Rhino's Rework Is Actually Pretty Lackluster.... He Needs To Be Buffed!

[Zarozian]

Can you explain the connection here to everyone else? Why does "Excal does damage with Blind and Exalted Blade" mean Rhino should get 500 armor?

 

Atlas may have 450 armor but he has no self-defensive skills like Iron Skin. Valkyr has 600 armor and does have a self-defensive skill, but it's her ultimate. You're wanting Rhino to have 500 armor, when his self-defensive skill is his second ability, has a 250% armor multiplier (in addition to power strength), converts all damage taken into health for 3 seconds after being cast, and is easily recastable with the Iron Shrapnel augment.

 

Do you not realize how over-the-top that is? It's completely and totally unnecessary. If you were to add Ironclad Charge into the mix, Rhino would have no rivals at all. No one could come close to him in EHP.

He gets Tectonic which is also usable as a damage ability.

 

Exactly why on earth would rhino even require a buff anyway?

 

Charge is much easier to use now that duration affects it instead of range, the synergy with Ironskin is not even needed but sure, why not.

Iron Skin finally scales well and with iron shrapnel can be recasted when needed.

Roar is a Flat damage boost

His stomp has a 25M base Stun that is now recastable.

 

 

He doesn't need a buff, would roar drawing aggro be nice? Yes it would however he doesn't need anything at this point. If you want to compare his armour to other tanks yes his Armour is low however that is almost irrelevant as Iron skin

 

-Prevents him from being knockdown/staggered

-Prevents him from being disrupted/other statuses

-Absorbs procs/damage

-Is invincible in first 3 seconds

-Absorbs damage to add to it's health.

 

 

All for 50 energy, with no drain afterward (compared to defy which can still get you knockdown), no restriction (such as hysetria), it also has no set duration ( such as Vex armour) and it's augment allows you to be recast it, providing damage and CC.

 

Because IS Absorbs damage rhino's natural health pool is not even in danger vs other tanks. Rhino is in an good place now, there are other frames that require more attention than him

I can disagree.

 

He still feels exactly the same as though nothing has changed.

Like how come Valkyr gets all that armor when she doesn't really need it?

[Atomic_Noodles]

valkyr gets a higher amount of armor because of her "playstyle" higher health and smaller shields helps her sustain longer in hysteria. Rhino is more of a damage tank while providing CC and a moderate damage buff.

[Buzkyl]

He gets Tectonic which is also usable as a damage ability.

 

I can disagree.

 

He still feels exactly the same as though nothing has changed.

Like how come Valkyr gets all that armor when she doesn't really need it?

 

1.Regardless of how he "feels" he is statistically better. He feels the same because only the numbers were changed, with very little alterations to his mechanics. The synergy between Charge IS/Stomp was but a cherry on top. Fixing ironskin solved most of Rhino's problem, even being able to recast the ultimate is even better.

 

2. Valkyr also has a base 50 shield and the same base health as rhino who has x3 of her shields at 150. Unless you're expecting her to remain in Hysteria all day massive armour is the only way she stays alive and even IF you remain in hysteria you are restricted to melee, which isn't inherently bad however losing range weapons is a disadvantage nonetheless.

 

I "Feel" he performs much better now that his tanking ability  actually works. Arguing using feelings will get you no where ad they're subjective.

[(NSW)BlaineKodos]

Like how come Valkyr gets all that armor when she doesn't really need it?

Because she has functionally no shields.

[Zarozian]

valkyr gets a higher amount of armor because of her "playstyle" higher health and smaller shields helps her sustain longer in hysteria. Rhino is more of a damage tank while providing CC and a moderate damage buff.

 

 

1.Regardless of how he "feels" he is statistically better. He feels the same because only the numbers were changed, with very little alterations to his mechanics. The synergy between Charge IS/Stomp was but a cherry on top. Fixing ironskin solved most of Rhino's problem, even being able to recast the ultimate is even better.

 

2. Valkyr also has a base 50 shield and the same base health as rhino who has x3 of her shields at 150. Unless you're expecting her to remain in Hysteria all day massive armour is the only way she stays alive and even IF you remain in hysteria you are restricted to melee, which isn't inherently bad however losing range weapons is a disadvantage nonetheless.

 

I "Feel" he performs much better now that his tanking ability  actually works. Arguing using feelings will get you no where ad they're subjective.

 

 

Because she has functionally no shields.

 

Okay so can Rhino get more shields?

 

Something to absorb the damage taken when Iron Skin breaks from a heavy attack?

[Kai_Shiba]

Okay so can Rhino get more shields?

 

Something to absorb the damage taken when Iron Skin breaks from a heavy attack?

Why? Just cast iron skin again. Done

[Cubewano]

Because she has functionally no shields.

which doesn't really matter with an armor value that high, valk probably gets more out of that combination than she would from having 100 more base shields and only rhino's armor.

[(PSN)CaulusOuranos]

Want to fix Rhino? Take Iron Skin back to the Mirage Update version. No extra armor or shields necessary.

 

Roar should also have an augment that adds a version of Nekros' Terrify and an augment that aggros all nearby enemies.

 

Also... where were all of you when all the losers were calling for the Rhino nerf? I was the only tenno crying foul!

 

Edit: I used to main Rhino. I learned all about damage 2.0 with him. Somewhere around Mesa's update Iron Skin got nerfed so bad that Rhino can't run T4 anymore. I hardly use him at all, now.

Edited December 12, 2015 by (PS4)CaulusOuranos

[Thewesternwall]

Honestly, I will be pretty happy if DE increases Rhino's Armor to 500 and Rhino Prime's to 600.

 

Being the heaviest and one of the slowest warframe and the supposedly 'tank', I seriously fail to understand how a monkey(Wukong) and a sword warrior(Excalibur) has 225 Armor and Rhino has 190.

Someone doesn't know what a speed rhino is. Rhino speed is crazy im doing t3 captures in under a min

[Abenoki]

Another reminder that Ironclad Charge buffs Iron Skin if cast before IS. 

 

 

actually i think it works after too, when i use IS first then ICC the health goes up 

 

on another note make Rhinos armor 225 and Primes 300 and hes fine

Edited December 12, 2015 by Echoa

[(XBOX)Skode]

Everyone asking for an armour buff confuses me... Mostly as to why? OK maybe make normal Rhino on par with Excalibur as its a toich too low but really iron skin is his damage resistance staple.

I still see him as a players first tank till they get the real deals in Chroma, Atlas or Frost who are much harder to get (and Valkyr who is arguably a great deal less versatile in power set) but he's significantly better with this buff.

[Tulzscha]

Please be advised, we have specific subforums for feedback threads:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[Atomic_Noodles]

thats why Rhino has those 2 V slots. You can mod him with higher shield/health... at least that's my thought as to why he has those 2 V slots.

[FelisImpurrator]

Definitely needs a buff, but you can't do anything significant to him unless you make the player sacrifice the insanely broken speed the Arcane Vanguard provides. Making him powerful, tanky and fast is not balance, and because DE made the mistake of not taking out those helmets way back we now have to deal with them as a factor of imbalance that needs to be taken into account. The only way to buff Rhino without making him OP or nerfing his arcane speed is to force players to choose between speed and tankiness. If Iron Skin while active removed any form of speed buff(especially arcane vanguard's) Rhino has, provided it can be disabled at will, it could preserve both playstyles and allow for any version of him to be buffed without needing to fear too much imbalance.

But arcane vanguard is the funniest helmet in the game.

 

Don't nerf my otherwise completely useless joke build even further! I can't live without at LEAST the option to make a slow, bulky warframe run so fast he nearly breaks the animations. Even if it means being able to do quite literally nothing else well besides enabling a dumbass Knuckles cosplay.

 

He doesn't actually need much of a buff though.

Okay so can Rhino get more shields?

 

Something to absorb the damage taken when Iron Skin breaks from a heavy attack?

This is pretty much the only legit complaint in the thread so far. But more shields is silly; he already has the highest shield+recharge in the game. Or somewhere in top two/three shield cap, but definitely fastest recharge. With that in mind: Roughly half a second of 'shieldgate' style lingering effect when Iron Skin breaks, with an audible shattering/breaking noise, would solve everything instantly - with good timing, one would be able to recast Iron Skin with a buffer to prevent being oneshot out of it, but it wouldn't be something insane like tripling his base armor just because.

Edited December 12, 2015 by FelisImpurrator

[Zarozian]

Why? Just cast iron skin again. Done

 

That moment when your Iron Skin wears off is a moment of life or death! >;(

 

Those shields are what's there to cushion that damage! >;(

 

Want to fix Rhino? Take Iron Skin back to the Mirage Update version. No extra armor or shields necessary.

 

Roar should also have an augment that adds a version of Nekros' Terrify and an augment that aggros all nearby enemies.

 

Also... where were all of you when all the losers were calling for the Rhino nerf? I was the only tenno crying foul!

 

Edit: I used to main Rhino. I learned all about damage 2.0 with him. Somewhere around Mesa's update Iron Skin got nerfed so bad that Rhino can't run T4 anymore. I hardly use him at all, now.

Lad I wasn't around when that stuff happened.

 

Plus most people who disliked the change weren't very vocal about it cause it's Rhino. If anything, you should of been the one to speak up if you were there for it! >;O

 

Someone doesn't know what a speed rhino is. Rhino speed is crazy im doing t3 captures in under a min

Not everyone can have Arcane Vanguard Helmet. Plus only Rhino Prime can achieve that level of speed.

 

Everyone asking for an armour buff confuses me... Mostly as to why? OK maybe make normal Rhino on par with Excalibur as its a toich too low but really iron skin is his damage resistance staple.

I still see him as a players first tank till they get the real deals in Chroma, Atlas or Frost who are much harder to get (and Valkyr who is arguably a great deal less versatile in power set) but he's significantly better with this buff.

I see Excalibur as a player's first DPS.

 

Why doesn't anyone move on from Excalibur? >.>

 

Look you need to understand that there is no first, last, or best or whatever!

 

EVERY FRAME DESERVES TO BE GREAT! IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S HARD OR EASY TO GET IT, OR WHO CAME FIRST OR LAST! OKAY?

 

thats why Rhino has those 2 V slots. You can mod him with higher shield/health... at least that's my thought as to why he has those 2 V slots.

 

It's D slots not V slots. >.>

 

And I already have higher shields and health.

 

It's like all of you are still grinding in the lower levels or something! I am starting to question if some of you guys know what a Sentient is! >;(

[KnightCole]

Yeah, id agree, his little rework was really only an Iron Skin buff.

 

His 1 is still pretty damn weak.  I cant even charge right into 30-40 lvl void mobs and kill them.  His stomp is no more powerful, the charge is just weak sauce....

 

His might be recastable, but when it knocks everything all over the place, kinda makes it's recasting pointless, since your not likely to hit anything. 

 

It should totally be made to be like Atlas's Falcon punch ability....1, Rhino charges around and killing stuff....

 

Then make his 4 more deadly, doing more damage to stuff closer then losing damage to further out targets.

 

Make his 3 last longer, like a minute by default. 

 

 

 

And on a random note, does the Uniaru armor boost passive, affect the power of the Iron skin in a mission?  I currently have 7% boost to armor by that.

Edited December 12, 2015 by KnightCole

[rawr1254]

Meh 20 waves of ODD with 2 embers and a Saryn on the team I had 800 something kills when they had 100 something combined :\ Get gud Rhino players :D But nah seriously the Iron Skin buff was fairly mediocre. I think the problem with dmg that people are having is you need to use Roar first >.> Just spamming RS and ONLY RS is the same as an ember just turning on WoF and sitting there expecting to win the entire game doing nothing. Build him right and you can have a good 2x dmg buff with roar for stomp to CC/kill the enemies and killin the leftovers with your weapon.

Edited December 12, 2015 by rawr1254

[NN13]

The entire point of Stomp isn't the damage. It's the extremely long stun.

 

With the right mods, you can get close to 10 seconds, which is practically an eternity in gameplay. And it's recastable now.

With Maximum efficiency -

 

Rhino stomp for 25 energy and cc for about 16 seconds.

 

RB for 12.5 energy+ EB activation for 6.25 energy + 0.625 drain per second(lets say 5 seconds, should be enough to kill everyone near you) = 21.875 ~ 22 energy for CC and huge damage increase.

 

I will let your fair judgement decide which seems better.

 

And as you said in a later post, how is "increasing Rhino's Armor" related to "Excalibur does not have Iron Skin"?

 

Every Frame has something or the other.

... Why? Why does Rhino need a buff? Give me five good reasons. Please.

I can't and won't give you 5 reasons as to why I want Rhino to have more Armor, mainly because I asked for one buff and not five. Pretty funny that you ask for 5 reasons for one buff.

 

But anyway, as I said, Rhino is the 'supposed' tank, and therefore should have more Armor than Excalibur, Wukong and Frost. And if you don't want a armor buff for Rhino, then reduce the armor of Excalibur,Wukong and Frost to be less than that of Rhino.

 

And since you talk in reasons, can you give me any appropriate reason as to why Excalibur, Wukong and Frost should have more Armor than Rhino?

 

I'm sorry, 3 seconds of invincibility, immunity to knockdowns/status effects and 1.8k recastable health (WITHOUT mods, with mods you can go up to 5k easy) isn't enough for you?

Frost Snowglobe has 5k base health with a 5X armor multiplier and 4 seconds invulnerability and unlike Iron Skin, you can stack Globes to increase its health.

 

What's your point?

 

And of course, you would say that Snow Globe can't move, but I think the ability to protect you whole team and freezes enemies while casting, coupled with the stacking property more than makes up for the immobility.

 

 

*There's a fine line between 'heaviest' and 'tankiest'. You can deploy a fat guy onto a battlefield and he'll die just as fast as a normal guy without any armor. I just consider Rhino to be a fat bum.

 

 

 

Can't be pleased until favorite frame reaches the point of dumbness 2.0 or until it topples Trinity in EHP generation department.

 

Almost everyone's mentality.

It doesn't matter what you think about Rhino. What matters is what DE think about Rhino. And devs have clearly pointed that Rhino is the tank.

 

And if want to argue that Rhino is not the tank, even after this, have a look at -

 

Do you know what 'resilient' means? It means tough. But unfortunately, Frost is more resilient than Rhino. And don't you say again that Rhino's Tankiness is supposed to come from Iron Skin, because Frost has a freaking Globe.

 

Oh, ans increasing Rhino's Armor will totally topple Trinity's EHP or Valkyr's Hysteria, right? You know what, keep your exaggeration to yourself.

And, Trinity is not supposed to be a tank in the first place. Just so you know.

 

Someone doesn't know what a speed rhino is. Rhino speed is crazy im doing t3 captures in under a min

Someone doesn't know the basic idea of how to compare things.

 

Talking specifically about Vanguard Rhino Prime with a Rush.

Meh 20 waves of ODD with 2 embers and a Saryn on the team I had 800 something kills when they had 100 something combined :\ Get gud Rhino players :D But nah seriously the Iron Skin buff was fairly mediocre. I think the problem with dmg that people are having is you need to use Roar first >.> Just spamming RS and ONLY RS is the same as an ember just turning on WoF and sitting there expecting to win the entire game doing nothing. Build him right and you can have a good 2x dmg buff with roar for stomp to CC/kill the enemies and killin the leftovers with your weapon.

Meh, play with my Ember and you won't even see enemies, let alone kill them yourself.

Maybe, play with good players?

Edited December 12, 2015 by NN13

[rawr1254]

Meh, play with my Ember and you won't even see enemies, let alone kill them yourself.

Maybe, play with good players?

[KingTaro]

Edit: I used to main Rhino. I learned all about damage 2.0 with him. Somewhere around Mesa's update Iron Skin got nerfed so bad that Rhino can't run T4 anymore. I hardly use him at all, now.

I mained Rhino since Closed Beta and he's still my main.

Having 70%-80% of time used on Rhino (+Prime), I understand the frame really well.

 

He can deal with high level content just fine.

Solo'd my Sorties (even the Corpus Defense mission of 20 waves full of Nullifiers and Eximus units).

 

As a huge Rhino fan, all the buffs are welcome for my part. Why would I be against it?

But saying that he can't do T4 is really pushing it. T4 is a joke for Rhino. è_é

[YasaiTsume]

Someoen show OP the 1.3 mil Iron Skin

[NN13]

 

Meh, play with my Ember and you won't even see enemies, let alone kill them yourself.

Maybe, play with good players?

 

I am not even gonna act like 'you', but I would like to point out 2 things -

 

1. It seems its ok if you assume that most people here are bad Rhino players and you the the only good one, although, you became offended when I said that maybe, just maybe, the Embers you had in your team were not good enough. Pretty hypocritical.

 

2. We are not asking for a Stomp buff. Maybe if you took the time to read the thread instead of boasting, you would have known that.

[NN13]

Someoen show OP the 1.3 mil Iron Skin

That's a rather specific situation and should not be considered when 'logically' comparing things, don't you think?

[Cyandana]

...

 

Apparently not many have realized that you can FUEL RHINO'S IRON SKIN WITH EXPLOSIVE SELF DAMAGE.

 

Use a Penta/Kulstar/Talons/CE Hikou Prime/Ogris whatever to fuel your iron skin, use the syndicate augment so you can denoate/reapply whenever.

 

You can now sacrifice power strength for other stats.

 

Keep strength high enough so you that your roar doesn't suck, if your group doesn't need the damage, consider over extended for larger stomp radius.

 

Have taken Rhino into many endless T4 / LoR raids with him performing just fine, 

[FelisImpurrator]

Apparently not many have realized that you can FUEL RHINO'S IRON SKIN WITH EXPLOSIVE SELF DAMAGE.

 

Use a Penta/Kulstar/Talons/CE Hikou Prime/Ogris whatever to fuel your iron skin, use the syndicate augment so you can denoate/reapply whenever.

Well, hah, now Rhino's a selfish Trinity who doesn't need Quick Thinking... or duration on the limited invincibility ability. Slow clap.