Does A Warframe Exist That's Worse Then Ember?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Bullet Attractor would like a word with you.

Admittedly Shield Polarize outscales it, once you amass a solid mod base, but Bullet Attractor is your anti-heavy for quite a while.

As several Hyenas recently found out when swarmed by MR<10 players, their allies and their own bullets. :)

Granted, Mag's niche. But she owns her niche. Aside from Nullifiers.

Wasted potential if you ask me. Heavy killer, yes. But that aside useless. It kills frickin faster then the protection could even set in. Pull IS some kind of CC but ragdolling in your direction is FAR from controll or beein effective. And the ultimate, well...

Ya know what would fit her?

Pull-> proto function of what it is now, pullin enemys to your feet.

Bullet attractor-2 possibilitys

Eather-> bullet attractor stays for the duration, still offering cover after your mark dies and releases the remaining damage as "ae" at the end of the duration. (Immagine the bullets breaking out of theyr orbit kind of ae)

Or-> bullet attractor doesn't kill the target but cyrcles caught bullets around it. (Same effect at the end of the duration. Both takes would make it more effective.)

Crush-> deals finisher damage (cause, ya know, it's supposed to CRUSH your enemys, armor should actually deal more damage on applied preasure. Finisher damage is the most realistic take on that one.)

Mag is far from beein what she could be and owning a niche means nothing if you're USELESS outside.

Edited September 20, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Heidrek]

I would like for her ulti to be toggable or time related not both. It seems weird.

[Defendor]

I used to be in the "Ember sucks" camp, but now that I've put way too much time and resources (three forma and an Exilus adapter) into my Ember P, I think Ember is rather decent. She even kills things efficiently in T4, up until the second rot C, especially with a good crit weapon modded for fire damage. She's not a top tier frame, but power wise I'd put her well above Hydroid, Rhino and Nekros. Hydroid is unreliable and ineffective. Rhino is surprisingly squishy, but has one decent CC skill. Nekros has his thing as the loot monkey, but outside of that he's pretty lackluster.

As for Mag and Limbo, they can be very powerful in some situations, but I feel that they're more in need of fixes than Ember is. Their power sets are, simply put, terribly designed. They jump between being OP and nearly useless, which a well-designed frame shouldn't do.

Saryn and Equinox are also in the "powerful, but poorly-implemented" camp. Equinox especially could, with just a few tweaks, become a great frame instead of the Maim bot it currently is.

The only tweak Ember needs badly is turning WoF into a proper toggled ability. Like many others, I was very surprised DE didn't do it suring their last balance pass over Ember.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Defendor

[sappinmahsentry]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Only frame, I'd say is Limbo or Zephyr

Zephyr? You mean the frame that can be nigh-invincible to every single thing except explosions and and arc traps? Yeah that's worse than Ember.

[Pridesfury]

Considering ALL game missions and figuring each frame in every single situation only limbo holds less ground in the entirety  of the game both limbo and ember have their missions but as a whole they are both unvaluable compared to say zephyr who can do all content other than raids equally

[1nSaNiTy69]

IMO Valkyr is probably the worst frame to play, so boring, and not really a team player .. cept for her ability to revive,

all other frames rock the world 

 

and I'm not saying Valkyr sucks just saying she is most boring to use!

 

Again IMO!!

[(PSN)abb12355]

I was about to reply to the warframe needing reworks topic, and I had a thought that I decided probably warranted a different topic. I was trying to think of a Warframe that is, as they are currently used, in a worse spot then Ember is. I found myself gasping at straws. Certainly none of the newer frames, of them Limbo is probably the weakest, and he still has better options then Ember does. Hydroids is better then Ember, I'd say, and even with Parkor 2.0 Zeyphrs 2 and 4 alone are enough to make her more valuable then Ember.

Saryn maybe? Is she worse then Ember?

No frame is bad, you have yet to realize that.

[Shry0b]

From what I read, it seems that the only Warframe worse than Ember is people who can't play it.

For example, people who think that Mag is good only because she has Shield Polarize. Guess they never thought of using her outside of Corpus missions, and maybe casting sometimes Bullet Attractor against heavier enemies, instead of going full Iron Skin + Soma Prime;

It's kind of cool when 90% of your hits are crits without even aiming at the weak spot. Even Crush has a good niche, allowing you and your teammates few seconds of breathing. Not going to talk about Pull. It's fine.

Hydroid is way much better than people think. I used him plenty of times (Without Pilfering Swarm) And he has very good  CC capabilities.

I'd only tweak Tempest Barrage a little, since increasing Hydroid's range makes the barrage less effective: the blasts will be too far from each other. Not counting that when casting from inside a tunnel the barrages will hit the borders of the door. That aside, it's just about playing him a lot and understanding how his abilities have sinergy. He's misunderstood.

It's the same as Mesa: she's not only "Press 4": try to take her to a T4 and keep using Shattering Shield with Intensify: GG 95% damage reduction.

 

So I don't really think there's someone worse than Ember, which isn't bad at all. It's more about liking the Warframe and trying to understand what it can do and what it can't do, what kind of missions his / Her abilities shines and what kind of missions you've got to avoid using her / him.

 

It's not about "IMHO" And so on, it's more about you (You in general) Didn't play it a lot. One T4 isn't enough.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Can you qualify your statement, OP?

Because I've seen a forma'd Pro-Ember do WORK with the right loadout.

But hey, some people wanna roll with 100 restores and sit in one place and hit the "peacemaker" 4 button and for them that's the standard.

[(PSN)GallonOfSkimMilk]

Oberon for sure is worse and hydroid is on par with her mediocrity.

[Pridesfury]

Can you qualify your statement, OP?

Because I've seen a forma'd Pro-Ember do WORK with the right loadout.

But hey, some people wanna roll with 100 restores and sit in one place and hit the "peacemaker" 4 button and for them that's the standard.

she can do work until lv 32 hits and then she is nothing more than a half baked CC machine however given she has a trin at the helm she can build for blind rage and triple her damage to work up to about lv 60-70 due to the massive effect she gets from power strength given it effects both base damage and accelerant damage

 that said hydroid and zephyr both have ults that deal pretty damn good consistent CC+damage and both of them deal more on the damage department while hydroid deals more stable CC with zephyr dealing the stronger CC and come saryns rework we are expecting a duration based maisma which will completely put her under water as far as defense survival and interception missions go. But as far as damage/energy goes ember is bottom tier and as far as CC reliability goes she is still only mid tier given her ult doesnt keep everything locked down permanently like say prism or bastille does still better than say crush (lul) but she needs tlc she should have been the first rework deserved long before frost who was already in a semi healthy place and i cant disagree with saryn given her p4/2w playstyle but ember doesnt even have that nobody will ever request an ember in chat.

[DrakeRaids]

Can you qualify your statement, OP?

Because I've seen a forma'd Pro-Ember do WORK with the right loadout.

But hey, some people wanna roll with 100 restores and sit in one place and hit the "peacemaker" 4 button and for them that's the standard.

 

I apologize if I'm unclear. I'm not attempting to raise a discussion on how best to utilize her strengths. That's a valid topic, but there have been a lot about that. Nor am I (directly) focusing on Ember's weakness. My question is what other Warframe's that you feel are less effective at Ember. Would you rather have a Nekros in a mission with you, or an Ember? Would you rather have a Rhino? That's what I'm asking here.

 

The most common replies seem to be geared towards Hydroid and Limbo, which seems to be the ones people point at and go, "I would rather have Ember then either of those." which is interesting. Mag seems to be in line as well, though thats more....

 

Polarizing.

Edited September 21, 2015 by DrakeRaids

[RealPandemonium]

Depends on the dituation, obviously, buy I think Maim Equinox may outshine her.

Maim is similar to a weaker WoF and can be saved up to do room-clearing nukes, but overall Equinox is not outputting remotely as much damage as Ember is.  I hope they fix Mend eventually so that it's actually fun to use.  

[TheBrsrkr]

The ignorance in this post shows you have absolutely 0 experience with these frames. Continue playing your Rhino

Oi! Don't lump me in with that guy!

[(PSN)abb12355]

Oi! Don't lump me in with that guy!

lol sorry about that, I don't think rhino is nooby, I just think he is popular at the moment.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Zephyr has godlike survivability and mobility, and her ulti does a lot of sustained damage (up to 40k in a span of 20 seconds)

That makes her absolutely better than half the frames in the game.

 

40k is a gross exaggeration. tornados do a tick of damage once per 4 seconds. A base tornado does 120 damage per tick. Even with max power strength the initial tick does around 1200 damage with the ticks being 274 damage every 4 seconds. If an enemy can even stay in a tornado for the entire 20 seconds it deals another 1300 damage.

 

With 5 tornados the most damage it can do total is about 10k. And thats assuming the enemies keeps their hands feet he'd body and legs inside the vehicle (tornado) at all times.

 

Still more damage then ember thou

[ZzVinniezZ]

limbo because trolling, at least Ember is good enough to kill infested

[BrazilianJoe]

I would say Limbo and Hydroid are bottom of the barrel. 

[Hypernaut1]

Ember is very viable in all content. If she is the "worst" WF, that just means that DE has done an EXCELLENT job in creating good frames.

IMO there are too many easy-mode frames.

[RealPandemonium]

40k is a gross exaggeration. tornados do a tick of damage once per 4 seconds. A base tornado does 120 damage per tick. Even with max power strength the initial tick does around 1200 damage with the ticks being 274 damage every 4 seconds. If an enemy can even stay in a tornado for the entire 20 seconds it deals another 1300 damage.

 

With 5 tornados the most damage it can do total is about 10k. And thats assuming the enemies keeps their hands feet he'd body and legs inside the vehicle (tornado) at all times.

 

Still more damage then ember thou

Tornado hits every second, not every 4 seconds.  Furthermore, the wiki page is out of date; it doesn't take Transient Fortitude into account (I have since fixed it.)  It's 341 damage per second with max power strength.  341 * 20 = 6820.  The initial tick does 1936.  Total damage can be up to 8756 per twister before resists (remember that you can change the Tornadoes' element, but the initial ticks will be Magnetic damage.)

 

With 5 twisters that's up to 43780 total damage, but because the power only spawns 4 twisters, the actual potential total is 35024.

 

No one will run a max strength build (284%) normally.  Max efficiency builds can reach 212% power strength; the total potential for this build is 26144 damage, or 6536 damage per twister, per target.

 

 

Ember does way, way, more damage than Zephyr, though.  With the same 212% power strength and a cast of Accelerant, just Fire Blast's flame wave (no ring damage) will deal 12640 total damage, and one tick of WoF will deal 20225 total damage.

 

Your entire post was a misleading mud-sling.  Posts like those are why so many people think everything in the game sucks and needs buffs.  

Edited September 21, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Ryjeon]

On Ember I tend to perform very well in terms of sheer damage output and crowdcontrol. I've taken the time to learn Ember and optimize my play with her. I find I give my best performances on Ember while also finding her the most engaging to play.

I really don't think there is a frame that is worse for everybody. The frames are supposed to support different playstyles and approaches to the games content. To that end I have found Ember to be the best frame for me due to her flexibility, versatility, and overall tempo of play. I don't enjoy playing Mesa and Banshee with their rooted abilities, or Hydroid and Zephyr with their finicky ultimates. They just don't fit me. But I'm happy that other players enjoy them because that promotes diversity. It would be boring to play the same exact comp in the same mission every day.

Myself and others who enjoy Ember can bring stellar results while also having fun our chosen frame.

Bring the player, not the class.

[(XBOX)RIOTx420]

Ember and limbo are probably the lowest frames on the totem pole right now ,

I really want to see ember get a rework

[Hypernaut1]

Ember and limbo are probably the lowest frames on the totem pole right now ,

I really want to see ember get a rework

i wouldnt mind Ember being looked at as long as they dont make her into an easy to use Nuke-Frame (which can easily happen with a frame thats suppose to burn everything) I think its important that they maintain a few frames with a high skill ceiling.

 

i love the fact that i have to think constantly on my feet when i play with Ember. It makes good runs extremely satisfying. i dont need her to solo t4 to 80 minutes. 

 

The idea that she is the "worst" frame is ludicrous. Maybe she is just the frame that takes the most skill to use. None of her abilities are useless, they just arent as OP as many want them to be. With her augments, every skill provides CC, which is what scales nicely at all levels. fireball provides a stun while reloading, accelerant is a stun, fireblast clears an area, and WoF knocks down heavies. If you dont know how to use these effectively, its a problem with your playstyle more than anything.

[Kappa64]

Loki

[BrazilianJoe]

Loki

 

The Troll is strong on this one. 

 

--

 

Ember is not too bad to play, but is in need of another look into. The way I see it though, frames with mobility powers will be looked into first, because of the coming of Parkour 2.0.

 

She can do decent damage and is fun to play, even though she is not top-tier.