Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[Rhundis]

Using Spore is like watching popcorn pop. Use Spore on an enemy in a group, cast Toxic Lash, melee enemy, watch the show. It's so much fun for a seasoned veteran like myself who is looking for a more in depth system and likes the challenge.

[(PSN)twistedodean14]

It's good that they took duration into account, it will increase build diversity whcih a game like Warframe needs desperately. And playing a frame is different than watching someone play it.

 

Miasma was OP and was the only reason people would play Saryn now with the rework it utilizes all other powers giving her a different approach. I've had absolutely no problem modding her anyways. Just put a Molt augment, max Vitality, and a Rage mod and you're good go. Besides, it cuts down on spamming powers which I personally see as a plus.

To me miasma was not OP because i dont use saryn on low level missions, that's why i never viewed her as being OP. And duration was always apart of miasma we most players just thought it was point less. But tenno need to understand that Its not about spamming powers, Its also about being able to take any frame Into any high level missions Like T4 sur and spending at least an hour and a half on there. With this reworked saryn wont do anything past 40 mins(if you don't die 4 times before). Molt Augment, maxed vitality and rage will not suffice. Also based on what i have noticed with the miasma rework you need as much duration and power strength as possible to get maximum damage out put correct? If narrow minded come into the mix then power range will be affected, so you need to off set that with over extended but wait that reduces power strength. And what about power efficiency? unless the cost for miasma and molt(power strength and duration based) has be reduced then there is the issue of power efficiency. streamline is not enough so we need fleeting expertise but that will reduce the power duration... Do you see the issue here? if you want to use this frame on high level missions you need power strength, efficiency and range. Saryn is balanced now to me in the sense that her first 3 abilities were just ok, almost made out of paper(not a good frame to melee with, while the 4th was strong.

[Kaotyke]

1.    Regenerative Molt will not restore health to Saryn if it is destroyed. Given that a sure-fire way of hitting enemies with Viral, Toxin, and a damage-boosted Miasma is by placing a Spored Molt in the middle of enemies, your Molt is going to die--fast. Because the shed does not have Snowglobe/Tectonics style health scaling, at high level play it is going to die very quickly. A possible solution is to put your Molt high in the air, which can help with encouraging enemy gun fire up to the roof, but may limit its potential spread range. Additionally, you could store your Molt out of reach, giving you secure health but ruining its synergy with Miasma/Spore.

Yeah, that is the biggest grip I have, not only with Molt, but with Decoy as well.

[Chhkt]

Why the hell would you want to go an hour and a half in a survival mission? I would cry out of boredom at that point.

Oh, right, farming for parts so you can shark them out to people on trade chat. <_<

[XxCurtennoxX]

Using Spore is like watching popcorn pop. Use Spore on an enemy in a group, cast Toxic Lash, melee enemy, watch the show. It's so much fun for a seasoned veteran like myself who is looking for a more in depth system and likes the challenge.

I haven't been playing much recently. But since i've been trying Saryn since her rework, it's sparked some life into Warframe again for me until U18 hits.

The viral procs all over my screen and hearing those sound effects is so damn satisfying.

[Rankii]

This is the biggest nerf I've seen in years.

 

She's slow, she's squishy, her damage output is dependent on three or more powers running and the need to equip regenerating molt to keep her somewhat tanky completely breaks the energy economy. She's a pain to play now, you have to sacrifice too much to get her anywhere near viable. Setting up the combo takes too much time and too much energy, leaving her defenseless since you can't keep up a regen molt alongside that without spamming energy pods.

 

DE, I've seen you do some pretty petty things in the past, but this has to take the cake. I know you're angry at the Draco farmers, but going to these kinds of extremes punishes everyone else like me that just wants a good tank that can chuck some poison around. I don't know what the rest of us did to deserve this, but clearly we are all being punished with this huge nerf.

 

I loved Saryn, she was the coolest Warframe around, just running around swinging around Galatine and spamming regen molt was enough to bring a smile to my face. I guess it's time to say goodbye to the Queen, I think this is the saddest thing to ever happen to this game.

This. i even bought her acrane helmet (the onion one whose name I can't recall) so that I can use it with rush and be the god-damned gingerbread frame. Now I'm way too squishy, and molt is a steaming pile.

 

RIP Saryn. You were too fun, and made too much salt for newbies.

[GhostLacuna]

Using Spore is like watching popcorn pop. Use Spore on an enemy in a group, cast Toxic Lash, melee enemy, watch the show. It's so much fun for a seasoned veteran like myself who is looking for a more in depth system and likes the challenge.

 

If you like a melee centric playstyle sure.

 

I prefer a long ranged playstyle and mostly use semi or single shot weapons.

 

Saryn has nothing at all to offer my playstyle.

 

Spore benefit from AOE weapons only. 

 

Molt is a 2 sec distraction and a small heal.

 

Toxin lash is a forced melee that is single target and only work due top its combo with spore.

 

you could have a good range Miasma before with ok damage and great efficiency

 

Now it takes way to long to setup unless you play melee and for that energy cost i could just as well cast spore to see some small numbers while i kill enemies from afar.

 

DE has forced a single playstyle with Saryn in this rework. That is what kills the frame for me.

[XxCurtennoxX]

 

 

Spore benefit from AOE weapons only. 

 

I missed the memo. Since when is this the case?

You can shoot the spores with any weapon you like. Heck, you could even kill the enemy outright to spread the spores, albeit at a 50% reduced range.

It's quite likely that spraying bullets it's going to catch a spore no matter what weapon you use. You're not being forced into any specific weapon.

[Cubewano]

Why the hell would you want to go an hour and a half in a survival mission? I would cry out of boredom at that point.

Oh, right, farming for parts so you can shark them out to people on trade chat. <_<

i always thought going that long was fun because its when the stakes started to rise and you had to be more alert. 

[GhostLacuna]

And on which %range you were running..?

 

As i wote in the post you quoted.

 

"Sure for this test i had 100% range but my spore chains where broken over and over just by the fact that enemies did not want to play ball and remained spread out enough that it only affected  those catch in the 16 meter radius."

 

I have made several runs with 145% range as well as 190% range.

 

Spore greatly benefit from range this was a test to see how a base range worked against more spread out enemies.

 

As such the result was that it didnt work  as well as i had hoped.

 

base is power range 60 meters 16 meters spread

 

145% range is a great boost at 87 power range and 23.2 meters spread range or 27 meter further casting distance and 7 meters further spread range.

 

190% range lowers your damage but its 114 power range and 30.4 meters spread range or 54 meters better casting range and 14.4 meters better spread range.

 

For now the build i actually would play with her would be 145% range.  I find that good enough.

 

Still until they changed how toxin lash works or remove it from the game i will just use 1 and 2.

 

That is if i feel the need to even use her.

 

I have vastly superior frames to use if i want to do anything remotely challenging.

 

Those frames will not:

 

1. Suffer from having to use all their stats all the time, they all have at least one dump stat. Saryn does not.

2. Lack meaning full CC. All my other frames have some sort of CC. Saryn has one the stagger from Miasma which is at best 4 seconds. But for 70 energy? hell no.

3.Suffer from lack of survivability and durability. Saryn is squishy as hell. The lowering of her EHP the increased energy cost and time it takes to setup her damage as well as the lack of any sort of durability on Molt means that if i did not have regenerative molt, regen from rejuv and vitality+rage she would not even survive facing +level 40 units.

4. Drain energy like it was water in a desert.

Edited November 8, 2015 by GhostLacuna

[taiiat]

while it's great that people (like with every fundamental redesign of things in Warframe) over time actually try to figure out the things they can do to understand what they can do:

 

it's odd that literally everyone gets it backwards. whack at targets with Toxic Lash first, THEN apply Spores for maximum Effect on Target.

 

 

and yes, ofcourse Saryn is missing a source of CC. Miasma could fill that source, but can't/doesn't.

 

 

 

let's debunk (again) some dumb opinions that everyone holds on to with their dying breath though:

- "doesn't scale" is applicable to 99% of things in Warframe. saying that alone is not a valid complaint. while it can be true and often is, it's not a valid complain on it's own because everyone is subject to the same 'problem'.

- more Armor is not the way to make a Warframe more durable. if you want more Health, you want more actual Health. 'more Armor on everything' is not the saving grace to everyone's problems. if you think that's the case, you should.... learn the math. Armor is only useful in addition to Health. Health is still more important. (Chroma can be the only exception while Abilities are running.)

- Decoy Abilities are only squishy if you don't understand simple strategy.

- Miasma is the only Ability which has a short Duration. the rest is more than sufficient.

- just because a Mod stat is useful, does not mean it needs to be the absolute maximum. similarly, it also doesn't mean you can't compensate some of some other stat back if you want both sides. thinking otherwise is... worthy of being laughed at about.

- spreading DoT on the DoT Warframe doesn't take long at all. fractions of a second.

- while Corrosive Status is neat, Corrosive Status on Miasma is not some saving grace that would make 'amazing scaling'. that's not how this works.

 

 

 

-snip-

absolutely.

there is one strange facet however, when Enemies are Primed, i could swear Crits happen more often, Et Cetera.

 

it's probably just placebo effect though. but game seems to produce that as a result despite.

 

Your second paragraph is runs exactly contradictory to what your first one says.

no it isn't.

dividing by two is the same as multiplying by two. Multiplication and Division are interchangeable.

 

if you're talking about durability stats that Viral doesn't affect, that's separate from what the Effect does.

 

MPrime is also an ability a frame gets that costs energy and can't happen every single time you shoot targets.

and when talking about Saryn... it's still tied to an Ability.

 

and applying Viral on every single Shot is irrelevant to Damage Output, it just keeps the Debuff active, resetting the Duration.

 

Im seeing where people are getting this bs 100% dmg.

 

Yea when the health is returned to normal double the dmg you dealt will be taken away from the original health BUT if you kill it before the proc wears off who gives a crap you still took half their health away in 1 hit thus having half health to deal with.

- no, you're not seeing it, apparently.

- yes, if after 6 seconds it's not dead, you did double Damage. it's still double Damage if it dies in 6 Seconds, because you had to deal half the Damage you would otherwise to Kill the Enemy.

less Health is the same as more Damage as far as Time to Kill is concerned.

[Doom_Bunny]

Does the exp from enemies affected by spore work the same as Nova's MP? The player that begins the MP chain reaction gets the exp. In Saryn's case if another player sets off the spore that spreads to nearby enemies, does that player get the exp or does Saryn?

[LunarTemplar]

Which isn't the issue being fought in this thread, yes everyone acknowledges this rework has made saryn a more interesting frame at least from an interactive perspective. But it has made her less viable as well, which should be viewed as a problem also. It doesn't mean DE needs to turn back the changes and take away all these neat new interactions between Saryn's skills but the abilities themselves do need improvements, all the people refusing to acknowledge this are only derailing Saryn's smooth acquisition into a quality frame. 

 

Or to put it simply, sure Saryn is a funner frame now (in general i assume) but she is also quite ineffective. Why can't she be fun and also be effective? 

 

Viable in what? the laughably under developed  'endgame'?

 

I'll care about 'Endgame Viability' once we have a real endgame to care about, and no, 2 trials and T4 isn't a real end game. At best, it's a place holder for when DE decides to put in a real end game. If they ever do that is.

[GhostLacuna]

anyone else need me to "debunk" their inability to process and come up with solutions themselves? happy to help anyone that isnt comfortable with the new saryn i have gotten in enough play time on her i know all her options

 

This was a test of 100% to see if it was at all viable. it was not.

 

145% range is indeed good enough 190 has to many drawbacks.

 

2 seconds molt against a level 42 threat is pure crap we are talking about 38 min Apollodorus here for crying out loud the lowest level survival that exits in the damn game.

 

I choose it for the exact reason that its enemies start at level 1 and then scale with the time you stay there.

 

The base level of ceres is 31-47 how long do you think molt will last against scaling enemies in a survival there?

 

not to mention t1 to t4.

 

Level 42 enemies can not be considered high level enemies when the starting levels of enemies on the starchart can be the same damn level.

 

Eris has enemies level 26-42, pluto 31 to 45, Ceres cap at enemy level 47 at none endless missions.

 

That is 3 levels from 50 something i see people talk about as it its high level enemies.

 

Egeria on Ceres has a base level of 35-40 and it will only go up the longer you stay there.  It wont take long before you start to see the ohh so high leveled 50 enemies spawn.

 

How long does molt have to last until you understand the problem?

 

0.5 seconds?

 

Regenerative Molt only heal you as long at Molt is up. The instance its killed your healing stops. No matter how long duration you have.

 

The augment heals you for 10 ticks over 10 seconds with 50 health being the base. Sure its affected by str mods but what good will it do you when your getting mayby 25 health per cast of molt?

 

because that is what you will get if its destroyed in 0.5 seconds.

 

I already use rage+vitality but rage does not heal you it only gives you energy. but if our molt does not last longer then a few seconds we cant heal from that either.

 

i frankly will heal more over time from rejuv then i will from Molt due to how short it lasts.

 

Life strike is a good idea if you have it and you want to risk going into melee without any CC option nor the durability required for a melee frame.

[tripletriple]

I think anyone saying Saryn is perfect in her current state needs a deeper understanding of warframe. I think DE is on the right track but what they need to do is cut all her powers ability costs in half. Add 10 Meters of range to all her skills. Make toxic lash affect all weapons. Buff Miasma damage by adding 200 damage and an extra tick. Then build regenerative molt into the ability.

[Heatnix.]

75 pages on actual facts as to why Saryn is worthless now and a lot of people STILL deny it. Also, DE probably won't take time to check this or get back to Saryn. They'll probably just move on.

[GhostLacuna]

I missed the memo. Since when is this the case?

You can shoot the spores with any weapon you like. Heck, you could even kill the enemy outright to spread the spores, albeit at a 50% reduced range.

It's quite likely that spraying bullets it's going to catch a spore no matter what weapon you use. You're not being forced into any specific weapon.

 

What i meant is that AOE weapons benefit Spore the most.

 

Sure you can spray bullets everywhere with an automatic weapon and maybe you hit a few spores on the first target. Mean while a user that has a AOE weapon will pop all the spores on all the enemies at the same time.

 

concealed explosives on haku prime boom all spores triggered in an instance.

 

Ignis modded for gas etc, one sweep is all it takes and you have popped all spores due to AOE, punch through and the fact  that it hits such a larger area.

 

Same things for beam weapons with puch through or explosive weapons like penta or tonkor etc.

 

Now do the same with semi or single shot weapons.

 

Take a latron prime or dread and see how much longer it takes you to pop the spores then if you used any other weapon category out there.

 

Not all of us run around with bullet hoses or AOE weapons all day long you know.

[Insizer]

I'm not being sarcastic. Thank you DE. For me, Saryn was extremely boring to play as, and extremely annoying to have someone else play as. 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4 that's all she was. Now she has 4 abilities instead of 1.5. Thanks. The Warframe team is 3/3 in reworks.

[AutumnBramble]

Has any frame's rework had such a backlash this big and detailed before? Even the people who are happy with her still say she needs buffs in like every single area.

[warp_cat]

It's true, yeah. many thanks for DE.

[Cynaris]

I have only one thing to say

 

WHY DID I NOT ANTICIPATE THAT EVERYONE WILL USE THIS ICON WHYYYYYY

 

Nice way to ignore Frost by the way, who according to Quiette, went back to the good old "make a cup of coffee while pressing 4" frame

Edited November 8, 2015 by Cynaris

[SickoSike]

Fix Sayrn please, and DE I think you should really take into the account of how you want this game to be, Fun? Or making your playerbase unhappy..,it's your choice, I just got back into this game from my break and I already feel like rage-quitting it really is sad to see how you guys didn't fix your mistakes since the Excalibur Javelin nerf in Update 15, having to re-work his abilities from a backlash and now you feed us with an update that's just way to pretentious to even say that you positively buffed her stats. Please don't give Ash any ''BUFFS''.

Edited November 8, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[Insizer]

I like what the Warframe team did to Saryn. She is fun to use now, and doesn't make me want to slam my head into a wall from being on the same team as a Saryn user.

[Insizer]

Thank you Rufus, I will use it with honor.

 

@Cynaris: Ok... and... At least Frost is more fun to play as rather, and actually has some offensive capability now. Quiette can say what she wants, Frost is far better off where he is now than where he was, there is no arguing that point. And yes, it is a good icon, its no surprise that everyone and their mother is using it.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Insizer

[akira_him]

I just took her to draco to gain my rep for the day. Placing a single spore on an enemy and then slide attacking them with a primed reach orthos prime, whilst Toxic Lash is active, made a beautiful thing happen. The entire group proc'd viral. On the second toxin tick, more spores popped, and a group that had just spawned got viral'd and toxin proc'd too. I was able to cover near enough the entire of draco by popping one spore.

She's such a blast to play this way. Halving the health of an entire room full or map full of enemy's portrays her as a Toxin Warframe perfectly. People just have to stop thinking of her as a "press 4 to win" frame and start broadening their uses of her.

As i said in the OP, once they fix how squishy she is for a melee frame, she'll be in an even better spot.

but she is now a press 1 to win frame