KaineHeresy Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I've never really trusted Lotus. She was our boss and she assured us she was on our side, but I never really felt like I could believe her about what very little she told us about anything we did. But it never really mattered and I didn't dislike her, even if she did repeat herself a lot. But U18 changed a lot of things. Now I find myself very much disliking the Lotus. I'm of the interpretation that the Warframes are their own semi-conscious entity, blacking out when a Tenno isn't powering them with space magic, but more than an empty shell. And I still identify as the Warframe. The Tenno keep us moving and experience the world through us, but we're still us. Now we just know there's someone else watching through our eyes. This interpretation is responsible for why I am growing to hate Lotus. When I hear her say "Good job, Tenno" or the like, I don't hear it as the empty praise it used to be. She's not talking to me, she's talking through me to the Tenno. I used to think she didn't care, but now I see it as she doesn't acknowledge me enough to even consider whether or not to care. She, just like Hunhow, sees me as nothing more than a tool, a puppet on a string. Well Hunhow's little toy is snapped in two, now. And it wasn't our Tenno that did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armedpoop Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 But the warframes are literally just shells. Literally JUST puppets. You are not a Warframe, Warframes are not sentient. They are not actual beings. They are literally suits of armor that the tenno control. So yes, the lotus IS talkting to the tenno thru the Warframe, but she is talking to the Tenno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I've never really trusted Lotus. She was our boss and she assured us she was on our side, but I never really felt like I could believe her about what very little she told us about anything we did. But it never really mattered and I didn't dislike her, even if she did repeat herself a lot. But U18 changed a lot of things. Now I find myself very much disliking the Lotus. I'm of the interpretation that the Warframes are their own semi-conscious entity, blacking out when a Tenno isn't powering them with space magic, but more than an empty shell. And I still identify as the Warframe. The Tenno keep us moving and experience the world through us, but we're still us. Now we just know there's someone else watching through our eyes. This interpretation is responsible for why I am growing to hate Lotus. When I hear her say "Good job, Tenno" or the like, I don't hear it as the empty praise it used to be. She's not talking to me, she's talking through me to the Tenno. I used to think she didn't care, but now I see it as she doesn't acknowledge me enough to even consider whether or not to care. She, just like Hunhow, sees me as nothing more than a tool, a puppet on a string. Well Hunhow's little toy is snapped in two, now. And it wasn't our Tenno that did that. Well, she's mostly just overwhelmed with Margulis's imprint to the point where she sees herself as mother to the Tenno. Also, Warframes without operators are basically infested beasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapt0rman Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 But the warframes are literally just shells. Literally JUST puppets. You are not a Warframe, Warframes are not sentient. They are not actual beings. They are literally suits of armor that the tenno control. So yes, the lotus IS talkting to the tenno thru the Warframe, but she is talking to the Tenno. It's open for interpretation until DE says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorylas Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 well.. if u want to roleplay it.. than you get it wrong.. you as player are the tenno (tenno sitting in your orbiter is your avatar as is your character in world of warcraft etc..) Lotus calls you Tenno and ordis calls you operator but its same thing.. and warframe is just a tool like tank or drone with weapons and magic.. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magneu Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Can we please to rest all the talk about "Lotus is evil?" DE has stated (can't remember which stream) that Lotus is someone we can trust pretty much unconditionally. She has no ulterior motive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helleborr Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 What makes you think the Tenno wasn't the one that broke the War? I'm pretty sure you can see the tenno moving his/her glowing hand when the frame is breaking the War, and even if not, the frame may possess some rudimentary will, but no sentience/sapience. The lore hints always indicated that we, the Tenno, were some kind of entity controlling various warframe suits. Granted, there's some kind of of a dummy body inside each suit, mimicking the original user/creator of the frame, but the copies we get are dummies for all intents and purposes. Bottom line is, I'm sorry you identify with the frame and U18 broke it for you, but it's not Lotus' fault. Lotus went as far as destroying the Orokin civilization to save the Tenno children, which were intended to be used as tools and discarded after they saved the Orokin from the Sentient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowiespoon Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) well, technically, you ARE the operator, not the frame. Still, the lack of any aknowledgement from either the operator or the lotus interests me. I don't think even they fully realize that their puppet has its own intelligence. In my own little head canon, the frame has its own mind, composed of an ancient strain of technocyte. I believe that the orokin dug up the grave of an ancient hero, a soldier named Hayden. In fear and desperation they used the two strains they found on that site, one creating the infestation, and the other creating the protoype warframes. Now, Hayden's technocyte, which developed a sort of symbiotic relationship him, was driven into a blind rage after an unknown time of experimentation in an orokin lab, being grown and cut apart endlessly, and went into a rampage (rhino prime codex). Now, this site it's being held in had more than one dangerous anomaly being contained within it, another being the survivors of the Zariman-10-0 (10-0, Tenno, I get it), and when it wandered near where they were being held, one of them assumed control over the beast, reestablishing the relationship that Hayden had first created so long ago. Thus the relationship was reborn, the operator getting a vessel of monstrous power, and the technocyte consciousness obtaining immense power from the battles they win. Whether the frame broke the sword out of loyalty or self-preservation is something I'm very interested in though, I'd like to know more about the frames. forgive any bad grammer and stuff, I'm really tired Edited December 7, 2015 by bowiespoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Can we please to rest all the talk about "Lotus is evil?" DE has stated (can't remember which stream) that Lotus is someone we can trust pretty much unconditionally. She has no ulterior motive. If "Lotus" isnt evil, how come she never woke the tenno up? She kept the charade going, that's pretty evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowiespoon Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If "Lotus" isnt evil, how come she never woke the tenno up? She kept the charade going, that's pretty evil. She had good intentions though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athros Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If "Lotus" isnt evil, how come she never woke the tenno up? She kept the charade going, that's pretty evil. Because they are safer when they in their second dream, controlling (or living) the Warframe, faraway from any direct danger. The same reason why she hide the Reservoir (placed on the Orokin Moon, trapped in the Void) from the Sentients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaineHeresy Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Can we please to rest all the talk about "Lotus is evil?" DE has stated (can't remember which stream) that Lotus is someone we can trust pretty much unconditionally. She has no ulterior motive. I've never thought Lotus as evil, just that she was using us for her own agenda. An agenda that so far has been to our benefit, but I take issue with being kept in the dark. What makes you think the Tenno wasn't the one that broke the War? I'm pretty sure you can see the tenno moving his/her glowing hand when the frame is breaking the War, and even if not, the frame may possess some rudimentary will, but no sentience/sapience. The lore hints always indicated that we, the Tenno, were some kind of entity controlling various warframe suits. Granted, there's some kind of of a dummy body inside each suit, mimicking the original user/creator of the frame, but the copies we get are dummies for all intents and purposes. Bottom line is, I'm sorry you identify with the frame and U18 broke it for you, but it's not Lotus' fault. Lotus went as far as destroying the Orokin civilization to save the Tenno children, which were intended to be used as tools and discarded after they saved the Orokin from the Sentient. The Tenno does not move their hand in that scene, and Hunhow is baffled when we start moving. It is clearly not something that is supposed to be happening, something that I can only attribute to an act of sheer willpower on the Warframe's part to protect its operator. We've always fancied ourselves some kind of protectors, if the various bosses that deride us for it are to be believed. And U18 didn't really break anything much for me. I like my Tenno. Frankly I'd rather have them as a mission voice than the Lotus, although that's primarily me being really tired of her voice after all these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armedpoop Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 It's open for interpretation until DE says so. Have you not played the 2nd dream??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) She had good intentions though. Which were what? No explanation has been given why the tenno are still sleeping. Because they are safer when they in their second dream, controlling (or living) the Warframe, faraway from any direct danger. The same reason why she hide the Reservoir (placed on the Orokin Moon, trapped in the Void) from the Sentients. But why didnt she wake the Tenno up? That's the question. The Tenno couldn't hang out awake in the Moon? She "wanted kids" but it wasnt until the kids were in danger that the kids actually appeared. She was happy with having an army of drones running around. Why? Why not the kids hanging out with her on the Moon? Edited December 7, 2015 by Mak_Gohae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artekkor Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If "Lotus" isnt evil, how come she never woke the tenno up? She kept the charade going, that's pretty evil. When you want to keep something secret, you keep it so secret that nobody knows it. Even those who should. Not like it did much difference for the Tenno. We were using warframes and we still do. Just now we have our real body sitting deep inside the orbiter. And we have to think of its protection now. The only 2 things we gained from all of this: the fact that we know the truth and focus abilities due to us remembering who we really are. Last one is the only real advantage we gained from waking up and finding out the truth. Was it worth it? You to decide. And to the OP - i know it's hard to accept, but this kid inside the Orbiter IS you. Warframes are just remote controlled robots made from Orokin knows what. This quest ultimately destroys "Lotus is evil" concept to the core. We are children. She's ours foster Mother. And as any loving mother - she will do anything to protect us. Even lie to us, if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapt0rman Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Have you not played the 2nd dream??? I did, and what half the playerbase saw as the tenno maintaining a link without direct connection to the frame or the chair, the other half saw as the frame acting on it's own will. there's merit to both theories (from everything I've seen I still believe the latter), but it's up in the air until DE continues the story. Edited December 7, 2015 by rapt0rman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaineHeresy Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 Which were what? No explanation has been given why the tenno are still sleeping. But why didnt she wake the Tenno up? That's the question. The Tenno couldn't hang out awake in the Moon? She "wanted kids" but it wasnt until the kids were in danger that the kids actually appeared. She was happy with having an army of drones running around. Why? Why not the kids hanging out with her on the Moon? I see two possible answers, that are not exclusive to eachother. 1) She is over-protective to the point of obsession, like a parent who wraps their kid in bubble wrap. 2) She fears a potential disconnect between Tenno and Warframe. If Warframe really do have even the slightest semi-consciousness, the awareness of the Tenno controlling them that they are not actually the Warframe may interfere with Transference. That could have negative effects on the Tenno and may also cause the Warframe to go rogue. I feel like this may be what happened to Chroma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athros Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) But why didnt she wake the Tenno up? That's the question. The Tenno couldn't hang out awake in the Moon? She "wanted kids" but it wasnt until the kids were in danger that the kids actually appeared. She was happy with having an army of drones running around. Why? Why not the kids hanging out with her on the Moon? She didn't because they are safer to be trapped inside a lucid-dream state called the Second Dream. It's already stated in the lines of the quest, that their power was too much to bear - for themselves and everybody near them. That's why the Orokin put what Margulis' knowledge about the Transference into action, to control them against the Sentients and at the same time, protect themselves (the Orokin) from their (the Tenno) power. They are in danger because Hunhow is reactivated again, caused by the disturbed ancient artifact (which is actually Hunhow bones') dug by Tyl Regor. And if he doesn't know where Lotus put the Reservoir, the Tenno would still be safe and sound. Thanks to Stalker (and trap set by Hunhow himself on the excavation site) though, Hunhow now knows where they are. When the Stalker arrives there, the Orokin Moon is still trapped in the Void, where Hunhow himself cannot enter. When Lotus desperately needs to evacuate the Tenno/Operator from the Reservoir our of reach of the Stalker, she have no choice but to get them out of the Orokin Moon by moving it out of the Void, and that's the point where Hunhow sent his fragments to Moon. Edited December 7, 2015 by Athros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Knight Raime Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If "Lotus" isnt evil, how come she never woke the tenno up? She kept the charade going, that's pretty evil. She isn't evil because DE states so. Better not continue to think down this path or you'll just get your precious head cannon broken again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jc1011 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Ladies and gents remember, our character Tenno the kids thought that they were the Warframes, that they were inside the suits. Edited December 7, 2015 by Jc1011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xndo Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 My takeaway from all of this is that the Lotus is really our only option from here on out. From everything that has occurred to us in the past year+ we kinda have to just listen to what she says. I'd rather trust her than side with Grineer or Corpus or god forbid Salad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) She isn't evil because DE states so. Better not continue to think down this path or you'll just get your precious head cannon broken again. DE says stuff that goes on to change later on so what they say is meaningless until it appears in-game. And in-game she isnt looking like an angel. And that's no head canon. Edited December 7, 2015 by Mak_Gohae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShuNerva Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If "Lotus" isnt evil, how come she never woke the tenno up? She kept the charade going, that's pretty evil. Dude you the quest already said so why she did not wake them up. Its to SAVE them from any enemies especially the sentients. By keeping them in the void, Hunhow cannot go in where he is one of the dangerous enemies out there. If the Tenno or the operator is kept in the liset, then its easier for Hunhow to destroy all the tenno. Even stalker could get into the liset without much hassle lol. Imagine the sentients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Dude you the quest already said so why she did not wake them up. Its to SAVE them from any enemies especially the sentients. By keeping them in the void, Hunhow cannot go in where he is one of the dangerous enemies out there. If the Tenno or the operator is kept in the liset, then its easier for Hunhow to destroy all the tenno. Even stalker could get into the liset without much hassle lol. Imagine the sentients The Old War ended thousands of years ago, why do thousands of years later do we still need to sleep? Why couldn't we chill on the moon awake? Why wasnt she actively searching for her pops to kill him so the tenno are no longer in danger? The only reason the Tenno are now on their ships is because her inactivity. This story is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shehriazad Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I'd like to think THIS:-Tenno had powers so great that it would have destroyed their own bodies (confirmed as of Second Dream)-Warframes were forged around the Tenno (says it in some Codex entry)And now here is my guess:-When the first batch of Tenno were given those frames...they had to come with certain "personalities" that fit those Tenno...why? Well, as far as they Tenno are concerned, they are just dreaming. And in most cases you will dream as yourself. So in order to not alienate the Tenno and possibly weaken/break their link....Warframes have been programmed or conditioned to MATCH the personality of those Tenno.^^This means that yes, Warframes have a personality...but that personality is artificial...what you see in your Warframe is likely just the artificial "ghost" of the first Tenno. Tenno, too became more adapt and the Orokins' tools improved over time....thus later on Warframes could just be mass produced and everything was just copied...so every time a Tenno now uses a "foreign" Warframe...the artificial personality will shine through. That is what I think of it...so yes, Warframes have a personality...but it's about as real as Nicki Minajs' butt. (not very) Edited December 7, 2015 by Shehriazad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now