atom Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) hi. I'll start by saying that i'm playing and obviously love this game since open beta started and experimented with RNG and how it's applied along the years. Unfortunately i came to the following conclusions: the RNG layers that determine drops (resources, mods, mission rewards, parts, kubrows etc) are based on a seed which is applied per account, before everything else. that's why some players are always lucky while others are unlucky most of the time. all the drops in the mission are generated by the host so if the host has a good seed you get good drops if not you don't all the mission rewards (in endless missions at least) are generated at the start of the mission I think this system is very unfair and the reason why we see so many players complaining about the grind (grind can be fun when u get nice things, not fun when u get crap all the time) can i get some input from other players about their experience with how RNG works in warframe and maybe if it's possible to change it to a better system that is more fair overall? thank you an official explanation of how it works and is applied would be awesome but i don't dare hope for that one since DE have dodged questions like this in streams this is all just my theory based on my experience in game. time played (90d, 3h,29m). i'm hoping to get a better picture based on other player's time as well p.s. WTS tin foil 5p/sqm Edited October 16, 2015 by ..atom.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordOfScrugging Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Conspiracy theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeseni1 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Conspiracy theory? hehe - perhaps :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immolator1001 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Unfortunately i came to the following conclusions: the RNG layers that determine drops (resources, mods, mission rewards, parts, kubrows etc) are based on a seed which is applied per account, before everything else. that's why some players are always lucky while others are unlucky most of the time. Ya how did you come to this conclusion? Also I don't think you understand how the rng seeding works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiosGX Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I've felt this exact same way for a very long time. It reminds me of the Section ID system in the first Phantasy Star Online, in which the total hexidecimal value of your name was totaled up, and the last single digit was used to determine which section ID you had, which determined everything about your drop RNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrizzly Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 You may be on to something. When I was with a couple friends, we were trying to get the Imperator Vandal receiver yesterday cuz that was the last part they needed. We ran it so many times and didn't get it. The minute I stepped out and did one solo just to get some cores, I got the receiver. But I'm pretty sure what you're saying isn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Ya how did you come to this conclusion? Also I don't think you understand how the rng seeding works... well i do think he is not so far from the true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immolator1001 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 well i do think he is not so far from the true Ok why do you think that? Like does anyone have any evidence or reasoning? Or are we just going by gut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xardis Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If its true thats sad. But you came to a conclusion from somewhere. Post your reaserch and evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama_Sasha Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) I seen that happened during the time when Grandia Online was a thing when i worked as a moderator there. When a popular person gets, well, popular, the devs rig the drop value slightly to give them an edge. The reason for it have no idea, it was certainly unfair to say the least. But i doupt DE would follow this kind of logic, trust me. Edited October 16, 2015 by Cebius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiosGX Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 If its true thats sad. But you came to a conclusion from somewhere. Post your reaserch and evidence. Would you actually read through 100s of pages of drop rates per mission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 let's make it short , the more you play the less you have luck to get anything just start stop playing for like weeks , you ll see the daily reward and the loot geting better once you relog, no need to be Math pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elwenil Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 The Kool-Aid, stop drinking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War-Zone Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Not a conspiracy theory, do you actually think that these companies leave their profits to chance? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFatDrake Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Nyx Prime: 4 runs, all 4 parts perfectly. Fomorain event: 10 runs, 1 Imperator Vandal Barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafturtoemc Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Not true, I got trinity p system in the second run. 55run for Imperator Vandal...shhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyus Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 hi. I'll start by saying that i'm playing and obviously love this game since open beta started and experimented with RNG and how it's applied along the years. Unfortunately i came to the following conclusions: the RNG layers that determine drops (resources, mods, mission rewards, parts, kubrows etc) are based on a seed which is applied per account, before everything else. that's why some players are always lucky while others are unlucky most of the time. all the drops in the mission are generated by the host so if the host has a good seed you get good drops if not you don't all the mission rewards (in endless missions at least) are generated at the start of the mission I think this system is very unfair and the reason why we see so many players complaining about the grind (grind can be fun when u get nice things, not fun when u get crap all the time) can i get some input from other players about their experience with how RNG works in warframe and maybe if it's possible to change it to a better system that is more fair overall? thank you DE does alter loot tables drop rates per account, see the following warframe wiki page: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Seer, specifically this portion: "The Seer's components used to have the same drop algorithm as the Cronus blueprint; every subsequent visit to Tolstoj used to decrease the drop rate. This has since been fixed." They have precedent and motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntyd1s Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I too believe that the random seeds have high probability to yield same results over and over per each account on each computer. I often got unusual stuff from other pc I logged in on and ALWAYS got platinum discount as daily login reward from switching pc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) i allways get the part i need to complete something from another host , that's a true story and i can here other ppl crying for parts i allready have and that drop all day long for me it's bound to account , it's just a state of things part rng+ account mitigation Edited October 16, 2015 by Tsoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Ya how did you come to this conclusion? Also I don't think you understand how the rng seeding works... i came to this conclusion after extensive playing. the seed for my account is not good. whenever i host or play solo i get crap (common mods, drops, resources, etc). if i join one of my lucky seed friend we always get the good stuff a couple of weeks ago i used a promo code for 2x resource drops and spent about 1000p on various things in the game. my luck totally changed for a week all across the board and i got rare resources from extractos daily (this after using them nonstop since they came out and maybe getting them 1/mo), getting rare mods in every mission, rare prime parts almost every time i ran a void mission (got almost all the new prime parts in less than 10 runs each). the "luck" change was drastic and consistent all across the board. my testing was done by playing the game for a long time and has shown me it's definitely not random or "luck" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff00n Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Over a long enough timeline, a pseudo-RNG seed does not affect the probability of any particular outcome. It just affects the exact *ordering* of outcomes. This ordering may include some "hot" spots and "cold" spots, but over a long enough timeline the math says they have to even out. Note that "long enough timeline" is important enough that I said it twice. So even if each player does have their own persistent RNG seed, everyone still gets the same drop rate in the long run. However, I highly doubt everyone has their own RNG seed. If they did then how would you reconcile four different persistent RNG seeds on any given drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Over a long enough timeline, a pseudo-RNG seed does not affect the probability of any particular outcome. It just affects the exact *ordering* of outcomes. This ordering may include some "hot" spots and "cold" spots, but over a long enough timeline the math says they have to even out. Note that "long enough timeline" is important enough that I said it twice. So even if each player does have their own persistent RNG seed, everyone still gets the same drop rate in the long run. However, I highly doubt everyone has their own RNG seed. If they did then how would you reconcile four different persistent RNG seeds on any given drop? long enough timeline yeah ... sure ... i got all the things eventually but i had to grind for them way more then my "lucky" friends did and that's the part i consider to be unfair and in need of imprevement what do you mean by four seeds? only the host's seed matters for drops Edited October 16, 2015 by ..atom.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsoe Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 idk but it really look obvious not being pure rng but that's for player that play a lot to notice it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkyPygmy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) DE does alter loot tables drop rates per account, see the following warframe wiki page: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Seer, specifically this portion: "The Seer's components used to have the same drop algorithm as the Cronus blueprint; every subsequent visit to Tolstoj used to decrease the drop rate. This has since been fixed." They have precedent and motive. I'm 99% sure that was a bug. It was a while ago. Either way it was fixed and DE have very little reason to rig the drop rates on a per account basis. Just look at the drop rates, They're more then enough to keep things behind grind walls. Hek, I have great RNG sometimes and horrible RNG at others, sometimes its more balanced. That one instance (assuming it is relevent) isn't sufficient to support OP's assertion or motive for DE going down that path. i came to this conclusion after extensive playing. the seed for my account is not good. whenever i host or play solo i get crap (common mods, drops, resources, etc). if i join one of my lucky seed friend we always get the good stuff a couple of weeks ago i used a promo code for 2x resource drops and spent about 1000p on various things in the game. my luck totally changed for a week all across the board and i got rare resources from extractos daily (this after using them nonstop since they came out and maybe getting them 1/mo), getting rare mods in every mission, rare prime parts almost every time i ran a void mission (got almost all the new prime parts in less than 10 runs each). the "luck" change was drastic and consistent all across the board. my testing was done by playing the game for a long time and has shown me it's definitely not random or "luck" I don't think you understand how RNG works. The thing about RNG (not that its ever truly 100% balanced) is that you are just as likely to have consistent horrible luck as you are consistent good luck, or even a decent mix. Correlation does not always equal causation, not to mention you would need a much larger sample size and sufficient supporting evidence, which you don't have, to make such a conclusion even remotely more accurate. By contrast my luck with RNG (I'm mostly solo so no changes in seeds are relevant) regularly fluctuate from good to ban and all things inbetween. How does that fit into your theory? Edited October 16, 2015 by StinkyPygmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Off topic..... Some MMO use Progressive drop chance in [cash]gachapon items Progressive drop chance is something like this Start - drop chance 5% Rolled 10 times - drop chance 15% Rolled 20 times - drop chance 25% .... and on Once the item you want dropped that item's drop chance resets to 5%. I hope to see this thing lessen the grind in WF too. Edited October 16, 2015 by Volinus7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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