Does A Warframe Exist That's Worse Then Ember?

[Tatersail]

Ember is perhaps "the most damaging frame" in team play because of the augment mod Fireball frenzy, this can add over 1700% bonus damage to other players guns, and some ability's when combined with Accelerant.

Over 2 million sustained DPS is possible with ember. Which is just nuts.

 

A ember/mesa or ember/Excal can casually clear 100 min/wave  survival/defense as the damage source.

 

She is also reasonably damaging on her own in the correct situation and when using 4x Corrosive projection, as this removes scaling armor and adds 25% damage. This still requires multiple forma and corrupted mods to be considered "effective" and this consumes more energy than other frames using similar effects.  (eg 4xCP, Ember/trinity is just as effective if not more effective than Mesa/trinity/Frost)

 

 

 

I can understand peoples feeling about ember, because if a relatively new or unimaginative player simply sticks on some random mods, and runs about with WOF in a high level void mission it is depressing to see how ineffective you can be, compared to the accessibility of other frames where any mods and rolling your face across the keyboard wipes the map.

 

Imo Ember needs easier modding remove the duration/range/power/efficiency conflict that no other frame has to deal with , Armor removal on accelerant and some change to how the AI handles fireblast.

 

I also think there is an EPEEN issue, with alot of the buffing frames.

I think bonus damage from skills like Sonar, Accelerant, Elemental augments, Roar ETC should show up on the BUFFING FRAMES DAMAGE DEALT

this would help people feel they are contributing more and stop people judging buff frames with low personal damage.

 

 

Bottom line, Ember is by no means "the worst frame" in a team game.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Tatersail

[Omnimorph]

Laughing at people who say Ember, Mag or Saryn are bad frames. 

 

None of the frames are so much worse than others that they're in any way unviable in any content up to 40/40.  They're all good at what they do, just different, to suit different playstyles and preferences.

 

Not all frames in the game are designed as high damage frames, but that's to be expected.

[Hypernaut1]

 WoF - Low duration WoF works just fine; anything over 6 seconds or so is unnecessary since the "casting speed" buff that added an extra second for free.  Most Ember veterans end up canceling WoF early anyway to save energy; applications for long-duration WoF are relatively niche.

thank you for stating that. WoF with a toggle and short duration isnt as big of a setback as some make it out to be. Most of the time im just recasting it anyway for its x5 blast. For me WoF is more about CC than dealing damage. With its augment, you get a knock down. Combined with her other skills and primary, WoF can be very effective for my playstyle regardless of duration.

When I play around with my high duration builds, I find that I rarely use the entire duration unless im rushing for exit and just feel like dealing damage in my wake.

An effective ember is too mobile to NEED a long duration with WoF. It seems like people would prefer if Ember could cast WoF indefinitely and incinerate all enemies with OP damage as she runs around. This wouldnt be bad, but it would make WoF a dumb fire and forget ult.

[RealPandemonium]

when using 4x Corrosive projection, as this removes scaling armor and adds 25% damage.

4x CP adds bonus damage?  Explain this?

Edited September 22, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[SourTaco]

When are people going to realize no warframe is bad. . .

[Autongnosis]

4x CP adds bonus damage? Explain this?

Eh, not exactly. The bonus damage is tere from the beginning (+25% vs Cloned Flesh) but with 4 CPs you ignore the armour modifiers on top of ignoring the reduction, only the CF gets calculated for the actual damage.

So yeah that +25% is still there but before it wa also subjected to armour modifiers and to the amour reduction, while with 4 CPs is not.

[VoidNomade]

Ember is perhaps "the most damaging frame" in team play because of the augment mod Fireball frenzy...

 

Psssshhhhhhttttt !!!!!!!

 

Now DE will see it. =(

[AzureTerra]

Vaubans Bounce needs to be changed as bullet jump makes it redundant

 

I take it you haven't seen a Vauban keep a room locked down for 30 odd mins with just bounce pads

[PapaFragolino]

Ember is not bad, she totally is viable, she's just useless.

[RealPandemonium]

Ember is not bad, she totally is viable, she's just useless.

I think being able to play a fun video game is useful.  

[PapaFragolino]

I think being able to play a fun video game is useful.  

 

You having fun doesn't help the rest of the squad, concreteness does.

[vQuality]

Not arguing if she's bad or not. Not what this is here for. Who do you feel is less desirable to have then Ember.

*THAN. *THAAAAAAAAAAAN goddamnit.

[Moghul]

Nekros has Shield of Shadows

Mag has the corpus

Hydroid has Pilfering Swarm

Limbo has invincibility

Rhino has his Stomp and general tankyness

 

Ember has her Accelerant. That's it.

[Autongnosis]

More on topic, to be honest except for a Limbo (chances are his pplayer won't understand any better than the average Limbo PUGer) i would take any frame over Ember.

 

She is anything but straightforward and even in the perfect conditions she needs a player with a lot of experience to work prooperly. It's a risk i'm not that willing to take in my normal runs unless i know the player personally.

[Gladeus-Ex-Machina]

To answer the topic, I personally believe that Oberon, and perhaps even Banshee, aren't quite as good or bad as Ember. Though I confess I have not potatoed them, whereas potatoing Ember Prime is an easy decision.

On the subject of whether Ember is bad or useless, the answer is no. While she'd nowhere as directly exploitable as most frames, Ember is one of the few balanced frames because she is distinctly effected by all 4 power stat mods. She has no defensive abilities, relying solely on a brief stun window to kill enemies, but is highly mobile and versatile in damaging enemies, and is one of the few frames that can damage over a large area while mobile, and do so without direct line of sight.

Nonetheless, I've seen most people discouraged from using her because to make her effective, you have to run her as a massive glass cannon, usually at full range and efficiency, to even compare to other damage frames. Even with full efficiency you'll run out of energy, in which the Rakta weapons do help, especially since bringing a trinity always makes people jump to use a Mesa instead.

If I had to suggest ways to fix Ember, I'd make Fireball cause a noticeable explosion to knock enemies over, make Accelerant work for other fire variants in different ways but still increase damage somewhat, make Fire Blast modified by Power Range, and make World in Flames have a larger effective range and restore a small amount of energy when an enemy is incinerated.

Overall, at her peak, Ember is a good frame, definately not the best, and definately not the worse. And as others have said, there is no worst frame. Everything is good at something, even if somethings are better at other things.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Gladeus-Ex-Machina

[MrDar1o]

Any Warframe isn't bad.

[RealPandemonium]

You having fun doesn't help the rest of the squad, concreteness does.

Powers playing the game for you is boring for the rest of the team too.  When I walk into a mission with a group that CCs everything indefinitely, I just tab out and type more replies like this one because there's nothing for me to do in-game.  Deterministic, formulaic gameplay is not needed; everyone in the squad can contribute their own share of the work and have fun doing it.  If my teammates are inept, I can carry them with Ember as well as with anyone, often handicapped weapon-wise and only relying on powers.  So what's the problem?

 

To answer the topic, I personally believe that Oberon, and perhaps even Banshee, aren't quite as good or bad as Ember. Though I confess I have not potatoed them, whereas potatoing Ember Prime is an easy decision.

Definitely potato them and see what they're capable of.  Those two frames benefit immensely from having all the slots filled.  Their maxcases are noteworthy, particularly Oberon's resilience and Banshee's damage amplification.  

Edited September 22, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[tripletriple]

Chroma. He literally does nothing.

[(PSN)silent9_]

Ember is awesome.

[PapaFragolino]

Powers playing the game for you is boring for the rest of the team too.  When I walk into a mission with a group that CCs everything indefinitely, I just tab out and type more replies like this one because there's nothing for me to do in-game.  Deterministic, formulaic gameplay is not needed; everyone in the squad can contribute their own share of the work and have fun doing it.  If my teammates are inept, I can carry them with Ember as well as with anyone, often handicapped weapon-wise and only relying on powers.  So what's the problem?

 

With my Banshee I have both active and passive stuns, an enemy debuff and a sonar; with Ember you stun enemies with all of your abilities, end of the story.

 

You have fun with Ember? You can use her? Ok, that's good, but there is no reason to choose her instead of any other frame. She does nothing special other than buffing fire damage, a non combined elemental damage that most of the people won't even use in most of the cases.

[Autongnosis]

Thinking about it Oberon, Volt and Banshee are a no-go too unless i know the player. Too easy to F*** up and be useless or detrimental in those.

Basically there's this whole group of frames (ember, oberon, volt, limbo, banshee) requiring a finer playstyle i won't trust to someone i don't know. No priorities though.

[Moghul]

Volt prime is my go-to melee frame

Oberon is my second best solo frame

Banshee is a ridiculous beast, very top tier

Limbo can just go invincible

As for ember... Like I said, apart from her short stun with her 2, she has nothing.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Moghul

[Cloud]

limbo (too much nerfed) and hydroid

[Findley563]

This is all subjective at best. There are people who can kick as much &#! on Ember as anyone else. If you don't like it, don't play it. But while I keep seeing posts that say X is worth 10 Embers, I am not seeing what you don't like or percieve as broken. If you want things addressed or fixed, then specifics are needed. Otherwise it's just your opinion, and unfortunately we have enough of those.

[Szaeravar]

Hydroid.
 

Where Oberon draws together a smattering of abilities for active, forward gameplay (damage dealing, control, good armor and health), Hydroid has a smattering of support abilities. They both suffer for it: Oberon's abilities aren't as potent as they would be for a dedicated frame, but he can still stand on his own and do quite well. Hydroid however is a support frame that tries to be a healer, control, and farming frame--and he's worse than Trinity, Vauban, and Nekros all at the same time. I would never want a Hydroid in my group because he simply can't do anything well, and there's nothing he can do that I'd actually want.