wall latch is awful.

 

Wall running is clumsy and slow and last i checked tenno are not kangeroos in a frame.

 

Zipline running is okay but since ziplines appear at the end of missions then it is useless with the current tilesets.

 

Only the double jump and air glide is useful to an extent but even then double jump is kinda meh and can't even reach a ledge half the time.

 

Add in the transitions from trying to wall run to another wall is awful.

 

This Parkour 2.0 is more like -2.0 for the things i have lost and been able to do, i move slower, i cover less distance and it is more clumsy.

[ChaosMarine]

The new movement mechanics is garbage. I'd much rather the older system. It was fast. The new one is frustratingly slow. 

[Sci_Ant]

For all those who are saying that Parkour 2.0 is slow, how is this slow to you?? >>

 

 

It seems about the same as the old melee system's speed, minus coptering and I personally never used pure Jump+crouch+meleeeeeeeeee coptering as didn't a ton of other people.

 

The above maneuver was executed by first bullet jumping while aiming a little above straight ahead, then immediately aim gliding, then pressing crouch+jump for a mid-glide double jump then immediately crouching and aiming which actually makes you gain speed if done correctly allowing you to traverse a large distance without having to touch the ground, similar to coptering.

 

Please watch this great tutorial on how to use Parkour 2.0 effectively and try to chain bullet jumps into aim glides into front rolls and so on and you will be moving faster and more precisely than with the old Parkour system.

 

[Arkhenbarn]

When wall(hop ?) running, I need to constantly keep my sight not too far from the wall in order not to fall... With the previous system, I could look elsewhere and still run, so I could prepare my next actions and melee attacks accurately. Now, it's almost impossible. If you could just bring back the normal wallrunning (I mean ACTUAL running) and combine it with the freedom of the new system, it would grant more control, more accurate planning in actions. Wall hopping makes me feel like I'm going to fall every following step...

[Thaumatos]

Sorry bro. Wrong on all counts. For me, it is entirely about not being able to move as fast. Show me a legit run in the obstacle course that beats 28s, and ill give up.

You posted one thats 27s.

 

I'm done here...you're just a fan of bugged movement.

 

Edit

 

God all the 'boo hoo' coptering posts....makes me sick for this community...

Edited August 2, 2015 by Thaumatos

[Thaumatos]

No, please don't tie aim gliding to sprinting. It would be an absolute nightmare on controllers. Alternate fire perhaps(even that's a stretch with where it's at by default), but not sprint.

I don't think you understand my post.

 

Re-read the part at the top....

[NDroid]

Reposting what I wrote in a different thread:

I'm still experimenting with the new system but so far I think it has potential. I agree regarding the wall hopping animations, they just don't look very good. The concept itself I don't mind but the looks need to be improved. What bothers me is that you look like you're hopping over an obstacle, knees tucked in while jumping up or along a vertical wall. A more leap-like animation would be more fitting. 

 

Double jumps I found to be quite fun and actually pretty useful, filling a gap in the movement set where you needed more than a regular jump but without the massive momentum from coptering\aerial melee. 

 

Now Bullet Jump could at least use some tuning. Right now it's fine for gaining altitude but seems to give less of a horizontal boost if you're aiming too low. Also, it feels a bit imprecise compared to the old aerial melee for example. But with a few tweaks I think it could become a pretty decent move. 

 

Finally, Aim-gliding is a fun addition, my only issue with it is the abrupt cutoff which just feels out of place. I'm not sure if that's something that should rely on a mod.

[Thaumatos]

For all those who are saying that Parkour 2.0 is slow, how is this slow to you?? >>

Its slow because

 

People coptarded because they wanted to make up for unskilled play.  Sorry but now it takes a little more thought.

 

Adapt.

[RIOT]

DE PLEASE!!

add more tile sections that require lots of parkour to get through!, I'm talking "wall jump to zip line and then using bullet jump to get to ledge to get the next section" kind of complexity

hell! I'd remove elevators or add a bunch of broken / elevators that the enemy cut the power to (only applies if they are alarmed) and requiring us to have to jump up the shaft to the next floor.

TL;DR I love parkour 2.0, I just wish I had more complex tile sections that required more then a single bullet jump to get through.

[Rakshal]

From my experience, wall hopping is just as useless as wall running before it. The tiles aren't built with parkour in mind, they need to have high flat long walls for the wall hopping to be useful.

[Faulcun]

You posted one thats 27s.

 

I'm done here...you're just a fan of bugged movement.

 

Edit

 

God all the 'boo hoo' coptering posts....makes me sick for this community...

 

No sir. I posted one that admittedly isnt a legit run because I just simply jump over each section. My 28.07 run is a legit run with the old system that cant possibly take advantage of coptering because weapons arent allowed in the dojo. That means no broken mechanics, completely legit, basic moves.... that I argue are faster.  Beat my time with a legit run now, and you win the internet. Otherwise admit defeat.

[Cool3303]

I can see potential... I can also see lazy changes for Level Designers that put stupid geometry everywhere (Making Wallhop necessary)

and even more unforgiveable animation locking.... (Good that slam attacks are falling faster though, make the dead recovery frames look even more disgusting)

 

Overall:

->I get that coptering was supposed to be less strong, but right now it removes momentum and locks you into place on  A LOT of weapons.

Why did Aerial Melee's speed get removed? It was never criticized it was never part of the ridiculous "hurhur bug hurhur" BS that surrounded coptering it was simply a move on its own and didnt make you overshoot as much as coptering.

Why did slide jump get removed?I was quite fond of it.It seems unnecessary to bind bullet coptering to ground moves.

Why isn't there any momentum system... wasn't it promised at some point?
Why isn't there a charged jump? It was discussed too... what would be the rammifications of that?

 

Bulletjump:

Pro:Good useable move, covers a good amount of speed (less than the best copters did, but improves on weak weapons)

Con:

Slidejump replaced trought it FOR SOME REASON

Locked into 2 stupid variants: A.Horizontal, B.Vertical, and aiming doesn't affect these proportionally(it does but only slightly) which makes it unreliable on anything but flat ground.

 

Doublejump:

Good for nothing as jump extender with aim glide or momentum boost to Bulletjumping

Pros: Gives a more dynamic feel.

Cons:Makes it way too tempting and effective to just spam space+strg (along with BulletJ and Wallhop)

Doesn't really add a direction changer...

 

Wallhopping:

Pro:Allows kicking off small obstacles

Con:

For building momentum requires looking at the next wall/destination before hitting the current wall to jump off (extremely unintuitive)

Bandaid for broken Vaulting animations (spamming space will catapult you over every obstacle) which are still incredibly slow, fixing these would have sufficed

Removed Wallflinging/Walljumping (that's what everyone is missing) replacing it with a jump going at best 1/2 as far.

 

Aim glide:

Pro:

Allows for shooting most weapons in the air

Extends jumps greatly

Looks, admittedly impressive

Con:

Glorified bandaid for roll animations breaking weapon reloads and being generally way too long (once again easy fix for the animations department)

Really odd due to high camera zooming

Doesn't retain height very long  especially in small and low tilesets.

Forward motion is boosted strongly,forcing you across huge rooms (even if you only wanted some still aim gliding)

 

Wall latching:

Pro:Functional

Con:

Barely any uses? Breakes flow of most gameplay.

 

 

Conclusion:

Parkour2.0 is centered around Bulletjump as means of gaining speed.

Parkour2.0 adds

#1Bulletjump

#2Doublejump (cannot change jumps much)

#3Wallhopping

#4Wall latching

#5Aim gliding

#6 Running on Rails (which prevents you from using powers and makes you rigid, having no benefit whatsoever)

 

Parkour2.0 removes

#1Coptering (Ground/Air)->Absolute lacking momentum also gimps melee weapons

#2Directional Air Melee->Absolutely lacking momentum also gimps melee weapons air reach

#3,4,5 Wallrunning(Horizontal/Vertical+ Shooting)->Requires sitting still to shoot now, Upwards wallrun was equal to Wall latch

#6 Wall flinging

#7 Ground Slide Jump->Nope only bullet jump

#8 Hanging/Sliding on Rails ->Yes it wasn't all too good but it allowed to focus on shooting, new system is just distracting.

 

Parkour2.0 fixes:

Momentum locking you to walls (mostly)

Coptering bug hurrrhurrr so bad de pls nerfff hurr hurrhurr

 

Parkour2.0 bandaids:

Too long Vaulting Animations

Too long roll/jump recovery animations

Wallrunning not working half the time because incompetent level designers added overhangs/ledges to every goddamn object (now it only bugs 1/4th of the time GENIUS)

 

Parkour2.0 does not fix:

Being able to bypass all content by rushing (hell it even adds a accuracy debuff to enemies now)

Every single animation being completely rigid

Inverse Kinematics being unheard off in DE's animation department

 

Fazit:

I don't like it, bulletjump is a ok replacement for coptering but I want Directional Melee, Slide Jump and Wallruns back.

Mobillity currently either consists of spamming space+strng or really carefull just normally jumping while sliding which is actually faster.

[DawnFalcon]

Adapt.

 

Great, what games do you recommend for us?

[Rodee7]

 

 

Although Its not exactly what is intended on the Concept Trailer you guys did a really good job implementing the moves in the parkour 2.0 system. It adds more vertically, and you get much more creative ways to take out your enemies 

 

Blind Feedback (First impressions):

 

The Wall Dash: It did take some getting used to as its based on where your "crosshair" is on your hud. Most of time when you aim slightly off to the horizon of the wall I tend to jump off the wall by accident

 

Also I don't know if this was intended but instead you hold the spacebar to hop across the walls. I thought it was just tapping spacebar to go across and up the walls so that threw me off a bit

 

I would suggest controlling the arcs of your wall hops based on how fast you tap the space key and timing it right for more momentum.

 

Wall Latch:  Nothing really to say about It except falling after you unlatch just slide down slowly instead so you have a chance to wall jump off

 

Side note: would be cool if you added a long horzional jump if you could aim with your crosshair and hit space while latching, But I think Bullet Jump has that covered.

 

Aim Gliding: I like this one. Combine this with a double jump and bullet jump and you can cover a lot of ground that way especially big maps. It may seem ridiculous but it fun to do keep it as it is

 

Basically This in a nutshell vvv

I Feel LIke max payne beetch!!!

 

 

Zipline: Still havent played It a lot yet so I can't give feedback for this yet

 

 Overall I feel like its a good start and things need to be adjusted before its just right but I've had a great blast with these new parkour system.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Rodee7

[Wakeoflove]

I love parkour 2.0, except for two things:

 

1.Bullet jump needs to be sprint+jump. (some how making this optional would be fine, different strokes for different folks)

 

2.Wall latch/aim glide should be infinite.

 

Point 1: In most video games all high velocity/high mobility is tied to the sprint button, it makes more sense for bullet jump to simply be how you jump with sprint active. If you want a normal jump, let off the gas for a sec. Switching between sprint and crouch for keeping the speed up is killing my pinky. Also, I'm pretty sure the only reason bullet jump is attached to crouch is because the old idea of using crouch in coptering got stuck in the mix somewhere, please oh please take that out entirely. I actually find the copter motion less hand issue inducing than the back and forth on my pinky between sprint and bullet jump. Coptering was a bit of a contortion, but my pinky stayed on shift and I used my thumb to hit ctrl as I pressed E for melee. This might perhaps be less of an issue if toggling sprint actually worked or if there was an option for sprint to always be on, but when I toggle sprint on, my frame randomly decides to stop sprinting without me going anywhere near a button that would turn it off.

 

Point 2: Whatever magical energy force we use to hold us to the wall as we bound along it is apparently limitless, so why prey tell does this energy putter out when we are taxing it far less by simply clinging to the wall? When we are bounding along, that cling force is taking a whole heap more stress as we push off against it, this makes no sense. Also, aim gliding is epic but it randomly lets me down and I don't like it. I know you want to put mods in the game for this new stuff, but I would appreciate if those mods were not tied to this new mystery form of stamina that lacks a UI representation and switch it to something that gives bonuses while aim gliding/latching. Could be defense bonus (on top of what we already get) could be offensive bonus, could make aim glide more crouching tiger hidden dragon than it already is with mobility bonus, could actually reduce that mobility to give you more control, but yeah, lets not keep stamina clinging to life by this one last thread.

To illustrate my earlier point, I switched shift's keybind to crouch and ctrl' to sprint, and suddenly parkour 2.0 (which is all about dat bullet jump) has become far more useable, though now sprinting/rolling has become a pain with the switch up. I switched on "toggle sprint," in options but it keeps going off after... I dunno, performing too many maneuvers? And no, not from accidentally turning it off trying to roll, I barely ever roll but was just making note that when I have the occasion to roll now it is far more out of the way in this configuration than it was.  So yeah, bullet jump should be attached to sprint, not to crouch, that way all the high speed maneuvers are attached to the high speed button (duh) crouch is for crouching and sliding, and if we remove this new gawdawful glide/cling stamina, we've got perfect parkour 2.0.

[Fullmetal_Underpants]

(pulled from my own feedback thread, this is compiled feedback from a group of veterans and intermediary players.)

 

Parkour 2.0 ~ the idea is great, many of us like it, a lot of us don't and it's not hard to see where the problems lie within it. given reasons for doing it vary in validity, i agree, it very much opens up the wonderful world of melee options when you do not link melee to movement. however this is by no means easier to do than it used to be. so many hand cramps since it begun, but we will get used to it.
 

Exilus adaptors ~ as far as i'm concerned these relate to movement 2.0 directly.

can we please have this item allow us to polarize the slot that it unlocks considering it costs 2 forma to build and as it stands will generally cost players at the very least one more forma to keep the same build and the mod that goes there? if not, please make forma an 11 hour build

we're getting to a point where every time you say you're going to make the game LESS grindy, it gets MORE grindy and this is a prime example of how.

 

Rush -  as a mod does not seem to affect the animation speed of anything you do in parkour actions, if it did, it would be nice.
Wall hop(vertical) - glorious, never change this please.
Wall hop(horizontal) - it works, but it seems a bit goofy, speed of this action seems reasonable.
Wall Latch - needs to last a base of 12 seconds before mods. the idea is great, but it doesn't let you be quite as sneaky as it should.
Aim Glide - (camera angle/distance causes issues) perhaps when you're doing this, make your frame go alpha(partly transparent) or zoom the camera out so players can actually aim effectively while doing it.
Bullet Jump - (slow, but a great idea) the amount of ground covered by default without mods is fine, but the animation and the speed at which you go from point a to point be needs to be sped up at least 25%
Rocket jump - (slow, but amazing) same general opinion as bullet jump, works great, but needs to be a faster animation from point A to B.
Directional melee - moving your frame considerably more than it does now while in the air made it a lot easier to do its job in hitting airborn mobs, there's quite a bit less control in the air and a lot less control of these mobs when you're either out of ammo or trying to deal with such a foe with your melee weapon. we'd like to see this particular thing come back, but not to the degree it was, like, perhaps cap the midair melee launch distance to a 15-meter vaulting that can't be modified by attack speed.
 

[LifeNine]

I used to like parkouring in maps, but with the way things are now, interacting with the environment doesn't really seem to play much of a factor in parkouring. In parkour 1.0, I rarely coptered. Instead I will jump off boxes and pillars and such to move. In parkour 2.0, jumping off objects in the environment doesn't really help you travel. Jumping off boxes or other environment doesn't give much distance or height, so there is no reason to do it. Also, the jumping height seems to have been increased. This makes it harder than it already was to parkour off the boxes in Grineer maps.

 

With parkour 2.0, the movements seems to revolve around bullet jump now. Bullet jumps gives both height and forward velocity. On top of that it can be used anywhere. I'm using it so much as part of everyday travelling that it feels like I'm coptering in parkour 1.0. Arguably, parkouring, I'm talking about wall hopping here, is only useful for resetting Bullet jump/double jump.

 

Problems with wall hopping:

• 
  The delay to register a wall jump is too long. The warframe has to touch the wall for a noticeable amount of time before jumping. For small surfaces, like flag poles or similarly thin objects, it is impossible to parkour off of them in parkour 2.0. In parkour 1.0, I can successfully parkour off those objects and get where I want to go.
  
• It depends a lot on where you aim. While this is good if you want to move along a big surface - it lets you move up, down, etc to correct your movement, but for small surfaces, where I tend to parkour most of the time, I end up jumping in the opposite direction of where I want to go. This illustration demonstrates what I mean. You have to aim away from the wall the moment the jump happens or else you end up going into the wall not away from it. This means you have to flick the mouse the moment before the jump happens to ensure that you stay close enough to the wall to register a jump, but are aiming away to jump away.

  

• There also the problem with hitting uneven surfaces. When wall hopping vertically, if there is a small bump in the wall, you can sometimes get stuck and not be able to go past it. You end up jump wall hopping forever while hitting your head.
  

 

Not sure if this is a bug, but I'm still able to wall hop while holding space. I do not need to keep pressing jump.

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

The two main issues I've seen that keep being mentioned is the lack of speed and the wall hop animation. I can't really speak on the wall hop since It doesn't really bother me but I'm gonna try and offer a solution for the momentum issue.

Since, as of right now, the double jump seems to be the least useful aspect of the new movement system(it's outclassed in every way by bullet jump) I'd suggest the following changes.

 

1. Create a stat that adds additional velocity to all of the parkour maneuvers that can be increased through interaction with the movement mechanics.

 

2. Bullet jump and double jump each get one use per airborne phase. Including after a regular jump off of the ground and after a wall hop.

 

3. Allow sprinting to gradually accelerate over time to a cap of maybe 150%. performing a bullet jump during a sprint will grant additional velocity based on the current sprint speed.

 

4. Performing a Double jump increases the velocity stat of all parkour maneuvers. This velocity would continue to stack on subsequent uses of the double jump, but the additional stacked velocity will drain under certain circumstances:

 

-performing a heavy landing: resets additional velocity to 0
-performing a air to ground roll: reduces additional velocity to 0. Maintans maximum sprint speed.
-sliding: reduces additional velocity over time. The drainage should start slow and increase exponentially.
-wall hop: Preserves additional velocity on first hop per surface. Additional hops drain additional velocity by 25%.
-Aim glide: Preserves additional velocity.
-Wall latch: Drains additonal velocity over time. Drains at a set rate and should drain faster than sliding overall.

-Jogging/Idle: Drains additonal velocity over time. Drains at extremely fast rate.

 

With these changes It would make double jump a little more relevant to movement and It allows players to increase thier speed though chaining together each mechanic effectively. The mods currently affecting parkour velocity can increase the additional velocity granted per double jump in addition to their current effects.

 

Some additional changes that might make people happy would be:

 

A) Level out bullet jump so that aiming forwards will make you bullet jump forwards instead of slightly upwards.

 

B) Increase the base velocity of bullet jump by somewhere between 50-100%. The current base velocity is super slow by normal warframe standards.

 

That's my two cents for now.

Edited August 2, 2015 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[Wakeoflove]

To illustrate my earlier point, I switched shift's keybind to crouch and ctrl' to sprint, and suddenly parkour 2.0 (which is all about dat bullet jump) has become far more useable, though now sprinting/rolling has become a pain with the switch up. I switched on "toggle sprint," in options but it keeps going off after... I dunno, performing too many maneuvers? And no, not from accidentally turning it off trying to roll, I barely ever roll but was just making note that when I have the occasion to roll now it is far more out of the way in this configuration than it was.  So yeah, bullet jump should be attached to sprint, not to crouch, that way all the high speed maneuvers are attached to the high speed button (duh) crouch is for crouching and sliding, and if we remove this new gawdawful glide/cling stamina, we've got perfect parkour 2.0.

Yeah... upon further playing, connecting bullet jump to sprint also needs to not require a discrete press of the button before each press of jump, holding down sprint and pressing jump needs to trigger it, cause all this shift (my new crouch) mashing I've been doing to get the jumps to activate is also mashing my pinkie. It also may be worth revisiting the idea posted earlier in the thread that sprint be the default setting and we press the "walk" button to either toggle modes or hold it down as long as we're stifling ourselves for. As I recall, this parkour update was supposed to reduce the hand fatigue, and thus far, my pinkie is either getting buff as frack or it's heading for a splint, not sure which one, but neither sounds all that great.

[MithrilDragon]

No more stamina

One of the best things to come out of Parkour 2.0.  

 

No more rolling after a jump

This will save alot of off-edge respawning.

 

No more hand-springing over handrails

Finally!  It was so annoying not being able to jump over a handrail you were standing close to.

 

No more accidental backflips while climbing boxes

Just as annoying as the handrails.

 

No more coptering

I actually like this change.  Allows for more reflexive use of spin attack and I no longer over-shoot.

 

Double Jump

Very useful.

 

Aim Glide

Haven't used this much in missions, but can see it being useful for crossing large gaps.  Can't help thinking this was inspired by Max Paine's Shootdodging.

 

Wall Grab

Haven't had much need to attempt this in missions, which is a good thing since it doesn't always work.  Maybe I just need more practice.

 

Wall Hopping vs. Wall Running

Aesthetically wall running looks better and kicking off the wall was less complicated.  I'm pretty sure the main reason for the switch is hopping made it easier to allow direction change without confusing inputs. 

 

Bullet Jump vs. Slide Jump

Slide jump felt faster and had a better flight arc.  Neither one does well on uneven terrain.

 

Bullet Jump vs. Directional Aerial Melee

I preferred polearms before D.A.M.  I loved polearms during D.A.M.  I will continue to love polearms, but I do NOT like bullet jump.  Bullet jump is too slow, too weak, less accurate, and harder to pull off while airborne.

[BubblesTheBlob]

Wall latching could be potentially improved by allowing the player to crouch and still stay connected to the wall. You could aim bullet jumps a little bit better this way because you don't need to hit space the exact moment you hit control just to keep yourself from falling too much. Also, it seems to have mechanical support for this (bullet jumping off walls is an actual thing), but you still fall off the wall when you try to crouch.

 

This would allow for a little bit better flow in this regard and open it up slightly more to people who aren't well-practiced with keyboard input timing and quick parkour movements.

[SlipShot111]

They gave that new mod slot for reason to make your parkour faster and better

[mostlyerror]

For all those who are saying that Parkour 2.0 is slow, how is this slow to you?? >>

 

 

It seems about the same as the old melee system's speed, minus coptering and I personally never used pure Jump+crouch+meleeeeeeeeee coptering as didn't a ton of other people.

 

The above maneuver was executed by first bullet jumping while aiming a little above straight ahead, then immediately aim gliding, then pressing crouch+jump for a mid-glide double jump then immediately crouching and aiming which actually makes you gain speed if done correctly allowing you to traverse a large distance without having to touch the ground, similar to coptering.

 

Please watch this great tutorial on how to use Parkour 2.0 effectively and try to chain bullet jumps into aim glides into front rolls and so on and you will be moving faster and more precisely than with the old Parkour system.

 

 

Thank you very much for posting this, keep in mind people he's had this system for less than 2 days!

 

I'd love to see a coptering video after the first 2 days of play....it would be S#&$e.

 

This is a great example of having reliable, reasonable to very fast mobility around the map.

 

If you hate it now and think DE sucks, you are a fool. If you hate it after using it a month so be it DE should listen, but no one understands the depth of a change like this within 36 hours, that is silly.

 

So don't be an &#! for a month, then QQ if you still hate it. But be honest that you don't have the skill to assess it yet, within 36 hours, because not accepting that would make you arrogant at best.

 

Thanks DE, for a crazy fun system, super dynamic, that is very appreciated.

 

Chris

[Guest khk6]

Im going to miss coptering. It was fast and had much more freedom. Copter, latch on a wall, then jump -> copter/air melee in direction, all with super fast speed was a pleasure to do. 

 

Parkour 2.0 requires some skill to keep the forward momentum, and is ineffective in tighter or smaller map because of this, yet, its slower than coptering.

It also needs much more button pressing too. My fingers are getting sore quickly since it came out.

 

Its ok in larger maps though. Coptering did look silly too.