The Synoid Simulor Appears To Really Need A Rebalance

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Yeah, its not that hard to exactly the same thing with even the regular tigrus + a bunch of other weapons out there. WITHOUT mirage I might add.

You can't use Mirage as a basis to nerf something when she makes EVERYTHING OP. The fact she has that power is another potential issue, but for this debate you have to look at the weapon on its merits alone.

Really? I don't think there's a single weapon in the game that you can do exactly the same as in that video. Probably you can do it in the same time window with some other weapons, but that would at least involve some skill (precise aiming and movement) It perfectly shows what's wrong with S Simulor, you basically don't even have to aim. Even with Tonkor you have to actually hit enemies with grenades. With Simulor you don't even have to try, you just go around the map, spreading your energy balls and it will kill everyone for you. If it's defensive type of mission, you just aim in one spot (or aim at 2-3 spots periodically) and keep shooting, and it kills everyone for you.

 

Having the similar effect with mindless mashing on one weapon and actual skillful play with the other doesn't mean that the weapons are equally powerful. Although I still believe the only weapon that can compare to Simulor in destuctive power is Tonkor, but even that requires more aiming. And both of them need some tweaking.

[StinkyPygmy]

Really? I don't think there's a single weapon in the game that you can do exactly the same as in that video. Probably you can do it in the same time window with some other weapons, but that would at least involve some skill (precise aiming and movement) It perfectly shows what's wrong with S Simulor, you basically don't even have to aim. Even with Tonkor you have to actually hit enemies with grenades. With Simulor you don't even have to try, you just go around the map, spreading your energy balls and it will kill everyone for you. If it's defensive type of mission, you just aim in one spot (or aim at 2-3 spots periodically) and keep shooting, and it kills everyone for you.

 

Having the similar effect with mindless mashing on one weapon and actual skillful play with the other doesn't mean that the weapons are equally powerful. Although I still believe the only weapon that can compare to Simulor in destuctive power is Tonkor, but even that requires more aiming. And both of them need some tweaking.

Since when do you need to aim or have any noteworthy skill as far as aiming goes with mirage?

My point is, the fact they're using HOM kind of makes the argument null and void when it significantly increases damage output, blast radius, and the ability to stack orbs, which the similor relies on to do damage.

 

Thats like comparing the power of 4 nukes lunched at one spot at the same time, over one nuke launched at the same spot by itself. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[IceColdHawk]

Really? I don't think there's a single weapon in the game that you can do exactly the same as in that video. Probably you can do it in the same time window with some other weapons, but that would at least involve some skill (precise aiming and movement) It perfectly shows what's wrong with S Simulor, you basically don't even have to aim. Even with Tonkor you have to actually hit enemies with grenades. With Simulor you don't even have to try, you just go around the map, spreading your energy balls and it will kill everyone for you. If it's defensive type of mission, you just aim in one spot (or aim at 2-3 spots periodically) and keep shooting, and it kills everyone for you.

 

Having the similar effect with mindless mashing on one weapon and actual skillful play with the other doesn't mean that the weapons are equally powerful. Although I still believe the only weapon that can compare to Simulor in destuctive power is Tonkor, but even that requires more aiming. And both of them need some tweaking.

I just want to remind you that the simulor actually deals as good as the same damage as the synoid simulor. Simulor is crap tier that nobody uses but synoid simulor deals TONS OF DAMAGE. Okay i understand.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Since when do you need to aim or have any noteworthy skill as far as aiming goes with mirage?

My point is, the fact they're using HOM kind of makes the argument null and void when it significantly increases damage output, blast radius, and the ability to stack orbs, which the similor relies on to do damage.

 

Thats like comparing the power of 4 nukes lunched at one spot at the same time, over one nuke launched at the same spot by itself. 

Even without Mirage, everything I've said there still applies. You don't need to aim with Simulor, you have with other weapons. Simulor still deals just as much damage in huge AoE and can kill through walls, while also staggering all the enemies.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

I just want to remind you that the simulor actually deals as good as the same damage as the synoid simulor. Simulor is crap tier that nobody uses but synoid simulor deals TONS OF DAMAGE. Okay i understand.

The regular simulor complaints were never really ABOUT damage in the past( Pre-Synoid simulor release) it was the det range, mostly. The synoid has WAY more. Aswell as better stats. Way better.

[StinkyPygmy]

Even without Mirage, everything I've said there still applies. You don't need to aim with Simulor, you have with other weapons. Simulor still deals just as much damage in huge AoE and can kill through walls, while also staggering all the enemies.

Without mirage it doesn't apply even remotely on the same scale. So many other weapons easily compete with the Synoid Similor without HOM or any frame buffs, the fact you have to aim a bit better doesn't change that significantly enough to be a noteworthy point.

I mean, Its a launcher for lotus sake, aside from the tonkor, since when have players, in pretty much any game, had to aim with launchers?

Besides, even with the range increase you still have to get in everythings face and make sure your orbs are close enough to stack anytime soon.

Its the polar opposite of a sniper, unpricise mass killy.

Thats the point.

 

Who'd a thunk it?

Edited January 8, 2016 by StinkyPygmy

[IceColdHawk]

The regular simulor complaints were never really ABOUT damage in the past( Pre-Synoid simulor release) it was the det range, mostly. The synoid has WAY more. Aswell as better stats. Way better.

Yeah so what can we see here? A trash weapon finally got it's time to shine. Just like the ignis or supra buffs. Now why not let the weapon shine? WHY put it back to trash again? I don't understand.

 

 

I mean, Its a launcher for lotus sake, aside from the tonkor, since when have players, in pretty much any game, had to aim with launchers?

^

This.

I can move on with my secura penta and oneshot everything in an AoE. Is it OP now too? Seriously, synoid simulor is in no doubt, a great gun, i also really like it. But it's DEFINITELY not overpowered. Wtf. This word (OP) is more overused than a boltor prime used to. 

 

Before i forget, have fun killing juggernaut or most other bosses with this gun. I bet i will be 10x faster with 20 other weapons.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Without mirage it doesn't apply even remotely on the same scale. So many other weapons easily compete with the Synoid Similor without HOM or any frame buffs, the fact you have to aim a bit better doesn't change that significantly enough to be a noteworthy point.

I mean, Its a launcher for lotus sake, aside from the tonkor, since when have players, in pretty much any game, had to aim with launchers?

Besides, even with the range increase you still have to get in everythings face and make sure your orbs are close enough to stack anytime soon.

Its the polar opposite of a sniper, unpricise mass killy.

Thats the point.

Who'd a thunk it?

Wait people aim tonkor? Shet, I just fire both rounds into a crowd and watch it die. Between split chamber, fire storm and heavy cal never had to aim the gun. I guess maybe if its a lone target a few feet away ya might need to aim.

[TheJadrimian]

Having used the Mirage + Synoid Simulor combo myself, and effortlessly trashed hordes of Corpus in Sortie missions, I do feel it could use some tweaking – but only with regard to this combo in particular.

 

The issue primarily seems to be that with Hall of Mirrors the weapon's main limitation (needing multiple shots to form stacks) is overcome. Rather than focusing two or more shots on one point to produce the stacks' large area damage, it can be easily spammed while leaping around the map mindlessly. It's sort of cathartic at first, but soon outstays its welcome.

 

I would suggest that if the orbs launched with the first shot did not combine with each-other, meaning a second shot would need to be made in the same vicinity to form stacks (as when using it with any other frame), it would be less cheesy.

 

 

I've certainly experienced a similar sort of ennui with other launcher weapons, but at the very least they all have some sort of balancing factor – the Penta's self-damage, for instance, will down you with one misplaced shot or unfortunate bounce, and the Tonkor has a very limited clip and requires more aim than most weapons for dealing with a single target. Whilst the Simulor's limited range is a slight issue, most combat in the game takes place at close range anyway, and the mobility afforded to you by not having to aim (as well as the aggro-distraction of Hall of Mirrors) makes it basically a non-issue to close in for hit 'n' run attacks.

[(PSN)CL_Poloboyzz93]

It is OP, it's not going to get nerfed though I think, only the true endgamers know its true potential. 

This may very well be the case.

Having used the Mirage + Synoid Simulor combo myself, and effortlessly trashed hordes of Corpus in Sortie missions, I do feel it could use some tweaking – but only with regard to this combo in particular.

 

The issue primarily seems to be that with Hall of Mirrors the weapon's main limitation (needing multiple shots to form stacks) is overcome. Rather than focusing two or more shots on one point to produce the stacks' large area damage, it can be easily spammed while leaping around the map mindlessly. It's sort of cathartic at first, but soon outstays its welcome.

 

I would suggest that if the orbs launched with the first shot did not combine with each-other, meaning a second shot would need to be made in the same vicinity to form stacks (as when using it with any other frame), it would be less cheesy.

 

 

I've certainly experienced a similar sort of ennui with other launcher weapons, but at the very least they all have some sort of balancing factor – the Penta's self-damage, for instance, will down you with one misplaced shot or unfortunate bounce, and the Tonkor has a very limited clip and requires more aim than most weapons for dealing with a single target. Whilst the Simulor's limited range is a slight issue, most combat in the game takes place at close range anyway, and the mobility afforded to you by not having to aim (as well as the aggro-distraction of Hall of Mirrors) makes it basically a non-issue to close in for hit 'n' run attacks.

Agreed, although not just mirage takes it there, mirage + simulor is a different story altogether, because mirage herself plays a big part in that too, and has her own balance issues. The simple fact is that the synoid itself needs a fix, like you said, the afforded mobility + small tilesets play a nice part along with the gun itself.

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

Funny thing is how you and the OP just started to play the game last month.

Just FYI, Membership on a forum =/= how long you've been playing a game. At least for console players (not sure about PC, it might be directly linked to your warframe account) For example, my forum membership is like 7 month later than I actually started playing the game.

[(PSN)scruffyducky]

The synoid simular on its own is not that great compared to other weapons on their own eg.tonkor viper ect ect .but as with most weapons it changes with combination Warframe abilitys that assist the weapon .at higher levels eg sortie 3 defences or survivals or 100+enemy's of any type ,the simular is up there .i take a mirage well set up and a simple 2forma multi damage type simular to the high end stuff and it does very well .use a pro ember at that level with a tonkor goes alright but the the higher level u go it takes a lot longer to kill,I can easily destroy and dominate the damage ,kill count and damage taken with mirage/simular set up at these higher levels against ember ash chroma tonkor and the list goes on and on .draco and its low level enemy's other frame /weapon combos are competitive only because the combination can handle those levels .but for me at higher levels and if I feel lazy and want easy run I'm running mirage and simular

[Synpai]

 

Can we stay civilized?

 

I'm interested to use the Simulor again.

Didn't strike me as anything overly interesting without a tight map as the vortexes don't last very long for me.

Arctic Eximus nullifiers + bombards.

Surprise Ballistica?

 

You have to get relatively close to make use of the weapon, seems like risk - reward to me.

 

'Trash mods'? So you ran...Hush, Agile AIm, Fast hands, Magazine Warp, Ammo Mutation and other mods that didn't impact your damage?

 

How big is this room that you're clearing? And if in general, doesnt a syndicate proc do that? Pretty sure you could pull it off with plenty of weapons if it's just clearing a room.

 

There are ways, I'm sure to abuse it with frames/party set ups, but isn't that the case for a lot of things?

Questionable to put down every weapon for a weapon that deals magnetic damage, but at least you found something to hold.

 

There are a lot of variables that go into what an 'endless' mission is and what took place during it.

 

Isn't the Saryn reference a bit dated? Even so, are you saying the weapon does excellent in general combat, then falls off like a bolder from a skyscraper like old Saryn? or are you saying it has a lot of utility and usefulness like Saryn now?

 

 

I main Mirage with a HOM and Eclipse build and use only the s.simulor i get over 70% of team damage 99% of the time, only problem is no one will play more than one match with me lol. I hope they dont nerf it but at the same time if they do at least ill use differnt weapons for a change. P.S this combo is amazing for focus gain iv got over 50K in less than an hour doing dark sector excavation.

 

 ..........K

Stats I actually care about are the ones missing since it is a TEAM game: Healing done, Energy restored, Enemies CC'd, etc. Saying you get the most damage consistently != direct correlation to weapon, because for example there could be a Nyx, Hydroid, and Limbo running with you.

 

My favorite weapon is the glaxion, useful weapon. Not so stat worthy.

Edited January 10, 2016 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Removed Removed Post

[DesoPL]

Sancti Tigris needs nerf as well. Is much OP even for sorties.

 

I will post tomorrow my current build on Sancti Tigris, but all i can say now is... Headshoting enemies = Insta dead.

[bubbabenali]

Sancti Tigris needs nerf as well. Is much OP even for sorties.

 

I will post tomorrow my current build on Sancti Tigris, but all i can say now is... Headshoting enemies = Insta dead.

You don't even need to headshot with the Sancti Tigris. 

[Rawbeard]

wait, the simulor clears out entire rooms? how? and doe you want to nerf Ash's Bladestorm next? Because that actually clears out entire rooms with the push of a button.

[dmirtygorachyov]

Sancti Tigris needs nerf as well. Is much OP even for sorties.

 

I will post tomorrow my current build on Sancti Tigris, but all i can say now is... Headshoting enemies = Insta dead.

 

Synoid sim is shoot anywhere= everything is instadead

[Magneu]

While I completely agree that the Synoid Simulor is blatantly overpowered, the problem is what do we change? A regular damage decrease? Decrease in supplemental stats? Figuring out a fair decrease while keeping the weapon strong enough as a MR12 weapon is the tricky part.

 

As for the other gun I've seen mentioned here, the Tonkor, the answer is simple; decrease crit or damage  (or *gasp* introduce more self damage to stop ridiculous point-blanking shotgun style, a la zero skill).

[dmirtygorachyov]

While I completely agree that the Synoid Simulor is blatantly overpowered, the problem is what do we change? A regular damage decrease? Decrease in supplemental stats? Figuring out a fair decrease while keeping the weapon strong enough as a MR12 weapon is the tricky part.

 

As for the other gun I've seen mentioned here, the Tonkor, the answer is simple; decrease crit or damage  (or *gasp* introduce more self damage to stop ridiculous point-blanking shotgun style, a la zero skill).

 

Imo the core issue lies in how the game plays, all the high damage, hard to aim weapons (like synoid and tonkor) are op because enemies move slowly , there are lack of aerial enemies and enemies that flank or surprise us. But if we wanted a bandaid fix, I think reducing AOE but increasing fire rate would be a good temp fix. That way it atleast rewards some precision while not really weakening the weapon.

Edited January 8, 2016 by dmirtygorachyov

[(PSN)Gaelic-_-Flame]

While I completely agree that the Synoid Simulor is blatantly overpowered, the problem is what do we change? A regular damage decrease? Decrease in supplemental stats? Figuring out a fair decrease while keeping the weapon strong enough as a MR12 weapon is the tricky part.

 

As for the other gun I've seen mentioned here, the Tonkor, the answer is simple; decrease crit or damage  (or *gasp* introduce more self damage to stop ridiculous point-blanking shotgun style, a la zero skill).

Good point, I've been thinking about it too, but I guess the first thing we definitely need to do, is remove the ability to kill enemies through walls. Another thing is maybe reduce the stagger effect a bit (not remove it completely, but at least make it a chance to stagger, not 100% stagger) This will at least remove two exploits.

[IceColdHawk]

Good point, I've been thinking about it too, but I guess the first thing we definitely need to do, is remove the ability to kill enemies through walls. Another thing is maybe reduce the stagger effect a bit (not remove it completely, but at least make it a chance to stagger, not 100% stagger) This will at least remove two exploits.

Or why not just instantly trash it using your ideas, making it only have 30 maximum ammo and 20 less damage? So it's just as dead as synoid gammacor and nobody will complain or use it again.

 

I guess we should start enjoying the game and buffing other useless weapons instead of nerfing the good ones, how about that?

[ThePredicament]

It's wonky and its effective ceiling is much lower than A LOT of guns, which makes it risky because it's wonky. It's a good gun but there are faster trash cleaners and harder hitting endgame weapons, not to mention said weapons are easier to deal with.

[IceColdHawk]

It's wonky and its effective ceiling is much lower than A LOT of guns, which makes it risky because it's wonky. It's a good gun but there are faster trash cleaners and harder hitting endgame weapons, not to mention said weapons are easier to deal with.

Finally someone who understands. Thank you. Totally agree.

[Multicom-EN-]

Oh no....Synoid Simulor is so good, please nerf! <<-Looks at Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Hek, Tonkor, Stug (yes, Stug), Aksomati with both Primed crit mods and so many other weapons. 

Synoid Simulor is fine. 

[Chipputer]

Oh no....Synoid Simulor is so good, please nerf! <<-Looks at Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Hek, Tonkor, Stug (yes, Stug), Aksomati with both Primed crit mods and so many other weapons. 

Synoid Simulor is fine. 

Other weapons being broken, in their own right, doesn't make the Synoid fine. It just makes it broken as well.

 

This is neither an agreement or disagreement with your post, this is merely saying that your post is using flawed logic.