Cc Negatively Impacts The Game. (900 Words?)

[KuroNekoXlll]

(edit) The game is too hard without CC (PLOT TWIST)

"The game is balanced around CC forcing you to have it or have a bad time"

This idea came much later in the thread and I love how it has contradicted what I've been saying so far about "not needing CC" yet reaches the same conclusion that CC needs a rework.

In hindsight, I see how this is a greater issue than what I originally thought...

People shouldn't be forced to conform to the meta

The meta...is pretty much that one dimensional CC team comp, the "cheesecake factory" as I like to call it.

As some people have stated, This game is balanced around the idea that "everyone is using cc" and more challenging content is locked away from those who want to play the game their own way.

Raids can't be done without abusing all the game mechanics there are, CC spamming to invincibility to infinite energy. High level excavations are an absolute horror without CC. Ridiculous scaling and bullet hell become more and more unmanageable without CC. etc.

To people who want others to play their own game and not butt into yours, sadly they wish they could but are unable to.

Solutions (work in progress)

>

 

Old Stuff below

----------------------

Boxhead. 

Anyone ever played boxhead? It is an endless survival hoard style shooter flashgame....Seem familiar?

As enemies scaled higher; It was designed to FORCE players OUT of the game. In Warframe, as enemies scaled higher, players DEMANDED more tools to DEAL with stronger enemies (Now you know where powercreep was born). 

The irony is that players neither use nor need these tools (powerful cc) for the high level content where it's genuinely desired.

The reality is we got things that are crazy powerful on high levels to abuse on lower levels.

I can't fault cc tho, it is by nature... an infinitely scaling mechanic. It's how powerful CC is in this game that irks me.

 

CC is absurd.

I'm not sure people fully realize...how silly CC is. .

Warframe is the only game I know... in any genre, where "cc" encompasses a whopping 40~60 meter radius (the whole map) and has a duration equal to the lifespan of the sun all without a meaningful cost attached to it. 

 

We don't need it

Time for a reality check.

I truly believe that we do not need CC of that duration and range. I play other mmos with cc as long as 3 seconds and stuns as short 0.5 seconds. Do we need it to be at the degree where we stun the whole map for a minute? It does not need to be that powerful for the starchart, it's not even needed for much of the void either. 

You could say that it is REQUIRED for facing against infinitely scaling enemies, but how relevant are lvl200 eximus grineer to our lives? How often do we go past wave 20/40 or past 40 minutes in survival? We don't, So why are CC balanced around that? DE's balance cater's to no one!

 

CC is here to stay (clarity for the butthurt).

I'm not advocating that we remove CC. End of story.

 

"Degenerate Gameplay"

Inspired by this thread (check it out): https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/572281-loot-manipulation-powers-are-bad-design-lead-to-degenerate-gameplay/

Here, MJ12 claims loot manipulation leads to "degenerate gameplay" and I believe it is CC that enables it. Without overbearing cc, we can no longer have one dimensional team compositions and strategies. We are presented with many meaningful choices as it is, but is squandered because we choose to camp and harvest enemies, further reinforcing DE's thoughts on diminishing those drop rates just abit further and encouraging us to use such degenerate tactics...It's a awful cycle and I believe revamping CC is the first step to breaking out of it.

 

"Don't like it, don't do it"

"Don't like it, don't do it"

"Don't like it, don't do it"

"Don't like it, don't do it"

"Don't like it, don't do it"

"Don't like it, don't do it" (repeated 6 times to make it easier for people to see)

(Specifically for you folks who say this: It's time to broaden your perspective, the world isn't just about you. Grow up.) 

This is fallacy btw. I hope after reading the rest, you will be convinced that some issues can't just be ignored by people who don't like them as it is relevant to everyone whether you choose to go down the cheese path or not.

 

Harmful to future game design.

"There is no end game content"

Neither did Boxhead, S#&$ just got harder to the point you felt urgency and survival legitimately at stake...Warframe doesn't get harder, it just get's more boring. DE right now CAN'T implement any sort of endgame because the power level of cc inhibits anything from actually be challenging. It is something we CAN'T simply leave in the game untouched. The moment DE releases anything "difficult" like they did with sorties, players will simply fall back on radial disarm or something then come here to say "sorties are too easy". People were forced out of Boxhead due to difficulty, We voluntarily end games because we got bored...

 

Power creep and poor "incomparables"

The existing power level of frames and weapons (primary their "late game cc") impacts our expectations which in turn impacts developer's decision on how they design content.

 

We know what power creep is right? good cuz I dont wanna talk about it.

"Bad" incomparables though, Warframe has seen a fair amount of these. Think of frames like Nekros(prebuff) and Oberon; upon their release...reception was negative. They are perfectly good frames but we found them lacking despite them being incomparables: they offered a different choice players could make rather being a powercreep. But they didnt hold a candle to the 2 most dominant "late game cc" frames: Vauban and Nova.

*This is also seen in weapons btw.

 

Damage abilities and Trinity and efficiency mods

I know I've been mostly picking on cc....but damage/immortal frames are on my radar as well. Yes...those are broken too, maybe that can have it's own thread so don't bring it up here.

 

Moderation (Middle Ground)

Achieving a middle ground is really all I want. 

I didnt come to Warframe expecting Dark Souls, I assure you.

I didnt come to Warframe expecting Attack on Target dummy mmof2p either

However games are not black and white like that...there is a middle ground that can be achieved.

 

 

*credentials, 0 years, 0 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds and non existent degree in game design. fite me m7+1

 

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by KuroNekoXlll

[Kracken]

why are you compering a simple shooter to an action rpg ninja shooter in first place ?!

[KuroNekoXlll]

why are you compering a simple shooter to an action rpg ninja shooter in first place ?!

Because the "simple shooter" has more action than an "action rpg ninja shooter". It's embarassing

Edited January 12, 2016 by KuroNekoXlll

[Lost_Cartographer]

Because the "simple shooter" has more action than an "action rpg ninja shooter". It's embarassing

Sadly true.

 

At least until you go without abusing CC and top notch weaponry, then Warframe is actually a pretty fun shooter!

 

...Except no one really wants challenge, they just want easy stuff that other people for some reason find hard, because it's all about them rewards and being an elitist, not a good player having fun.  We can't have a decent discussion without someone asserting they're superiority in some sense, even if nearly all game play in Warframe is joke level difficult using the best weaponry, mods, and CC spam.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Littleman88

[DiabolusUrsus]

I agree that the current CC meta is disgusting: it twists gameplay into a gear-check (do you have the right mods to enable practically infinite energy?) and sets the difficulty curve right smack-dab in the middle of mindlessly easy and frustrating. It's a matter of keeping enemies that pose a threat to you persistently CC'd, and the scaling just continues until one mis-click or less-than-flawless recast means death.

 

Woohoo. I love watching timers and pressing the button before they finish to refresh. 

 

I am certain that the game would be more interesting to play if Warframe powers were more limited in terms of casts, but were made more powerful to compensate. Of course, it would also be nice to have scaling revamped so that enemies don't get exponential increases to health/armor/etc. The important thing, though, is for DE to set a clear cutoff after which endless modes are no longer fair or balanced and to stick to it. 

[(PSN)Kamranos]

I doubt they will change a game play that more than 50% of the player base is fine with. Also, the abilities in which you are complaining are an inherent part of the game. Warframes have cc abilities...just the way it is and I, for one, enjoy it.

[Ognj]

I do agree that CC in this game has been brought to insane levels: Very long ranges, they last for a lot ( or even infinite ).

And with some pre-made farming CC group the game feels more like WoW, where you just use hotkeys from 1-4, depending on your frame, rather than using movement and abilities combined with gunplay and melee combat.

As OP said, sorties are quite suffering from the CC problem. They are not difficult with frames that can CC to hell and back, and at that point it's not the difficulty that is getting players, but the tediousness ( 20 waves of defence, excavations for 1500 cryotic etc ).

But to just flip the switch and change CC warframes would not end well, not in the players moaning way but more in the way of some enemies even existing ( nullifiers or even disruptors ). A lot of things would have to change, from enemy types to their damage to even player's weapons and mods.

The end game in this game is almost non-existent: Trials for arcanes, PvP and sorties are "counting" as few end-game points but none of them are worthy for their rewards,fun or interesting enough to keep playing, they are not difficult or challenging, but just plain boring and tedious.

[KuroNekoXlll]

I doubt they will change a game play that more than 50% of the player base is fine with. Also, the abilities in which you are complaining are an inherent part of the game. Warframes have cc abilities...just the way it is and I, for one, enjoy it.

Well the issue is... not so much they can render enemies completely immobile and nonthreatening. That is what CC is and it would suck even more if we didnt have it.

The issue is.....why the hell am I able to blind the whole map for upwards 30~60 seconds?

I don't have any fair comparisons right now CC tends to only last a couple seconds at most with relatively small range.

 

Democracy is tyranny of the majority... make's me cry.

But regardless of the majority DE HAS to just slap us in the face, that's how I believe warframe is gonna move forward

Releasing troop diversity won't solve the current problem either. 

Let's list out troop diversity in warframe...

> Bulky grineer with a baton

> Skinny grineer with a baton

> Tall grineer with a baton...

etc.

Edited January 12, 2016 by KuroNekoXlll

[Lost_Cartographer]

I doubt they will change a game play that more than 50% of the player base is fine with. Also, the abilities in which you are complaining are an inherent part of the game. Warframes have cc abilities...just the way it is and I, for one, enjoy it.

The player base can't ask for more interesting enemies but retain their mass, spammable CC capabilities.  The best AI coders in the world can't make an enemy that is blinded+rooted+disarmed+shooting it's own guys a challenge to anyone unless this enemy is immune to virtually all CC (at which point, players cry hax.)  Players need to understand they can't have god-like control of the battlefield and expect things to ever be challenging.  

 

It doesn't work like that.  Somewhere along the way, they'll have to accept that their CC needs to be neutered to have interesting challenges.  Not removed, but it can't cover the entire map and last for minutes while energy flows in like the Niagra Falls themselves are funneling power into each Tenno.  Somewhere along the way, powers broke the game.  We were NEVER meant to spam our abilities indefinitely, that's why we don't have naturally regenerating energy and were expected to find energy orbs.  The balance broke as a result of mixing mods and infinite energy restoration methods, like Trinity or energy pads.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Littleman88

[Plushy]

I see the point you're trying to make but it doesnt convince me. I think ill jusr go back to playing my Nyx and throw chaos on everything that moves and forget I stumbled across this.

[_Medo_]

why do people want everything in the game to be the most extreme of all difficulties.

as you said 

" It's time to broaden your perspective, the world isn't just about you."

not everyone wants to play against level 500 enemies with the weakest of frames and the highest level of challenge. this is why sorties were made in the first place. maybe those suggestions you have could be implemented in a sortie condition ( I mean a condition that decreases some abilities' effectiveness, such as those CC abilities ). 

 

sorties are still new, with time the Devs will make them tougher, they said they are working on that in the last devstream I think. they will keep working on sorties and expanding them and surely making more conditions till they reach a level at which a big enough part of the players is happy with the way it is.

 

Maybe they will be challenging enough to please people who want this challenge, but don't ask to decrease the effectiveness of CC abilities and affect everyone else who just plays the game normally without wanting this much of a challenge. I personally enjoy most of the game the way it is now, with it's easy " joke " difficulty. no need for it to become like almost every other game with people rolling around bragging about their skills, their K/D, and how much of pros they are and things like that.

 

Edit : forgot to mention how much work people put into leveling mods and putting forma for those CC frames they love, so I believe a lot of people would be mad if one of these frames they worked hours for got nerfed )

Edited January 12, 2016 by _Medo_

[(PSN)Ana_Nuann]

Why are you acting like rushing is somehow the favorable mode of play?

It's not. The game needs to become more tactical not less.

[Qynchou]

Sadly true.

 

At least until you go without abusing CC and top notch weaponry, then Warframe is actually a pretty fun shooter!

 

...Except no one really wants challenge, they just want easy stuff that other people for some reason find hard, because it's all about them rewards and being an elitist, not a good player having fun.  We can't have a decent discussion without someone asserting they're superiority in some sense, even if nearly all game play in Warframe is joke level difficult using the best weaponry, mods, and CC spam.

Exactly. 

 

You guys have no idea how hard S#&$ is going to hit the fan in the forums once draco is removed, you havent got a clue.

[KuroNekoXlll]

Why are you acting like rushing is somehow the favorable mode of play?

It's not. The game needs to become more tactical not less.

well it's not... it's suppose to be sarcastic.

 

I agree, this game needs to be more tactical (as long as your definition of... "tactics" is the same as mine).

Ridiculous CC does not make this game more tactical tho

[KuroNekoXlll]

Exactly. 

 

You guys have no idea how hard S#&$ is going to hit the fan in the forums once draco is removed, you havent got a clue.

sliiiightly off topic but read about it here anyway

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/572281-loot-manipulation-powers-are-bad-design-lead-to-degenerate-gameplay/

Devs can create skewed drop tables based on what they expect us to do...What they expect is a team comp consisting of CC and loot manipulation and tweak things accordingly. It's honestly because we do this...that we have no grounds to complain to DE about rng and loot and affinity honestly.

If we arent willing to put in the effort, we might as well put in the time...seems like a fair trade.

Now if we are no longer farming camps and harvesting the hell out of everything with a button...not we can legitimate complain about the state of the drop tables.

Oh uuh, guys... let's not go on tangent off of this

Edited January 12, 2016 by KuroNekoXlll

[venon23]

while i agree with u in terms of CC yea cc is op in this game but also power creep in some warframes/weapons and thats not a good thing at all
normaly warframes that give CC like gods dont have hp or armor at all EX: nyx vauban   well loki have nice cc but have invisibility so make him a bit op overall
but we have also dmg warframes that are off the board  mag vs corpus  nox vs infested and excal overall   and ofc we have also weapons tonkor and a few others power creep is good CC is bad ?? no power creep is also bad all the game is unbalanced ASF 
so if u want too fix things u need too remake the dmg 3.0 the enemy scaling 2.0 and and balanced all the weapons  warframe abilitys and ehp  ... thats not a big problem the problem is how many players the game have ex: 10 players  and 6 of this players love "X" frame  and "Y" weapon  so DE remake this dmg cc all again and frame x and weapon y becomes completely difrente  what u thing the 6/10 players going too do ??  well easy 3 players love the game and will test new stff other 3 will leave  and DE gets only 7/10 players
they are checking the dmg on weapons and remove serration etc etc will this fix the game well it will make it better but it will remain unbalanced
but come on all games mmo and other thing is balanced ??  are u sure cuz since i remember  all the games i played where unbanlaced at some point some go better others not so much  and im talking about month pay games 

[venon23]

why do people want everything in the game to be the most extreme of all difficulties.

as you said 

" It's time to broaden your perspective, the world isn't just about you."

not everyone wants to play against level 500 enemies with the weakest of frames and the highest level of challenge. this is why sorties were made in the first place. maybe those suggestions you have could be implemented in a sortie condition ( I mean a condition that decreases some abilities' effectiveness, such as those CC abilities ). 

 

sorties are still new, with time the Devs will make them tougher, they said they are working on that in the last devstream I think. they will keep working on sorties and expanding them and surely making more conditions till they reach a level at which a big enough part of the players is happy with the way it is.

 

Maybe they will be challenging enough to please people who want this challenge, but don't ask to decrease the effectiveness of CC abilities and affect everyone else who just plays the game normally without wanting this much of a challenge. I personally enjoy most of the game the way it is now, with it's easy " joke " difficulty. no need for it to become like almost every other game with people rolling around bragging about their skills, their K/D, and how much of pros they are and things like that.

 

Edit : forgot to mention how much work people put into leveling mods and putting forma for those CC frames they love, so I believe a lot of people would be mad if one of these frames they worked hours for got nerfed )

and yea agree with this mate 

[ClinkzEastwood]

while i agree with u in terms of CC yea cc is op in this game but also power creep in some warframes/weapons and thats not a good thing at all

normaly warframes that give CC like gods dont have hp or armor at all EX: nyx vauban   well loki have nice cc but have invisibility so make him a bit op overall

but we have also dmg warframes that are off the board  mag vs corpus  nox vs infested and excal overall   and ofc we have also weapons tonkor and a few others power creep is good CC is bad ?? no power creep is also bad all the game is unbalanced ASF 

so if u want too fix things u need too remake the dmg 3.0 the enemy scaling 2.0 and and balanced all the weapons  warframe abilitys and ehp  ... thats not a big problem the problem is how many players the game have ex: 10 players  and 6 of this players love "X" frame  and "Y" weapon  so DE remake this dmg cc all again and frame x and weapon y becomes completely difrente  what u thing the 6/10 players going too do ??  well easy 3 players love the game and will test new stff other 3 will leave  and DE gets only 7/10 players

they are checking the dmg on weapons and remove serration etc etc will this fix the game well it will make it better but it will remain unbalanced

but come on all games mmo and other thing is balanced ??  are u sure cuz since i remember  all the games i played where unbanlaced at some point some go better others not so much  and im talking about month pay games 

Mirage is the god of cc and she has 95% damage reduction that can be given to all of her nearby allies also.

Anyway there are many bad things in this game. CC and overpowered weapons are just a few of them.

Edited January 12, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[(PSN)Kamranos]

I true ugly head of CC problems are the min/maxers that will forgo 3 other abilities in order to spam one ability until the end of time. I'm a fan of more balanced play style where CC is used tactically and not as a way to "press 4 to win".

 

Nullifiers and Comba units are an effort to control some of the CC at least in higher level corpus games and for the most part, they do an ok job of being an annoyance. 

[(PSN)Kamranos]

why do people want everything in the game to be the most extreme of all difficulties.

as you said 

" It's time to broaden your perspective, the world isn't just about you."

not everyone wants to play against level 500 enemies with the weakest of frames and the highest level of challenge. this is why sorties were made in the first place. maybe those suggestions you have could be implemented in a sortie condition ( I mean a condition that decreases some abilities' effectiveness, such as those CC abilities ). 

 

sorties are still new, with time the Devs will make them tougher, they said they are working on that in the last devstream I think. they will keep working on sorties and expanding them and surely making more conditions till they reach a level at which a big enough part of the players is happy with the way it is.

 

Maybe they will be challenging enough to please people who want this challenge, but don't ask to decrease the effectiveness of CC abilities and affect everyone else who just plays the game normally without wanting this much of a challenge. I personally enjoy most of the game the way it is now, with it's easy " joke " difficulty. no need for it to become like almost every other game with people rolling around bragging about their skills, their K/D, and how much of pros they are and things like that.

 

Edit : forgot to mention how much work people put into leveling mods and putting forma for those CC frames they love, so I believe a lot of people would be mad if one of these frames they worked hours for got nerfed )

Exactly

[KuroNekoXlll]

 

not everyone wants to play against level 500 enemies with the weakest of frames and the highest level of challenge. this is why sorties were made in the first place. maybe those suggestions you have could be implemented in a sortie condition ( I mean a condition that decreases some abilities' effectiveness, such as those CC abilities ). 

 

sorties are still new, with time the Devs will make them tougher, they said they are working on that in the last devstream I think. they will keep working on sorties and expanding them and surely making more conditions till they reach a level at which a big enough part of the players is happy with the way it is.

 

Maybe they will be challenging enough to please people who want this challenge, but don't ask to decrease the effectiveness of CC abilities and affect everyone else who just plays the game normally without wanting this much of a challenge. I personally enjoy most of the game the way it is now, with it's easy " joke " difficulty. no need for it to become like almost every other game with people rolling around bragging about their skills, their K/D, and how much of pros they are and things like that.

 

Edit : forgot to mention how much work people put into leveling mods and putting forma for those CC frames they love, so I believe a lot of people would be mad if one of these frames they worked hours for got nerfed )

 

This is probably the most extreme thing I'm going to say.

I think people who arent seeking a challenge...(1.) They shouldnt be doing sorties, it's suppose to hard (2.) They're wrong. 

There is plenty of content in the game that...isn't challenging without the CC we have right now. Content as far as 40 minutes/20 waves of a T4 mission is perfectly do-able without CC. While there should be unchallenging content...the whole game shouldn't be a coloring book.

That is alot of content to work with...Even if those who seek a challenge and those who don't try to coexist...challenge seekers are completely shafted right now.

[Marthrym]

I think it's a vicious circle. I'll be very clear, there's no challenge in Warframe IMHO. We either faceroll our way through everything the game throws at us, or every enemy is so stupidely overpowered in terms of scaling and mechanics that not using overpowered CC to lockdown the entire map means instant death. If CC is a cause of the broken balance in Warframe, enemy scaling and some mechanics implemented this past year are just as much responsible. Challenge means fair difficulty. Challenge means skill and experience honed with time allow the player to beat the enemy, puzzle, etc. In warframe, past a certain threshold, everything is about numbers, TTK and how to completely neuter the AI because said AI went from posing no threat (thus not requiring the players to hone their skills and experience) to being completely overpowered (causing any skill and experience aquired to be mostly irrelevant).

Same for our weapons, they're just way too powerful for a majority of them. When you one shot a lvl 100 Napalm by shooting the guy in the freaking foot, you know there's a problem, just like you know there's a problem when the AOE damage and range of said Napalm's weapon can instantly kill a player 15m away through hard cover.

 

CC is just one of the issues. Problem is, if you "balance" it and leave the rest untouched, then this game will be utterly broken because it will not go from "brain-dead easy" to "WAOW CHALLENGE!", but simply punish the players with broken and unfair mechanics, with nothing to fall back to to compensate. Skill and experience can't save you from a horde of aimbots with insta-gib level of firepower.

 

Sorties are a horrible, horrible thing as far as I'm concerned. They are the "catalyst", a "Prime" example (mwahaha bad puns) of everything that needs to change in the game : mission pacing (and sometimes structure), arbitrary and quite frankly poorly thought-out gameplay limitations, crosseyed enemy scaling, unfair reward system... all horribly designed and boring as all hell. When [DE]Steve said he was going to create new and actually challenging content, some part of me foolishly believed him. Boy was this part of me wrong... Sorties use all the things that show how bad the game can be, and then some. Not to mention they yet again reinforce the "Vets VS Noobs" mentality that plagues the game.

 

Keep in mind that this is just one opinion from one player, I know very well many will disagree (and have every right to) on at least one thing I mention in this post, probably more. This is just my personal experience of Warframe, I like this game, I still have fun when I play (and don't play I feel the devs try to forcefeed us...) and I don't intend to stop playing even though most of my "veteran" friends have. Kinda lonely though...^^'

Edited January 12, 2016 by Marthrym

[(PSN)Kamranos]

 

 

 

This is probably the most extreme thing I'm going to say.

I think people who arent seeking a challenge...(1.) They shouldnt be doing sorties, it's suppose to hard (2.) They're wrong. 

There is plenty of content in the game that...isn't challenging without the CC we have right now. Content as far as 40 minutes/20 waves of a T4 mission is perfectly do-able without CC. While there should be unchallenging content...the whole game shouldn't be a coloring book.

That is alot of content to work with...Even if those who seek a challenge and those who don't try to coexist...challenge seekers are completely shafted right now.

 

What he is saying is people who want a challenge, play sorties and maybe implement harder enemies with less CC ability allowed, not for people who don't want a challenge to play them. Honestly, someone isn't wrong just because they have a difference of opinion than your version of what fun game play is. Not everyone wants "throw my controller out the window" levels of difficulty throughout the entirety of the game. If I wanted that I'd go back to the nad spamming noobfest of FPS games 

[Autongnosis]

-snip-

Well, i for one mostly agree, except for the sorties being horrible. They are faulty, and should be looked at and reworked with a clear path in mind, but for what is worth, they are some kind of endgame where i can actually use all those weapons and frames i formaed to oblivion without feeling like i'm playing whack-a-mole.

 

What i wanted to add about this is that this is a negative circle.

You can see how bad it is whenever DE nerfs something. Synoid Gammacor anyone? It's still a perfectly viable burst secondary that deals a S#&$ton of damage, but if you ask these forums it looks like it got trampled under an avalanche of nerfs and it's totally unusable...

 

Players, as far as i see, play this game to collect stuff, or to satisfy their power fantasy. I have very rarely met a player who was here for a long time and was all about challenge. I feel that even if DE couldreverse the whole thing and give us an actually challenging game where doing a full rotation is somethingthat needs at least some skills, all they'd end up doing would be losing customers.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Autongnosis

[_Medo_]

 

 

 

This is probably the most extreme thing I'm going to say.

I think people who arent seeking a challenge...(1.) They shouldnt be doing sorties, it's suppose to hard (2.) They're wrong. 

There is plenty of content in the game that...isn't challenging without the CC we have right now. Content as far as 40 minutes/20 waves of a T4 mission is perfectly do-able without CC. While there should be unchallenging content...the whole game shouldn't be a coloring book.

That is alot of content to work with...Even if those who seek a challenge and those who don't try to coexist...challenge seekers are completely shafted right now.

 

even if this content is doable without CC, CC makes it even easier and a bit more fun tbh ( nova's explosions & loki's disarm augment )

also, if you or 1000 others can do it, some others can't. those people shouldn't be left out as well because a portion of the players wants a challenge. if you want a challenge then don't let it affect others who don't.

 

"While there should be unchallenging content...the whole game shouldn't be a coloring book. " 

and the whole game shouldn't be a hell hole. this is why sorties were made, because there's not enough content in the game for people who want a challenge. 

 

"Even if those who seek a challenge and those who don't try to coexist...challenge seekers are completely shafted right now"

I agree, but later on as time passes sorties and maybe other game modes like them will be expanded on greatly so eventually people on both sides of the argument will be happy hopefully. those seeking a challenge will find it and those who don't can play without having to face those challenge.

my point is, it's completely reasonable to want a challenge and it's ok but don't ask for things that will affect others who don't want a challenge as well.