Can Valkyr Be Changed To Take Damage During Hysteria?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

A couple things that could be done:

1. Allow her health to drop to 1 while in Hysteria, but make her technically invulnerable. (Possibly reduce her armor too?)

2. After a period of not taking damage, greatly increase her energy drain.

These wouldn't be too helpful alone, but might be together or with other changes.

[Inarticulate]

Remove Hysteria's invulnerability. Remove the damage counter for how much damage Valkyr takes on disabling Hysteria.

 

While Hysteria is active, Valkyr's Armor is set to a fixed value (unaffected by mods) for calculating damage, and her Health cannot drop below 2. Valkyr deals increased damage when her Health is lower, but also drains more Energy (affected by her actual Armor value).

 

Valkyr's attacks while Hysteria is active still restore her Health as a fraction of the damage dealt, but probably at a smaller fraction than currently so that she can actually maintain low health.

[Tsukinoki]

Say have 95% damage resistance? Getting energy back from rage while in that mode would be dope.

And then she is an objectively worse chroma.

Chroma can get 99% DR and a massive buff to all of his damage and isn't limited to melee.

With the change you are suggesting Valklyr would get a 95% DR and be limited to melee with no other benefits.

It would push her to being the worst frame in the game at that point.

Her ultimate would become a hindrance to use with absolutely no upsides.

She loses access to her ranged weapons and is instead limited to a 1 meter melee range and would still die quickly with nothing really that can save her.

The only thing that keeps hysteria viable at all is its godmode.

Without that it's a useless ability as it stands and would just hurt her instead of being useful.

If you want to remove the godmode from hysteria she needs something to make up for being forced into melee range, which means a complete re-work of all of her abilities.

Not just removing the only thing that keeps her ultimate viable.

[ashrah]

 valkys is very balanced....... ppl are just bored and type on forum suggestions nerf that nerf this..... lets play game and have fun

[Sakatchi]

How bout you just deal with the fact valkyr gets timed immortality, and is balanced out by the fact she cannot engage more than one target at a range, and cannot use her guns.

[Senoinya]

[DSMatticus]

So, let's run through Valkyr and her abilities:

 

Rip line is a party trick.

 

War cry is a melee speed buff (so only valkyr and excalibur really care), percentage-based armor buff (so most frames that aren't valkyr don't care), and enemy speed debuff (it's no molecular prime).

 

Paralysis is abysmal crowd control.

 

Hysteria forces you use an incredibly short range melee attack, gives you Excalibur-tier damage (i.e. end-game viable damage), and turns on godmode.

 

I have bolded the only two things that make Valkyr worth playing. If you took away godmode, you'd have Excalibur, except without the ranged attacks or radial blind. If that sounds awful to you, that's because it would be.

 

So let's talk about what Valkyr can use her Excalibur-tier damage and godmode for, and if it's a problem or not. Well, she can... go on nearly any grineer or infested mission in the game and not die ever. Realistically, corpus gets a lot harder once there are 3-4 nullifiers alive at once (which will happen if you take her to a corpus sortie, for example), but doable up to that point and totally manageable before that. But here's a question no one really ever thinks to ask: what is not dying actually good for? Well, it becomes really easy to sustain your DPS, but because of her abysmal range Valkyr isn't actually a DPS beast to begin with. She can't really defend a point very well, because she has neither range nor AoE - to take care of enemies she pretty much has to stay mobile and aggressive. So what is valkyr? And the answer is... she's a failsafe. If you have a Valkyr on your team, you are giving up a slot for a warframe that could have been used for DPS, crowd control, or utility to have a teammate who will be able to revive someone or run for life support under almost any amount of pressure.

 

Is that useful? Yes.

 

Is that broken? Of course not. It's really rather tame compared to Trinity's "I break the energy economy in half and give everyone 99% damage reduction" or Loki's "enemies get so mad that they can't find me that they beat eachother in the face with sticks" or Mirage's "did somebody say stunlock the entire map? CAN DO, PAL."

[Terrahero]

I just do not understand why people are so fixated on Valkyr's Hysteria.

 

So she can run a certain mission, against certain enemies, really well when alone while being mediocre or outright poor in other missions. That's not news, there are other frames who excell at certain missions or against certain enemies as well.

Valkyr's only using Hysteria and not doing anything at all to help the team is not a problem with Valkyr, anyone can be useless on any frame if they are a useless player.

 

At least Valkyr's arent ruining other peoples fun. Like the umpteenth time you do a mission, some Ember joins and claims 90% of the damage and kills by pressing only 4 at the start and sprinting ahead. Making it a very boring experience for the other 3 players, and Ember is by no means the only frame that hogs all the action like that. Excalibur clears rooms before he even enters them. I can't be the only one who feels this way, whenever i want to play my Ember i get a lot of people dodging.

Apparently other people are also getting sick of sitting on the side-lines, hoping to get a kill here and there, and maybe a tiny sprinkling of that new Focus.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

So, let's run through Valkyr and her abilities:

 

Rip line is a party trick.

 

War cry is a melee speed buff (so only valkyr and excalibur really care), percentage-based armor buff (so most frames that aren't valkyr don't care), and enemy speed debuff (it's no molecular prime).

 

Paralysis is abysmal crowd control.

 

Hysteria forces you use an incredibly short range melee attack, gives you Excalibur-tier damage (i.e. end-game viable damage), and turns on godmode.

 

I have bolded the only two things that make Valkyr worth playing. If you took away godmode, you'd have Excalibur, except without the ranged attacks or radial blind. If that sounds awful to you, that's because it would be.

 

So let's talk about what Valkyr can use her Excalibur-tier damage and godmode for, and if it's a problem or not. Well, she can... go on nearly any grineer or infested mission in the game and not die ever. Realistically, corpus gets a lot harder once there are 3-4 nullifiers alive at once (which will happen if you take her to a corpus sortie, for example), but doable up to that point and totally manageable before that. But here's a question no one really ever thinks to ask: what is not dying actually good for? Well, it becomes really easy to sustain your DPS, but because of her abysmal range Valkyr isn't actually a DPS beast to begin with. She can't really defend a point very well, because she has neither range nor AoE - to take care of enemies she pretty much has to stay mobile and aggressive. So what is valkyr? And the answer is... she's a failsafe. If you have a Valkyr on your team, you are giving up a slot for a warframe that could have been used for DPS, crowd control, or utility to have a teammate who will be able to revive someone or run for life support under almost any amount of pressure.

 

Is that useful? Yes.

 

Is that broken? Of course not. It's really rather tame compared to Trinity's "I break the energy economy in half and give everyone 99% damage reduction" or Loki's "enemies get so mad that they can't find me that they beat eachother in the face with sticks" or Mirage's "did somebody say stunlock the entire map? CAN DO, PAL."

Well said and if it were not for a recent experience I would completely agree. I mean I do agree but with a caveat. I'd like for her to have a smal health drain while hysteria is active. Still immune to enemy dmg but loses a set amount of health over time. (Maybe something like 5 health per sec. Would need testing) This would be completely offset by the life gain inherent from the claws as long as the player continued shredding things. It would also deter people from just setting the controller down and going to fix a sandwich with the mindset "I'm valkyr I can't die till my energy runs out Ive got more than enough time to take a ten min break."

It would encourage the player to be very aggressive which really fits her style anyway. In fact an aggressive and active valkyr prob wouldn't even notice at all. Plus maybe having a minor downside like that would stop a lot of e post like these.

[Alineah]

Well said and if it were not for a recent experience I would completely agree. I mean I do agree but with a caveat. I'd like for her to have a smal health drain while hysteria is active. Still immune to enemy dmg but loses a set amount of health over time. (Maybe something like 5 health per sec. Would need testing) This would be completely offset by the life gain inherent from the claws as long as the player continued shredding things. It would also deter people from just setting the controller down and going to fix a sandwich with the mindset "I'm valkyr I can't die till my energy runs out Ive got more than enough time to take a ten min break."

It would encourage the player to be very aggressive which really fits her style anyway. In fact an aggressive and active valkyr prob wouldn't even notice at all. Plus maybe having a minor downside like that would stop a lot of e post like these.

 

what will happen if the health reaches 1? does it go below and kill her? i mean imagine you needing to use hysteria in a emergency because your health is dangerously low but the same mechanic that supposed to help you kills you instead.

[Synitare]

Supposed to is the problem. Valkyr is just another version of those noobs that use Loki as an Im too scared to fight so let me go invisible and remove everyone weapons, where Valkyr is Im too scared to fight let me only focus on the efficiency of Hysteria and not the rest of my skills and survive on only godmode for 40+ minutes then tell my team who has 20x my kills GG!!

 

Opposed to everyone else that hides behind Frosts Snow Globe for the duration of the mission, never moving, while Trin casts EV so the Nuker du Jour can turn on their "spam 2/3/4" macro, jumping every 59 seconds?

Edited December 15, 2015 by Synitare

[__Kanade__]

I've always loved Valkyr, got all her parts the same day she was released. I have nothing bad to say about her, she has good team presence with her buff and Hysteria also acts as a line a of defense which fits her theme very well when you consider the background she comes from.

 

But if I had to choose between her ult and Excaliburs, I would pick Excaliburs for obvious reasons, but the drawback is that he takes damage and isn't exactly the tankiest frame or the most ideal frame to bring into T4 unless your really skilled at using him.

 

But Valkyr just shrugs it off like a mosquito bite.

Edited December 15, 2015 by __Kanade__

[Latiac]

Here we go. another nerf hysteria thread incoming.

[Madraz]

Well as far as i've played Valkyr, she is immune to all damage, immune to all forms of stuns and knockdowns, immune to energy drains, one shot kill every enemy pretty much until the rest of the team gives out, indefinedly, as you barely lose any energy. Yes Chroma can become almost invincible and dish out pretty much the same damage output, but atleast chroma requires to have shields when activating his time limited immortality and has a time window to die. Chroma can be knocked down and is not immune to energy drain or energy removal from ancients. Valkyr simply feels god mode.

 

The ultimate needs rework, most definedly. I dont support this 95% damage reduction though. The ultimate needs its own mechanics instead of another slap like that.

 

For example, you could get armor bonus when you activate the ultimate and whenever you attack an enemy your damage increases but your armor bonus drops slightly. That way you can still be on demand ambulance and you'd get to have high risk high reward berserk gameplay for super high damage output. You could even build for armor and hp instead of just flat out power strength and effiency.

 

Edit: All suggestions of health draining while hysteria is on, or losing it in some other way, and getting more damage the lower the health is are good in my opinion. Valkyr needs the berserk feel back, improved.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Madraz

[rawr1254]

 

For example, you could get armor bonus when you activate the ultimate and whenever you attack an enemy your damage increases but your armor bonus drops slightly. That way you can still be on demand ambulance and you'd get to have high risk high reward berserk gameplay for super high damage output. You could even build for armor and hp instead of just flat out power strength and effiency.

I think that sounds great but instead it'll be a flat armor/dmg boost. And then Any enemy killed increases the armor/dmg buff and then starts to drain if the melee multiplier resets. So lets say when activated 200% armor buff and 100% dmg buff. The dmg buff caps at around 500% but the armor buff can increase infinitely. If you stop attacking the buff drains 1 tick per second and the dmg tick drains right away instead of being linked to the total ticks. So lets say 5 ticks would max the dmg buff but you have 20 ticks of armor buff. The dmg buff would be back to base in 5 seconds.

 

I only say for it to be like that way cause your way it's like a fighter who has a ton of power but gets weak really quick. People want her to sitll be crazy durable.

Edited December 15, 2015 by rawr1254

[Madraz]

I think that sounds great but instead it'll be a flat armor/dmg boost. And then Any enemy killed increases the armor/dmg buff and then starts to drain if the melee multiplier resets. So lets say when activated 200% armor buff and 100% dmg buff. The dmg buff caps at around 500% but the armor buff can increase infinitely. If you stop attacking the buff drains 1 tick per second and the dmg tick drains right away instead of being linked to the total ticks. So lets say 5 ticks would max the dmg buff but you have 20 ticks of armor buff. The dmg buff would be back to base in 5 seconds.

 

I only say for it to be like that way cause your way it's like a fighter who has a ton of power but gets weak really quick. People want her to sitll be crazy durable.

 

Not a fighter, a berserk. Berserk is usually high health pool durable character who gets more powerful the more he/she takes damage and uses abilities to get life back and dish even more damage out. My suggestion works so you could still be only tank for few minutes if you wanted, but if you wanted to use the ultimate for engaging gameplay you would get more power out of her without making her too squishy. That way Valkyr would become more dangerous the longer the fight takes hold and if shes constantly not fighting then she "calms down" and becomes tankier instead.

 

If we need to talk numbers i'd say she'd have something like 200% flat armor increase that is not affected by power strength, and increase her damage by 20% per hit while lowering her armor by 5% per hit and have the damage be affected by strength ofcourse. Dont forget hysteria has life steal build into it, so you SHOULD take damage to take advantage of this, and make it revolve around taking hits, becoming more dangerous, and stealing the life back. And well i think her damage output would need little bit tweaking as in its current state every hit you do deals 60k damage, so the damage bonus would not even be needed unless you go 3h survivals.

With all the new passives on newest and reworked warframes, valkyr could have innate health to energy passive to force the berserk aspect even more.

 

Edit: And yeah, have the effects start to revert if she doesnt have melee multiplier going on, same space/slower/faster idk. This could be affected by duration to allow you to choose your playstyle more. High duration to keep up the damage or low duration to revert to tank faster.

"whoops i'm getting squishier time to chill for few seconds"

Edited December 15, 2015 by Madraz

[rawr1254]

Not a fighter, a berserk. Berserk is usually high health pool durable character who gets more powerful the more he/she takes damage and uses abilities to get life back and dish even more damage out. My suggestion works so you could still be only tank for few minutes if you wanted, but if you wanted to use the ultimate for engaging gameplay you would get more power out of her without making her too squishy. That way Valkyr would become more dangerous the longer the fight takes hold and if shes constantly not fighting then she "calms down" and becomes tankier instead.

 

If we need to talk numbers i'd say she'd have something like 200% flat armor increase that is not affected by power strength, and increase her damage by 20% per hit while lowering her armor by 5% per hit and have the damage be affected by strength ofcourse. Dont forget hysteria has life steal build into it, so you SHOULD take damage to take advantage of this, and make it revolve around taking hits, becoming more dangerous, and stealing the life back. And well i think her damage output would need little bit tweaking as in its current state every hit you do deals 60k damage, so the damage bonus would not even be needed unless you go 3h survivals.

With all the new passives on newest and reworked warframes, valkyr could have innate health to energy passive to force the berserk aspect even more.

Yea but I mean I myself tend to only use her hysteria to gain a bit of lost health back and if you're using a max str eternal war ever with steel fiber + the armor buff from war cry towards endgame even all that armor doesnt cut it. She'll drop like any other frame with higher lvl enemies. Chroma has the armor/dmg buff perfect for himself but for him its receiving damage to deal more dmg/have more armor. She should be the opposite of that. 

 

So lets say you use hysteria and get your dmg to the max but now your armor buff is 0% now it's like fighting with just war cry+steel fiber and that amount of armor just isnt sufficient and no amount of lifesteal will help you against a bombard+heavy gunner+nullifier in your face.

[(PSN)edelbrock443]

How about gains armor for each point of damage dealt? With just a few swipes of her claws she'd have thousands of armor, and after about a minute, potentially millions. But won't be invincible (just theoretically capable of nigh invincibility.), and keeping her heal per hit too.

[Ziegrif]

Sigh...

 

Everything should be able to be damaged and able to die.

I'd do it in a way where Valk took dmg but after her health hits 1 it'd become quick thinking.

So she'd eventually run out of steam.

 

Wu Kong is how Valk should be.

If he wants to be immortal he needs to have Defy on and if you want to melee Primal as well (unless you feel that your melee weapon will do better).

 

Yes Rage does work but if you want to have any sort of decent dmg you'll have pretty high energy consumption meaning in Combat you can replenish your energy easily by just getting hit but outside combat or in downtime you'll fast lose energy forcing you to either disable primal, defy or both to not run out.

 

I do admit that Defy is a crutch. But Hysteria is a wheelchair. Eventually the player needs to leave those training wheels behind if they actually want to advance in skill.

 

Hysteria simply removes the stress of combat and at that point there's no reason to play anymore.

It's like playing DOOM with IDBEHOLDV on.

[Madraz]

Yea but I mean I myself tend to only use her hysteria to gain a bit of lost health back and if you're using a max str eternal war ever with steel fiber + the armor buff from war cry towards endgame even all that armor doesnt cut it. She'll drop like any other frame with higher lvl enemies. Chroma has the armor/dmg buff perfect for himself but for him its receiving damage to deal more dmg/have more armor. She should be the opposite of that. 

 

So lets say you use hysteria and get your dmg to the max but now your armor buff is 0% now it's like fighting with just war cry+steel fiber and that amount of armor just isnt sufficient and no amount of lifesteal will help you against a bombard+heavy gunner+nullifier in your face.

 

Well the point would be not to go 0%, you should be able to manage your armor and power. I'm not saying the values i gave are the best but the concept is good if you ask me. Think Chroma got like 3k-5k armor with 200% or more power strength if you get max vex percentage.

 

In this concept your Valkyr would have say 1200 base armor and with hysteria it would go to 3600 at the start, so maybe change the 200%->300% so you got 4800 at the start. This would give you leeway to drop little bit armor without becoming too squishy.

 

Also, Naramon. :P

 

Edit: Oh and thats not including Warcry armor buff, so yeah it would give you more synergy with your skills and make valkyr feel little bit more alive to play with.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Madraz

[Madraz]

Sigh...

 

Everything should be able to be damaged and able to die.

I'd do it in a way where Valk took dmg but after her health hits 1 it'd become quick thinking.

So she'd eventually run out of steam.

 

Wu Kong is how Valk should be.

If he wants to be immortal he needs to have Defy on and if you want to melee Primal as well (unless you feel that your melee weapon will do better).

 

Yes Rage does work but if you want to have any sort of decent dmg you'll have pretty high energy consumption meaning in Combat you can replenish your energy easily by just getting hit but outside combat or in downtime you'll fast lose energy forcing you to either disable primal, defy or both to not run out.

 

I do admit that Defy is a crutch. But Hysteria is a wheelchair. Eventually the player needs to leave those training wheels behind if they actually want to advance in skill.

 

Hysteria simply removes the stress of combat and at that point there's no reason to play anymore.

It's like playing DOOM with IDBEHOLDV on.

 

+1

 

A game needs a fail condition, otherwise you cant really win either. Currently Valkyr ignores 90% of the game mechanics that are implemented to bring difficulty or challenge and actual gameplay. Such as MOA stomp shockwave, which you normally have to avoid or jump over, which gives a good feeling when you do that btw, Valkyr ignores it completely. I wouldnt that really but, when you're also immune to everything else the game has to offer theres no point. /cheats=on /god=on /instakill=on /immune=on /staggers=off /stuns=off /unlimitedenergy=on

[Pro3Display]

+1

 

A game needs a fail condition, otherwise you cant really win either. Currently Valkyr ignores 90% of the game mechanics that are implemented to bring difficulty or challenge and actual gameplay. Such as MOA stomp shockwave, which you normally have to avoid or jump over, which gives a good feeling when you do that btw, Valkyr ignores it completely. I wouldnt that really but, when you're also immune to everything else the game has to offer theres no point. /cheats=on /god=on /instakill=on /immune=on /staggers=off /stuns=off /unlimitedenergy=on

oh valkyr is immortal? too bad cryopod isn't....

oh valkyr is immortal? too bad you didn't hack that spy terminal in time

oh valkyr is immortal? too bad capture target got away (meh example but w/e)

oh valkyr is immortal? too bad hijack objective isn't (though enemies never really shoot it) and you got ~0 shields to move it

oh valkyr is immortal? too bad exterminate, sabotage(except earth, but for earth look hijack) and especially excavation doesn't have lose condition at all

etc.

valkyr is not at fault for missions that do not have a fail condition and she cant protect defense objectives like frost.

why don't you ask for removal of snowglobe? oh right, because you like to win. i know you do. you are not a man if you don't.

and because you like to win, you hate it when someone wins it instead of you.

and if you cant win by rules you play dirty (read "cry for nerf")

Edited December 15, 2015 by Pro3Display

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

what will happen if the health reaches 1? does it go below and kill her? i mean imagine you needing to use hysteria in a emergency because your health is dangerously low but the same mechanic that supposed to help you kills you instead.

Yes she would die if not atking enemies with her claws for the life steal. You would have to be more proactive than reactive. Activate it before your health gets too low. Besides even if you health is very low it take 1 maybe 2 hits to steal enough health to completely fill you back up.

I thought about maybe just deactivating hysteria if the health gets to 2 but that leaves you in just as bad of a situation. Loosing 5 health per second it would take a long time for her to die in hysteria and it would mean that for the entire time the valkyr was standing there doing nothing bc any atk would fill her health.

Edited December 15, 2015 by (XB1)DRKing7287

[VisionAndVoice]

Originally, Hysteria worked like this - Valkyr is still invincible, but after the Hysteria ends all the damage she took during that time hits her at once. This sounds interesting, remind me why have they turned it into a straight invincibility?

[Tsukinoki]

Originally, Hysteria worked like this - Valkyr is still invincible, but after the Hysteria ends all the damage she took during that time hits her at once. This sounds interesting, remind me why have they turned it into a straight invincibility?

Few caveats:

-First it only hurt you if there was a "marked' enemy nearby that you hadn't killed before the ability ended.

Meaning that if you killed everyone, or more commonly ran far enough away from enemies before your ability ended you never suffered any of the damage you soaked up.

-Second it still does that.

You know that counter in the upper right that appears if you get shot while under hysteria?  Get shot a lot, hug an enemy and wait for him to glow your energy color and then end your ability.

And you'll suffer a portion of that damage you soaked up.

That damage that would be applied to you when hysteria dropped was only ever a problem if you got surprised by a nullifier.

Why?  Because by default the aura that 'marks' enemies is only 5 meters in radius, making it very easy to back-peddle out of its range and therefore 'un-mark' an enemy before your hysteria died.

Secondly, if you go for maximum duration the narrow minded mod reduced its size to 1.7 meters making it even easier to avoid marking enemies.

That mechanic was never interesting because it almost never came into play.

All it did was cause Valkyr to run away from nullifiers because if she stepped into the bubble she would suddenly suffer 30K+ damage and instantly go down.

It never hit you with all the damage either, only a certain percentage of it.

And again that was only if the ability ended and you were within 5 meters of the enemy (or 1.7 with narrow minded).

Outside of the random nullifier popping out of a spawn closet you were next to I never saw anyone hit by the soaked damage.

They would just go "Oops, Hysteria only has 10 seconds left..." and run off into a lonely corner wait for the ability to end and then re-cast it without suffering any damage and then go right back to killing again, just repeating that every time their ability was about to end.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Tsukinoki