Some Kind Of Auction House? [Megathread]

[CarrotSalad]

What I'm about to write is just speculation going by what i witnessed in a few other MMO's that have a trading hall.

 

What happens in a *grind* game like Warframe. if you get bots buying out the mid to high tier items from the games trading hall. From a Warframe perspective it would be*mods like streamline/serration/intensify etc. Using those mods to outfit their bots for high level void farming. Then reselling the prime parts. Ban waves of bots just drives the inflation even higher as when the bots are remade they just re-buy the mods listed. It might even devalue prime parts and prices entirely. It just makes it becomes easier for someone with a few virtual clients to outfit thier bots and start the farm fest.

 

There's another game I'm playing at the moment where this scenario is playing out and the GM's are losing the battle badly. Warframe is in dire need of a better trading system. But it also needs to ensure we have a healthy economy otherwise trading may as well not exist.

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

You're assuming (a) everyone will list their parts at the same time...

 

 

An Auction House trading system with items listed for sale 24/7 makes this much more possible then the current chat based trading system that is very much "in the moment."  Compared to the current trading system, an auction house guarantees an increased supply.  Also if its easier to trade, you are going to have a lot more traders which will also increase supply.  An increased supply will help to drive prices down.  Supply and Demand rules of commerce.

 

 

High prices only benefit the seller, but when nobody can afford or is willing to buy their stuff at the prices they charge, they either adapt or fail.

 

 

 

Sure high prices benefit the seller.  However under the current trade system, really good low priced deals can also be found by the buyer.  The Auction House will result in all prices stabilizing in a narrow range.  The ability for a trader to buy low and sell high will mostly disappear.  The ability for a buyer to find an undermarket low price will mostly disappear.  An auction house will suck all the fun out of trading. 

[Judgebanks]

1. No auction houses.

 

2. You not being able to sell something is a matter of your personal luck and skill. Do not try to sell something that no one wants to buy- and you will have no issues. Most stuff everyone already has or does not want.

 

3. NO AUCTION HOUSES. They kill economies.

Runescape please leave.

 

 

No reselling and call it a day.

[KiteoHatto]

Individual hardcore traders are just afraid of losing their profits right now, this current system really rewards you for the effort you put in while flipping items and traders can take advantage of people who aren't hardcore traders and don't know the "current reasonable" price.

 

I guess traders somehow feel special because not everyone can trade well as not everyone has the patience to sit in trade chat 24/7 and look for deals/take advantage.

 

If the auction system is introduced then a lot more people would be able to become traders and the "average reasonable" price of everything will be easily seen, thus taking out the advantage current traders rely upon on making plat due to people not knowing prices easily, especially with such varying prices on pc and consoles.

 

 

As for the whole "inflation" argument, it happens with time anyway.

 

At this point ANYTHING is better than the current trade chat system.

Edited August 4, 2015 by kiteohatto

[(PSN)RocketPunch1221]

1. No auction houses.

2. You not being able to sell something is a matter of your personal luck and skill. Do not try to sell something that no one wants to buy- and you will have no issues. Most stuff everyone already has or does not want.

3. NO AUCTION HOUSES. They kill economies.

Opinion or fact. If fact, provide source and explaination.

[Stratego89]

Runescape please leave.

 

 

No reselling and call it a day.

Please don't use that game to compare to this one... I beg you.

 

No- No auction houses period.

[Ezariel]

1. No auction houses.

 

2. You not being able to sell something is a matter of your personal luck and skill. Do not try to sell something that no one wants to buy- and you will have no issues. Most stuff everyone already has or does not want.

 

3. NO AUCTION HOUSES. They kill economies.

 

Whoot? You mean, spammed trade channel and annoying Dojo trade is better than clear and simple Action House? No! Action House is one of those things, what make game better and simple! When you uuse AH, you have clear situation. See all prices, see what, when, how much, see everything. You save much time!

 

Now on spammed trade channel you cant see anything because you see only rattling letters all time. Besides many scammers and noobs these days who try seel other something for to high price. Now Warframe is a paradise for scammers and cunning bussinesmans...

 

time for change! 

 

Give us a good Action House!

 

Thats my opinion.

[Stratego89]

Opinion or fact. If fact, provide source and explaination.

I would love to direct your attention to the great economic collapse in TF2 that occurred when Steam Trade Offers/Community Marketplace went live- that it still hasn't recovered from yet.

[Stratego89]

Whoot? You mean, spammed trade channel and annoying Dojo trade is better than clear and simple Action House? No! Action House is one of those things, what make game better and simple! When you uuse AH, you have clear situation. See all prices, see what, when, how much, see everything. You save much time!

 

Now on spammed trade channel you cant see anything because you see only rattling letters all time. Besides many scammers and noobs these days who try seel other something for to high price. Now Warframe is a paradise for scammers and cunning bussinesmans...

 

time for change! 

 

Give us a good Action House!

 

Thats my opinion.

No. You THINK it would make things easy- but that's because you're not predicting what would actually happen. There are millions of players in this game. For every single prime part, mod, or any other tradeable item, there are hundreds of thousands to millions of copies of it. If everyone can suddenly post it up in an auction house- that means that every single copy of every item (potentially) would be sitting there waiting to be bought. The problem is- we get more of each piece individually than each of us needs (1). This means that if an auction house happens- an insane overload of parts will be put into the auctionhouse by players- of which only a very very tiny percent will ever sell- leaving every other player who wasn't the lucky one to get it sold before buyers ran out sitting there with no way whatsoever to make plat anymore other than buying it. The current system allows us to get great deals when buying or selling depending on who we find and when, and who else is online selling/buying the same item. If an auction house is implemented- the prices will come to have a "standard" that no one will vary from at all because there's no reason not to- since there would be an extreme amount of surplus stock and very very few if any buyers (note what I said before) prices would drop to basically 0 since there would be no competition.

 

EDIT: Also- you cannot scam in this game. You can trick a person into believing something is worth more than it is for a quick profit- but that is not scamming that is sharking. In the end sharking is no one's fault but the buyer who didn't take the time to price check and learn how things work.

 

In hopes that anyone would come by and see this a simple explanation of the issue with an auction house in warframe is bolded and italicized below.

 

Everyone seems to be under the impression that an auction house exists as a good way to get rid of your items- it's not. Auction houses exist to get the buyers the best deal possible. When everyone and their cousin at the auction house is selling 20 of the same item, and there's only a couple people that walk in and want to buy it, no one makes a profit selling and the buyer walks out like they just robbed a bank.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Stratego89

[Hypernaut1]

I think many people posting don't understand that prices won't just drop so you can buy everything cheap. This won't make life easier for you. You have this false fantasy that sellers will rush to undercut each other. That's not what will happen.

Only useless junk will plummet. Rare Valuable items will SKYROCKET! See, this is how it works. If Ash systems go easily for 50p, then someone will sell it for 70p. Why? Because if the part is rare enough, ash systems at 50p will go fast and soon there won't be anymore. What will be left is that systems at 70p. Someone WILL buy that eventually. When someone buys that at 70p, other sellers notice and then list their systems at 70p. 70p Ash systems sell out just as fast and all that is left is ash systems listed at 100p. This price will climb until players with lots of plat stop buying or systems become common enough that buyers begin to hold out for a cheaper price.

Sellers will ALWAYS be greedy and try to get the most plat. They won't sell for lower if they know someone with plat will buy it for more when supply runs out.

This is how items rise to astronomical prices in other games. All it takes is for one person to say "let me see if this goes for 300p" they wait and wait, if item becomed rare and it sells- you have a rush of sellers trying to emulate that success by holding out for big payday.

So all of you who want an auction house to get rare items cheaper may actually be shooting yourself in the foot. You won't be competing with other players with little to no plat. You'll be competing with whales that will easily buy what they want for 100p and sellers holding out for them.

With the current system, you can't really see what's getting sold. Sellers only have a vague idea if Frost Prime sells at 300p, or how long they have to wait to sell it at that price. It's harder to compare your success to others.

Edit: one more thing. That seller going against the grain and still selling his Ash systems for super cheap? Most likely a voracious trader will snap that deal up in a heartbeat and later re list it at a higher price to make a profit.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Yes, please.

[Mad_Keith]

I would sorta want a Aution house or at least a more refine loot system now excuse me while I farm 15 Nerodes for two weeks.

[Ezariel]

I understand many pppl are just idiots. But is not reason to don't give a CHOICE rest of ppl, who wants it, like me.

 

I ust wanna have choice, and simple trade system. I like play, and don't like wasting of time for  staring on trade channel and try buy/seel something in right moment. I undestand someone like it, because they just search a sucker for trick on platin, but i just wanna trade sometimes in simple way.

 

Aciotn Haouse. I can log to game any moment, check it, buy something or giv something to seel and wait for seling. No pain, no hours of waiting and stare in  trade channel.

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

Nobody has really talked about this, but I don't think DE wants an Auction House either.

 

Seems like an Auction House could very well hurt DE's profits.  For instance with the Auction House, prices stabilize and probably go down because of the increased supply.  Then it becomes likely people can easily and cheaply buy their gear in the Auction House instead of buying it from the Warframe store.  DE's gotta make money too.

[Cubewano]

I understand many pppl are just idiots. But is not reason to don't give a CHOICE rest of ppl, who wants it, like me.

 

I ust wanna have choice, and simple trade system. I like play, and don't like wasting of time for  staring on trade channel and try buy/seel something in right moment. I undestand someone like it, because they just search a sucker for trick on platin, but i just wanna trade sometimes in simple way.

 

Aciotn Haouse. I can log to game any moment, check it, buy something or giv something to seel and wait for seling. No pain, no hours of waiting and stare in  trade channel.

so you want to ruin this games economy so shopping can be more convenient for you is what i'm getting here. 

[RedDirtTrooper]

Auction houses are phenomenal. The only people that get hurt are the ones taking advantage of others. It puts everyone on a fair level, with no more people getting ripped off for 4 or 5 times the value to something just because they don't know better and/or can't haggle well. Far from hurting economies, it stabilizes them.

[Ezariel]

so you want to ruin this games economy so shopping can be more convenient for you is what i'm getting here. 

 

About what economy you saying? Where u have this economy, man, wake up. There is no ingame economy. Economy making sellers/buyers itself. They dictate prices. AH don't change this prices and RNG. But AH can eliminate much scammers, and let ppl save time. I don;t care about players, for which the trade is game in game. For me trade is clear serviceable. When I need something, i trading.

 

I have life except game and if I can save more time for my life and play, instead waste it for trading, i do it with real pleasure.

 

Where you see ruing economy abut shoping. Man, in real life you dont using bank accout? Dont go to shop sometimes? You have a CHOICE. You can go to shop, or try buy something on market. You dont like have a choice? If AH will be in game, no one force you to using it. Anyone still can trade normal way. Simple.

[MEsoJD]

 I'm all for auction houses. It hurts sellers trying to take advantage of ignorant buyers.

[RedDirtTrooper]

 I'm all for auction houses. It hurts sellers trying to take advantage of ignorant buyers.

and buyers trying to take advantage of ignorant sellers, usually so they can flip and try to take advantage of an ignorant buyer.

[Gadeon]

No thanks after playing many mmo's seeing how botters and gold buyers ruined those game with auction house. I don't wanna see it happen here too.

 

If you're have problem with selling things ingame use the trading post forum much better.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Gadeon

[Cubewano]

About what economy you saying? Where u have this economy, man, wake up. There is no ingame economy. Economy making sellers/buyers itself. They dictate prices. AH don't change this prices and RNG. But AH can eliminate much scammers, and let ppl save time. I don;t care about players, for which the trade is game in game. For me trade is clear serviceable. When I need something, i trading.

 

I have life except game and if I can save more time for my life and play, instead waste it for trading, i do it with real pleasure.

 

Where you see ruing economy abut shoping. Man, in real life you dont using bank accout? Dont go to shop sometimes? You have a CHOICE. You can go to shop, or try buy something on market. You dont like have a choice? If AH will be in game, no one force you to using it. Anyone still can trade normal way. Simple.

In any kind of group/society to which there is even the slightest kind of market scheme there is an economy, it is the basis of value for any goods and resources. And as of the moment warframe has a rather stable economy, sure the marketing scheme is somewhat inconvenient, but it is functional which is a lot more than what and auction house has to offer.

 

The current setup for warframe makes it so there is only ever a limited supply of any produce at any period of the day, because the seller must be present and actively advertising his wares for it to be available, which is good since warframe is a supply rich game (literally anything outside event exclusives is owned by the thousands throughout the entire playerbase), this maintains a somewhat balanced supply demand realtionship. With an auction house the supply is always at max, so the only way it can properly function is if the economy its present in has a balanced supply to demmand ratio on its own, un-inhibited, which just isn't the case here. With warframe the supply far exceeds the demand, so the auction house would only function in a way that it diminishes the value of all materials severely which is just bad for any economy. 

 

So introducing an auction house to warframe would do this game no favor, only harm, and saying you don't have to use won't change the effects it has on the economy at large. 

 

note : i'm sorry if i couldn't address all of your commentary directly but most of your post is difficult to understand, i'm assuming english isn't your primary language

[Denninja]

guuuuyyysss nooooo, streamlining a community interaction is gonna kill the economy!

[Judgebanks]

guuuuyyysss nooooo, streamlining a community interaction is gonna kill the economy!

Heh, I like you.

 

Seriously though, anti-auctioneers as a whole remind me of a certain group of people.

[Lost_Cartographer]

There is nothing stable about an economy where no one knows the freaking prices of anything.  Let's save the BS and look at the facts:

 

1: Auction houses put everyone's asking price right there in plain view.  THAT's where a stable economy comes in.  No longer is a buyer poking around hoping to find the guy that will sell a part for 30p instead of 80p like another guy selling the same item.  These two sellers are only selling at different prices because they A: don't know the actual market average price and B: one guy's RNG gave him a ton, another guy got only this one after X many runs.  This is called a perfect information economy.  The reason most game economies fail ISN'T the AH... it's because demand has plummeted, mostly because the only things worth selling in most other games are consumables, and all things worth having soulbind on pick up.

 

2: There are still ways to limit trading potential.  Trades-per-day can STILL apply to an auction house, limiting any one person from buying or selling too much.  If One is going to list an item for sale, they're docking themselves one trade effective for either buying or selling (and only get that trade back if the item doesn't sell within X time frame.)  Unless you're running a dozen accounts and feeding them plat constantly, attempting to corner a market might net a loss in the long run.  I'd suggest a minor listing fee of 5-10p, but that might do more harm than good.

 

3:  Not every player has the time to spare towards sitting in their Liset with trade open spamming their wares with "offer" for a price tag hoping to snag a buyer.  An AH gives these players a chance to trade for platinum without cutting into play time.  

 

As long as people are always seeking prime parts and other desirables, the economy will keep chugging.  With or without an auction house, both a stable and unstable economy will completely collapse once no one desires more prime parts.  An auction house would cut out filtering through chatter and haggling (if you can call it that) over price.  If this were an open world sort of game, I'd be totally against a global AH and more in favor of player stalls, but since it's a lobby game, I'll opt for convenience over dealing with all the crazies in trade chat.  I just want a GD Ember Prime blueprint, not the whole freaking set.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Littleman88

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

For anyone interested and especially for those saying an Auction House won't hurt the economy and the game, check this article.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/18/diablo-3-finally-exorcises-its-demon-the-auction-house/

 

Basically to summarize, the Diablo Auction house had a huge supply of awesome items at very low prices.  This incentivized the player base to just buy items instead of grind them in the game.    The game became all stick and no carrot.  Last year Blizzard shuttered it's auction house for good.

 

A cautionary tale.