Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[bubbabenali]

Well tested anything thats kinda my playstyle out.

I will stay with 71% duration, 160% efficience, 190% range and 125% strength for now.

Pop one or two spores with the Ignis (moded for radiation for cc as a bonus) and ride on the viral wave with some Ignis bursts here and there.

Thats enough for the starchart and up to T2 - so nothing new on the Saryn high level front.

At least I have now to spam 1 and sometimes 2 and save much energy this way.

Edited November 7, 2015 by bubbabenali

[Toom1275]

For more Viral fun with your melee-only Saryn, take the Mire with Toxic Blight installed. On that note, why did the new weapon skin have to be for the Dual Zoren (which already has an alt skin) and not the Mire (which doesn't, and matches Saryn better)?

[RHuckebein]

Funny, i just made a thread about how toxic lash doesnt affect cerata / glaive type weapons before reading your post, hope they change this.

 

It's funny because it DOES work on redeemer shots.

 

But yes, Saryn has the basis to be an enjoyable, functional frame now, but miasma needs to be replaced entirely with a strong CC ability (the combo is worthless) and she needs some form of self-sustain that doesn't require regenerative molt + rage because she's too squishy and too energy-hungry.

[Buttaface]

1. Spores, numbers are fine generally, should be "homing" instead of demanding target.

2. Molt, numbers are fine generally but reduce energy cost to 35, should be range cast like Decoy instead of based on Saryn's position.

3. Lash, needs biggest buff, adds 100% melee damage, 100% block, 100% toxin proc; if target has spore and toxin proc both, then finisher damage on subsequent strikes... by Saryn's melee weapon only.

4. Miasma, half energy cost to 50 like Mirage's ult.

 

Done.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Buttaface

[Inarticulate]

Change: Make Range the dump stat. The range on Spores, Molt and Miasma can be determined by Power Strength instead. Similar to how Nova's MP is affected by Duration instead of Range.

Nova's Molecular Prime functions this way because it makes sense for the wave duration to be affected by Power Duration, not a contrived reason like what you are suggesting.

 

 

4. Miasma, half energy cost to 50 like Mirage's ult.

Mirage's Prism costs 50 Energy because it also has an energy drain associated with it.

[RHuckebein]

Nova's Molecular Prime functions this way because it makes sense for the wave duration to be affected by Power Duration, not a contrived reason like what you are suggesting.

 

 

Mirage's Prism costs 50 Energy because it also has an energy drain associated with it.

 

And Saryn's Miasma should cost 50 because it's only half of a power.

[rawr1254]

 

Viral procs deal zero damage with a debuff  of - 50% health which is exactly 100% increased damage on that enemy during the viral proc.

 

So much argument over this viral thing now. Ok so what you just said is for 6 seconds(How long viral lasts) if I were originally doing 100 dps i'd be doing 200 dps for 6 seconds...yea...no. Viral takes 50% health away and that's it. This is all that needs to be known about it and nothing more, It shouldn't be this much of an argument when it specifically says -50% health. It doesn't matter the health. It doesn't matter the dps you put out. IT TAKES 50% HEALTH AWAY. This is all it does. Stop throwing your other number bs in there. Either way there's 50% less health you have to shoot through.

[Vaxillian]

Debunked or not she can be used for more than just taking out rooms instantly, giving her more playability which I for one enjoy.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Vaxillian

[XxCurtennoxX]

It's funny because it DOES work on redeemer shots.

 

But yes, Saryn has the basis to be an enjoyable, functional frame now, but miasma needs to be replaced entirely with a strong CC ability (the combo is worthless) and she needs some form of self-sustain that doesn't require regenerative molt + rage because she's too squishy and too energy-hungry.

Her ability to spread viral across a map is great fun. She better suits her theme now, and since playing her like this, i rarely use Miasma. 

[DelialFallen]

Problem with Spores+Lash - it doesent scale past level 40 because of exponential armor growth, and becomes utterly useless later on (Tower 4 past rotation B). Basically put most of the complaints about her come down to the fact that there's no way to build her in a satisfactory way now - everything feels sub-par in the late game and she kills enemies too slow. In anything she tries she is outmatched by other frames. 

-snip-

 

With her abilities alone, sure.  While using weapons and properly modded, that's simply untrue.  As the OP mentioned, when you see her as a debuffer/disease spreader and actually build for that playstyle, with weapons and loadouts that complement Saryn's toolkit, you can get as far as you would with any other frame outside of solid CC groups.

 

Not immediately relevant due to scaling issues, but I've been able to solo T4 Survival up to 35 minutes so far.  That's only 3 days into the rework.  Given time, experience, and more build testing, I'm pretty confident I can push to 50 (will post a video once I make it passed the 40 minute mark).  It's no Excalibro, Chroma or Valkyr, but I'd say she's in a decent enough spot at the moment.

[RHuckebein]

So much argument over this viral thing now. Ok so what you just said is for 6 seconds(How long viral lasts) if I were originally doing 100 dps i'd be doing 200 dps for 6 seconds...yea...no. Viral takes 50% health away and that's it. This is all that needs to be known about it and nothing more, It shouldn't be this much of an argument when it specifically says -50% health. It doesn't matter the health. It doesn't matter the dps you put out. IT TAKES 50% HEALTH AWAY. This is all it does. Stop throwing your other number bs in there. Either way there's 50% less health you have to shoot through.

 

If an enemy has 2000 health and your shots do 100 damage, and you shoot them 5 times, they will be at 1500 health.  You did 500 damage.

 

If an enemy has 2000 health and your shots do 100 damage, and you proc viral on them (reducing them to 1000 health), and over those 6 seconds you shoot them 5 times, they will have 500 health and when viral expires they will be at 1000 health. You did 1000 damage total, a 100% damage increase against that enemy.

 

If an enemy has 2000 health and your shots do 200 damage and you fire 5 shots per second, it will take 2 seconds to kill the enemy.

 

If an enemy has 2000 health and your shots do 200 damage and you fire 5 shots per second, and you proc viral on them, it will take you 1 second to kill the enemy.  You killed the enemy twice as fast because you have a 100% damage increase against that enemy.

 

Viral would be completely unchanged if they just changed the wording of the debuff to 'takes double damage to health.'  It is, in fact, exactly the same effect.

 

If you do not understand this, you are wrong.  This is not something that can be disagreed with.  People who legitimately do not understand this incredibly basic math need to stop trying to tell people who are smarter than them how math works.

 

now, he is actually SLIGHTLY incorrect, but not for the reasons you think.  Viral status does not reduce enemy shields, so it is ONLY a 100% multiplier against health.  It does nothing to shields, and as such is inferior to other 100% damage boosts that do effect shields (molecular prime is the only other one I can think of that does not effect shields).

[PsiWarp]

I'm sure this has been suggested somewhere already, but allow me to reiterate it.

 

- Allow Spore explosions to stagger the enemy the spores stem from.

 

Encourage popping spores to provide your team a soft CC option. Players with good aim or AoE weapons/powers can either selectively or collectively stagger enemies while Spores are active. Give Saryn a cheaper option to improve her survivability without relying on Miasma's stun.

[Cubewano]

Debunked or not she can be used for more than just taking out rooms instantly, giving her more playability which I for one enjoy.

Which isn't the issue being fought in this thread, yes everyone acknowledges this rework has made saryn a more interesting frame at least from an interactive perspective. But it has made her less viable as well, which should be viewed as a problem also. It doesn't mean DE needs to turn back the changes and take away all these neat new interactions between Saryn's skills but the abilities themselves do need improvements, all the people refusing to acknowledge this are only derailing Saryn's smooth acquisition into a quality frame. 

 

Or to put it simply, sure Saryn is a funner frame now (in general i assume) but she is also quite ineffective. Why can't she be fun and also be effective? 

Edited November 7, 2015 by Cubewano

[rawr1254]

-snip-

Ok after looking at it a bit more now Im seeing where people are getting this bs 100% dmg. Yea when the health is returned to normal double the dmg you dealt will be taken away from the original health BUT if you kill it before the proc wears off who gives a crap you still took half their health away in 1 hit thus having half health to deal with. You still within that 6 second would only be doing your base damage only after the proc wears off could it be considered 100% dmg increase.

Edited November 7, 2015 by rawr1254

[RHuckebein]

Ok after looking at it a bit more now Im seeing where people are getting this bs 100% dmg. Yea when the health is returned to normal double the dmg you dealt will be taken away from the original health BUT if you kill it before the proc wears off who gives a crap you still took half their health away in 1 hit thus having half health to deal with.

 

Yes, but that's still the same as a 100% damage boost, because your time to kill them is the same as if your weapon did double damage.  It's not BS, it's what people really should be looking at when they think 'viral proc.'  It's not a bad thing at all, it's just not some kind of incredible thing that saryn does that's a million times better than anything else can do. Especially if those other frames just use something like a viral ignis to stack BOTH multipliers, like nova using molecular prime (now every enemy is taking double damage from m.prime + effective double damage from half health, effectively creating a 4x damage multiplier) or Banshee's Sonar, which stacks up for an effective 10x damage multiplier assuming she has no power strength.

[Vaxillian]

Which isn't the issue being fought in this thread, yes everyone acknowledges this rework has made saryn a more interesting frame at least from an interactive perspective. But it has made her less viable as well, which should be viewed as a problem also. It doesn't mean DE needs to turn back the changes and take away all these neat new interactions between Saryn's skills but the abilities themselves do need improvements, all the people refusing to acknowledge this are only derailing Saryn's smooth acquisition into a quality frame. 

 

Or to put it simply, sure Saryn is a funner frame now (in general i assume) but she is also quite ineffective. Why can't she be fun and also be effective? 

 

For one, "funner" isn't a word, you should say "more fun."

 

Two, instead of just saying that she is less effective you could suggest on HOW to make her more effective. her other abilities actually do something now giving her more than one way to approach a situation and that from what i can tell is being more effective.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Vaxillian

[MopUpCrewman]

A warframe is only playable if it is "superstrong". All warframes must have the ability to clear the whole map with the press of a button, without any trade-offs or disadvantages of whatsoever. No sarcasm. I just want effortless fun.

If DE listened to people like you this is what Warframe would look like right now:

 

 

Edit: I really hope you weren't serious.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Senpai-Pie

[VoidNomade]

A thesis:

-you can´t mod her to use Rage/Molt Augment + a build that "works" in lategame due to how much damage enemies deal plus 2.), 3.)

 

thus:

1.) Energy problems

Due to her rework you´re now casting many things multiple times and there´s no way to feed this playstyle with any sort of mechanic inherit on the frame.

 

2.) Molt

The doppelgänger is cast "in" saryn. Play style and game flow dictates that the player is in a forward movement. Thus the cast of molt is always "behind" the player. That means the players will always receive damage except he´s moving away from the enemies. This works perfectly fine if you´re fleeing from enemies but not when you want to attack. Conclusion: you will always take damage.

 

3.) CC

Her only abilities in this department are Molt and the little stun from Miasma. Molt is not working properly because of 2) and Miasma is considered the ultimate. That means costly in energy and due to the rework best practice is it to cast Miasma as finisher when toxin and viral procs are already in bound and NOT as a CC ability.

That leaves her with literally no CC in her survivability department.

 

4.) Damage

Her damage rises when the enemies have the hp to be able to stack toxic procs. The problem here is the high DR from armor units and the DR from ancients and stuff. So there´s a sweet spot in the levels where she shines but any other department she lacks either the burst or the damage falls off. Also our good friend 1) is hindering a ongoing battle with all of her kit.

[Syln]

If DE listened to people like you this is what Warframe would look like right now:

 

 

(i think it was a troll :x) 

[Icpmcp]

Was Saryn ever used (read: wanted in a group setup) in a t4 def/surv anything of that sort before the rework? And when yes, why?

I have personally only seen a Saryn once for a t3 survival Argon crytal L00t run together with a Mag(before the rework) a Vauban and me as Nekros

[XxCurtennoxX]

With her abilities alone, sure.  While using weapons and properly modded, that's simply untrue.  As the OP mentioned, when you see her as a debuffer/disease spreader and actually build for that playstyle, with weapons and loadouts that complement Saryn's toolkit, you can get as far as you would with any other frame outside of solid CC groups.

 

Not immediately relevant due to scaling issues, but I've been able to solo T4 Survival up to 35 minutes so far.  That's only 3 days into the rework.  Given time, experience, and more build testing, I'm pretty confident I can push to 50 (will post a video once I make it passed the 40 minute mark).  It's no Excalibro, Chroma or Valkyr, but I'd say she's in a decent enough spot at the moment.

I just took her to draco to gain my rep for the day. Placing a single spore on an enemy and then slide attacking them with a primed reach orthos prime, whilst Toxic Lash is active, made a beautiful thing happen. The entire group proc'd viral. On the second toxin tick, more spores popped, and a group that had just spawned got viral'd and toxin proc'd too. I was able to cover near enough the entire of draco by popping one spore. 

 

She's such a blast to play this way. Halving the health of an entire room full or map full of enemy's portrays her as a Toxin Warframe perfectly. People just have to stop thinking of her as a "press 4 to win" frame and start broadening their uses of her. 

 

As i said in the OP, once they fix how squishy she is for a melee frame, she'll be in an even better spot.

[Pride]

there have some 30 seconds of using saryn casually in the midgame she is looking pretty good to me

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

This is the biggest nerf I've seen in years.

 

She's slow, she's squishy, her damage output is dependent on three or more powers running and the need to equip regenerating molt to keep her somewhat tanky completely breaks the energy economy. She's a pain to play now, you have to sacrifice too much to get her anywhere near viable. Setting up the combo takes too much time and too much energy, leaving her defenseless since you can't keep up a regen molt alongside that without spamming energy pods.

 

DE, I've seen you do some pretty petty things in the past, but this has to take the cake. I know you're angry at the Draco farmers, but going to these kinds of extremes punishes everyone else like me that just wants a good tank that can chuck some poison around. I don't know what the rest of us did to deserve this, but clearly we are all being punished with this huge nerf.

 

I loved Saryn, she was the coolest Warframe around, just running around swinging around Galatine and spamming regen molt was enough to bring a smile to my face. I guess it's time to say goodbye to the Queen, I think this is the saddest thing to ever happen to this game.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Hap-muhr

[-dicht.Amducias-]

A clannie of mine claimed to have solo'd T4S for an hour with the new Saryn. Hopefully he posts his proof soon, but people really underestimate the effect of mass Viral proc'ing with her Spores and Molt.

Really.. I could do 1h of solo T4 Surv with a rank 0 excalibur

[(PSN)kira4715]

Hopefully  DE is working on fixing her horrible energy and cc issues plus buffing her back to 150...